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jeremy weldon
04-18-2002, 04:03 AM
i would like to say thanks to those who gave me some good
advise, i found it to be helpfull:-)

i am taking down the picture now, this can serve no purpose any longer.

i found it hurtfull, being called a liar, and a theif.

there are countless hollywood movies and tv shows that
show skulls on the ground, and yet someone thinks he
knows exactly where i got my image idea from.

i find that odd!

justinking1973
04-18-2002, 04:28 AM
Too dark all over, even if suppose to be at night. Would have a moonlight over the skulls, at least have some highlights to showoff the objects.

Justin

Error323
04-18-2002, 05:00 AM
What he said... but the skulls are very nice modelled :)

jeremy weldon
04-18-2002, 05:20 AM
...

AriTibbs
04-18-2002, 08:59 AM
http://www.splutterfish.com/sf/Images/img_f08_Willi_Hammes_max4.jpg

If the above linked image isn't yours, shame on you for plagiarism.

lildragon
04-18-2002, 09:18 AM
I was going to mention that, but I just thought he was inspired :)

cheers

jeremy weldon
04-18-2002, 09:29 AM
for 1 the linked image is not mine. and 2 the linked image is
much better than my own. 3 i was inspired after watching
terminator 2.

and let me just say this image was made just for fun.
i dont mean to offend anyone.

Error323
04-18-2002, 06:44 PM
I think it's cool anyway... :) Nice job! :buttrock:

AriTibbs
04-18-2002, 07:21 PM
"3 i was inspired after watching terminator 2."

Being inspired is one thing, but don't lie. Lieing is wrong and not wholesome. If you copied, just admit it. You've been busted. Your image composition is nearly identical to that of the "inspiration"

"and let me just say this image was made just for fun.
i dont mean to offend anyone."

The fact that you made the image, or got inspired or whatever, isn't the point of contention. Sure, it lowers your credibility as an artist to release an image without giving proper credit to another image that is obviously the basis for your work, but the only reason I'm even taking the time to respond is that your argument of being inspired is weak. You copied it. Then lied about copying it. You're not wholesome.

... and in reply to "I think it's cool anyway... Nice job! Please don't post ever again. You're not fit.

JayDog
04-18-2002, 07:23 PM
I agree... you're a poser...

lildragon
04-18-2002, 08:35 PM
chill out a tad guys :o

cheers

Taoizm
04-18-2002, 08:39 PM
wow, harsh. Easy guys. :shame:

Jermey, keep up the nice work. I think the latest version is a little dark, and the scene may be a little empty for a field of bones/skulls. Looking good though :thumbsup:

Equinoxx
04-18-2002, 08:48 PM
Originally posted by AriTibbs

... and in reply to "I think it's cool anyway... Nice job! Please don't post ever again. You're not fit. [/B]

Who died and made you judge huh . . .

course it's not cool to copy art, but he says he's inspired by the image . . . that should be enough . . . you on a trip or sommin . . .
tryin to be the high and mighty manhunter when it comes to cg images and copyright stuff and all or sommin huh . . .

chill out man . . .

leigh
04-18-2002, 09:06 PM
Come on guys, I mean reaaaaallly... there are only so many ways to do a bunch of skulls in dirt :shrug: , you really can't accuse people of plagarism for this... :p

jeremy - nice skulls, man :thumbsup: . Just lesten up on the bump a bit ;)

henry
04-18-2002, 09:22 PM
AritTibbs what the fu*k is your problem???? This guy didn't copy, he made some skulls in dirt, if you can't realise how common THAT is then it's YOU that don't fit in here my friend. Cuz if the whole thing worked that way, we'd all be copying stuff from each other, wouldn't we? (see robots with big guns, chicks with big tits, FLOWERS, monsters with wings etc)

so chill out cuz you're bein mean and I aint diggin it

and you're not a judge to say who fits and who doesn't, so fade out man!


:wavey:

p.s. BOTH pics are looking great but I like this one better, good job jeremy

AriTibbs
04-18-2002, 09:32 PM
Jesus Christ...

All you touchy feely "artists" out there talking about him being inspired, him making an art piece. How is this inspiration and not copying? Explain that. I don't have a problem with it at all if it's a technical exploration based on someone elses work, but this piece was to be passed off as artwork without any due credit to the original artist.

If you don't believe me, aside from the occasional spine and the cooler coloring of the perpatrated image, the composition and layout are almost identical. Sure its not a GOOD copy, but its still a copy being passed off as art.

All you who jump to the defense of something like this really perplex me.

And if someone makes a comment like "I think it's cool anyways..." then that (in my opinion) is stupid and that person has no business posting stuff like that. Too often these forums are filled with people making asenine posts in regards to anything.

This guy ripped off another artist and passed it off as his own. No mention of inspiration or anything originally. Just a "check this out" post. Ridiculous.

"course it's not cool to copy art, but he says he's inspired by the image ...

Gimmie a break. Just cause he says he was inspired, I should believe him although there is much more evidence of a forgery than of inspiration? I think a lot of you need to re-evaluate what "inspiration" really means. It's not biting off someone's idea and re-hashing it on your own terms...that's still plagerism.

