Autodesk Future Directions

[GQ1]

Any news or road map on Mudbox 2.0

Also will their be a modestly priced 3d app for staving artist, somewhere between XSI’s Foundation or Houdini's HD Apprentice?

[Baltasound]

No Maya news? :(

[FreakWizz]

Not sure if that really gave any insight on future directions, nor is it really an article.....
More an advertisement for Autodesk and Ballastic.

[Kai01W]

"Future directions" ???

Where is the content between all the marketing blah ?
Sorry for sounding rude... but this "article" answered very few questions.

-k

[Mazer]

"The Visualization user is as sophisticated as the Media & Entertainment user. But they will not want a 3ds Max program that has major skinning ability."

Oh yeah ? Thankyou for telling us what we need to do our work. It's very nice of you... Of course all we need is to read revit files isn't it? The fact that we never even saw one of these is trivial, since you now better... don´t you?

I gess it's time for us to consider our "future directions..."

Great litle "article" ....:deal:

[Limbus]

Nice commercial. :rolleyes:

[scrimski]

"Future directions" ???

Where is the content between all the marketing blah ?
Sorry for sounding rude... but this "article" answered very few questions.

Quoted for agreement.

[craiggulow]

Does Marc Petit really talk this way. . .


We did it using our core technology and that FBX.


Or is just sloppy editing. . ?


We’ll start seeing a lot of the power of the platform that make the characters walk, like in HumanIK, which was in Assassin’s Creed, that’s the code that works fine in this platform so you will see characters building very soon just by virtue of the technology.

[lo]

I've been trying hard to find a single piece of useful information in between the massive chunks of this Autodesk self promotion and ridiculously undeserved back patting.

Has anyone spotted it yet?

[Ruramuq]

The Visualization user is as sophisticated as the Media & Entertainment user.
I don't agree, not at all.

if you see, Autodesk is aimed to viz and arq, since always, they are trying to separate their products, and build bridges, "create dependencies" between their products, that's ideal for monopoly.

they are focusing in games too, in a minor sense

you cannot convince a company that has loved CAD, viz, etc, since always, to care about characters, animation,fx, etc. that's nosense with AD, besides they would need more resources to develop new technology, something that viz,arq, doesn't require.

pecuniary sad decisions

·

[Arcanox]

I guess there's only so much marketing folk can do to hype up a product. Either that or the senior VP is woefully unaware of how bad some of these latest release are. The future looks pretty bleak from what was featured in this article... which was absolutely nothing :p

[akeissami]

nevermind.

[AJ]

Does Marc Petit really talk this way. . .
I was going to say the exact same thing!

This is very important now, because we will build a whole lot more things on this data platform
:surprised

[spacefrog]

speaking of maya news...
maya unlimited price reduction......

http://nexgenviz.blogspot.com/2008/02/maya-unlimited-2008-price-reduction.html

[Leionaaad]

Hmm. what if I start a poll asking how do people feel about the future of autodesk products and how much innovation comes out from autodesk.
I didn't heared one person who cheers Autodesk. Do they see how people are reacting? There were a lot of negativism when they told us about 3ds max design 2009.
They keep pushing the marketing campaign agressivelylike they are desperate, or something.

[Als]

I have a feeling that autodesk is doing horible job at informing us.
They have this huge forum, why they don't use it in proper way.
Please have one spokeperson, and one place (web link) were we can look for important news. This seems too eratic and confusing.
Please make difference between users and the rest of the comunity.
They released news about max, without saying anything about maya, not even price reduction, is that truth?
I feel like on the last autodesk gathering I've been to.
Seating in the back row, waiting whole meeting while they were talking about how to use max to make games, while constantly repeating that max is not only for games.
In the last five minuts they mentioned, oh, we also have this thing called maya...
I just blame it on PR people, please have united front.
This reduction maya news should be BIG GREAT thing, but without saying anything more, it might sound scary - please we do need to know more.
It was same with maya 8.5 and 2008 releases.
Not enough information, makes us guessing...


Als

[CarlRiver]

speaking of maya news...
maya unlimited price reduction......

http://nexgenviz.blogspot.com/2008/02/maya-unlimited-2008-price-reduction.html
Thanks that was quite new to me although not really surprising. Seems that after SideEffects dumping the price for Houdini a treat Autodesk feels in need of doing the same to stay in the market. Nice for us.

