Lighting : Using HDRI in Max?

[Leo_79]

hi robmaxwell, the only way is using plugins, you can use Brazil or FR, but if you are using max 5 FR is not a good idea!

[Duffman]

Yes you can, but first you'll need a plugin to be able to load HDR images into Max. You can get that plugin at here: http://www.splutterfish.com/sf/sf_gen_page.php3?page=plugins

Once you have that installed, you can light scenes with HDR images using Max's skylight (only in R5+). If you're using anything earlier than Max 5, you'll need Brazil, Vray, finalRender, or any other renderer that can handle HDRI.

[robmaxwell]

How does the hdri image work with the skylight and light tracer?

I would think all you would need to do is load the hdri image into the background environment and turn on advanced lighting (radiosity or light tracer) and let the rendering begin.

[neversong]

yeah, right.

you need to use the HDRI image as spherical environment, and instance it to the sky light.

I tried this with the default max sky light and it works although the result was not as good as brazil.

or, I think what you can do is using some script..
I don't remember the name but...there's a script which generates lights from an HDRI image.
(anybody who knows about this, is this scipt only to generate the specular? or diffuse?)

[MiGa]

You could also use HDRShop to convert the hdri to a floating point tif. Then load the tif as a map in the skylight. Change the mapping type to Spherical Env..
Here is a video tutorial about that (sorry, only in german):

http://cgworld.de/thread.php?threadid=2333&sid=

miga

[gaggle]

Uh.. yeah, what MiGa says. We gotta stop this "you need plugins to do HDRI for MAX5" stuff :)
If you use the search-functions on these boards you'll find that this topic has been raised before. I remember a detailed description was once given on how to use HDRI imagery in MAX5, given in a simple step-by-step tutorial form.

What neversong says is right though, the skylight's bitmap channel is the secret to the whole thing. Some also say it can be an advantage crank up the blur in the bitmap-node that goes into the skylight.

From there on out it should be a matter of messing with the Advanced Lighting rollout, put in a few bounces, tweak the sampling, etc. etc. It's my experience that Brazil produces.. cleaner more precise results, but it seems a lot slower as well. The scene I have open right now I have the lighttracer turned on for the draft settings, it's so neat :)

[Alexander]

here is the link about the plugins for HDRSHOP, which will convert hdri informations into lights :

http://www.ict.usc.edu/~jcohen/lightgen/lightgen.html

Alexander

[Nosalis]

Originally posted by Leo_79
hi robmaxwell, the only way is using plugins, you can use Brazil or FR, but if you are using max 5 FR is not a good idea!

Why do you think that finalRender is not a good idea ? I`m using it without big problems (of course, there are some small ones), and I think that result is good. I thint that fR is much more faster than Brazil or Light Tracer.

[Dave Black]

Guys, please.

This question has been asked about 20 time in the last 3 months.

Please use the search feature of this board to find detailed instructions on this subject.

And YES, for the tenth time, max 5 CAN do HDRI, and with ease. No plugins, no scripts, it's native.

-3DZ

:D

[robmaxwell]

I apologize for the redundant thread. I'll try not to let it happen again.

Although there still seems to be quite a few people out there willing to continue talking about it.:shrug:

[Leo_79]

Hi guy i´m still not sure if Max5 accepts HDRI, because if you need a second program to convert hdri in tif, you're not loading hdri images but tif images in max. But this doesn´t matter, because you will get very similar results.

And Nosalis: I said that because what i hear that the FR was build to max 4, although max5 accepts older plugins, the FR-S0 has some problems with the new render. But i'm not sure, it's what i hear. And sorry if i said somethig wrong, i'm don't have much experience in CG, and sorry my english.

[marcusss]

well, may I suggest, please, that you check your facts before telling others some rumors you've heard. It would be great is everybody who post here knew what they were talking about.

As for fRS0, v 1.6 is a new recompile that is perfectly compatible with max5.

Mark'huss

---------
When all else fails, try thinking

[Dave Black]

Ok, first off, HDRI is not just a file format. It's a methodology.

HDRI = High Dynamic Range Image

A floating point .tiff file is, in effect, the same as an .hdr

HDRI, The process of using real-world lighting probes to simulate digital lighting within a 3D space, IS available in Max 5.