Either be more specific in your descriptions of your pieces (ie original piece, technical exploration, experimentation, inspired piece), or be prepared to defend them. In the original message the question asked to the general board was "what do you think?" I replied with what I thought. Which was, if you didn't make it, then shame on you for ripping it off. If you want critiques, ask for them, but be prepared to defend them. All this touchy feely "Wow that rocks!" stuff doesn't help anything. Ego boosts don't make you a better artist.

kandyman
04-18-2002, 09:52 PM
I think it's not a copy. There's only so many ways you can make skulls in dirt. It's bad when someone passes other's works as his own, but this isn't the case here.

I'd still like to see something more original in the image, maybe monster skulls, or artifacts... somthing that tells me a story that extends beyond "someone dies here".

marin

jeremy weldon
04-18-2002, 10:56 PM
i think i should explain how this image came to be.
it was around halloween and i wanted to do somthing
creepy, plus i wanted to do more tests with displacement.
i originally planned to have rusted swords and battle axes
in the sceane, but then i got a bad flu bug that made me really
sick for about a weak. and after i recoverd, halloween was done
then the work load at work doubled, so i just never got around to
finishing it the way i wanted to. i found this image in my old
backup archive and thought i would post it as is.

so i guess i made the mistake of putting unfinished work
in this section, but in a way i dont really plan on finishing it
any more i just dont have the time:-(

Equinoxx
04-18-2002, 11:01 PM
Ari, it's easy to say hey you, that's plagiarism . . .

you talk about critique, I ask you then where you're input is where you say what he should change to make it look less like Willi's image . . .

people who are new to cg [not saying he is, but assuming it] always try to better their skills by copying of "the masters" they don't know copyright is such an issue in our social environement . . .

all i ask for is to give the guy a break and tell him it's not done . . . but also, DO tell him what he should do to change it . . .

parallax
04-19-2002, 12:14 AM
Aritibs
please cool down man.:eek:
kandyman has a very valid point.
There only a few ways to believably put some skulls in the ground.
I see clear differences between Jeremy's work and willi hammes' work.
The POV for instance is NOT the same, and yes, he did use some other objects.
The subject matter isn't very original also, i bet you have never seen T2:judgement day.
He could have piled up a crap load of skulls, but that also has already been done.
I really dont see it as plagiarism.
And try to say some usefull stuff, instead of the 'touchy feely artist' remark.:thumbsdow
If you're like that, what are you doing here anyway. :shrug:

leigh
04-19-2002, 12:26 AM
Jesus christ on a fecking bicycle...

AriTibbs - just what the hell is your freaking problem??!!! Have you actually got nothing better to do with your time then sit and bitch and whine and whinge about absolutely nothing?
I'm sorry if I sound a bit crass here, but your comments are really starting to piss me off.
So he made some skulls in dirt. Skulls in dirt are skulls in dirt. How many different ways can there be to make f**king skulls in f**king dirt??!!!
If you want to get on this guys case, then you have to start bitching at 90% of the other people on this forum for making manga style chicks with huge tits.
Because that seems to be what your idea of plagarism is.
It seems to me that all you seem intent on is pissing people off (which you have certainly succeeded at) and being negative.

Get a damn life.

Stop being so bloody negative, and if you don't have anything to constructive say, or if all you want to do is start a fight, then take your shit elsewhere. We don't need it here, thank you very much.

And as for your "All this touchy feely "Wow that rocks!" stuff doesn't help anything. Ego boosts don't make you a better artist" - his render, in case you haven't noticed, is actually quite good.

I think you need to get yourself a dictionary and look up the word plagarism, because you seem to have a really distorted idea of it. Was it maybe just a word that you learned yesterday, and where just intent on using, or what? Yeah, I know I'm resorting to rather high-schoolish taunts here, but that seems to be your level of mindset, apparently.

No one has stolen anything here. And no one has lied about anything here.

Some guy just modelled and textured some skulls lying in some dirt.

It's as simple as that.

if youcan't handle that, or if you find that offensive, really, just go somewhere else. Your kind of irritating negativity is not needed or wanted around here.

By the way, it really is a shame that a thread that was meant to be displaying a (yes I'm going to say it) piece of art has turned into a debate on plagarism. Jeremy, as I said before, well done on some great looking skulls :)

Joel Hooks
04-19-2002, 01:07 AM
It's actually more than just skulls like the link image. It has ribs and a spine in it also.

Reminds me of poltergeist when they find the bones in the dirt.

henry
04-19-2002, 01:20 AM
What SHE said

:thumbsup:

btw, umm i did a robot, are you gonna tell George Lucas?

JayDog
04-19-2002, 11:24 AM
You're all just angry that Ari called the kid out on copying that image. The majority of the people on forum give the most useless comments in the world. "WOW, I like it. Thats cool!" ... holy shit, thanks for the crit! When someone actully says something worth while, you all jump on him. Now your all getting angry and thats just funny to me. I think I'll have a laugh... ha..ha....muhahahaahah.... oh geez that was fun.

Equinoxx
04-19-2002, 02:12 PM
you're somewhat right . . . when lookin at a glance,
but why i get upset is that either people "OOH AAH" or they go 180 degrees the other way, just saying it sucks or is a rip-off . . .

ari did the latter . . . don't get me wrong, it's ok to say that something is not done, but just don't leave it at that . .
give someone a chance to explain himself, and tell him what he should do to give it a uniqueness . .. that's all . . .

in short, callin someone out is ok, leaving it at that is not.

