Unofficial Matte Painting Challenge 08!

[RQuack]

Dave, man, can't thank you enough for putting this on. Great pics and will be a lot of fun and great practice. Definitely loving the real world look with artistic flair so am looking forward to next couple of months. :thumbsup: :bounce: :buttrock:

[matty2x4]

Thanks Dave!
I'm looking forward to working on another challenge.
Thanks for all your hard work above and beyond the call of duty!

Its been a bit slow at work so entering this will do one of two things, I will have heaps of time for it, or a bucket load of work will come in and get in the way, its allway the latter.

[Timmay]

Alright Dave!

Question.......these all look like handheld shots, I'm not sure if any are panning or push in shots. Am I right?

[Suirebit]

Great brief! Count me in, let's rumble :D

[RiKToR]

Im in and I will be one of the first done not the last to almost finish this time.

[RiKToR]

So just confirm, we have to maintain the live action of people and such wherever possible? What if it doesnt match the theme? Should we adjust to match? Just curious if I should plan on doing some roto at some point!

[everlite]

Hey guys,

Tim, yeh they were shot by hand, there's a little movement from the beginning of the clip to the end, a sutble shift. But i had no fancy setup, just held my breath and hoped for the best :) The final shot can easily be stabilised in the last stage, i'm hoping people will take their final work and have a go at comping them back into the original clips.

I hope the brief makes sense, so basically pick out three from the six plates, and come up with a connecting theme. This can be anything, the key is to keep it photo realistic. If you like you could maybe extend the plates and do a post camera move back into the original frame. Lots of options...

A few ideas:

A world where technology has advanced a little more quickly, so perhaps adding in futuristic elements.

Another idea might be what would it be like if in the past history took a different path and maybe China colonised most of europe, you could change the plates to reflect a chinese influence. Or any other culture.

Maybe aliens have lived amongst us for the last hundred years, how would this effect the cityscape?

Remember, to repeat this again, you CAN extend beyond the frame area, and do a post move back into the original frame, so you are not constricted by this area alone, however the clip must either begin or end inside the original frame area.

Given what you guys did with the NHM plate last year, i'm really excited to see what you can do with this :)

Thanks again, and lets get this party rocking :thumbsup:

Dave.

[everlite]

Hi Cliff, yes the brief is to adapt the environments to your ideas, but you must hold onto the moving elements, people/cars. Later on i'll provide the full clips so maybe you can roto around the cars etc, what do you have in mind??

Oh, and i hope you finish in good time :)

Dave.

[Artbot]

Good to see the contest finally up, but this is way too complicated and time consuming for me. (I just wanted to paint a little picture!). It's definitely a "real world" exercise, though.

Anyway, good luck to all!

[Matellis]

Sounds great!

Front page this sucka!

[RiKToR]

What I had in mind was Nuclear winter, which may affect traffic and such. But I have thought of another idea since then.

[everlite]

Maybe it could be the aftermath of a nuclear winter? society getting back into gear kind of thing, recovering.

Artbot, come on its not that complicated :) just one little pic, times three :)

[matty2x4]

OK, at the risk of sounding stupid (not that I mind).
If I only want to do the Mate Painting side (I only have Photoshop and am in no way a video compositor).
Can I just select 3 out of the 12 shots and apply a constant theme to these 3 shots.
If so can I then remove the moving elements? Example: if I want to put a big “Dune” sand worm crawling down the motorway I cant keep the cars. If not that’s cool, but does that also mean we cant re-light them, say from day to night? Because that would effect the moving subjects?
I suppose what I am saying is, I just want to do 3 constant theme stills.
Hope that makes sense.

[everlite]

Hi Matty,

Ok, let's see :) One of the requirements will be to keep the cars and people, so you will need to work around these,. Also give thought to how this would work with a moving plate, the final mattes would be recomposed into the video clip, that been the case creating a worm wouldn't work, unless it was animated in which case it would be handled by 3d. Though if it was dead, then this could fall to the role of a matte painter. One thought, it could be cool if you had lots of grub like worms all dead throughout the cityscape, hanging off buildings, though windows. Maybe they were invading the city then suddenly all popped, not sure :) i'm sure you can come up with something.

Regarding comping the mattes back into the plates, i'd like to encourage this where possible but understand if you dont have access to the required programs. Does CS3 handle motion graphics now? it might but i doubt it can do any tracking.