Yes, Max does not natively support the .hdr image file format, BUT, it does support floating point .tif files.

If one wishes to use canned .hdr files, than yes, this will cause a problem. If one wishes to make thier own, then HDRI Shop is a must-have tool anyway, and exporting to a floating point .tif is really only a few mouse clicks.

So, my original statement is factually consistant. Max does support HDRI.

-3DZ

:D

[Edit: Changed "Rate" to "Range" do to Visualboo's ever-so-subtle correction...Thanks, man, I have no idea why I put "Rate" in there...We all know it's range...must have been exporting video at the time...hehe]

[Ls3D]

Man, people are sure getting pissy on this fourm...

If I see some noob that has obviously not RTFM, or a 'repeat thread', I just move on or get back to work. Seems to me if other's did the same the fourm would be a kinder gentler place.

And should one feel inclined to set folks straight, why not come from a positive place rather than see this as a chance to bitch out some new member?

The quality of work and collective knowledge availible here is just amazing & so I hope we can all remember that everyone of us determines the culture of the fourm with our words, so please choose them carefully.

Kind regards,

-Shea

www.Ls3D.com

:cool:

[gaggle]

Not caring enough to answer doesn't sound too hot to me either though :).

I think at this point it's safe to say that the last couple of replies has not been directly aimed at the original question, as much as replies to the.. well.. replies.

Mmyes..

My point is, 3DZ is correct in what he's stated, and a couple of replies to that was needed to make all the information available so everyone was on the same level. That doesn't mean people are bashing the original poster I think.

Anyway, the first answers to the original question were wrong, and I think there must be a couple of us here on the board that dislikes letting incorrect information be spread. Answers may not always come as fluffy bunnies and pillowtalk, but at least the original questions gets answered one way or another. Usually even without making people cry.. too much.

I'm for setting people on fire for not using the search-feature first though, so I don't personally mind a little harshness on RTFM-type questions :).

[Nosalis]

Originally posted by gaggle
Not caring enough to answer doesn't sound too hot to me either though :).

I think at this point it's safe to say that the last couple of replies has not been directly aimed at the original question, as much as replies to the.. well.. replies.

Mmyes..

My point is, 3DZ is correct in what he's stated, and a couple of replies to that was needed to make all the information available so everyone was on the same level. That doesn't mean people are bashing the original poster I think.

Anyway, the first answers to the original question were wrong, and I think there must be a couple of us here on the board that dislikes letting incorrect information be spread. Answers may not always come as fluffy bunnies and pillowtalk, but at least the original questions gets answered one way or another. Usually even without making people cry.. too much.

I'm for setting people on fire for not using the search-feature first though, so I don't personally mind a little harshness on RTFM-type questions :).

I haven`t got a meaning, what did you mean. Have you answered the topic? :)))

In my oppinion, in STANDART version of MAX5 with no plugins, you CAN NOT USE HDRi, becouse MAX doesn`t know HDRi fotmat.

If I`m wong, tell me somebody, how can I set up HDRI in standart max.

[gaggle]

Yeah I didn't exactly help on keeping this thread on-topic eheh, sowwiie :)

A completly plugin-free MAX5 can do HDRI based lighting. I don't know if that changes your opinions on it, but fact remains that it supports HDRI images just fine.

Some people, understandably I think, thinks that HDRI images only comes in the form of .hdr files. That's what Brazil and fR has taught us. But not true, as described by 3D Zealot, HDRI has to do with the range of available colurs, if you will, not if the file ends on .hdr.

MAX has native support for floating-point TIFF images, and we're not talking about using those being almost as good as .hdr files or anything, no it's the exact same thing. Just different fileformats.

What you do is go download HDRShop (http://www.debevec.org/HDRShop/), open up any available .hdr file, then Save As, then hit the Floating Point TIFF button. That simple really.

[Nosalis]

That sounds interesting.

I don`t know HDRi Shop, .. becouse I haven`t got money to purchase it. IMHO HDRi means High Dynamic Range Image, and the file contains informations about various exposure rates. Don`t know if that can be done with Color Range.

I haven`t used any floating-point TIFF becouse I haven`t got any. Maybe it is very similar. Lighting a scene with HRDi means that you`ll get illuminated scene, with different colours, with soft shadows, and you can set more or less light with seting different Exposures Numbers (1,2,0,-1 e.g.)

