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SirRon
03-01-2008, 06:49 PM
Animations (Please read how many times to vote for Audio and Non-Audio)

Audio (Vote for 1):
MarshallP (LINK (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showpost.php?p=4983380&postcount=3))
jedijrmax (LINK (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showpost.php?p=4983739&postcount=4))

Non-Audio (Vote for 1):
Vesty (LINK (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showpost.php?p=4981278&postcount=2))
Flashmario (LINK (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showpost.php?p=4983909&postcount=5))

Finished Animation Thread <--- click here to see the full list of animations.

Topic Voting (Only ONE for each category):
Non-Audio:
1. Impatiently waiting in line.
2. Dying of thirst or hunger
3. Scared and hiding from someone or something.

Audio:
1. A Christmas Story (http://www.moviewavs.com/php/sounds/?id=bst&media=WAVS&type=Movies&movie=A_Christmas_Story&quote=eatit.txt&file=eatit.wav) (Yes I know it's not Christmas but it's a great line :))
2. Friends (http://moviewavs.com/php/sounds/?id=bst&media=WAVS&type=TV_Shows&movie=Friends&quote=couldie.txt&file=couldie.wav)
3. Pulp Fiction (http://moviewavs.com/php/sounds/?id=gog&media=WAVS&type=Movies&movie=Pulp_Fiction&quote=concentr.txt&file=concentr.wav)

VOTING IS OPEN FOR FOUR DAYS. March 1st - March 4th

Voting Rules:
-If you're one of the animators, don't vote for yourself :)
-Sorry, no prizes.
-If there is a tie then we have more than one person to congratulate.
-Vote for 1 animations in the Audio Clip and 1 animation for the non-Audio animation.
-Everyone can vote!

Feedback:
How do you like it so far? Are there any changes you'd like to see in the challenge? Is the time too long or short? We'd like to hear of any thoughts on how we can improve the format.
-Everyone can give feedback and other topic suggestions.

Thank you everyone who contributed by turning in an animation or giving the animators critiques and encouraging comments. Hope to get you started for the next challenge :)

MarshallP
03-01-2008, 07:19 PM
Voting and comments =)
Audio:
Jedijrmax:
I really liked how snappy the animation came out, It seems to be something that I haven't quite gotten down, and something I see in a lot of AM animation. Particularly the turn around, and slide step looks great. Like you said it isn't complete, but really looking good so far. If I could suggest anything I would try to put a bit more emphasis on the laugh, I think she's continueing the laugh with the same breath, that and some more facial animation in the "I'd find you" part. I'm not sure if thats something you'd agree with or not, I'm still fairly new to the animation scene =). Great job!

Non-Audio:
FlashMario:
I really like how it turned out, I like the same thing about it that I like about jedijrmax's, how it is snappy, I really enjoyed it. good job!


Those are my votes! =)

Vesty
03-04-2008, 03:45 AM
I like MarshallP's for the sound one and Flashmario's for no sound

jedijrmax
03-04-2008, 04:24 AM
Votes:

MarshallP for his entry for the dialogue clip

FlashMario for the non-dialogue clip.

Seems almost silly to vote with just 2 submissions per category -- and especially since the only two voters so far are me and MarshallP and we have to vote for each other! Oh well, that's ok -- hopefully next month more people will do it.

I think that we need to find a site that will allow us to post these files for viewing and for download. I couldn't find any way on vimeo to slow the playback or preferrably step through it frame by frame. I think it would really help us dissect each others animations and be able to refer to specific frames for more valuable feedback.

With that said:

MarshallP:

When looking at your animation, my first thought was actually that it needed to be staged/framed differently. I think that you'd need to bring the camera in closer and be careful about what position you put your characters in. I found it difficult to really see the main character's face clearly (meaning the lip sync and the emotion) and a bit awkward to have the other character's back towards the camera the entire time, never once able to see his face -- especially during his quick, but important, one word line.