AriTibbs
04-19-2002, 02:30 PM
So what? Great skulls in dirt. I'm sayin that the image was eerily similar to another piece done awhile ago by another artist. Surely there are many ways to do skulls in dirt, but c'mon, if you jump to the defense of this as inspiration and not as rip-off, then you're too soft. Noone on this board ever wants to get in anyone's face. Noone wants to say what they think. I do. No matter what the subject matter, ripping someone off is still ripping someone off. I think plagerism (look it up, I'm using it in the correct context) is bogus, and makes you look stupid. If you copy someone else's work, name it as reference. By brandishing a piece, posted in the "gallery/finshed" works catagory, without any notice that this is a tech experiment, or where it came from or from whom it was "inspired" gives teh impression of an ORIGINAL PIECE. I called my suspicioun of plagerism and I gave the chance to the "artist" to make a counter-point, and all that was returned was some garbage about Terminator 2. Ooh..BFD. If you can't see how close the 2 are, then you're blind.

jeremy weldon
04-19-2002, 03:17 PM
its over
i would like to say thanks to those who gave me some good
advise, i found it to be helpfull:-)

i am taking down the picture now, this can serve no purpose any longer.

i found it hurtfull, being called a liar, and a theif.

there are countless hollywood movies and tv shows that
show skulls on the ground, and yet someone thinks he
knows exactly where i got my image idea from.

i find that odd!

epatnor
04-19-2002, 03:35 PM
But... is this piece really mean't to pass for "artwork"? OK so this piece ended up in the Gallery/Finished work section, and I'm guessing that that's what Ari is after. Maybe it should have been posted in/moved to like the WIP or 3D artwork sections, since the primary reason for images to be posted in this forum is to get your work critisized, not just admired by others. In fact, I don't think that is why Pascal, Equinoxx, Taoizm and other respected and experienced artist hang around here.

The two images are VERY close in their content and composition, lightning etc. But still! - it seems to me like Jeremy was doing a test and when you're new to 3D, then the best way to learn is really just to copy an earlier scene, object, character, lightsetting or whatever.

And when you're struggling to learn the craftsmanship, the replies you expect (especially in this forum) would be like: "Well, I can see that you're trying to replicate Willi Hammes skulls-in-dirt piece from ghost. It's very nice so far, but I think you need to work on the bump- and specular maps... And don't forget to tweak that subtle lighting! Anyway, you're making good progress my friend!" etc etc... :wip:

See? I mean, you should have been here earlier this winter/spring Ari, ideas was bouncing off the walls when the challenges was started by Pascal! Not everything, but most artwork has been "original" since these challenges started! But it was great inspiration, and the "elephants" as I'd like to call them (the heavy artillery in the 3D community, like the ones mentioned above) really stood up for us mosquitos and critisized and gave suggestions... Perfect learning environment! And so far, that is what this forum basically stands for. And I feel privileged to be part of it. :thumbsup:

No offense, but I could'nt help noticing your post count. You have pretty strong opinions for a newbie, especially if you don't have the feel and atmosphere of the forum. But maybe you've been here longer as a guest Ari? :confused:

Anyway, try and chill out boys. I don't think that Jeremy really tried to pass this off as his own original artwork! But on the other hand, I don't think that Jeremy should use this "as-is" in any portfolios or in public to promote himself... right Jeremy? ;)

epatnor
04-19-2002, 04:59 PM
Hey Jeremy! Don't give up man! If you can find the time - refine your scene and work with it to stand out until it stops looking like the original. For the record - I too recognize the source of inspiration, but I think that's not the issue discussed here.

IMHO, it's nice, and it could only get better! Put back your battle axes with nice rust on them and tweak textures 'til people don't have a clue where your inspiration came from. Check the new texture section for this! :lightbulb

My 26 cents :)

JayDog
04-19-2002, 10:14 PM
Jeremy, Dont be a panzi and take down your image! Thats just stupid. If your gonna take crits so personally you shouldn't post your crits on a gallery message board!

If this was just a "test" then thats fine. But it shouldn't be on the CG Talk Gallery. Tests are fine. You can learn from others, but one thing you don't do is post it as your own work. If I am going to study a Michaelangelo drawing, and make a reproduction, Im not going to take that reproduction to my drawing class and pass it off as my own.

And as for taking your drawing down... Put it back up! This one of the most intelligent conversations I've seen on this forum. I want new people to be able to come in and join in on this. So put it back up or Ill find it in my temp int files and post it myself.

leigh
04-19-2002, 10:24 PM
Heheheh I like your attitude, JayDog! :D


Post the image again, Jeremy!!

Daveaustin
04-20-2002, 12:48 AM
Yeh come on Jeremy don't give up, just cos of a couple of harsh remarks..
this has definitely been the most interesting thread for quite a while :) even though it's kind of mutated from the original purpose...

Definitely put the pic back up.. keep working on it as well.. we want to see updates as often as you can!!

jeremy weldon
04-20-2002, 03:11 AM
its the last update.

null
04-20-2002, 03:15 AM
do i sense bitterness in AriTibbs' comments? :bounce: :wavey:

dmonk
04-20-2002, 03:45 AM
Same subject matter, but not a rip off.