The article only confirmed all the bad impressions I had of Autodesk. As stated by Petit himself Autodesk spent the last year mainly with aquiring other companies. Imho this monopolism is hardly a thing we can appreciate. Then what is this stuff about Max Design!? After all that aquiring they must really be in need of more cash. Other than that I have no explanation for this step.

Just my 2c

btw, Petit seems to be native French, so please stop complaining about his english.

[mackster]

I was kinda looking forward to hear some news regarding Mudbox 2.0 and the new upcoming features, but unfortunately no news what so ever. :shrug:

[mustique]

With recent aquisitions, there must be like two dozens of product managers
at AMAE, each having their own visions about the future of Maya/3dsmax.

You can't expect any vision let alone innovation under these circumstances.
Jos Stam and Duncan seem to be the only individuals left who try to do their best at AMAE.

I guess this explains why the marketing staff at AD is putting up such ridicoulus articles.
How should they know? What should they say?

I really miss the SGI - Alias/wavefront days, where Bill Buxton was orchestrating with great passion and SGI putting lots of effort and funds behind Maya.

The worst part is nobody at AD really seems to notice that there's a community other than investors. The long time users that created the community, the community that "created" the maya brand as it's perceived today.

I can't see where maya is heading. I want to see a "unified" roadmap of the nextgen thing and how AD is planning to orchestrate the transition for current users and studios.

Hey Autodesk... "Can you imagine?"

[ngrava]

No Maya news? :(

LOL! I hope your not expecting much. ;) The last two or three releases have been totally lackluster. Let me see if I can make some predictions:

New Features of Maya 2009

- Enhancements to NCloth.
- Refinements to Fluids.
- New FBIK enhancements.
- Major new workflow enhancements.
- Increased interoperability between Maya and 3DSMax and Mudbox.
- Major Open GL speed increase with new GLSL capabilities.
- Updated Vista and OS X 10.5 Leopard Support.
- Major rendering enhancements and capabilities.

Seriously though, what are you guys expecting. Autodesk has no intention of ever having to innovate again. That's why they keep buying other programs. For all intents and purposes, Maya is dead.

[Stevemoh]

I think they went green...or is it gone green. It's cool to go green! Is that copyrighted or can
anyone go green?

[Mazer]

Green like in dollar green ? They sure are green :D

[Szos]

Hmm. what if I start a poll asking how do people feel about the future of autodesk products and how much innovation comes out from autodesk.
I didn't heared one person who cheers Autodesk. Do they see how people are reacting? There were a lot of negativism when they told us about 3ds max design 2009.
They keep pushing the marketing campaign agressivelylike they are desperate, or something.

AutoDesk is one of the worst run software companies around - just below MS, in my opinion.

I have been an AutoDesk user for many years longer than most here, since I started in the CAD world. From what they have done there - and continue to do today - I know AD's motto:

"Buy up new customers by purchasing the competition, instead of earning new business by making a superior product"

[josecarlospoeiras]

Insted of correcting the endless list of bugs found on their relic software,
This face announces great innovation:

- keep the same old buggy software with new fashion cover.
- make a twin version with different name and different fashion cover.
- keep buying other small companies ideas to insert more and more plugins...

And because euros are tint with too many colors, they charge 10% extra money.



http://features.cgsociety.org/stories/2008_02/autodesk/images/Marc-Petit.jpg

"Autodesk is a healthy company and a very busy company. When I look back at last year, it was a year of consolidation and acquisitions.”


Corporation business isn't investigation !!!

[Sonk]

I was kinda looking forward to hear some news regarding Mudbox 2.0 and the new upcoming features, but unfortunately no news what so ever. :shrug:

QFA, and i doubt we'll hear anything about Mudbox 2.0 at GDC either. This silence is really killing me(though 3d-brush is damn good as a texturing app!). At this rate we won't get any information until Siggraph 2008...argh.

This "article" just confused me more about AutoBorg future directions even more.

[jupiterjazz]

I think they went green...or is it gone green. It's cool to go green! Is that copyrighted or can
anyone go green?

Oh no, it's not copyrighted... it's even copied from a memorable quote of DJ Ruby Rhod, which would say that there's nothing supergreen in adsk future directions. Bzzzz.