Good luck :)

Dave.

[Bdude619]

I just wanna see if i have grasped the concept. We choose 3 frames and then try to apply the same theme we choose to all three of them. Yes?

[Suirebit]

quite so :)

[RiKToR]

yes CS3 exteneded can handle a light amount of video and if you used that we are talking about some heavy traditional roto work, but it can be done.

[SamsonsReaper]

cool challenge, i´ll be deffinitely balling around some ideas

[Akajork]

damn I really want to join.. this sounds awesome and a great practise. But with all you pro's out there I wont stand a chance! anyways Ill just go ahead and join and learn from this challange!


btw Dave: awesome work man:)!

[divi]

can you tell us what lens you used or do we have to figure that out ourselves?

[everlite]

Hi people,

Some interesting ideas kicking around so far :)

divi:

The clips were taken with a consumer HD camera, http://www.simplydv.co.uk/Reviews/panasonic_hdc-sd5_1.html
I didn't record the settings at the time, somewhere between 30 - 37mm

Akajork: As the old saying goes, its not about winning, its the taking part and maybe even learning a little something along the way :) can't wait to see what you come up with :)

SamsonsReaper:
Great to have you on board mate.

Bdude619:
Yep, thats the idea :)

One important aspect of this challenge will be the emphasis on photorealistic intergration. I encourage you to be creative and original but still remember that this needs to be an invisible matte and seamlessly intergrated into the original plate. In the end this will be one of the key criterias when been judged.

[Bdude619]

Hey guys,

i am having trouble posting the pics for my post. I know i am noobsauce, but could someone point me in the right direction as far as posting the pics? Is it like drag n drop or is there something else to it?

[eyecon]

Great Challenge! I will try to join and maybe learn a few more things! This will be cool! :D Goodluck to everyone!

[everlite]

Hey guys, a few points to raise ..



1) i want to dispel this myth about "copying" themes. In the end it will come down to believability, plate integration and the ability to create an invisible matte that sits seamlessly over the original plate. In fact this will be key over the theme itself. So if everyone wanted to do a post war crumbling theme then feel free to go for it. I really believe the end result will be very unique for everyone.

What im seeing so far is looking cool, and quite surprising, thanks :)

As a tip, whatever you come up with in the end, while thinking about concepts please keep that balance in the back of your mind; needs to be an interesting theme while still been invisible and intergrated to a photorealistic level. This doesn't mean you have to restrict yourself to the real world, you can still have outlandish, completely fictional elements, UFOs, giant spores or whatever, just make sure they look like there actually in the scene.

2) No moving elements unless you want to add them in a post composition, ie birds would move, so they would be 3d and not in the matte painting. So if you want moving objects then they GOTTA be moving in the end :) and personally i would like to see a few added elements that are moving in the end.

3) IMPORTANT, if you feel there's something you would like to add to your project, or something that you would like to do that you don't know how to or dont fully understand, then PLEASE ask! if i can show you how or direct you to a tutorial or something i'll do my best.

4) EVEN MORE IMPORTANT! - Have fun and push yourself to learn something new ;)

Best,
Dave.

[everlite]

Brendt:


Hey guys,

i am having trouble posting the pics for my post. I know i am noobsauce, but could someone point me in the right direction as far as posting the pics? Is it like drag n drop or is there something else to it?


Personally i always link through my personal server that i host my website through. I know you can use sites that host graphics, but not sure where and which are best.

Anyone know of any options? Is flickr good for this, also one called photobucket maybe?

Dave.

[Bdude619]

I am not sure i misssed this part or not... are we limited to integrating our theme to stationaty elements of these images? Or are we able, for example, give the cars a destroyed state?

Oh and i added my images to imageshack and it worked. thanks dave for the advice on uploading them to external sites.

[Suirebit]

you can't destroy the cars. They are the actors of this challenge if you want....and you just change the scene for them ;)

[Matellis]

Hey David , I was wondering if it is possible to get those video plates any time sooner? The reason I ask is that it would be very good to see what kind of motion is in the plate, be it from the cars , people walking and the handheld motion. It would be great if we knew what we were up against and create an action plan early on how to create the best concepts with out having to change the idea up a bit later in the process because we didnt realise there was motion in some areas.

Cheers!

