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Kinematics
03-16-2008, 10:12 AM
Hey guys, How do I use maya fluid effects to achieve this look? I've been doing some testing but havent been able to get anything close nor similar too this effect. what would cause the particles to turn like that? and what shading network should I use? Any recommendations?

I find that in order to even get the fluids to look remotely thick, my resolution has to be upped to ridiculous levels. Ill be spending all day working on this and perhaps posting some results hopefully. But so far...not much progress in getting close to those images i provided

http://www.media-design.us/187/wave_01.jpg
http://www.media-design.us/187/wave_03.jpg

ccc1985
03-17-2008, 05:49 AM
Have you tried Ncloth? i looks like a X-ray Shader to me

DJ_
03-17-2008, 08:53 AM
Agreed... that doesn't look like fluids to me. Looks like some distorted geometry with a facing ratio shader on it.

DrYo
03-17-2008, 06:28 PM
Does this need to be animated? If not, just model a NURBS plane with a Facing Ratio node plugged into transparency.

If it does need to be animated, use Soft Bodies or nCloth, again with a Facing Ratio node.

Kinematics
03-18-2008, 02:42 AM
Initially, nCloth was what I thought would be best to achieve this so I did some testing which led to results close too but not exactly the same as the ones in the images.
After studying the second image which I did not attach - I wasn't too sure, given that the results seems extremely smokey and light.

It seems to me that If I were to use nCloth, Id have to create some sort of cloth with thickness and that has been smoothed. The edges seem to not look correct if I use a flat plane to generate these results as the sampler info node just causes the nice fades but does not do those dark areas in the corners. get what I mean

For eg. see the really back area on the upper left/middle corner of this image. where there is a dark black line that flows through the entire shape all the way down. It is hard to get this with a plane and sampler info as I always end up with hard edges.

What do you guys suggest? But I will definetly go back from work later and do further testing. hopefully I can post results of my findings later today.

http://www.media-design.us/187/wave_02.jpg

DrYo
03-18-2008, 03:23 AM
If you modulate the Sampler Info node with a ramp or a Remap Value, then you can adjust the transparency curve. This gives much better results than the default linear relationship between normal angle and transparency. Just take the Facing Ratio output, pipe it through Remap Value, and into the Transparency of the shader.

Jozvex
03-18-2008, 03:35 AM
Also, even with a fairly plain look coming out of the renderer you could really push the look further in compositing if you have After Effects or Fusion, even Photoshop. Some filters and blurs and colour correction etc.

alexx
03-18-2008, 11:14 AM
that look can be done with fluids without a problem - if you want to really handle the dynamics there :)

just use the flame preset from visor and tweak it a bit to get that look. should work

cheers

alex

Kinematics
03-19-2008, 03:08 AM
DrYo - Yes I did actually map the gradient to the sampler info node. The main issue is the very nice curved edges that they somehow achieved. Im looking into using a sampler info with gradient for that transparency look they have going followed by another gradient to just soften the edges. basically using a mix blend node to combine the 2 into the transparency. Will try that out soon as I get back home.

Jozvex - Yes, thank you for the tip. Will definetly put my renders through post to see what better results I can get.

alexx - I assumed that the flame would be similar too or the closest this but it does not seem to work. Any options you can point out or tips, I am not that good with fluid effects but temperature and fuel even required?

Should I be using 2 fluid emitters. so that it looks like water moving in water. Right now no matter what I try. I dont get that consistency (or viscosity I need) Ive I turn up the swirl or turbulence functions, I skip the fire and move on to a smoke look. Unable to find that fine value inbetween this and that.

Which option should I use to keep the smoke "sticking together" so when I swirl and cause turbulence, they more or less move but remain connected?

Kinematics
03-31-2008, 04:51 AM
Hey guys, just a small update on what i've got so far.

after the advice from you guys ive been spending time trying to create that image you've seen in the initial post.

Well I used ncloth with 2 tubes that had turbulence and wind. Initially I thought I was getting close to the results but after looking again a day later I realized how off I was. The issue with sampler info and all that was ....it was too uniform and too obvious that it was 2 tubes. How do I make a samplerinfo to a gradient and another noise to further distort the image? I cant seem to make a gradient with sampler info and combine it with a noise. Cause when I do so. The samplerinfo node just seems to get ignored.

