New 8Core MacPro-3.2Ghz, 8800 GT Crashes!

[Dtox]

Not sure, but I seem to remember there being talk around here that the 8800GT has issues with cinema.
No reason to think that it's due to still having cinema 10.1.

Do a forum search on the card.

[ooo]

I have the same setup and will see if I can test it later today. I've only been testriding so far.

The problems Dtox mentions are for the PC version of the card if I remember well. Mac version is only two weeks available so it's just pioneering here :)

odo

HMMM, checking out http://barefeats.com/harper8.html I was shocked that the 8800 is by far the best gaming card on Mac but when it comes to Pro apps it is performing very poor! Do we need optimised drivers or new firmware? Not happy :(

[al35mm]

I'm not a mac user, but I have just ordered a new comp with an 8800gtx, and I use c4d, so I have a vested interest here! The lightwave guys, and others seem to be raving about the 8800, so not sure what the issue is with c4d, but I know that Nvidia have had some driver compatibility issues with their new cards, for example, a lot of pc users have been unable to use quicktime when embedded in internet explorer with the new cards. Nvidia and QT have been blaming each other for the cause of the problem.

You could try using some older drivers for now.

[Newstream]

Hi,

I have the same setup except a 2.8Ghz instead. Hmm... Are you using memory from a third party vendor?

Cheers / Alex

[Rochr]

Not a Mac user either, but i run a system with ASUS 8800GT with C4D 10.5. So far it has worked like a charm with absolutely no issues.

I´ve also heard about issues with Quicktime, but my only problem with these two combined have been Quicktime taking over every image format on the system. It ran fine though for the short period i had it installed. :)

[imagefact]

Badtastic:

Yes, I have extra RAM from Other World Computing. I doubt that is the problem. But are you saying that your machine works or doesn't work? - you didn't say.

Thanks for the responses so far. I'm considering this a sctrictly Mac problem at the moment, not PC, since the two systems, drivers, etc are completely different from each other.

Still searching...

[GrahamWilson]

I have a week-old Mac Pro 8-core 2.8ghz with the 8800GT card too. I need to try the preview to see if it crashes. However, I've noticed that the card has redraw problems on my main screen. It refreshes slowly, and leaves window artifacts behind in the Finder. I have one screen running at 1920x1080 and a second screen at 1600x1200. I've applied the Leopard graphics update, but that didn't do much.

I haven't had a chance to run Cinema 4D through its paces yet. The card is a bit of a letdown. I also have another Mac Pro with the 2800XT ATI card, so I'll check that one as well.

Thanks
Graham

[Rochr]

Not a Mac user either, but i run a system with ASUS 8800GT with C4D 10.5

Forget what i said. It was a 8800GTS. Wrong card...

[joeski4d]

I had a very similar problem with Cinema crashing during a OGL preview render after upgrading to R10. I believe it was the R10.111 update that fully resolved the issue.

I'm running a MacPro Quad 2.6-

[Newstream]

Badtastic:

Yes, I have extra RAM from Other World Computing. I doubt that is the problem. But are you saying that your machine works or doesn't work? - you didn't say.

Thanks for the responses so far. I'm considering this a sctrictly Mac problem at the moment, not PC, since the two systems, drivers, etc are completely different from each other.

Still searching...

Sorry for the delayed answer
(I was stuck in Berlin) Well, speaking from experience the memory I received from OWC transformed my lovely new 2008-Mac Pro into a crashtastic, kernel panicking heap of.. (insert expletive here). In the end, I was forced to remove the memory modules and send them back to OWC. Although now limited to 2GB, without them, the machine is rock-solid.

The symptoms you described led me to believe that you might also have had the misfortune of receiving a faulty memory module? maybe displaying ECC errors? I dunno.. just a wild stab in the dark.

Cheers / Alex

[noseman]

I have stressed this fact many times on this forum.
From personal experience, mac's are VERY sensitive to RAM.
Some times it is not due to defective RAM chips, but for some reason, some RAM chips don't get along with other RAM chips, sometimes even if they are all identical.

So, as Badtastic correctly states, strip your ram to a basic chip (the fewer the better) and run the same crash-prone workflow again. Then switch to another basic chip and do it again.
If during the procedure you get a setup that doesn't crash, then it's DEFINATELY a RAM chip problem.
Don't run RAM check programs, because that doesn't find anything else than defective RAM.
Sometimes it can work with one set, it can work with another set, but if you put them together it crashes... go figure.

DEMAND from your vendor a replacement set.