[nickmarshallvfx]

Yea i agree with Matt, it would be very nice to see exactly what movement there is in the plates, and also, if i get the video files early, i can use these completed shots for one of my uni compositing assignments too, so that would kill 2 birds with one stone :)

Nick

[MarkyG]

Awesome, thanks for setting this up Dave. Looking forward to sinking me teeth in!

markg

[mordecaidesign]

For som reason my mac isn't liking the rar files. I even tried EZ 7z, can someone rezip the files and send them to me or just put the jpg's on their server? would be MUCH appreciated.

-Matt

[everlite]

For som reason my mac isn't liking the rar files. I even tried EZ 7z, can someone rezip the files and send them to me or just put the jpg's on their server? would be MUCH appreciated.



Type Mac winrar into google, a few come up that should do the job.

Hey David , I was wondering if it is possible to get those video plates any time sooner? The reason I ask is that it would be very good to see what kind of motion is in the plate, be it from the cars , people walking and the handheld motion. It would be great if we knew what we were up against and create an action plan early on how to create the best concepts with out having to change the idea up a bit later in the process because we didnt realise there was motion in some areas.

I'll see what i can do. The camera's in a pretty stationary position, be in hand held, so a little shake. you can pretty much predict which parts are occluded by cars and people. They all cross the same path pretty much.

Just need to find somewhere to host the files, so if you have any ideas :)

[Timmay]

How big are the files?

I can host on my site.....

[everlite]

give me a few days and i'll have them up.

Dave.

[kbarts]

So if i understand right: need three concept and three final shot? Or just one final shot?

I do not have any compositing software and skill. Can I enter in this challenge if I only paint a single shot?

[everlite]

The requirements are as follow:

Choose three from the six plates provided. Using the brief as a guide to what is required produce three matte paintings with a given theme. So to clarify, you will need to provide three mattes :)

[kbarts]

Thanks. Can be a beginer section (who just can make single mattes) and a pro setion (moving shots) for final entries? Or if I paint three matte can I post it to the final entries?
So what i want to know: Only shot can be the final matte entry?

[everlite]

I have provided 6 plates (above). Your job is to select three of these plates and create matte paintings based on these three. This is all you will need to do. However given a knowledge and understanding of compositing is a growing need for matte artists, i'm encouraging people to composite the final mattes back into the original plates, this isn't necessary but welcome from those who wish to do so.

Dave.

[kbarts]

Thanks Dave! Now it is clear for me:) I am in this challenege.

[SpetsK]

Thanks Dave, it IS great theme and how you built the challenge! I like that it has a real matte painting job taste. So beginners like me could get the first feeling how it is to be a real matte painter. Now I hope I have time to join!

[divi]

one last question :D are the final animated shots supposed to be in hd or d-v? being a concern render-time wise ^^

[Rockhoppermedia]

Always present vfx work as HD, DV is notorious for spoiling greenscreen and compositing shots.

It is easier for the client to downgrade footage than upgrade poor resolution footage. DV has its place in the ENG type of environment, for effects work use the highest quality materials.

Cheers

Rich

[divi]

well aware of that, but several animated schools of fish take their time anyway and in high-res they need to be rendered in way better quality to look convincing. just figuring out how to plan my time for that since i sadly can't devote all of my time to this challenge.

still hoping for d-v, but meh xD

[everlite]

Hi guys,

I've uploaded the full clips, 1920x1080HD jpeg sequence:

http://www.capturefx.co.uk/web/plate_1.rar (100mb)

http://www.capturefx.co.uk/web/plate_2.rar (210mb)

http://www.capturefx.co.uk/web/plate_3.rar (85.4mb)

http://www.capturefx.co.uk/web/plate_4.rar (136.mb)

http://www.capturefx.co.uk/web/plate_5.rar (91mb)

http://www.capturefx.co.uk/web/plate_6.rar (120mb)

I'd be very grateful is someone could create a mirror for these, there currently sharing the server as my website :)

Dave.

[SamsonsReaper]

you can upload to rapidshare

[Chrike]

hi there!
do we have to keep the image size & aspect ratio? or can we extend/change? :)

[everlite]

You can extend out side the plate area and add a post camera move, however the final size needs to be HD to fit back into the original plate.

[Rockhoppermedia]

Right, time to stick my hands in the air through sheer frustation. I have use of a after effects laptop from work how do i import the files into after effects?

I have got the project folder in fine and it keeps producing a layer for each image and then I run the CTI along. There is movement but with horizontal lines on anything there is moving.