But anyway, heres what I got.
http://www.media-design.us/187/flow_02_test_4.jpg


And here is a test to show you guys what I got after a little post work. Think I did not do a good job but oh well. Keep on trying

http://www.media-design.us/187/flow_02_test_3.jpg

More different variations and tries

http://www.media-design.us/187/flow_02_test_5.jpg

And now im looking into the dielectic material which gave this result, which I am alot more pleased with in the sense that it gives the kinda of color nuances that makes it feel like liquid. But I am still very far off from what I initially set out todo

http://www.media-design.us/187/fluid_test_04.jpg
http://www.media-design.us/187/fluid_test_05.jpg

After attaching a opacity compositing node in Mental ray to the dielectic and providing that with a sampler info. I just got more of an abstract looking result

http://www.media-design.us/187/abstract_liquid.jpg
As you can see, I am still very far away from a shader that emulates the results I am going for. What advice can you guys provide to achieve such results? Isit a plastic like shader that would cause the edges to darken like that? Is it my lighting? I have been using final gather with a white environment color

Thanks guys

Duncan
03-31-2008, 06:58 PM
For dynamics you might try to apply a fluid as a field to either an nCloth with zero or very low stretch/bend/compression resistance or a softBody. If a softBody then make the conserve zero, else if nCloth make the drag and tangentialDrag both 1. This way the surface will exactly follow the fluid flow. Instead of a fluid a turbulence field may suitable depending on your needs.

In terms of rendering you might try making it the complementary color for the surface and rendering on black. Have the color as incandescence on a fully transparent shader and modulate it to be darker when the normal faces the camera( facingRatio, as you've done in your examples ). You could then use glow (possibly shader glow) to soften the edges then reverse the color in post to get the positive.

Duncan

AphelionX
07-17-2008, 02:11 PM
kinematic could u teach me how to make that? ><
sorry im new to maya...

stooch
07-19-2008, 07:08 PM
i would use realflow, generate particle streams, no turbulence to make them smooth and then use the incidence angle on the mesh, i could also see using a blobby surface maya volume. that might give you the desired look.

rBrady
07-19-2008, 09:15 PM
With Maya fluids without crazy resolution try converting to polygons, This will look awful at first, but add "average vertecies" and "smooth polygons" to get a nice smooth surface. I often have to do 3 or more average verts to get it to look like glass. I have used this method to get a really nice glass flame shape. This looks a bit like glass smoke, so this should work out great.

FloydBishop
07-19-2008, 11:14 PM
With Maya fluids without crazy resolution try converting to polygons, This will look awful at first, but add "average vertecies" and "smooth polygons" to get a nice smooth surface. I often have to do 3 or more average verts to get it to look like glass. I have used this method to get a really nice glass flame shape. This looks a bit like glass smoke, so this should work out great.

You just blew my mind. I had never thought to try this.

i-d
07-21-2008, 07:01 PM
Great, that low res fluid idea is simmilar to this great example:

http://elendt.com/mark/public/ink-smaller.avi

only in this case fluid is emitting particles, lots of particles.
That shouldnt be to much of a problem to make in maya
simulation wise, but shading can be a bit of a problem.
I never had much luck with likes of sampler info, ramp shader
or some other incidence shaders in maya, it gets the job
done but always something is lacking. Maybe its me.
But Houdini basic incidence shader somehow just looks right,
and this one probably a little bit customized for particles.
Back to maya: of course it can be done with ncloth very
convincingly and fast but for that extra bling, that low fluid is a
way to go, anyway thats what me thinks.
Gotta try that, how do you onno emmit particles from fluids?

spiralof5
07-21-2008, 10:03 PM
I agree in that I think it can be achieved with Ncloth.

I think your previous attempts actually look much much closer to than your later attempts.

You know you can extrude the output mesh of a cloth to give thickness right? After you cache your cloth object, take the resulting mesh and just extrude. Heck, you can even smooth the result so you no longer have harsh edges. This is also a desent way to shatter things if you have the patience.

dantea
07-22-2008, 12:06 AM
Great, that low res fluid idea is simmilar to this great example:

http://elendt.com/mark/public/ink-smaller.avi


Just to give proper credit for this, the original thread is here:
http://www.sidefx.com/index.php?option=com_forum&Itemid=172&page=viewtopic&t=11822

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