I could be wrong, but I'd guess that you didn't shoot any video reference for this. Normally I'd usually only recommend using video reference when absolutely necessary -- that just simply acting it out and feeling your own body would be enough to get a good idea of the motion. However, in this case, I think you might have benefitted from filming someone pushing someone because the push seems really unnatural to me. It's something you really can't do yourself and it's complex enough that I really don't think anybody would have good luck trying to simply imagine it. With the way his torso just rotates around like that was pretty unbelievable to me but I think some video reference in the future would help you really see how it might look. With that said, if you knew you couldn't get video reference for any reason I would've suggested to come up with a way to not have the two characters interact like that.

The rest of my comments after the staging and movement/acting would be in the animation technique itself -- but it's really hard to comment on specifics without frame numbers. What I can say though is that I believe you'd see a large jump in the quality of the actual animation if you take a very close look at the hips of your characters. You are going to want to make sure that you are tracking the arc of motion of your hips. There are certain points where the hips seem to "hit a wall" and there isn't much easing in or out. I'm unsure if this is because you never really thought about the hips in that way or if you are just struggling a little bit with the curves in the graph editor. But if you pretend that the rest of your character doesn't exist and only watch the hips float around -- I think it'd become a bit more obvious. You are going to want the motion to ease in and out of each position so that there are no odd hitches in the movement. Plus you need to make sure that when you move the hips, that they move naturally -- which in many cases means that it'll end up having movement in the x,y, and z axis. Here's what I mean: At the end when the character is laughing, it looks as if the hips are just moving almost perfectly just up and down on the y-axis. Even though 95% of the motion might end up being on the y-axis because you obviously want to raise up and lower the hips -- act it out - shoot video reference. It'll be very subtle but nothing on your body will be moving so perfectly like that. I'd bet that you'd see (or feel) that your hips are probably following a path similar to a vertically elongated circle.

Anyway, with that in mind I'm sure you can go back and see a few places that the hips run into some trouble -- and I'm willing to bet that you'd see a fairly large improvement in this actual animation of your clip if you were to go through and make the hip movements pristine. But with that said I wouldn't kill yourself going back and reworking everything. I'd go in, and use this as practice to really see and understand it. Maybe fix up a small little section of it and then just keep it in mind for the next month's challenge.

It is important to note (especially over text on the internet) I'm certainly not trying to come off as someone that knows everything about animation because I often struggle with the same things myself. What's written above is only my opinion and others may even disagree on the specifics. But, I really do think that the main points of getting reference for the body mechanics, staging this a bit differently, and then tracking the arcs of your main body parts (especially the hips) most would agree with. I'd really love to see someone else come in here and critique your work as well. You can learn yourself by seriously critiquing other's work and then comparing your critique to someone else's!

Thank you for taking the time to write about my animation. Your comments were indeed spot on. I actually laughed myself when you mentioned the "put more emphasis on the laugh" because the entire time I was working on this animation -- I hadn't planned out the blocking for the laugh on paper like I did for everything else. I really struggled to really act out that .. awkward laugh. What happened was I realized that if I didn't actually start animating that I wouldn't finish in time so I animated everything up until the laugh almost to the finished animation you see now -- and then almost straight-aheaded the laugh and then only had a small amount of time to clean it up. Lip sync also got the "last second" treatment and all motion on the jaw is completely only in x-rotation. (which piggy backing off what I said about yours up above --- would never happen and makes it feel a bit dead). I'm getting ready to focus on the next challenge here, but in about another 3 months I'll take these 4 challenges and go back and rework them to fix up the things I just didn't have time to do and hopefully put them on my reel.

As for FlashMario -- the animation I thought was actually pretty spot on; I thought it all came together really well. The only thing I could possibly even comment on is on the actually animation work itself, but the character's movements are really just too fast for me to point out any .. even possible hitch or weird anything. I'd actually love to watch this in slow motion. Any way for you to post this up somewhere?