[ronaldomiranda]

New Features of Maya 2009

- Enhancements to NCloth.
- Refinements to Fluids.
- New FBIK enhancements.
- Major new workflow enhancements.
- Increased interoperability between Maya and 3DSMax and Mudbox.
- Major Open GL speed increase with new GLSL capabilities.
- Updated Vista and OS X 10.5 Leopard Support.
- Major rendering enhancements and capabilities.




LOL

That was really funny and real!

i just wondering when Maya skin tools will hit this Century :)

[trthing]

*YAWN*

What about *Past Directions*? Any plans? :rolleyes:

[cresshead]

i think autodesk need to sit still and NOT develop maya and max just for the time being...

give the other apps a chance to catch up...

maybe halt for 3-5years..should be enough for modo, xsi, lightwave etc to draw upto autodesk's coat tails and at least have a look at where autodesk has been dragging the rest of the industry along behind them:D

[Artbot]

Wow, you people are brutal (and funny!). But it's all justified. Why even bother linking to this info-less, marketing-driven press release?

Did you just need a diversion from all the recent "I don't know anything about this 3D stuff, but I want to learn it all and get a job doing it. Can anyone help me?" posts?

[mushroomgod]

Why even bother linking to this info-less, marketing-driven press release?


agree. totaly pointless article (can you even call it an article?). I suspect the only reason for the "fanfair" is because the article has a link to Balistic books in it....or maybe im just being too cynical :)

[imashination]

Don't articles normally have content? I thought it was random filler text to test a site layout when I started reading about preventing global warming and thinking of new ways to generate electricity.

[iskon]

Hey guys could someone show me where I can find any news in this article?:rolleyes:
As someone said another commercial for Autodesk.

[Kabab]

The direction Autodesk has gone with Maya 2008 has been pretty good imho...

Since 2008 came out they have released 2 extensions which have added considerable improvements, that never used to happen with Alias.

[fahr]

2 extentions?

I only know of the 1 with the muslcle system add-on.

What's the second extension, and did it come with bug fixes?

[Kabab]

2 extentions?

I only know of the 1 with the muslcle system add-on.

What's the second extension, and did it come with bug fixes?
Came out today i think

http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/item?siteID=123112&id=10358549&linkID=7679628

Maya 2008 Extension 2 New Feature Highlights



Polygon Modeling Workflow



Preselection Highlighting

Visual feedback, based on the proximity of the cursor, takes the guesswork out of selection, saving you an enormous amount of time. You can now see, simply by hovering your mouse over a component, what will be selected should you choose to click.



Soft Select for TRS

Soft selection enables you to efficiently translate, rotate, or scale regions of an object with adjustable fall off. Color feedback lets you see the precise impact the soft selection will have before an operation is performed. Because it is a weighted, selection-based paradigm, and not a deformer, soft selection supports a very natural workflow.



Tweak Mode

The addition of a new Tweak mode greatly streamlines the process of making fine adjustments to models and scenes. Rather than having to switch to the Move Tool and select individual components/objects to move, Tweak mode enables you to move what lies under the cursor with a single click, regardless of the tool (Select, Move, Rotate or Scale) you are currently using.

Symmetrical Modeling for TRS with Seam Preservation

The translate, rotate, and scale tools now offer improved support for reflection: components along the reflection axis may be locked to the plane of symmetry. This allows you to confidently make large-scale changes to your model, with operations like soft select, while maintaining symmetry.



Selection Management

In addition, Autodesk® Maya® 2008 Extension 2 delivers double-click selection of edge loops and shell faces, vertex selection performance improvements, movable marquee selection, and more.





Texturing Workflow



Region Preset

You can now layout your UVs within a specific region of the texture editor. Presets are available for the most common areas (quarters, eighths, etc.).



Prescale Option

You now have the option to preserve the scale of an object’s UVs as you simultaneously layout UVs for multiple objects of different sizes. This enables you to make more efficient use of texture space and ultimately improve runtime performance.



UV Snapping Improvements

During TRS operations, UVs and UV pivot points can now be snapped to the grid, other UVs, and texture pixels. Having the same level of efficient snapping functionality in the Texture Editor that you have in other areas of Maya improves productivity and shortens learning curves.