JacquesD
04-20-2002, 03:51 AM
I wonder where Willi Hammes got his inspirations, maybe he also stole it from someone else idea, who himself copy from someone else inspirations, who...who...who... :rolleyes:

Every artists get inspired by someone, something, whatever.

What if I want to make skulls in dirt, do I have search every single artists in the world who might had done an artwork that involves skulls in dirt and ask them what I can do if I don't want to be called a thief.

I think that before I post my next artwork, I call a lawyer first.

If you take it that way, I say everybody is copying everybody and vice versa.

I don't recall who treated him like a thief but whoever you are, stop making a fool of yourself and get laid once in a while, you'll feel better.

LFShade
04-20-2002, 04:16 AM
You know what was so painfully frustrating about reading all of these posts? The fact that nobody even acknowledged that MR. Weldon DID NOT PROFESS TO HAVING EVEN KNOWN ABOUT WILLI HAMMES' IMAGE when he created his own bones in the dirt! He says it was inspired by one of the Terminator movies, and I believe him. This kind of subject matter could have been inspired by any number of things - the Holocaust, any of several dozen movies, even the recent crematorium scandal where hundreds of bodies that were to be cremated were instead found strewn about the landscape. Willi Hammes image may be a great one, but it by no means gives him exclusive ownership of the idea of rotting dead people! To suggest that Weldon *may* have been copying Hammes' image is one thing, but to hammer at him for plagiarism after he gives a plausible alternative explanation of his scene's origins is really wrong:mad:

Taoizm
04-20-2002, 12:43 PM
Jeremy, I like the direction you took the piece. Gives it a time frame now. :) The sword and shield are a nice addition. My only crit is the lighting. Still a bit dark for my taste. Maybe a little more fill light on the front of the skulls. They just diappear a little much. Really nice update though. Keep em' coming. :D

leigh
04-20-2002, 05:24 PM
Hey Jeremy, your skulls look fantastic :buttrock:
The only comment I have is that there should be just a little more colour... The blue wash is cool, but I wouldn't necessarily make it so strong...
But that's just my humble opinion :)
Once again, awesome work :thumbsup:

Error323
04-20-2002, 05:35 PM
Originally posted by AriTibbs
Jesus Christ...

All you touchy feely "artists" out there talking about him being inspired, him making an art piece. How is this inspiration and not copying? Explain that. I don't have a problem with it at all if it's a technical exploration based on someone elses work, but this piece was to be passed off as artwork without any due credit to the original artist.

If you don't believe me, aside from the occasional spine and the cooler coloring of the perpatrated image, the composition and layout are almost identical. Sure its not a GOOD copy, but its still a copy being passed off as art.

All you who jump to the defense of something like this really perplex me.

And if someone makes a comment like "I think it's cool anyways..." then that (in my opinion) is stupid and that person has no business posting stuff like that. Too often these forums are filled with people making asenine posts in regards to anything.

This guy ripped off another artist and passed it off as his own. No mention of inspiration or anything originally. Just a "check this out" post. Ridiculous.

"course it's not cool to copy art, but he says he's inspired by the image ...

Gimmie a break. Just cause he says he was inspired, I should believe him although there is much more evidence of a forgery than of inspiration? I think a lot of you need to re-evaluate what "inspiration" really means. It's not biting off someone's idea and re-hashing it on your own terms...that's still plagerism.

Either be more specific in your descriptions of your pieces (ie original piece, technical exploration, experimentation, inspired piece), or be prepared to defend them. In the original message the question asked to the general board was "what do you think?" I replied with what I thought. Which was, if you didn't make it, then shame on you for ripping it off. If you want critiques, ask for them, but be prepared to defend them. All this touchy feely "Wow that rocks!" stuff doesn't help anything. Ego boosts don't make you a better artist.

Damn man... soon i can't even create something that already excists on this world. That sux. And I said it's cool anyway.. because it sux when u are proud of something u make and some guy f*cks it up with his post. U can't tell ppl what to make and what not too.

:: Error

Daveaustin
04-20-2002, 06:09 PM
hey man, definitely better.. nice touch with the shields and swords..
I agree with Leigh about the colour of it... you could always stick it in Photoshop and increase the contrast and brightness a touch.. give the scene a bit more definition, just an idea :)

JayDog
04-21-2002, 05:45 AM
"because it sux when u are proud of something u make and some guy f*cks it up with his post. U can't tell ppl what to make and what not too."

Hey Error323.... He didn't f*ck with his post. Giving criticism can be helpful. Arri had done nothing wrong. He called him for ripping off the peice off at first, then the kid followed up saying that he didn't copy it and he was just inspired by it. Then Arri argued back. If you look at the 2 pictures they were extremely similar. I really wish he would post the old images back up so that other people can come in and see whats going on. You probably think a good thread is one where people say "wow I like it" Thats a useless comment. You get a message board full of those and you learn nothing. If your gonna compliment something, at least give a reason why "you like it."