And for Vesty - I'll do my best to write about your animation sometime tomorrow. My fingers are about to fall off. Hopefully you guys will be up for the challenge next month as well.


My votes for next month's challenge:

Pulp Fiction Line for the Dialogue Challenge
Scared and hiding from someone or something for the Non-Dialogue Challenge

and SirRon -- I'm sure I'd have some ideas for the structure of this challenge but I honestly just haven't had a second to really think about it. I'll see what I can come up with!

MarshallP
03-04-2008, 05:52 AM
Hey Jedijrmax,
I can't tell you how much I apprieciate your feedback, it is stuff like that, that helps me most. Thanks so much. You are right, I didn't use any refrence, and the hips are completely too static in some areas, I've never looked at an animation and just looked at the hips all the way though, I imagine that in itself is going to help me out a ton! I look forward to your work and critiques next month!


Oh and I forgot to vote for the catergory: =)

Non-Audio:
3. Scared and hiding from someone or something.

Audio:
1. A Christmas Story (http://www.moviewavs.com/php/sounds/?id=bst&media=WAVS&type=Movies&movie=A_Christmas_Story&quote=eatit.txt&file=eatit.wav)



Thanks again!

Hamo
03-04-2008, 01:02 PM
I was preparing an entry for last months challenge, never finished it. But there is always this month:).

Votes(Challenge 15):

Non-Audio: Flashmario.

I really liked the quick turn and and re-position. My favourite part is where the saviour checks the position of his arms. Really gives a great sense of anticipation. My only constructive critisism would be, When the saviour moves back to the right of screen and looks up to see where the faller is, I feel that the pose is held for to long,i reckon he should look up for about 15 frames and then get straight into his crouched position.
Just my opinion.


Audio: jedijrmax.

Nice timing and some strong poses. towards the end it was unclear what her left hand was doing.


I think what jedijrmax said in his post applies to me as well. The bit about sounding like i know everything. Its easy to be a critique, the hard work is done by the people who actually submit work, so lots of respect to everyone who submited. And this month i will hopefully have an entry for your guys to crtique as well.

=====================

For the upcoming challenge;

Non-Audio:
3. Scared and hiding from someone or something.

Audio:
3. Pulp Fiction

Icaris
03-04-2008, 09:37 PM
Good work guys. My votes go:

Audio: jedijrmax.

Non-Audio: Flashmario.
I love the wee glance he gives at the groud just before he's hit.

jedijrmax
03-05-2008, 02:26 AM
My comments for Vesty:

Intial pose and anticipation is fairly awkward and a bit unclear. It seems like you were trying to go for a relaxed pose since the character is tapping his foot. But having it paused on a still frame without watching any other part of the animation I would've said that the character may have been having abdominal pains with the way he's leaning forward and the pose of his arms. Once the intial pose is fixed up to look more relaxed (that is what you were going for, right?) you'll want to be careful with the foot tapping. I think it could possibly come off as being a bit impatient.

The anticipation before the run also seems a bit off to me -- although I'm struggling to be able to pick out the details without being able to scrub through. My eye keeps getting drawn to the character's head -- I'm thinking it might not be moving how it should be. I'd take some reference of how your head actually moves when anticipating a run like that. Your anticipation feels a bit exaggerated -- but I think the run is a bit exaggerated as well. I think that exaggerating the anticipation would be just fine - but I have a feeling that something isn't moving properly.

I have to say though that I thought both the run and the jump were successful. The run is a tad stiff to me and I think that it could benefit from additional overlap but I thought the second half of your animation really went well.

Seems to me that the run and jump came a little more natural to you than the initial pose and the anticipation -- which I found interesting. I really would've figured it to be the other way around. I'm going to bet that you had some sort of reference -- either video or key poses from a textbook for the run cycle but just jumped into the computer and straight-aheaded the beginning?

I'm just guessing -- I'd be interested to hear how you went about doing it. It's how I learn too :)

Just curious -- you animated the character using FK arms right?