UV Discrete Rotate and Scale

UVs can now be rotated and scaled in discrete steps, giving you more precise control over the layout of your UVs and avoiding precision errors.





Maya Muscle



Smart Collisions

The Maya Muscle smart collision toolset enables you to simply paint shape changes based on joint orientation; plus it automatically handles skin self-collision. For example, the area around elbow and knee joints can be set so skin pinches, where appropriate, but does not interpenetrate, and muscles bulge and lengthen correctly as the joint moves. All this is possible without any elaborate setup; in fact, collisions can often create accurate skin behavior without the use of muscles or deformers.



Skin Displacement

Maya Muscle now gives you the ability to deform skin via displacement. Fine shaping of details (like veins or tendons) can either be controlled interactively by a curve, or applied as a texture map or mental ray® software shader in order to shift costly processing over to rendering, after creative iterations are complete.



New Forces

Precise control over three new forces—gravity, wind, and noise—lets you create highly realistic muscle and skin dynamics (for example, sagging) that were previously extremely difficult to achieve.



New Weight Maps

Fourteen new weight maps have been added to Maya Muscle—giving you a faster, more intuitive way to assign, paint, adjust, and blend new types of weighted attributes (through maps) for various muscle and skin parameters.

[Bonedaddy]

Thanks to Spacebob and Kabab for the links, because otherwise this would have been a complete waste of time.

CGSociety writers and editors, please take note. While the forums are hardly the most impartial and level-headed place for responses, the response, in this case, is legitimately negative. This article was borderline insulting to the readership, and is a bad reflection on CGSociety as a whole.

[Dharroun]

Soft selection...more like max?
There are huge possibilities lying dormant until the next CG wave I guess...
Im specifically a Maya user and cant imagine having to entirely transfer to another package, but did from Max to Maya. I know its possible but it sure would suck now.
Ive always been a fan of a one program does all workflow.

Im painting a lot these days...Kinda hoping these program wars settle down...Seems like maya is doing fine...But I sure dont want to see her fall behind.
She is still the queen no?

[TAVO]

the funny thing is that you can actually click in the picture and have a big one of the man itself :scream: :scream: :scream: , like if you have a lot of things to tell him, maybe you do ?? :D

[nottoshabi]

Thanks to Spacebob and Kabab for the links, because otherwise this would have been a complete waste of time.

CGSociety writers and editors, please take note. While the forums are hardly the most impartial and level-headed place for responses, the response, in this case, is legitimately negative. This article was borderline insulting to the readership, and is a bad reflection on CGSociety as a whole.


Agreed. This was a waste of my time I should bill AutoDesk.

[Als]

The news release for price cut:

http://pressreleases.autodesk.com/index.php?s=press_releases&item=386%3C/td%3E

:thumbsup:



Als

[Kai01W]

Thanks to Spacebob and Kabab for the links, because otherwise this would have been a complete waste of time.

CGSociety writers and editors, please take note. While the forums are hardly the most impartial and level-headed place for responses, the response, in this case, is legitimately negative. This article was borderline insulting to the readership, and is a bad reflection on CGSociety as a whole.

quoted for agreement


-k

[spacefrog]

spacebob - reminds me on spongebob

indeed would be a nice nickname, i'll consider a change ;-)

[CarlRiver]

Thanks Kabab. This actually sounds really great. Looks as though some of the features I've been missing after switching from Max are finding their way into Maya.

[ThE_JacO]

i think autodesk need to sit still and NOT develop maya and max just for the time being...

give the other apps a chance to catch up...

maybe halt for 3-5years..should be enough for modo, xsi, lightwave etc to draw upto autodesk's coat tails and at least have a look at where autodesk has been dragging the rest of the industry along behind them:D
That being sarcasm?

[ciff]

Maya 2008 Extension 2 is where? not listed in the subscription centre, extension 1 is the lastes avilable, am i missing a link? Not too impressed with autodesk, shame, they could do so much with Maya but there doing so little, kinda worried for Maya's future :(

[Howitzer]

Yeah, you can't act like Microsoft for long in this industry. Autodesk is screwed.