I hope it's a RAM problem, because it's easier to fix.
good luck

[wbj]

I have stressed this fact many times on this forum.
From personal experience, mac's are VERY sensitive to RAM.
Some times it is not due to defective RAM chips, but for some reason, some RAM chips don't get along with other RAM chips, sometimes even if they are all identical.

So, as Badtastic correctly states, strip your ram to a basic chip (the fewer the better) and run the same crash-prone workflow again. Then switch to another basic chip and do it again.
If during the procedure you get a setup that doesn't crash, then it's DEFINATELY a RAM chip problem.

That would just prove, that the bug can't be reproduced in this specific configuration, which can also happen due to different RAM usage (VM memory usage, cache access) when using less memory.

The first thing you should check, is the crashreport (either the one generated by Apple's crashreporter or Cinema's _bugreport.txt). If the crash happens inside of the ligGL.dylib, it 's most likely a software bug (either in Apple's GL driver or in Cinema/one of the plugins). In this case you should upgrade your Cinema version (use at least 10.111 which is a free upgrade for r10 users).

Only if you also experience frequently crashes in other applications, that handle great amount of data (e.g.Photoshop), you should consider to have a problem with your RAM chips.

Best regards,

wbj

[3DBond]

HMMM, checking out http://barefeats.com/harper8.html I was shocked that the 8800 is by far the best gaming card on Mac but when it comes to Pro apps it is performing very poor! Do we need optimised drivers or new firmware? Not happy :(
I just read that same post. It really is disappointing, especially after waiting 4 extra weeks for my machine and paying an extra couple hundred dollars.

[ooo]

I worked on my MacPro3.2 8800 (16gb ram OWC) today with C4D 10.5 and everything runs just fine. No crashes, but eOpenGl viewport redraw can take some time (on heavy scenes).

odo

[GrahamWilson]

After searching for some answers to the problems I'm having with my MacPro and its 8800 GT card, I've found some other discussions on the Apple support boards. It looks like the DVI-2 port is running MUCH slower than the DVI-1 port. As I wrote above, I've been having all sorts of slowdowns and screen artifacting, but after switching cables and testing, it follows the ports. The DVI-2 port is having problems, and other people are reporting it. I'm not sure if this is directly related to the Quicktime problem you're having, but there are obviously some hardware/driver issues that are making a mess of things with these new 8800 GT cards.

Thanks
Graham

[51M0N]

Actually I have the same problem, can't preview open gl, can't render open gl, and the same problem happens in maya as well!
I'm using a macbook pro with 8600gt open gl, and I haven't used anything custom hardware-wise.
I expected this to be a drivers problem but after reading here this might not be the issue...
Memory will be hard to check, since apple support in my country is really really bad, and that would mean sending my work computer away for months.
Any other ideas would be most appreciated.

[MulaG]

Sorry for the delayed answer
(I was stuck in Berlin) Well, speaking from experience the memory I received from OWC transformed my lovely new 2008-Mac Pro into a crashtastic, kernel panicking heap of.. (insert expletive here). In the end, I was forced to remove the memory modules and send them back to OWC. Although now limited to 2GB, without them, the machine is rock-solid.

The symptoms you described led me to believe that you might also have had the misfortune of receiving a faulty memory module? maybe displaying ECC errors? I dunno.. just a wild stab in the dark.

Cheers / Alex

Oh dear I've just ordered a new mac pro too - Two 2.8GHz Quad-Core with the NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT. I hope I don't run into the same problems as you guys.

Alex does that mean you are not going to add any extra memory?

[AdamT]

FYI, I'm using Viking memory purchased from Newegg in my Quad 3 GHz with no issues.

[acid2002]

No probs here 2x 2.8 Ghz Quad core ram from MrMemory.

Make sure you configure the ram modules properly check the manual.


D

[Newstream]

Oh dear I've just ordered a new mac pro too - Two 2.8GHz Quad-Core with the NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT. I hope I don't run into the same problems as you guys.

Alex does that mean you are not going to add any extra memory?


Well, I'm forced to add new memory because right now, complex scenes are bringing this expensive new 2GB Mac Pro to its knees. Screen redraw with the 8800 is appalling when compared to the performance of my old 7800gtx on windows XP with 2GB (which has now left the building) Hopefully the OWC memory replacement will be problem-free when it arrives in a week or two. In the meantime, I was forced to panic-order half the memory memory from a local Apple reseller here in Stockholm at twice the price in order to continue working and delivering stuff. It hasn't arrived yet so we'll see if its any good.