This industry, (Computer animation, Film, Hollywood, whatever) is filled with a bunch of followers and unorigional people. Movies today suck. I hate hollywood. It is the biggest bunch of fakes I have ever seen. It especially disturbs me to see people on this channel ripping off things that have already been done. These are supposed to be the future minds of the world. Be creative. You have infinate possabilities with these damn 3d programs. Look at ancient civilizations like the Egyptians, Greeks, Mayans, ect.. They were probably the most creative minds ever. They really didn't have to much to look at for "inspiration." They just thought all that shit up themselves. I'm rambeling, but hopefully you get my point.

GRMac13
04-21-2002, 07:14 AM
JayDog, they are SKULLS IN DIRT, get over it. Like others on this thread have said there only so many ways you can do skulls in dirt. Just because something contains subject matter that has been used by another artist, doesnt mean it's been ripped off. By the way, I'd like to know of any artwork that is not inspired by either another piece of artwork or some real-world experience. I'll be waiting...

edit: Considering how you "see people on this channel ripping off things that have already been done." Is there anything that you have done that doesn't fall into this category. I highly doubt it.

AriTibbs
04-21-2002, 07:55 AM
I'm sitting back in my chair laughing my face off at the majority of you lobbing insults (ie, "why don't you get laid once in awhile") and bitching and moaning about "its only skulls in dirt". Well, I guess I didn't make my point clear originally, and the only one who seems to be understanding what I'm trying to say is Jay Dog (thanks).

His piece WAS POSTED in the GALLERY section. When someone posts something in the GALLERY section, wouldn't it make sense to assume that it is an original piece of artwork if nothing was said about it other than "hey check this out"?

IN THAT CONTEXT it looked like a copy to me. Not the fact that its skulls in dirt, but beyond that. Look at the COMPOSITION (I'm capping words so you can all look them up), look at the LIGHTING, look at the FORMAT. To anyone who was looking at it AS IS with the only description of "hey, check this out", most people who have an eye for these things would assume its a copy.

Shit the way you people talk it makes me wonder how much experience in traditional art you have. Have you ever REALLY been critiques? Since it seems most haven't, they don't just go with "wow I wish I could do that" and "you the man!". If you have very little art experience (and most of you appear to have less than that with your "wow that's awesome" critique commentary), then you won't go farther than pixel pushing.

Use your heads, don't put tests in the gallery section without any explanation or you'll get chewed up. Be prepared for NEGATIVE COMMENTARY. My god, if you did that in the "real world", as some of you say I should wake up and enjoy, then you'd be crucified far worse than any negative comments I've made.

Get thicker skin or get out of this industry. There is no room for followers and no room for whiners.

EDIT : this commentary is describing the ORIGINALLY posted image...not the one you see now. The one you see now is getting closer to seperating itself, especially with the shield marking an approximate time of place. I also think its too blue and the overall tones aren't distributed enough to draw you eye to a focal point in the image.

Damien B
04-21-2002, 09:24 AM
:wip: :wip: :wip:
I like the fog it gives it more Death like but the bule
light is just right it give's a movie feel not bad
good work keep it up

ps AriTibbs get off his back
he is trying at least and you just Blalb a lot.:scream: :scream: :scream: :scream: :scream:

Pixarman
04-21-2002, 01:07 PM
He never once said he was inspired by that other "skulls in dirt" image. He said he was inspired by Terminator 2. If you look back at his actual words you can clearly see that.

Also I really don't think the two images look so identical really. Sure they have a similar theme, but in this biz...one tends to see that a little too often. For the fact that you claim plagiarizm is false. If infact this were truly a plagiarized image, almost every bit of it would be the same, or that he might even try to pass the other one off as his own.

Both images may have similar themes and colors, but I see different textures, different models, other pieces of bones, a flat terrain versus a hilly terrain, and even different lighting and rendering choices. It's true, they are close in similarity, but when ones looks at the context and image content, what would most likely be the image that pops into your head when you think "skulls in dirt?" Probably some old skulls, and various other bones buried in some brown dirt. Where I come from all the dirt is brown, and all the skulls are dirty yellowish white.;)

The worst thing he may have done was looked at this image a while back and then saw T2 and when he went to put it together his mind pulled bits and pieces from what he has seen in the past.

Here's a thought, since I use the word "the" a lot, am I plagairizing the guy who first used it? :wip:

And if you have something to say, why not offer up some suggestions on how to make it look less like the other image and stuff like that other than running around pointing fingers :shame:

Pixarman
And no I don't work there....yet :wavey:

AriTibbs
04-21-2002, 01:14 PM
I must say I'm quite impressed.

For someone who demonstrates a keen eye in looking over the image in question...not once does it seem to occur to you to read the posts that come before what you wrote about.

For one, the image has since been heavily modified since its original posting...GASP yes, you're looking at a noticably different image.

Secondly, I gave a brief critique in my last post about the current image.

Thirdly, go back and read my last post...you should gather a good reasoning for my accusation of plagerism...when at first it wasn't an accusation but more of a question.

I strongly suggest you open your eyes before you open your mouth and start spouting off commentary when you clearly haven't read the entirety of the forum post.

Pixarman
04-21-2002, 01:33 PM
I did see the original image he posted a few days back and I saw your original few posts. The ones were you also said you weren't buying the whole inspired thing. When he said it was T2 he was inspired by in the first place. Not the other image.

Anyways it feels like your really just trying to "gasp" instgate arguements rather than be helpful.