[DavidR]

I'm worried that they're pushing their cool viewport shadow capability (Review?) to a market (arch viz) that will probably never switch to mental ray because of the limits of a photon-based renderer. Despite some nice presets in rendering and materials, skylight portal, etc, mr is not comparable to Vray for secondary illumination rendering, and Autodesk should realize this. I'm very distressed by the Max split, not for the 2009 version, but that it paves the way for further divergence. Otherwise, it was a really boring, useless article.

[Kabab]

Yeah, you can't act like Microsoft for long in this industry. Autodesk is screwed.
Where the hell do you come up with such assumptions???

Lets look at Autodesk's 2007 results

"Revenues from the Media and Entertainment segment increased 50 percent over the third quarter of fiscal 2006 to a record $64 million. Animation revenues were $33 million in the quarter, an increase of nearly 160 percent over the third quarter of fiscal 2006 and 14 percent sequentially. 3ds Max revenues increased 28 percent compared to the third quarter of fiscal 2006. Revenues from Autodesk Maya reached a record level, increasing 33 percent sequentially. Advanced Systems revenues increased 5 percent both sequentially and compared to the third quarter of fiscal 2006. Over 80 percent of Advanced Systems product revenue in the quarter was Linux-based."

"For fiscal year 2008, net revenues are expected to be between $2.075 billion and $2.125 billion"

http://pressreleases.autodesk.com/index.php?s=press_releases&item=149%3C%2Ftd%3E

Sales: $1,839.8M
One year growth: 20.8%
Net income: $289.7M
Income growth: (11.9%)

If i'm reading the balance sheet correctly they have 830 million sitting in cash in the bank and about another 1.1 billion in assets.

M&E generated 170 million in revenue which is about 10% of the companies income which isn't to shabby.


Now lets compared them to their biggest competitor in the M&E space.

Avid

Key numbers for fiscal year ending December, 2006:
Sales: $910.6M
One year growth: 17.4%
Net income: ($42.9)M

From what i can tell from the finical reports all that revenue comes from their Video editing and Audio solutions, they don't list the income / loss for the 3d business which to me says its insignificant.

More then happy to be corrected but that is just what i have read from their own reports.

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=82844&p=irol-reportsannual

So basically Autodesk is running a really strong and successful business compared to their competition.

[Howitzer]

Ouch......

I'm sorry.

[alexentremont]

Maya 2008 Extension 2 is where? not listed in the subscription centre, extension 1 is the lastes avilable, am i missing a link?(
The press release says it should be available for download in march.

[vmpre]

Where the hell do you come up with such assumptions???

Lets look at Autodesk's 2007 results

"Revenues from the Media and Entertainment segment increased 50 percent over the third quarter of fiscal 2006 to a record $64 million. Animation revenues were $33 million in the quarter, an increase of nearly 160 percent over the third quarter of fiscal 2006 and 14 percent sequentially. 3ds Max revenues increased 28 percent compared to the third quarter of fiscal 2006. Revenues from Autodesk Maya reached a record level, increasing 33 percent sequentially. Advanced Systems revenues increased 5 percent both sequentially and compared to the third quarter of fiscal 2006. Over 80 percent of Advanced Systems product revenue in the quarter was Linux-based."

"For fiscal year 2008, net revenues are expected to be between $2.075 billion and $2.125 billion"

http://pressreleases.autodesk.com/index.php?s=press_releases&item=149%3C%2Ftd%3E

Sales: $1,839.8M
One year growth: 20.8%
Net income: $289.7M
Income growth: (11.9%)

If i'm reading the balance sheet correctly they have 830 million sitting in cash in the bank and about another 1.1 billion in assets.

M&E generated 170 million in revenue which is about 10% of the companies income which isn't to shabby.


Now lets compared them to their biggest competitor in the M&E space.

Avid

Key numbers for fiscal year ending December, 2006:
Sales: $910.6M
One year growth: 17.4%
Net income: ($42.9)M

From what i can tell from the finical reports all that revenue comes from their Video editing and Audio solutions, they don't list the income / loss for the 3d business which to me says its insignificant.

More then happy to be corrected but that is just what i have read from their own reports.

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=82844&p=irol-reportsannual

So basically Autodesk is running a really strong and successful business compared to their competition.


Just looking over your post, and maybe I am reading this incorrectly, you are comparing AutoDesk to Avid. Yes, Autodesk is way more sucessful than Avid no doubt about it...but is that the best way to compare the two when it comes to M&E?