Dont mean to sound overly negative or anything but at the moment (and from a production point of view) C4D on the Mac Pro with only 2GB combined with the annoying Open / Close C4D / Leopard dialogue box bug (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=47&t=598919) and mysteriously mediocre redraw performance (for complex scenes) is proving to be one of my most expensive mistakes. However, this will hopefully change once this machine gets fitted with some decent memory sticks, It would also be nice if the third party memory didn't cause the Mac Pro to crash 43 seconds after boot up.

Cheers / Alex

[GrahamWilson]

Try swapping your monitor cables. After some testing, I've found that the DVI-2 port is much slower. In fact, if you plug a single monitor into the DVI-2 port and try to run Motion, it will stop and stay that this video card does not support Quartz Extreme. Something is wrong with the drivers on this card. For now, make sure that your primary display is plugged into the DVI-1 port.

Thanks
Graham

[joeski4d]

This article might be of some interest to MacPro owners in regards to the video card options:

http://www.macworld.com/article/132268/2008/02/nvidiageforce8800gt.html

[ooo]

Well, I'm forced to add new memory because right now, complex scenes are bringing this expensive new 2GB Mac Pro to its knees. Screen redraw with the 8800 is appalling when compared to the performance of my old 7800gtx on windows XP with 2GB (which has now left the building) Hopefully the OWC memory replacement will be problem-free when it arrives in a week or two. In the meantime, I was forced to panic-order half the memory memory from a local Apple reseller here in Stockholm at twice the price in order to continue working and delivering stuff. It hasn't arrived yet so we'll see if its any good.

Dont mean to sound overly negative or anything but at the moment (and from a production point of view) C4D on the Mac Pro with only 2GB combined with the annoying Open / Close C4D / Leopard dialogue box bug (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=47&t=598919) and mysteriously mediocre redraw performance (for complex scenes) is proving to be one of my most expensive mistakes. However, this will hopefully change once this machine gets fitted with some decent memory sticks, It would also be nice if the third party memory didn't cause the Mac Pro to crash 43 seconds after boot up.

Cheers / Alex

Really sorry to hear about your problems. My 8x2gb from OWC is problemfree so far. But as I mentioned before I'm a bit surprised by the "slow" screen redraw with complex scenes (8800). Maybe I had too high expectations from the 8800. But nevertheless it's still way way better than my G5 quad with 7800GT. So I hope that OGL can be optimised with an update from whoever is responsible. So good luck with your new RAM!

odo

[ooo]

This article might be of some interest to MacPro owners in regards to the video card options:

http://www.macworld.com/article/132268/2008/02/nvidiageforce8800gt.html

For games the 8800 is top notch as Macworld tested but for pro apps the performance is not what it should be (already posted this link): http://barefeats.com/harper8.html
So again I wonder who is to blame or is the card itself the culprit?

odo

[Newstream]

Really sorry to hear about your problems. My 8x2gb from OWC is problemfree so far. But as I mentioned before I'm a bit surprised by the "slow" screen redraw with complex scenes (8800). Maybe I had too high expectations from the 8800. But nevertheless it's still way way better than my G5 quad with 7800GT. So I hope that OGL can be optimised with an update from whoever is responsible. So good luck with your new RAM!

odo


Hey, thanks for the kind words Odo.
I'm pretty sure everything's going to work out fine in the end. Purchasing Apple hardware in the past has always been problem-free so statistically there's bound to be a first time. :) Just need to get all the functioning bits and pieces together, then I'm good to go.

The lesson from this experience is that one can be vulnerable when switching hardware + OS platforms especially in the middle of projects and deadlines. if Apple didn't overprice their memory there wouldn't be the need to go through all the third party memory hoops. Anyhow, I'm glad to hear things are running smoothly your end.

Cheers / Alex

[tcastudios]

Hm, so do we have any happy camper using the stock ATI card (with the new MacPro's)
that think it's running as it should in Cinema?

In the midst of budgeting for new machines and as I usually get them in pairs it looks as if
it might be a good idea to have one of each card.

Cheers
Lennart

[JoelOtron]

So whats the best option for video card? I was buying the 8 core shortly and need to know. I have heard very bad reviews on the 5600 on the macpro--lots of bugs. All thats left is ATI 2600 which I havent heard one good thing about yet. I was initially hearing lots of glowing reviews on the 8800.

[Shademaster]

So whats the best option for video card? I was buying the 8 core shortly and need to know. I have heard very bad reviews on the 5600 on the macpro--lots of bugs. All thats left is ATI 2600 which I havent heard one good thing about yet. I was initially hearing lots of glowing reviews on the 8800.