Really stuck BTW have a nice Easter

Rich

[everlite]

have a look through these, http://www.videocopilot.net/basic/

and the rest:

http://www.videocopilot.net/tutorials.html (scroll down)

Dont forget to tick the sequence box when importing.

I'm about to hit the sack, if no luck by tomorrow i'll explain further. :)

Dave.

[Rockhoppermedia]

Cheers mate, sleep is for wimps! LOL

Yep been playing today with tracking my next challenge is rotoscoping. Just want to confirm that the image must start on the first frame (do what you want pan,dolly,push,pull) but finish on the last frame. Is that correct?

Also been a bit rude thank you for uploading the movie files, it has put a new twist and excitement into the project.

Rich

[Suirebit]

I think you can do pan/scroll etc...as long as it ends with the last frame from the vid...

[everlite]

Hey guys,

Some interesting ideas popping through, coming along nice so far :)

I want to raise one point, im glad to see everyone's pushing their skills to a new level and learning about the different areas of compositing but remember this is a matte painting challenge and not a compositing contest, i've including the full sequence purely to allow people the opportunity to integrate the matte back into the shot itself should they wish, however this isn't necessary and will not be taken into account during the judging stage, the final entries will be judged purely on the entrants ability to create an interesting theme with a photo realistic matte painting that sits invisible into the original plate.

That said please continue tinkering with the full clip if you wish i just want to reasure those not working on the full sequence that you have an equal chance as everyone else :)

Have fun :)

Dave.

[everlite]

Richard:
The final requirements are the three plates originally provided. What you do with the video itself is completely your choice :) i'd recommend maybe taking around 5 seconds from each shot, a nice time, not to long or too short, but again completely up to you.

:)

[Matellis]

I finished stabilizing the 3 shots that I will be using. But I had to trim the size because I was getting black boarder all over the place. So is it alright if the videos are smaller then the original plate?

[everlite]

Hey matt, well you have few options, you can enlarge the plate slightly to hide the background. OOORRRR being a matte painter, you could extend the edge with a little paint, haha ;)

Please note, i cant stress enough, the compositing will not be considered in the judging stage, this option is only included for personal development. Better to have than not to have :)

Best,
Dave.

[halvarado]

Arg! I just found this contest. I have been spending so much time int he workshop classrooms I have been ignoring the other forums....

ANyway so to enter we just need to have a concept by the 28th? OR just start an intent to participate thread?

Either way i am in I am just trying to see how fast I need to put together a concept.

[everlite]

Hey Holli, welcome to the party :)

Well Concepts by the 28th would be good. Just something simple that shows your general direction and ideas.

Hope you can get up to speed :)

Dave.

[eyecon]

Hi everyone.... This is an amazing challenge!

Everlite... I plan to join but then I don't have time to post concepts for now... it might come in late in the month of april or if things go well somewhere early april. Can you still consider me? Pleeeeeeaaaaaseeeeeeeee pretttty pleaaaaaaasssseeeee..... :D

Thanks in advance...

as a teaser my concept will be focused on a city buried or half buried after a huge earthquake. The whole palce would look half fauna and half tech with hint of future thinnngeeeessssss... :D
I hope I could pull this off...

BTW.... where can I download the the frames?

[everlite]

Eric, i think the official word is, GRRRRR :)

I'll give you a few days to draw really rough and quick paint overs, im sure you can rustle up even the most basics of sketches in a few days, i have confidence in you :)

The files are posted at the beginning of this thread ... i hope, unless someone's run away with em. There's also the video clips too. Have a read throughout this thread for all the details.

Dave.

[Chrike]

uh extension; that´s always music to my ears :D
is this for everybody then? and how many days?
Cause I was wondering: whatever is as concepts in our individual threads at the end of the deadline; do we absolutely have to stick to that then (let´s say in terms of color palette, and content details), or can we still modify afterwards?

cheers,
chris

[everlite]

The concept deadline was a target date, to get everyone to the same point at the same time, then everyone has something to work with .. well that was the idea. feel free to change as you wish, though i would ask that your final piece be similar to the concepts produced.

Dave

[Chrike]

alrighty, thanks man!

[xantirodriguez]

yeah!will work too!!

[eyecon]

everlite: I'm having problems with the moving crane... it's extremelly hard to create a roto for it... IS it possible to just delete it and cover it up or replace it later? Thnx Dude! :bounce:

[Rockhoppermedia]

If you are using after effects, Andrew Kramer has recently done a work around for this issue check out Video Copilot and his latest tutorial. The solution is so simple you will laugh.