You have an opinion as do I, so does everyone here. State your opinion, offer up suggestions and move on...nobody likes a podium hogger;)

I believe this topic should be locked or moved to the General Discussions forum, 'cause it seems to no longer be a gallery topic at this point.

Pixarman

LFShade
04-21-2002, 04:42 PM
Sorry, AriTibbs, but your fallacies, erroneous assumptions, disregard for fact, and subsequent backpedaling are adding up to the conclusion that you're the one who's missed the point. Here are some prime examples from your posts:

wouldn't it make sense to assume that it is an original piece of artwork if nothing was said about it other than "hey check this out"?
And yet you assumed otherwise.

...it lowers your credibility as an artist to release an image without giving proper credit to another image that is obviously the basis for your work...(snip)...You copied it. Then lied about copying it.
You state your opinion as if it were fact. You have assumed that the one image can only have been derived from the other image, ignoring all other possibilities. You are confusing cause and effect, since it is equally likely that both images drew from some other source or combination of sources. Again, Willi Hammes was probably not the first artist to depict skulls in dirt with low light.

Use your heads, don't put tests in the gallery section without any explanation or you'll get chewed up.
And we're to believe that you "chewed him up" for posting a test? No. You flew right out of the gates with cries of "Thief!" Otherwise, you would have had a much better point!

Be prepared for NEGATIVE COMMENTARY.
Be prepared to give some. Little of what you submitted qualifies as commentary. Unqualified accusation would be a better word for it. And before you become tempted to say "But I did qualify it, I said the composition, lighting, and format were the same," I will remind you that none of this appeared in your first post. In fact, it only appeared after Mr. Weldon had already plausibly denied that his image was a copy of Hammes. Your response was, ridiculously, to accuse him of lying. Sort of reminds me of the kind of thinking used during the Salem witch trials: only a witch could be cunning enough to deny being a witch, right?

I gave a brief critique in my last post about the current image.
Sure, but can't you at least concede that a couple of lines of critique is a little thin after you've posted a page or more worth of non-constructive accusation and insult?

...you should gather a good reasoning for my accusation of plagerism...when at first it wasn't an accusation but more of a question.
If at first it was not an accusation, then why didn't you accept the rebuttal? If you were already convinced beyond argument that the image was a copy, then that first post was indeed an accusation, my friend!

I think plagerism (look it up, I'm using it in the correct context) is bogus, and makes you look stupid.
Why don't you look it up yourself. I'll even help you out: http://www.dictionary.com/search?q=plagerism. Talk to us about stupid when you find out how it's really spelled.

It just bugs me when people don't reason things through:mad:

AriTibbs
04-21-2002, 09:33 PM
I don't see your point. How have I missed the point? If this is what Lil Dragon says it is, then this forum is for FINAL WORK only. As was originally shown, one would only assume the piece was final and not a WIP. I stated my opinion saying "IF this is plagerism shame on you". Not saying he playgerized, but letting it be known that it was my OPINION that he did.

His rebutal of "I was inspired by T2" seemed bogus to me when in comparison with the other image. Just because someone says they were inspired by something else, it doesn't nessicarily facilitate their arguement. If you want to split hairs, SURE, he might have been inspired, but because his original image looked more of a copy than something inspired by T2 might look like, I called him on it.

I haven't backpedaled and I won't do so either. I still firmly believe his original image was a copy of the one on the link I posted.

Copying is rampant by people on this board and everywhere else. I'm not even going to touch on the millions of guns, chicks and robots, but just in general, there are many ideas passed off on this board as "original" work (in context, not by flat out saying 'hey this is original') that is pretty sad. I've seen it many times in 2d, web, 3d, and GALLERY posts.

If his image wasn't done, he shouldn't have posted in the GALLERY section which is clearly intended for FINAL work.

If his work wasn't a copy, but instead inspired by T2, then why did he change it after the commentary. If I had made a work that was inspired, but others accused me of copying, there would be no way I would change it. This isn't the Salem which hunt, but an excuse of "it's just skulls in dirt" or "he was INSPIRED by T2 because he said so" is garbage. If I shoplifted and told a cop who busted me I was only borrowing it, not stealing...would he believe me? Doubtfull at best.

ps - nice h4x0r attack, massive quoting and then the finally with an attack on my spelling. Is your argument soo weak as to augment it with stupid smiley faces and retributions of grammar?
Why don't you look it up yourself. I'll even help you out: http://www.dictionary.com/search?q=plagerism. Talk to us about stupid when you find out how it's really spelled.
...its actually spelled plagiarism...if YOU need to look it up, the correct link is http://www.dictionary.com/search?q=plagiarism&r=3

Error323
04-21-2002, 09:36 PM
Ok let's all just stop about this... we were just misunderstanding eachother.... Peace dude :) Back to what's really important... modelling :D

parallax
04-21-2002, 09:46 PM
Aritibbs >> fill in your profile please.

JayDog
04-21-2002, 11:15 PM
Why are you all fighting for Jeremy? He has made no attempt to defend himself. As a matter of fact, he has (cowardly) taken down the previous versions of his “skulls in dirt,” Which started this whole argument. All I can do is laugh at the mass stupidity that is this thread. Arri Is the only one who seems to have the balls enough to say what he thinks. What is even funnier is that you are all resorting to try to belittle him by trying to find flaws in his spelling and taking random quotes out of context. And what could be funnier that that? The fact that you all want everyone to stop arguing… I wish this would have happened on my thread.