Used the 7300gt in a macpro dual 2.66 on old job, I just received my new octo with 8800gt. So far it has been great! OGL is slightly faster and I have not encountered the OpenGL bugs.

So far I am really glad I chose the 8800 gt and not something else, I never encountered any weird unexplainable OGL or video related issues. OpenGL support has been perfect for me, I am reading some of the problems here and tried to recreate them to no avail.

Anyway, it's down to you. I suggest browsing the www.macrumors.com fora. There are some great user stories and debunks over there. If there is some weird Mac hardware related problem there is the place to learn more about it.

[acid2002]

Hm, so do we have any happy camper using the stock ATI card (with the new MacPro's)
that think it's running as it should in Cinema?

In the midst of budgeting for new machines and as I usually get them in pairs it looks as if
it might be a good idea to have one of each card.

Cheers
Lennart
Hello

Stock ATI 2600 8 core macpro 2.8ghz 6GB ram all working great with 10.111 and leopard 10.5.2
Here are my CB scores:
CB Single 3253
CB Multi 18742

Open GL 6372

Derek

[JoelOtron]

Used the 7300gt in a macpro dual 2.66 on old job, I just received my new octo with 8800gt. So far it has been great! OGL is slightly faster and I have not encountered the OpenGL bugs.

So far I am really glad I chose the 8800 gt and not something else, I never encountered any weird unexplainable OGL or video related issues. OpenGL support has been perfect for me, I am reading some of the problems here and tried to recreate them to no avail.

Anyway, it's down to you. I suggest browsing the www.macrumors.com fora. There are some great user stories and debunks over there. If there is some weird Mac hardware related problem there is the place to learn more about it.

THANKS shademaster--thats what I wanted to hear.

[imagefact]

Hey gang, thanks for all the responses to my original post. I see several systems are having this problem - NOT just my original post:

Let's be very clear here. This is NOT a viewport problem. OGL works FINE there. This problem only relates to when you make a render using the "Make Preview..." command. No problem doing regular renders. If you choose the mode to be "OpenGL" for this preview render - you immediately crash. No matter how small a scene is open.

I've now seen this crash in the following systems:

1 - Jan/Feb 2008 model 8-core machine, 3.2ghz. I have 2 gigs built in Ram from Apple and Two 1-gig chips from Other World Computing. I am running C4d version 10.111 and Leopard 10.5.2 - I have all the latest system upgrades from Apple.

2 - My 17" Dualcore intel laptop running Tiger 10.4.11 - 2 gigs of Ram.

3 - A G5 Quad, Tiger 10.4.11, 2.5 gigs of Ram. WITH THE 1900 graphics card upgrade. If I take out that graphics card and put back the original stock card I DON"T get the crash!

So. I can conclude from the above the following:

A) It can crash in Tiger as well as Leopard, so this is not system specific.
B) C4d 10.111 Can work, but so far not on my intel machines.
C) Depending on the graphics card, I get a crash.

That's all I can conclude from what computers I have here. Other input welcome!

QUESTIONS:

A very few people have said OGL is working for them - but you guys weren't very specific if you meant that "It works in general" - OR can you please post if it "Works specifically when trying to make an OGL preview render." I think this is a type of render many people don't even know exist, or don't use. So I want to be very clear and know if it is working or not on other peoples systems. If it does work for you, My question then is:

A) Are you running leopard 10.5.2 - or what are you running?
B) Which version of C4D are you running?
C) What graphics card are you using?
D) You computer specs (What machine)
E) Please state that you specifically ran a test trying to make an OGL preview movie (This problem is NOT in the viewports).

Oy, sorry - don't mean to be pedantic. Just trying to be clear and get to the bottom of this problem. I will try to pull my Ram and see if that makes a difference. But I doubt that it is the culprit here.

[tcastudios]

Oy, sorry - don't mean to be pedantic. Just trying to be clear and get to the bottom of this problem.

Don't be:) Any info at this point for many of us making an investment is all good.
I recognize the OGL Preview rendering crash -earlier- (pre 10.5 I think).
Haven't checked recently.

It is good to know the issue -seems- to be the OGL rendering only(?).
I wasn't aware of the and thought it was a general OGL problem (in viewport)

It looks though that both the ATI and the nvidia card are running fine for some folks.
I would prefere to continue using nvidia, but that is atm just a gut feeling....


Cheers
Lennart

[kmdguy]

For record I can reproduce this OGL Preview render crash on both of my new Mac Pros...