Regards

Rich

[RQuack]

Rich- I could kiss ya. And Andrew. :buttrock:

[Rockhoppermedia]

Southern Belle Accent "Oh you do make blush Mr Quackenbush !" :blush:

[eyecon]

Hi Guys, Is there any chance this challenge will be extended, even until May 15 only? I'm totally swamped with work and I can't do anything about it! Even on weekends I work! :cry:

[mordecaidesign]

Just wondering because I didn't see anything about it in the challenge description,

Are we supposed to deliver 3 final matte paintings? or just 1? cuz I've been working on three but I've got one that I really really like. :bounce:

[everlite]

Hey guys,

Three entries to be submitted per person.

Regarding extension of dates, i'm up for suggestions if there's a general wish to push back?

Dave.

[mordecaidesign]

I would certainly benefit from this but I'm personally against it. Why? Because it's not very realistic (at least in my experience as a web designer working with clients). If this is actually something that happens in VFX often then let's do an extension.

[nickmarshallvfx]

I was gonna opt out personally because i think i will only have time to finish one at the most by the deadline because of pressures from my uni work, but if there is a general wish to extend the deadline then ill be able to work on these more soon. I finish uni for the year on May 15th, so after that ill be able to work solid on this. Ill still try and get one finished no matter whether the deadline changes or not, coz its a fun challenge :)

Nick

[Rockhoppermedia]

Hi I would like to have an extension as well I have been working the last four weekends and nights. I am absolutely shattered. I would not normally ask but with the job move and changing the infrastructure at work I am so behind

Cheers Dave

PS This is for the guardian angel who recommended me to a national TV company for a job designing motion graphics. Thank you very much. unfortunately I cannot take the job but I really respect what you did for me. That was absolute shock and kindness.

Rich :applause:

[mordecaidesign]

Oh Ok. I vote for an extension. I've been working on a freelance client's site till 2:00 in the morning every night for almost 2 weeks straight.

Here's the blog post about it:

http://mattejourney.blogspot.com/2008/04/sleep-deprevation-training.html

[RQuack]

Agree with some of whats been said. I could always use more time and could detail until the cows come home, but it is a deadline and I've been pushing for it. But if we can get more people in then we could. :shrug:

[nickmarshallvfx]

Yea if there are people that have been working towards this deadline really hard then i think its probably unfair to extend it at this stage, which is why i said 'if the general consensus is to extend' in my earlier post. I wouldnt want to take away from someone elses hard work...

Ive been in that situation here at uni where ive worked my arse off and other people have just got extensions and got better grades, so i certainly wouldnt want to do that to someone else coz it feels shitty.


Nick

[Rockhoppermedia]

OK, I will submit my entry after the deadline, I hereby forfeit my right to be part of the competition. I will still however work on it and display it here.


in the real world this would be my primary vocation and would have done it a lot sooner. However my real world job has got in the way. Bit upset but thats life.

Rich:cry:

[eyecon]

Oh Darn.... :cry:

I really do wish for an extension... But I do understand the it feels for those who toiled towards the deadline, I too experienced where a delayed submission got the top prize while mine got second.

Doing this in the real world time is great too, the only downside is WE are already working in the real world (like me) where deadlines (real ones) are just around the corner... and the only time we got left is a measlly 4-5 hours of sleep, mostlly done during carpools or in the train....

Thats where the dillema comes in, we toil and work everday and when a great challenge comes, we don't even have time for it.

As much as I would like, I would want to have the time extended, but if someones cries unfair then I have to step aside. Besides I'm only about 25% on my first matte, I might as well just post the ones that I might finish here later but certainlly not on the deadline.

One last cry: is it possible perhaps that we can have a One matte only award at the very least? For the ones that were not able to finish all three?

[nickmarshallvfx]

the only time we got left is a measlly 4-5 hours of sleep, mostlly done during carpools or in the train....

Thats where the dillema comes in, we toil and work everday and when a great challenge comes, we don't even have time for it.

Im right there with you on that one...

[Chrike]

I´d definitley appreciate an extension as well. totally swamped lately.
However, I´m with space-sprayer.
In case someone worked really hard to get this done on time and feels an extension would be unfair or something then I´d totally understand that!