Also, on a not so distant side note, where the hell is the Jeremy Weldon is all of this? Why is he not standing up for himself? Defend your work! Everyone else is attempting to defend there opinions and he has remained silent. Nice…


plagiarism: the act of plagiarizing; taking someone's words or ideas as if they were your own

lildragon
04-21-2002, 11:29 PM
ok guys, I think we've reached a certain limit here :)

both sides have made good arguments, and Jaydog's first sentence in his last post made sense, Jeremy is not even fighting this battle ;)

So can we please lay down our arms and shake hands and let by gones be by gones....

keep the peace :love:

cheers

jeremy weldon
04-22-2002, 02:23 AM
ive made my points, im so glad so many
people understood me, in the fact that im not a theif, nor a liar.

the reson i havent been defending myself much is because
i feel ive said everything i need to say.

and i just dont have the time to come back here and defend myself on this forum every 30 minutes.

note to the admin lildragon: i totaly agree that this thread has gone
far enough, you have my full support to kill it, and ive learned my lesson not to post half completed work, sorry about that.

whammes
04-22-2002, 03:43 AM
IMHO I don't think Jeremy copied my image, it's way to different from my one. How ever, I like your image, just needs a little tweaking.

Remember everyone, art is to know where to copy from. There is no way that you can create something completely new in this world.

Gilgamesh
04-22-2002, 04:04 AM
I'm sorry guys, but I just have to post a quote that I heard from my painting teacher the other day:

"Bad artists copy. Good artists steal."
-Pablo Picasso

I guess that eventually artists just wouldn't let Picasso into their studios, because they knew he would rip everything off in his own paintings. If you were painting bulls, he would go home and paint better bulls that would kick your painting's ass. I just think that is funny. :D

AriTibbs
04-22-2002, 06:08 AM
Originally posted by whammes
IMHO I don't think Jeremy copied my image, it's way to different from my one. How ever, I like your image, just needs a little tweaking.

Remember everyone, art is to know where to copy from. There is no way that you can create something completely new in this world.

It's not his current image that I brought into question. The image posted now is different than what was originally shown is a nearly identicaly (attempt) at a copy of your work. The current image, I will agree, is different, and that's a good thing. The only 2 points of contention in this thread (originally) were his inspiration/sources, and why he posted a WIP in the GALLERY section without any notice.

Damien B
04-22-2002, 06:20 AM
the battle goes on, man this thread is all most 2 days old
and still near the top.

He should get a star


Evil shall live
:mad:

Error323
04-22-2002, 06:39 AM
Originally posted by Gilgamesh
I'm sorry guys, but I just have to post a quote that I heard from my painting teacher the other day:

"Bad artists copy. Good artists steal."
-Pablo Picasso

I guess that eventually artists just wouldn't let Picasso into their studios, because they knew he would rip everything off in his own paintings. If you were painting bulls, he would go home and paint better bulls that would kick your painting's ass. I just think that is funny. :D

Yeah... and who defines what was stolen and what was copied :) Personnaly I think I would be honored if someone remakes my image (not saying that it happened here).
If Whammes has peace with it... then it's cool right? :cool:

:: Error

JayDog
04-22-2002, 10:48 AM
This world is filled with stupid stupid people...

AriTibbs
04-22-2002, 12:04 PM
No doubt. Everyone is soo quick to say their piece that they don't even understand the point I'm trying to make.

It was never about the fact that it's skulls in dirt. Its the fact of the concept, layout, execution, lighting, texturing and composition of the original image (not the edited one). For more information on how to post for the gallery...especially when sighting influences...see this thread (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6119).

Jhonus
04-22-2002, 04:45 PM
Originally posted by JayDog
This world is filled with stupid stupid people...

your a genius.:thumbsup:

Damien B
04-22-2002, 04:45 PM
skulls and dirt humm where did I see that before
T2, williow, fryday the 13th, sleepy halow, ect

I don't think any persion can put a copyright on
skulls and dirt.

If you think Iam Bull sh#t than get a life.
:wip: :wip: :wip:

sireel
04-22-2002, 07:55 PM
:thumbsdow alright guys this is totally non constructive. The whole point of this chat board is to bring us together and share our ideas.... ANY idea including those that closesly resemble others or even those that might be unpopular. In my opinion AriTibbs made a valid point, I don't agree with it and I certainly don't agree with the way it was said, but his point was valid.

AriTibbs I hope you realize that haveing a valid opinion and a medium to express it doesn't give you the right to hurt peoples feelings. You really need to work on your people skills. I dont care how talented of an artist you may be, being able to express your ideas clearly and constructively will always take you a longer way in this life than coming off as a big headed jerk. Please grow up.

AriTibbs
04-22-2002, 08:42 PM
You know what Sir Eel, I may have been blunt, and my point may be unpopular, but why should me accusing someone of copying be an insult? Yeah I've called a couple of people on this thread stupid, and even caught a couple making mistakes when trying to insult me. If you're going to lecture me on behavior, first look at the posting record and you'll be sure to find at least one full page of people lobbing insults such as "get a damn life", "get laid once in awhile", "you're stupid" and so on.

