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dborruso
03-06-2008, 04:43 AM
Hello

There is something weird happening when I render my frog as you can see in these pics. I thought maybe some bones were rendering as objects, but what are those two big vertical poles? very weird. Anybody know what this might be?

peksi
03-06-2008, 07:43 AM
Those are most likely procedurals used for IK controllers. Try setting rendering for them off.

dborruso
03-06-2008, 01:15 PM
Thanks for pointing me in the right direction peksi. There was a render group for controllers. I turned the rendering off. I am very new with messiah, I just got it. So I am trying to figure all this out.

Thanks.

Bugpoo
03-07-2008, 01:35 AM
I thought he was in a full body cast!

Man, I hadn't seen Ulven's autorigger in action until watching his video today. Sweet stuff! I upgraded messiah last night...gotta get the autorigger :-)

That frog looks like a funny guy...

dborruso
03-07-2008, 02:45 PM
hehehe froggy in full body cast. Maybe a scuffle with a chef ;)

I am really liking the autorigger.

I am having trouble with my weighting though. I cant get the hip deform right. This is tricky stuff.

Here is a pic of the frog without body cast.

catizone
03-07-2008, 03:17 PM
It may be how the model is made...how the polys fit the appropriate contours so it bends the way you want.

Also remember where the actual pivot point for the hip sockets are...and then you may need some additional work on holding the stomach. Or you may want/need a morph target to help in extreme situations. Just a couple of thoughts....

Best,
Rick

dborruso
03-07-2008, 03:38 PM
Thanks Rick

Here is a video of how the hip is deforming with the thigh:

http://www.3dfrog.com/wips/forums/messiahhip.mov (http://www.3dfrog.com/wips/forums/messiahhip.mov)

I have been trying for hours and hours on this. Tried metaeffectors and muscle bones mostly. But cant get any good results. I don't know what a morph target is yet, I'll find out.

Any tips appreciated.

Thanks :)

Ulven
03-07-2008, 03:51 PM
Remember you can add your own hold bones and MetaEffectors (http://www.projectmessiah.com/x4/vids/Meta_Effectors.wmv).
Check your hip positioning, this is the most common problem with hip weighting,
The autorigger has some twist bones in some places so make sure you're weighting them too when you're doing the weighting.

A few little tips about weighting:

-Go into setup, click the new item dropdown and change to "select items", filter skeleton, =, and then hit the square button to select all bones. Right click one of them in the item list to add to a temp group. This way you get all your bones in a group so it's easier to find the items that need to be weighted.

- Multiple bones can share the same MetaEffector, often you can have a single MetaEffector named for instance Character_Arms_Weight, and assign all your arm bones to that MetaEffector, both left and right, because they're far enough away from eachother not to conflict.

- Once you start weighting, it's best to keep weighting, if all the bones but one have a weight assigned, that one bone will have a bad effect on the weighting.

- Remember that you can multiselect bones and assign all of them to a weight by shift+ or ctrl+ clicking in the list and changing their weight.

- On a typical biped, if modelled with enough spacing for the fingers and legs, you can often get away with just these weights: Body, Arms, Head, (Maybe Left/Right leg)

Edit: I was typing this before I saw your video. Having seen it: your hip position is off, it should be higher, and there's a bone above the hip that's doing something to it as well.

lanosrep1
03-07-2008, 05:16 PM
Cute Character!

I Realize it's way to late for this, but in the future.. try using far fewer poly's to model your characters.. I would strongly suggest getting Taron's Organic Modeling DVD.. (No.. i gain nothing from this plug..lol) Here:

http://www.thegnomonworkshop.com/dvds/tba01.html


Why does this help?.. Bone weighting is based upon adjacent geometry (in all 3d apps).. the less goemetry you have nearby the better the falloff, (like a gradient). The better the fallof the better your deformations will work.. right off the bat. It is the basis of easier character animation. No one can explain this concept better than Taron.. IMHO...

Looking at your model.. which is really a fairly simple structure, you could get away with much less density.. and use Zbrush or something like that to add details as needed..

Believe me.. I struggle with the same thing.. learning this will prevent you from being so frustrated.. Messiahs bones are awesome.. most the time you do not even need MetaEffectors\weights.. The time you spend modeling with minimal geometry will pay off!

2Cnts.
G.

Thanks Rick

Here is a video of how the hip is deforming with the thigh:

http://www.3dfrog.com/wips/forums/messiahhip.mov (http://www.3dfrog.com/wips/forums/messiahhip.mov)

I have been trying for hours and hours on this. Tried metaeffectors and muscle bones mostly. But cant get any good results. I don't know what a morph target is yet, I'll find out.

Any tips appreciated.

Thanks :)

dborruso
03-07-2008, 05:58 PM
Yipppeeee

Thanks Lanos. I was using a subdivided mesh I imported. I took the unsubdivided mesh imported it, and hit tab, and all was good. Now I am getting good deforms :). Well all that time trying wasn't wasted, I learned a bunch of features. The model looks the same because it is painted with 3d-brush and has bump map and everything that works with the low and high poly mesh :) I also made the hip higher as ulven said. I am very happy now :)

Thanks for the compliment on the character. I am pretty happy with him. I modeled with only a:m splines for years. Getting better with polys now.

lanosrep1
03-07-2008, 07:11 PM
Glad that helped.. and that you had a low poly object! Make a huge difference!

I started with AM too.. many of us on this list started with it as well.

Happy Animating :)
G.

PS. If you are still new to poly modeling.. be sure to check out Taron's DVD. it will revolutionize the way you model.. truely!

catizone
03-07-2008, 09:29 PM
Glad it's working for you, but the hip socket should sit inside the body. When you start the leg bone at the level of the crotch, it is not going to work the way you would want/expect. This is especially true of realistic or semi-realistc animals (even if stylized). The frog is nearly human in stature, but I would have the hip/leg pivot within the body where it "normaly" sits.

Your leg transitions up into the torso....it is not an appendage stuck onto the bottom of it. That is probably some of what you may be unhappy with...because it is bending at the END of the torso.

Best,
Rick

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