If you can get the same result with floating point TIFF and MAX5 can use it natively, than you are right, that MAX5 can use HIGH dynamic range images.

When you are using light tracer, which is MAX5 standart, you can also set a bitmap as a sky light, you can also change its brightness with setting multiplier, .. but this the same as High Dynamic Range image.

Good page about HDRi is
http://www.debevec.org

[gaggle]

You're absolutely right about HDRI images and them being of higher range, not "more colours". That's the reason I wrote the "if you will" part in the "more colours" paragraph, but I shouldn't've written it in the first place. Anyways, yes, more range.

HDRIShop is.. free? I thought maybe you'd want to know that.. ;).

And yeah, to get HDRI going in native MAX, you place the .tiff image into the Skylight light, and use the lighttracer. Couldn't be easier once you figure it all out. Some suggest you blur the skylight-bitmap slightly to get things more out of focus. It can make for some smoother gi-lighting.

[robmaxwell]

That last post from gaggle was the most informative post in this whole thread. If that had came first, the thread could have quitely died without the need for an uproar.:hmm:

Anyway, like a said, with a topic as hot as hdri lighting, I am surprised that there are not even more posts on the subject. Perhaps a sticky on the correct methodology would help.

I did do a search on hdr lighting in Max in the forum, and the results I read were not a clear cut answer, rather little tidbits here and there on the subject, and not very clear as a whole. So I am glad that I did post a "redundant" thread, and hopefully someone got something out of it, I know I did.

And after all, doesn't that make a thread worthwhile if one person gains something from it? That is why we all pot here isn't it? To learn new techniques and improve ourselves while helping others?

[robmaxwell]

correction,

That is why we all post here, and not "pot here".

Oooops!:blush:

[Dave Black]

Ok, first off, I'm sorry if my original post was construed as "pissy" by some members.

I'm not trying to be a jerk, and I have a great love for this community, which I think I have demonstrated by now.

If you read what I said in my second post, you'l see that I've answered the question. If you'd like a methodology, here it is:

First off, you can download HDRI Shop here:

http://www.debevec.org/HDRShop/

It is indeed free for general use, and does'nt even have to be installed.

The following is copied verbatum from another thread:

"if you haven't done so already, load a hdr lightprobe image into hdrshop (normally a photo of a gazing ball - you can grab samples from paul debevec's site www.debevec.org <http://www.debevec.org>) and convert to longitudinal so it can be wrapped around a sphere (for example). Save as a floating point tiff .

In max, load the tiff into the materials editor and set it's mapping to Environ - Spherical Environment. Copy the tiff to another slot and set the copy's blur offset to 0.1 to blur it slightly.

Create a new skylight (new light in 3ds max 5) and drag the copied & blurred tiff to the skylight's map slot. Open the render > environment panel and copy the original tiff to the environment's background map slot.

In advanced lighting, enable light tracer. Add a bounce if required (this will increase render times a fair bit)

And that's about it. As the background, lighting and any raytraced reflections within the scene are utilising a high dynamic range image, the environment's exposure settings can be tweaked accordingly and this will correctly amend the resulting render. One tip though, if you're using this for an animation, use logarithmic exposure as the other types are automatic and may cause flickering if an object passes in front of a light source as the exposure is automatically calculated on a per-frame basis. But if this is what you want, then go for glory"


So, combined with my second post, this should solve the entire question of the thread.

I hope it's helped, and I again apologize for upsetting anyone. This question has been asked, and answered a few times, and I'd still like to see a bit of searching before posting, but hey, who really cares.

-3DZ

:D

[robmaxwell]

Thank you so much. This really puts the icing on the cake. That last post by 3D Zealot should be placed as a sticky in the tutorials section or something, as I am sure there are many more who would like to know how to do this. A pretty simple procedure really, but it is only simple if you know how to do it. I am used to Lightwave, and it is about 1/3 as many steps, hence my initial confusion.

I must agree though, I should have spent a bit more time reading through the posts before starting a new thread. Thanks again 3D Zealot for your time and posts.:applause:

Very informative.

[Dave Black]

Glad to be of service.

Best of luck.

-3DZ

:D

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