Cheers,
Chris

[mordecaidesign]

Ha! I'm beginning to think that we're all in the same boat. There might be someone who hasn't chimed in because they are working hard on this and havn't checked this thread but I think that everyone else can agree that we've worked every last free second on this and can't wait to deliver results. I've learned a few lessons from it. One of which being, I HAVE TOO MANY DAMNED BANYON TREE PHOTOS. All which I've taken of course but man...I need to take some more reference of other trees besides stuff with gnarly roots.

[RQuack]

Well, I mean like I said, I've been working for the deadline since I've had time off recently, but there's at least 5 people in this thread alone, and if we're able get some work in, even in a week or two, then it would be worth it. :thumbsup:

[RQuack]

So what did we decide? Tomorrow's the 2nd and all. :D

[everlite]

Wow, time flys :) to be honest i think this challenge is dead in the water, it just didn't have the response equal to previous challenges, not sure maybe it was too complicated, there was many misunderstandings and confusion i think, but i know better now for the future. I appreciate and thank those that did take part, but unfortunately there just wasn't enough.

I dont know guys, hey i tried my best getting it all together and all, it seemed a good concept for a challenge, not sure, so any idea why this had far less response? im open to thoughts :)

So yeh, i'll leave it in the hands of you guys, if you wish to continue and extend the date then make suggestions on what would be a good timeframe, i could leave it a few more weeks, see if the response picks up again. To be honest i also think this a bad time of the year for contests, maybe July/August is a good time, lots of holidays etc ..

Thoughts people ??? :)

Best,
Dave.

[RQuack]

I guess people were just busy, flaked out, didn't care enough etc...could be anything I guess. One reason I had time to work on it was because I cleared up free time until I take classes next month. So there could be any number of reasons why there aren't hardly any entries. It's tough for me to get a hold of any plates at all and I know lots of people would love them too, especially the frigging awesome footage we got so not sure why lots of people didn't jump at it.

I just don't want to compete against myself. :p


If we decide to kill this then I'll post what I finished real soon.

[nickmarshallvfx]

Yea i think the fact that this brief was replicating a real world brief, but i think unfortunately a lot of people may have found that a bit intimidating. I think this challenge was perfect for someone like me and others who are just looking to take their work to a standard that is presentable at a professional level, i.e. demoreel work.
Its just unfortunate that more people are not in that kind of position really. And its unfortunate that the people who are seem to all be tied up at the moment. Im certainly going to finish at least one of these shots over the next couple of weeks so ill post my results here when i do.

I gotta say, I hope the challenges will still continue after this, coz although this one had a poor turnout and never really kicked into gear i still always look forward to them being announced so that i can try and participate. So Dave, keep em coming :thumbsup:

If there are any finished pieces id really like to see them, so everyone should post them up if they did finish.

Nick

[mordecaidesign]

Please Dave, keep em coming! I'm still trying to work on one of mine.

[eyecon]

Hi guys... its a shame if this challenge will be stopped. After the premise has been quite good. Challenging yes but not impossible. I guess what we really need is a little bit more time, especially some of us (inlcuding myself) has been quite new to compositing. It even came to a point that two seconds of rotoscoping took two hours!

I do hope this continues, prize or no prize.... :D

One thing's for sure, I will pass at least one entry that will be composited. I won't let this go even if it takes me 'till december...

[Rockhoppermedia]

DONT GIVE UP!

I am still on board just going to be real late. My workload has doubled due to commitments. However I am still working on it. I have my sketch pad next to my phone and filling it up with concepts as we speak. I hope that others still carry on as Dave has worked hard on this.

I have to supply late due to factors outside my control. But I suspect that some did not take part because the footage was not a sexy hollywood type of film. I say get real, matte painting is converting the normal into the abnormal. Those who have done concepts and work on this are to be congratulated as each person has bought something new to the table. There efforts so far have been good.

I would like to see a finished product from everybody. Just coz I cannot compete does not mean that others should not enter.

Being a leader/manager/director I will have to put my hat on and now asking you all to pull your socks up. Dave worked hard for you please reciprocate and take part.

So keep up with it please

Rich

[knight1001]

Hey guys,

Shame to see this challenge seems to have died off, I personaly couldn't even think of keeping on with it as I had loads of work come in.

Look forward to seeing all of everyones future work on this forum, its a great one with some v.talented peeps.

Cheers