Before you start giving me the 3rd grade lecture on being nice, take a broader look around.

lildragon
04-22-2002, 08:47 PM
guys again, if this continues, I'll be forced to close this thread...

keep the peace or just let the thread die and be swallowed into the depths..

cheers

-LD

Raul-Reznek
04-22-2002, 10:11 PM
Hey! that's a GOOD image it has some feel of dungeon to it, like a cave in or something and the dust asn't settled yet.


This "COPYING THING" .....DAMN people isn't it ENOUGH that there's a WAR going on in the MIddle EAST? You have to create tension in here too?

I thought ACTS like this were POSSIBLE ONLY in my home county, I thought u more civilised:(
SHAME ON YOU!!!!


Listen to this - one day I was makina drawing it turned out COOL, I wanted to do it in 3d and the day after I saw a character in 2D that looked 90% like the one I drew on paper and NO it wasn't a ORC.

AriE5
04-23-2002, 01:18 AM
I started reading this topic and first thought that AriTibbs was right,... I though how stupid to copy an image,... and make the same compositon too?

...

But then i have seen the Image you were talking about... C'MON!! AriTibbs i dont think the 2 images are similar at all... Realy... i have seen so many skulls in the dirt... The only thing you can criticize is the originality...

But anyway.. GooD WorK JeremY (sorry for my english)

AriTibbs
04-23-2002, 01:23 AM
If the image you have seen is referring to the image currently availiable in this thread posted by Jeremy, then its not the image in question. Jeremy originally posted a much different image, and when the first comments were made questioning the origins of the piece, he proptly took it down instead of defending his work. That odd action alone doesn't completly prove guilt, but its very suspicious that an artist wouldn't defend his own "inspired" work.

I've tried to find the original image in my tmp files, but they're gone. Once again the current image being shown by Jeremy in this gallery is not the original one he posted. It is much changed.

GRMac13
04-23-2002, 01:24 AM
I agree AriE5, the two images are not identical at all (as AriTibbs has claimed). Jeremy's image has swords and shields, and a rib cage, and other bones. The image that was allegedly "copied" is just skulls in dirt. Not to mention, the texture/compositions are very different. The content is merely of a similar nature. I think we all can agree that nothing was "copied." Now can we let this thread burn out?

AriTibbs
04-23-2002, 01:27 AM
GRmac13 - read my post above...it should clear things up for you.

Joel Hooks
04-23-2002, 01:28 AM
Originally posted by GRMac13
Now can we let this thread burn out?

Maybe if you stopped posting to it.

err...

:bounce:

GRMac13
04-23-2002, 01:33 AM
My bad. Well then, I'd like to see the original image. All this fighting over an image that isn't even posted for us to judge for ourselves? Jeremy, please post the original image. Damn, did I post to the "skulls in dirt" thread again? Oh sh*t!

sherban
04-23-2002, 01:36 AM
I see this thread's about to close soon so I thought I'd throw myself into the fray before it's too late :bounce:

first off,
JEREMY:
As the owner of this thread it must feel like you've been accused of bad things and that you shouldn't have to defend yourself so much. However I don't think you should take AriTibb's comments as personal attacks. There are certain rules of etiquette that you have UNINTENTIONALLY broken and he simply called you on them (as he saw them).

I don't think he meant you any personal attack and he did in fact critique your last update quite constructively. (as opposed to some others).

I also don't think you should have taken your original post off. You're quite entitled to it as he is to his opinion. I think you should not be ashamed and post it back - I'd like to see it too. (even if just to see what got this whole thing started ;) ).

ARITIBBS: You're well within your rights to call on people if you think something's not right. I also think there's sometimes an "over-niceness" where there should be harder better crits. Alas, that's not always the case.

JAYDOG: Kudos to you :thumbsup: . You seem to be the only one here with a firm grasp of what's going on.

and now finally,
THE CRITS:

I'd like to expand on Taoizm and Leigh's comments about the coloring/lighting. The blue is nice but you need to add some colors and speculars to break up the piece a bit. Some yellows and Gold's (especially around the sword and shield) would really give the picture more "life". Right now its like a gray picture washed in blue.
Also lighten the whole thing up a bit. It's too dark.

ps. Even if the original idea was inspired by Whammes's image (I'm not saying it is, just if) you have certainly taken it in a different direction and maybe learned a little about the importance of setting your work apart from others. Who knows without this thread you might have ended up with a much more mundane image. cheer up!

Henrik Hörlin
04-23-2002, 01:56 AM
Guys.... (and girls?)
Give it a rest! Please, pretty pleace?
If 5! pages of forum hasn´t said it all it never will be! This is about 3D work! Not a seminar in copyright law or do´s and dont´s when being crative!
Be nice!

AriTibbs
04-23-2002, 01:59 AM
Henrik Hörlin: Does a [somewhat] intellectual discussion about a certain peice of work bother you? Does it also bother you if it sparks off another set of commentary and discussion? If you don't wanna read anymore, don't bother...there are some on this site that enjoy a good conversation and cirtiquing beyond the typical "wow that's really cool! Can I see your wireframe?"

Message boards are about discussion...this has turned into a discussion.