Based on what you said, 90% of AutoDesks revenue is coming from the CAD/ARCH/VIZ buisness. M&E generated 170 million in revenue which is about 10% of the companies income which isn't to shabby

Since Avid does not have a CAD division and is just an M&E type of company. Doesnt it make more sense to compare ADSK M&E with Avid as opposed to the whole of ADSK?

Which case, if you are just comparing M&E to Avid, they are not all that far off, yes ADSK is doing better but not by massive leaps and bounds when you factor out the CAD buisness. Plus Avid does not break down revenue by division (at least thats what I thought) so there is no good way to finanically compare 3D products.

Again, maybe I read your post wrong but $1.8B in sales is very very good...but if M&E is only 10% is that really a huge lift over Avid?



As for the topic...if I were a MAX user, I would be worried about my product. More and more MAX features are moving over into Maya. MAX is splitting into 2 products. My guess is that you are going to see MAX move into the VIZ area leaving M&E and the former MAX M&E customers moving to Maya. They are putting MAX features into Maya all the time, but how many Maya features are you seeing put into MAX? I think they are trying to make Maya more comfortable for former MAX users when they cut the string of MAX in the M&E unit and MAX becomes a full time ARCH/VIZ product.

Just my 2 cents...but what do I know. :)

[Bonedaddy]

My basic feeling:

Maya Complete gets axed, and it becomes Unlimited-only, aiming at the high-end VFX market.

Max goes for the lower-end VFX and the games market.

Max spinoff goes for the archviz market.

[toontje]

"The Visualization user is as sophisticated as the Media & Entertainment user. But they will not want a 3ds Max program that has major skinning ability."

Oh yeah ? Thankyou for telling us what we need to do our work. It's very nice of you... Of course all we need is to read revit files isn't it? The fact that we never even saw one of these is trivial, since you now better... don´t you?

I gess it's time for us to consider our "future directions..."

Great litle "article" ....:deal:

Why not jump on the Blender bandwagon then? No commercial, no nonsense, every release (2 to 3 releases a year) is chuckfull of new goodies. New functionalities are not implemented because of some marketing whim, it is driven by the user community.

[Mazer]

Why not jump on the Blender bandwagon then? No commercial, no nonsense, every release (2 to 3 releases a year) is chuckfull of new goodies. New functionalities are not implemented because of some marketing whim, it is driven by the user community.

well.... because we don't jump in bandwagons, we chose the tools we trust are capable of professional production work today and in the future.

[Artbot]

...the response, in this case, is legitimately negative. This article was borderline insulting to the readership, and is a bad reflection on CGSociety as a whole.

Their response? Front page plug!

[FreakyDude]

well.... because we don't jump in bandwagons, we chose the tools we trust are capable of professional production work today and in the future.

which is exactly why I choose blender for my everyday job.
glad I'm no longer a max user.

[Imhotep397]

Apple...Please buy AutoDesk soon. :sad:

[Neight]

Being a Max user for a few years now, this article was more confusing than anything. They mentioned Max Design 2009 and Max 2009 but really didn’t say what either will do. I really hope they aren’t going to split a great package up into 2 lesser useful tools, increases the price, and make you purchase both.

I do arch vis and all we use is Autodesk products – due to the great workflow between AutoCAD, Revit, and Max. In my opinion (with VRay of course) there is no greater tool for arch-vis, but I wouldn’t cater strictly to it or cut off ties with the packages other uses. Even if it is more profitable then gaming and VFX (and as such there really isn’t too many other 3d packages that do arch-vis well). I think Max’s strength is in its versatility; when I worked on a few 360 games that’s all we used too, deciding to take out certain features from one product, and place them in another really is doing it a disservice.

Especially for all the freelance guys and small firms that do a bit of everything – no longer being able to buy a single package that allows you to render, light, model, and animate, really may cause people to look elsewhere. I find it a bit unfortunate (though a smart business decision) that Autodesk purchased Max and Maya; they have always been (In my opinion) the two leading 3d packages and no longer having them in direct competition seems to be allowing changes to be made as there really is no opposition or stand in for these 2 software packages.

I mean I’m prepared to go on a little bit of faith with Autodesk, but let’s hope that we (the 3d users!!!) don’t end up getting shafted.