Good job overall -- I know you said you put this together very quickly.

* * *

We really do need to find a way to post these videos for quicktime download. Vimeo is driving me nuts because not only are you not able to scrub through the animation, you can't even click to a part of the timeline and hit play without starting from the beginning.
I'd love to really get in there and comment about what exactly need more overlap in the run but I really just can't pick out the specific details with it going so fast.

Anyway I'm hoping my comments at the least stir up some activity in the thread. I'd love to receive reverse comments about my critique from the animators. Helps me learn to critique better and you almost always end up learning something you can apply to your own work.

* * *

I'm off for now -- goodnight everyone!

jedijrmax
03-05-2008, 02:31 AM
MarshallP--

When you are working on the next challenge, if you want to ever want me to take a look at something while you are working on it -- send it my way. I'd be happy to try to answer a question that you may have or just give able to give you some comments about anything that seems a bit off (or is done really well).

jedijrmax
03-05-2008, 02:34 AM
SirRon--

Just a heads up -- a couple times this week when I've gone to use your links up at the top, they've linked me to the wrong entry. Right now my link and flashmario's are both pointing to Vesty's animation. It's a bit strange. Happened the other day too to me but all of the links were sending me to MarshallP's work. Anyway, wasn't sure if you were aware something was a bit funky -- well, either on your end or mine. :)

- Jeff

Vesty
03-05-2008, 05:10 AM
My comments for Vesty:

Intial pose and anticipation is fairly awkward and a bit unclear. It seems like you were trying to go for a relaxed pose since the character is tapping his foot. But having it paused on a still frame without watching any other part of the animation I would've said that the character may have been having abdominal pains with the way he's leaning forward and the pose of his arms. Once the intial pose is fixed up to look more relaxed (that is what you were going for, right?) you'll want to be careful with the foot tapping. I think it could possibly come off as being a bit impatient.

The anticipation before the run also seems a bit off to me -- although I'm struggling to be able to pick out the details without being able to scrub through. My eye keeps getting drawn to the character's head -- I'm thinking it might not be moving how it should be. I'd take some reference of how your head actually moves when anticipating a run like that. Your anticipation feels a bit exaggerated -- but I think the run is a bit exaggerated as well. I think that exaggerating the anticipation would be just fine - but I have a feeling that something isn't moving properly.

I have to say though that I thought both the run and the jump were successful. The run is a tad stiff to me and I think that it could benefit from additional overlap but I thought the second half of your animation really went well.

Seems to me that the run and jump came a little more natural to you than the initial pose and the anticipation -- which I found interesting. I really would've figured it to be the other way around. I'm going to bet that you had some sort of reference -- either video or key poses from a textbook for the run cycle but just jumped into the computer and straight-aheaded the beginning?

I'm just guessing -- I'd be interested to hear how you went about doing it. It's how I learn too :)

Just curious -- you animated the character using FK arms right?

Good job overall -- I know you said you put this together very quickly.

* * *

We really do need to find a way to post these videos for quicktime download. Vimeo is driving me nuts because not only are you not able to scrub through the animation, you can't even click to a part of the timeline and hit play without starting from the beginning.
I'd love to really get in there and comment about what exactly need more overlap in the run but I really just can't pick out the specific details with it going so fast.

Anyway I'm hoping my comments at the least stir up some activity in the thread. I'd love to receive reverse comments about my critique from the animators. Helps me learn to critique better and you almost always end up learning something you can apply to your own work.

* * *

I'm off for now -- goodnight everyone!

The first part was actually the very last thing I did. I worked on the run/jump for a while and when I realized I still had a bit more free time I decided to try to add some acting to the begining. It ended up being worked on the least and my idea on what I wanted wasn't really solid and so it kind of wondered between a bored pose and an impatient (waiting for something/someone). So yea... it shows.

The run.... We've been doing run cycles in class lately and I think that's the reason it turned out half decent since I've been in that mindset lately (and have had a decent amount of practice). A problem I've been having with all the runs I've been doing is putting too many keyframes in the legs, which is causing it to be jittery at some parts.

