Modeling Details, advice needed

[nelsonartmd]

What about using a displacement map, is that an option? You could keep a very low poly cage and still have all the detail you could ever need. Take a look at the link to see what I'm talking about. I hope this helps. Good luck. :)

http://cube.phlatt.net/forums/spiraloid/viewtopic.php?TopicID=581

[actarusprocyon]

Hi there,

In Max I'd go with manually adding the detail using the cut tool along with snap to midpoint(edges) and vertice.

The meshsmooth may bring the polycount higher than 4k's before you know it and isolating patches+smoothing them will result in incorrect shading around it where both meshes meet.

Still if you want to process like so,use the quad output of the meshsmooth options,that should help you a bit to accomplish what you want.

My best advice to understand how the meshmooth reacts/acts is to actually make an instance of a mesh,add a meshsmooth to it,modifiy the original using your favorite tools and watch what happens on the smoothed version...

hope this helps

[javierdl]

Thank you kindly nelsonartmd & actarusprocyon :)

I guess I'll have to try both suggestions and see.

- nelsonartmd, correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me (based on the "quick" reading I did) that this displacement map option is a bit too dependent on MaxMan, which requires the user to have a "renderer system software" installed. Or doesn't one need MaxMan for it?

Thanks again,

DPC
P.S. Just when I thought I had accumulated enough modeling skills to do a cartoonish character :(

[Neox]

@actarusprocyon wow this is a pretty slow and old method! Try the Meshtools or CS-Polytools they will open your eyes in modelling... you can't get faster without them!

[aehrick]

Hi DrPepperCan & Rest,

Have you considered the option of working backwards? That is, firstly completing your model with all the detail, exceeding the 4000 poly limit so the result looks good. Then removing vertices & edges in areas that aren't that well visible or important to have detail? It might be throwing away hours of modelling, but then again, it might be worth a try. "Hmm, still 200 too much, let's castrate the bastard!" :surprised

Or is this just some stupid idea that only I am too foolish to actually do..? - I'm a sucker for manual labour :wip: // Aehrick.

[actarusprocyon]

Cheers Neox,I'm aware of the meshtools but I've let Max down since 3.1 so I've never got to try them,right now I'm using Xsi.

Seeyall soon ;)

[javierdl]

Wow! It's pretty neat to see some additional feedback :) , thanks guys.

- aehrick : Firstly thanks a bunch for taking the time :) . What you suggested is pretty much what I had in mind to do, except that your suggestion still brings me back to square one in the sense that I still need to figure out which way would be the least labor-intensive and time-consuming to create the details I need. Be it with Displacement Maps, MeshSmooth groups, manually editing the sub-objects, or what?
I have to admit that the Displacement Maps seem atractive enough as they may get the results I want with less work and time ;)
Don't get me wrong, is not that I don't want to put the effort, but if 2 choices give me the same result, why not to go for the most practical one?
(besides, I'm still coping with this stupid tendonitis :(

- actarusprocyon: thanks a bunch too :) . As for playing with the MeshSmooth controls to see what they give me... I'm afraid I had already done that before and I didn't quite understand its philosophy, I mean to say, after I got tired of not seen anything happening I did check the manuals and I still didn't get it :( I guess I just got to make sure I read throughly those manuals again and give it another try.

Thanks again to everyone :)

DPC

[aehrick]

Originally posted by DrPepperCan
[...] What you suggested is pretty much what I had in mind to do, except that your suggestion still brings me back to square one in the sense that I still need to figure out which way would be the least labor-intensive and time-consuming to create the details I need. Be it with Displacement Maps, MeshSmooth groups, manually editing the sub-objects, or what?[...]
Hmmm. If you're in a hurry, my suggestion would always be: go with what you know. If on the other hand you'd like to (and can afford to) experiment, I'd say: Try em all!

Myself, I'm a Nendo-heir. I was in love with Nendo (and Wings3d of course), I fell in love with Meshtools as a MAX-plug and now that there's version 5 I'm straight-edge back on MAX with all it's sweet poly-editing tools. For me, it's the fastest way to get my idea modelled. I stay ultra low-poly, toggling the NURMS-subdevision back and forth, until my model is perfect. Manually adding every cut and every vertex until it's good to go. If I need less polys from there, I remove edges with the right-click-menu.

Then again, my choices are known to hardly ever be the more effective way of doing things...:thumbsdow

Displacements maps can be pretty rough. I'm not really familiar with all the available plug-ins for max when it comes down to displacement maps. But if you want do do things manually, you need to be solid in unwrapping. Unfortunately, "we MAXers" don't have the sweet things people offer at evasion3d (http://www.evasion3d.com/mw_intro.html) yet. But still, you'd need a complete model and go backwards with those methods too, so I don't think it's an option for you.

*sigh* Why do my rants always end in a shoulder-shrug with no good advice? :shrug:

DPC, Would you post a wireframe render?

[javierdl]

Thanks again for all the info aehrick :)
I'll post a couple of images tomorrow.

For now I just wanted to ask, wouldn't it be a problem modeling with displacement maps knowing the model is for a game character?

DPC

[aehrick]

Originally posted by DrPepperCan
wouldn't it be a problem modeling with displacement maps knowing the model is for a game character?

I would certainly think that is a problem. Unless of course your game-engine supports displacement maps...:shrug: which I have not seen yet. Any experts on the subject? // Aehrick.

[javierdl]

Too bad, that's what I suspected :(

Then what about relying on using the creases from MeshSmooth, would those be supported on a game engine?
If not, then I guess I'll have to go manually all the way, right?

DPC

[javierdl]

Ok, I'm throughly going over the MeshSmooth sub-obj controls. I was looking forward to experiment with its Crease & Weight controls, but as you can see in the image I post those controls are NOT available!!! I have tried different things and nothing makes them available! I have followed the tutorial found in the max help file and still can't make them work! :annoyed:
Can someone please enlight me?! :wavey:

http://www.jdlprod.com/temp/maxpalette.gif

DPC
P.S. btw, can anyone explain to me why the images code is off?

[aehrick]

Originally posted by DrPepperCan
I was looking forward to experiment with its Crease & Weight controls, but as you can see in the image I post those controls are NOT available!!!

Turn your object into a poly-object, not a mesh. Then you'll find weight and creases. Try out the NURMS subdevision settings and toggling them on and off with the shortcut Alt-N. I gotta leave now for copenhagen, but I'm sure there are some detailed tutorials on this matter available. Poly-editing, not mesh. // Aehrick.

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