Mac Pro, dual quad 3.2 Ghz
OSX version 10.5.2
4 MB RAM (2 factory, 2 Kingston)
Nvidia 8800GT
30"Cinema Display
C4D version 10.5.2, virgin install, nothing else on these systems, brand new out of the box

Like Imagefact said, the OGL works great in the viewport and everything that I can tell works awesome, but indeed, trying to generate an OGL Preview render with the simplest of animations (a sphere moving from right to left) creates an error and a shut down.

Is this a deal breaker? No, not at all. I personally don't use OGL for preview renders too much and aside from this I haven't found any other bugs. Things are cooking with gas on these systems and next week I'll have another 100 Xeon cores online for the farm.

[bdjones]

Mac Pro, dual quad 2.8 Ghz
OSX version 10.5.2
2 MB RAM (factory)
ATI HD 2600 XT
23"Cinema Display, 19" NEC
C4D version 10.506

No problem with OGL preview - at least with a simple test scene. No problems with the second monitor (not that I expect to see any, that seems restricted to the NVidia cards judging by the feedback).

I'm curious what sort of numbers come out of Cinebench with the 8800? My numbers are very similar to acid2002's (Derek) number's

Rendering (Single CPU): 3238 CB-CPU
Rendering (Multiple CPU): 18754 CB-CPU
Shading (OpenGL Standard): 6064 CB-GFX

I uploaded that with Mash at 3DFluff but he hasn't posted anything recently apparently so no comparisons are available there.

[acid2002]

Mac Pro, dual quad 2.8 Ghz
OSX version 10.5.2
2 MB RAM (factory)
ATI HD 2600 XT
23"Cinema Display, 19" NEC
C4D version 10.506

No problem with OGL preview - at least with a simple test scene. No problems with the second monitor (not that I expect to see any, that seems restricted to the NVidia cards judging by the feedback).

I'm curious what sort of numbers come out of Cinebench with the 8800? My numbers are very similar to acid2002's (Derek) number's

Rendering (Single CPU): 3238 CB-CPU
Rendering (Multiple CPU): 18754 CB-CPU
Shading (OpenGL Standard): 6064 CB-GFX

I uploaded that with Mash at 3DFluff but he hasn't posted anything recently apparently so no comparisons are available there.


Hi
I uploaded my CB scores to the Mash site a couple of weeks ago but nothing showing.


Derek

[kmdguy]

Here's my CB info on this new system:

Mac Pro, dual quad 3.2 Ghz
OSX version 10.5.2
4 MB RAM (2 factory, 2 Kingston)
Nvidia 8800GT
30"Cinema Display

Rendering 1 CPU: 3682
Rendering 8 CPU: 21221
OpenGL Standard: 6776 CB-GFX

[Newstream]

Update:

Today, I received an additional 4GB of Kingston ram (now total 6GB total) from a local reseller. The earlier 8800GT redraw problems I was experiencing with large scenes have improved significantly. In fact, to the point where I ought to make a complete U-turn on my initial comments and qualms about the 8800GT. It's actually damn good value for money and with enough RAM to digest heavy scenes its a good performer.
Just thought I'd set the record straight.

Cheers / Alex

[imagefact]

Ok - so by Dan's input, since he is using C4D 10.5.2, we can surmise that this is NOT a 10.111 problem only.

But since the 2600 seems to be working, this may be an NVidia/C4d problem. My 17" Laptop is an Nvidia GeForce8500GT

More inputs from folks would be great to hear!

-Evan

[ooo]

Ok I now understand what you wrote so I tested it again: preview OpenGL gives indeed an instant crash. MacPro with 8800 10.5.2 and R10.5

I never use this preview render option so it doesn't bother me too much at the moment, but it might be a symptom of a deeper problem with the 8800 and C4D?.

odo

[JoelOtron]

This is good to know. I too could live with this--however this is something I actually use a lot (preview ogl renders).
Good for blocking in shots when doing animatics. But I suppose I could render from the renderer in ogl mode--not as good as the enhanced ogl preview render--but should work.

[imagefact]

It would be interesting to see which is faster, an OGL preview or a low rez, simply shaded regular render, on an 8core mac. But since I can't do an OGL render I can't try it.

I have used the preview OGL renders for quick movement tests since they've been significantly faster than regular renders. Now that my framerate on the 8800 is faster in the viewport, I find I need this less, but there still comes a point where a project gets bogged down and the option is nice to have.

Is this a deal breaker? No. But it would be nice to have a fix for something we've had in the past. Going backwards is always a pain.

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