Shand Mason Steam Fire Engine

[FallenSwordsman]

This is looking very good. Because of the technical drawing aspect of it, its hard to tell its CG. The textures look great so far.
Best of luck with it:)

[Clanger]

FallenSwordsman: Thanks for the encouragement, I will play with the textures all the way to the end.

Small update, I've started roughing out the steam engine proper. Most of the time is spent trying to work out what the hell's going on in there.
I have complete plans but it's mostly a collection of bits, the GA dosen't show everything so working out what goes where is fun!

http://www.rgore.plus.com/CGTalk/Shand/Shand-WIP-02.jpg

[FallenSwordsman]

I wouldn't even know where to start with this - how are you getting the technical detail of what goes where inside the thing? Its a nice break away from the normal CG stuff as well - I like the old steam engines. Nice update!

BTW - are you coming along to the big meet up thing?

http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=56049

[Clanger]

FallenSwordsman: I have the plans too build a working scale model of it. Produced by Nexus Plans Service. They have tons of the things; mostly steam trains and traction engines.
Never looked to see if they have a web page though.

The big meet up? Just looked, I had no idea this was going on. If I can I'll definitely go.

[Clanger]

Update:
Still playing with the textures.

http://www.rgore.plus.com/CGTalk/Shand/Shand-WIP-03.jpg

[FallenSwordsman]

Looking good, Clanger - this is playing with textures?:surprised
Just a quick question - how have you managed to achieve the reflections in the brass seen most clearly at the top of the funnel and the top of the cylinder? Is it HDRI or some other method you're using?
Great work though - a long way to go, but looking good so far:beer:

[mmiller]

Clanger

VERY nice work :thumbsup:
Great choice of subject.
I'd like to model an American Steam Locomotive one of these days.

I'm particularly happy to see another tech Illustrator posting here.
Is it just me, or are there amazingly few people doing this kind of work.

One suggestion
When you get to the point where you are rendering out external views you might want to play with some weathered texture maps.
Rust/grime/oil/grease/ etc... lots of fun

in the tech illustration field you just about never get to explore this sort of thing.

What software are you using?
Mark

[Clanger]

FallenSwordsman :
Good guess, yes I've used HDRI on last render. Turned off all the lights and just used the background, the bonus is I've halved the render time! Didn't expact that.

mmiller:

Yes, not too many Tech Illustrators anywhere. seems to be a dying art. Well, I'm finding it very difficult to hunt out the commissions these days.

It would be very nice to include all the grunge but the thought of UV mapping everthing so it could be done!!!!!!!! I do intend giving it a go on a simpler model though.

I want to do a train as well, my favorite is the Mallard. but the plans cost around 100 uk pounds whats that? About 130ish dollars. One day though. I keep promising myself to visit model engineering shows to see if I can pick up secondhand plans.

Software is Max.

[Clanger]

mmiller:
Just checked out your web site, very nice. WW1 airplanes a favorite subject of mine. would love to do one myself but I would just have to cutaway the engine and I've never seen the reference to do this. Must exist.

Update:
I've changed the angle hopfully now you can see the engine better.

http://www.rgore.plus.com/CGTalk/Shand/Shand-WIP-04.jpg

[Baal]

No updates ? C'mon, give us some more to see ! :wip: :wip: :wip:

[Clanger]

Baal :
You shouldn't have to wait long, just arrived back from holiday 10mins ago! After I've waded through the several forests turned into junk mail on my doorstep and delt with the 500 emails (don't know why but there's so many girls who want to show me things?) I'll be getting straight back to work, the break has got my very keen to get going again and there should be a new challenge for me not to finish as well.

[BiTMAP]

the red surface of where you've cut away looked much nicer (in my opinion) as the orange, perhaps try that again? (it seems too impending as it is) btw, your work is wonderful :D my brother will LOVE to see this when its done!

[Clanger]

BiTMAP: I've toned the red down, maybe too much? It's important it stands out clear.

Only a small update the difference is the pump block below the pistons I had some fun making it the plans had given wrong measurments so things didn't fit!!! Cost me 20 UK pounds for them Grrrrr....

Now that's out of the way I hope things will speed up.

http://www.rgore.plus.com/CGTalk/Shand/Shand-WIP-05.jpg

[Error404]

Nice detail so far :)

[mmiller]

Originally posted by Clanger
BiTMAP: I've toned the red down, maybe too much? It's important it stands out clear.

Yeah, you lose the cut line in the fire.
But, it does look better toned down.
Maybe you could just intensify the red in the area where it is next to the fire and leave the rest alone.

looking good :thumbsup:
Mark

[Clanger]

mmiller: I think what I'll have to do is fix things like lost edges in Photoshop right at the very end.

Latest Update:

http://www.rgore.plus.com/CGTalk/Shand/Shand-WIP-06.jpg

[azazel]

Great, I love that kind of illustrations ;) Keep it up:thumbsup:

[Clanger]

Update:
The engine is just about done, now I'm having fun with the plumbing.

http://www.rgore.plus.com/CGTalk/Shand/Shand-WIP-07.jpg

[FallenSwordsman]

This is coming along really well - what a great piece of illustrative work. I think the fixes you've made are excellent and it just looks like you can reach out and touch it. Fascinating to see the insides too. Great work, Clanger!