I do tend to animate straight ahead which is a habbit I've tried to break but haven't been successful in. Also with the run I did a lot of posing in my room to see how it would look, but for other parts I did a lot of trying to figure it out in my head. I now see acting it out in person definately helps to make it look better, and it's something I'll definately be doing more.

My vocab knowledge is a little bad so I'm not sure what you mean by FK, but the arms are set up so that the shoulder is the parent to the bicep which is the parent for the forearm, etc. but I stil have to rotate/position each section individually in each keyframe. Legs were Reverse IK.

If you want to scrub through it I have it uploaded here: http://users.edinboro.edu/k025614m/movies/runsave.mov

I really appriciate you taking the time to write that up, thanks!

sipone
03-05-2008, 08:37 AM
hi all

for challenge #15

Audio: jedijrmax.

Non-Audio: Flashmario
and congrats to all participants, there was good results


for the next challenge:

Non-Audio:
Impatiently waiting in line.
Audio:
Pulp Fiction

jedijrmax
03-06-2008, 12:58 AM
No problem Vesty -- I'll send you some more comments now that I can scrub through it. But, with just one quick scrub I can see that there is no visable overlap in the wrists at all during the run which is at least partially why it made me think it was a bit stiff.

Sir Ron -- and maybe that's the solution for posting each month -- that in addition to posting on Vimeo, if you are really looking to receive detailed crits from others you just need to find to find the host yourself -- whether it be your own personal webspace, webspace from your college/university, or finding someone that would be willing to host it for you for a couple of days.

SirRon
03-06-2008, 05:35 PM
I'll put the new challenge up today when I get a break from work. :) Thanks for waiting.

edit: Thanks for the comments jedijrmax! I'll get back to you on your thoughts. I hadn't thought of finding some other place to host this, but my initial thought on it is that I don't think I'm capable of getting that kind of setup. That's just my initial response, I'm not saying that I'll never do it, I'll look into it though. More later.

SirRon
03-06-2008, 10:16 PM
Ok, new challenge up! http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?p=4996869#post4996869

Just give me another day to make the front page plug graphic and we should get a lot more hits on the challenge. The more people know about it the more animators we get.


We really do need to find a way to post these videos for quicktime download. Vimeo is driving me nuts because not only are you not able to scrub through the animation, you can't even click to a part of the timeline and hit play without starting from the beginning.
I'd love to really get in there and comment about what exactly need more overlap in the run but I really just can't pick out the specific details with it going so fast.

Anyway I'm hoping my comments at the least stir up some activity in the thread. I'd love to receive reverse comments about my critique from the animators. Helps me learn to critique better and you almost always end up learning something you can apply to your own work.


The reason why I picked Vimeo is that as long as you're registered and logged in you can download the original file be it .avi or .mov. It's below the 'statistics' information on the video page. I was able to download your .avi and use quicktime to open it. Scrubs your anim just fine. And your comments are stirring up some activity, I really appreciate that :D

I did find the issue with the links not going to the right place. It was my end that was bad, I didn't change the right numbers in the url. It's fixed now.

I'm a n00b when it comes to managing a website. I would like to have a setup like what 10 second club had. What seemed to work out in the past was people posting their works in progress in the challenge thread. Back when I had a lot more time (before having a job) I posted everything from my thumbnails to every stage I did the animation when I changed the tangents from stepped, linear and splined.

rahulmehta
03-17-2008, 08:50 PM
HI ALL ,

i have posted my pre animation for CGTALK--Animation Acting Challenge #16 (http://www.vimeo.com/795284) into this link .. pls chk and give me feedback on it ...
waiting for your valuable comments ...

Regards ..
rahulmehta5@gmail.com

http://www.vimeo.com/795284

www.freewebs.com/lalitrahulmehta (http://www.freewebs.com/lalitrahulmehta/)

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