[Venkman]

which is exactly why I choose blender for my everyday job.
glad I'm no longer a max user.

I'm going to start looking at Houdini (HD edition) and Blender if they drop Maya complete.

Let me rephrase: I will be priced out of Maya if they drop complete.

[Dharroun]

Apple...Please buy AutoDesk soon. :sad:

I may be jolting a bit off topic here but am I part of a majority of CG artists that doesnt use apples for anything except apple sauce with my pork chops?

I kinds laughed but got to thinking...what if apple did buy Autodesk?....

Isnt Autodesk the second largest software company in the world behind Microsoft?

Apple would candy-coat it like they do everything else.

[FreakWizz]

I may be jolting a bit off topic here but am I part of a majority of CG artists that doesnt use apples for anything except apple sauce with my pork chops?

I kinds laughed but got to thinking...what if apple did buy Autodesk?....
Isnt Autodesk the second largest software company in the world behind Microsoft?
Apple would candy-coat it like they do everything else.


Umm Apples pockets are SOOOOO much deeper than Autodesks.... Apple could buy Adobe and Autodesk and still have money for apple sauce and pork chops.. And no Autodesk is likely the third largest software company, Adobe and Microsoft are much, much bigger....

Apple may candy-coat stuff, but in the last few years they have made every right move, they know their market and what they need to do, and are making fists full of money. And no i'm strictly a PC man, but everything from the Ipod the Iphone to Itunes to $1 dollar music downloads, has put Apple in a great position market wise.

[Kabab]

Umm Apples pockets are SOOOOO much deeper than Autodesks.... Apple could buy Adobe and Autodesk and still have money for apple sauce and pork chops.. And no Autodesk is likely the third largest software company, Adobe and Microsoft are much, much bigger....

Apple may candy-coat stuff, but in the last few years they have made every right move, they know their market and what they need to do, and are making fists full of money. And no i'm strictly a PC man, but everything from the Ipod the Iphone to Itunes to $1 dollar music downloads, as put Apple in a great position market wise.
So i wonder if they will do the Max and Maya what they did to shake :p

Apple sells consumer goods first everything else second.

[Hordak]

Apple sucks!

Unfortunately Autodesk is starting to suck too..

[ha-dou-ken]

...why is this on the front page?Oh yeah, to pay the bills.

[Artbot]

Umm Apples pockets are SOOOOO much deeper than Autodesks.... Apple could buy Adobe and Autodesk and still have money for apple sauce and pork chops.. And no Autodesk is likely the third largest software company, Adobe and Microsoft are much, much bigger....

Hard to tell if you're joking. Here's the actual order of software companies. Apple is quite small in camparison to ADSK and Adobe.

http://softwaretop100.org/list.php?page=1

[josecarlospoeiras]

Either ways FreakWizz,

user of Macromedia products only lose quality with Abode's aquisition.

It happen with every monopoly. If you don't have a choice your vender doesn't give a sh*t.
You always have to buy his product.

It's very easy to have a "healthy company" if have the green to buy every possible selling product.

One of the worst news in my career was the aquisition of Alias. I knew them I no longer could think in maya has an alternative software.

[CarlRiver]

Hard to tell if you're joking. Here's the actual order of software companies. Apple is quite small in camparison to ADSK and Adobe.

http://softwaretop100.org/list.php?page=1
Wtf I can't find Apple on this list... Oh there it is, on page 2 right before Novell.

I like Apple for their design. But other than that it is just great marketing and selling sh** for gold. They have a great ability of telling us how great it is that their software/hardware can't do this and can't do that (e.g. mac book air, iRack :p ).

Anyway, I totally agree with bonedaddy. This is probably the way they are heading. And as long as they keep us calm (with maya extensions and such) they won't have to fear anything. I don't think anyone is seriously considering a switch just because Autodesk behaves this way. Maya is still a great product (and Max too). Although SideFX will give Autodesk quite a hard time since Houdini has suddenly become affordable for the average user.

[bluecanvas]

I find it a bit unfortunate (though a smart business decision) that Autodesk purchased Max and Maya; they have always been (In my opinion) the two leading 3d packages and no longer having them in direct competition seems to be allowing changes to be made as there really is no opposition or stand in for these 2 software packages.