[Clanger]

Thanks, E=mc² & FallenSwordsman

Latest render, the copper looks far too pink will fix, not too happy about the red paint either.

http://www.rgore.plus.com/CGTalk/Shand/Shand-WIP-08.jpg

[unLevel]

wow, cool!

:eek: :beer: :buttrock: :thumbsup:

[mmiller]

Originally posted by Clanger
Latest render, the copper looks far too pink will fix, not too happy about the red paint either.

I believe it is too shiny/reflective as well.
But, this project is looking great :thumbsup:

Mark

[Clanger]

mmiller: I've tried to tone down the Pink but it won't go away, will be more harsh latter. Reduced the reflection on the copper as well. Still don't like the red paint!!!
Never mind I've a lot of renders to go before I'm finished.

http://www.rgore.plus.com/CGTalk/Shand/Shand-WIP-09.jpg

[FallenSwordsman]

Ah - wheels - and the addition of the dials and extra piping! You're really starting to pull this one together. Taking shape nicely! The only comment I can make is about the back wheel furthest away from the viewer - seems to have some problem with a reflection which is making one of the spokes waaay too white to the point its turning invisible against the backdrop. :)

[Clanger]

FallenSwordsman: Yes, The red paint isn't catching the light as I'd like, it's a bit better now though.

http://www.rgore.plus.com/CGTalk/Shand/Shand-WIP-10.jpg

[digital NUT]

Wow, your textures are amazing! Good job!!:thumbsup:

[Clanger]

Nearly There.

http://www.rgore.plus.com/CGTalk/Shand/Shand-WIP-11.jpg

[Clanger]

Just a little bit closer

http://www.rgore.plus.com/CGTalk/Shand/Shand-WIP-12.jpg

[FallenSwordsman]

Well you're nearly there now! You said at the start of this thread that if you had the stamina you might do the horses and firemen as well although as its a technical illustration its difficult to see how you would include them. But have you got the stamina, or is it still just purely technical? Looking great though - must be a bonus that you're so close to the end as well.

[Clanger]

FallenSwordsman : I would like to put the horses in, mostly because I've never built a horse before but I will have a break and do something else before coming back to it, I don't have the reference right now as to how the horses are set up.

As to the Firemen? Jury's still out, there is a fire brigade museum in London I might just go along and see what inspiration I can come up with.

[MaxParticle]

Very refreshing to see something that's not futuristic, and you've captured the look beautifully! :thumbsup:

[Clanger]

Well, Last test render :)
I'm now going to set it off on a monster res render, bit of Photoshop and that's it. Look for the results sometime next week in the Finished Gallery.

The Question is:
Ghost the wheel or not?

http://www.rgore.plus.com/CGTalk/Shand/Shand-WIP-13.jpg

[FallenSwordsman]

You could always try both - ghosted wheel and non ghosted and see what people think when you stick it in the final works. Personally I think the ghosted wheel would be better, just so you can see the inner workings a bit better. This has been a great project to watch though and I'm glad you managed to stick to it right til the end. Well done!:thumbsup:

[mmiller]

Clanger
This is definitely a VERY nice looking illustration.

But, from a tech illustration point of view, I believe you have some clarity issues with your cutaway. The main problem being that the color of your cut blends in with the real structures.
You recognised this difficulty a while back when the red of the fire was the problem and now with the red painted elements it has become more of a difficulty.
perhaps if you shifted the hue of the cutline more towards the purple side it might help.
I wonder if you could get away with using an entirely different color. I know it's not done, but...

Have you tried alternate orientations?
It is difficult to predict what kind of other problems will arise, but I'm thinking a view slightly more from the rear might help make the cuts more understandable.

also
Is your model set up so that you could render it out whole - without the cut away?
I think it would look pretty great that way as well.
plus
If you could then render the internal stuff seperately you could generate a ghosted view by loading them up in seperate levels in photoshop.
This is how I generated the ghosted view here:
http://www.wwi-models.org/Images/Miller/render/Albatros/albghost2.jpg

of course this method has it's own advantages and disadvantages. I think it provides a better general idea of what's going on as well as being a little "prettier"
But, the traditional hard cut does provide more exact information.
just something you might want to play around with ;)

as for the wheel
I would say yes - ghost it out
I would also consider ghosting out - or completely eliminating that wheel that seems to be floating in front of the part of the boiler you cut away.

well...
just some stuff you might want to consider.

mark

[Clanger]

FallenSwordsman:

I think with mmiller saying as well ghosted it is.

mmiller:

The cut edge is definately a problem, I'm going to render a mask of it so I can play with all colours in PShop.
I've been very lazy with building this, move slightly and there's bits missing! This started out as a test exercise, it's more than lived up to this as I've learnt loads.
Wait for the next one 'Evening Star'
This one will be the full Monty. I'll plan it so I can get complete renders from any angle (thinking of nice pretty scenes)

Much like your excellent Albatros this time it will be heavly ghosted.
I'll want 2 side on flat renders as well, one complete one cut in half.
I might think of exploded as well.

Thanks Guy's for your interest, I'm sure without it it would have ended up in the I'll finish sometime bin.

[Clanger]

Final has been posted in the 'Finished Gallery'
http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=77059

Didn't get to do all the things I wanted, it took 2 weeks of weekends and nights to render a high res (5000 pixels)!!! So any changes now would be very painful. Until I get my quad Xeon that is: I can dream can't I?

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