There is competition in Archviz. C4D + Vray starts at around 2K vs around 4K for Max + Vray. That's with the core version of C4D but I can't think of many mainstream archviz tasks that would exceed it. C4D Architectural edition + Vray would come to about 3K. Closer to the Max price. But it includes NPR rendering tools that Max doesn't have as far as I know.

Whether a place that has been using Max for years would switch to C4D for the lower price is debatable. But there is enough competition to keep Autodesk on its toes.

[FreakWizz]

Hard to tell if you're joking. Here's the actual order of software companies. Apple is quite small in camparison to ADSK and Adobe.

http://softwaretop100.org/list.php?page=1

Sorry, I was talking specifically companies around the CG Industry, middleware and DB makers don't really count.... :) (Well not to me!)

Apple's current software revenue obviously doesn't make that much (nor should it) but based on Market Captial Apple are worth over 108 Billion, and Autodesk a mere 8 billion or so..... There is no doubt if Apple wanted to buy Autodesk it could, but not vice-versa.

I'm not sure it would be a good thing, but gee it would be a massive change to the 3D software industry if it were too........ Nvidia should perhaps think Autodesk! :)

So i wonder if they will do the Max and Maya what they did to shake :p

You mean kill it......? I think it's too late for that now Autodesk own it.... ;)

josecarlospoeiras:

I totally agree.....!

[Kabab]

There is competition in Archviz. C4D + Vray starts at around 2K vs around 4K for Max + Vray. That's with the core version of C4D but I can't think of many mainstream archviz tasks that would exceed it. C4D Architectural edition + Vray would come to about 3K. Closer to the Max price. But it includes NPR rendering tools that Max doesn't have as far as I know.

Whether a place that has been using Max for years would switch to C4D for the lower price is debatable. But there is enough competition to keep Autodesk on its toes.
But what your overlooking that Autodesk has a strong hold on the actual CAD side of the architecture industry so they have some really nice data import / export workflows..

And the most important part they have the sales channel behind them to leverage that sector.

[Howitzer]

which is exactly why I choose blender for my everyday job.
glad I'm no longer a max user.

I did the exact opposite. Different strokes for different folks I guess.

[Andy1010]

This is the most depressing thread I've ever read on CGtalk, and there really is no news attached to it. I recently started using Maya at work. I'm scared after reading everyones replies. I hope the future isn't as grim as everyone is painting it.

[mocaw]

Apple...Please buy AutoDesk soon. :sad:

Hey- so they can do to MAX and Maya what they did to and with Shake!!! AWESOMENESS!!!

This is the most depressing thread I've ever read on CGtalk, and there really is no news attached to it. I recently started using Maya at work. I'm scared after reading everyones replies. I hope the future isn't as grim as everyone is painting it.

Grim? Yeah...if Maya were to go away the whole FX industry would have no where to go...dust in the wind...gone...bi bi...

I guess we could all just play pong or something...

I'm so depressed...

[Srek]

Hard to tell if you're joking. Here's the actual order of software companies. Apple is quite small in camparison to ADSK and Adobe.

http://softwaretop100.org/list.php?page=1
Apple is primarily a hardware company and mostly uses software to promote and sell their propriety hardware. Their main software product OS X comes for free with the machines (at least there is no extra pricetag for it). The second piece of software that is heavily used by many useres is QT, which is also free. So you can be a major producer of software without beeing up high in the sales stats for software.
Cheers
Björn

[FreakyDude]

Nvidia should perhaps think Autodesk! :)
for all things that are worth something in this world, (instead of dear god), NO!

[fxgogo]

When I started using Max at version 1.2, I loved it. It was a fresh new way of doing 3D. But I would say since version 3, maybe 4, the program has become increasing frustrating to use. Dialogs open slower (eg the object select dialog), response of the timeline has slowed. The program is in a serious need of a re-write. Will it happen? I am not so sure. Autodesk is a slow lumbering company, who I don't think would see the cost in development aiding in increasing sales.

The other reason Autodesk suck, is after sales service. When I want service I feel like I am dealing with a government agency. Getting to the right person is not easy. I hate the way I am always referred to resellers, I don't want a sales person to talk to me, I want a tech support person.

[fxgogo]

Another point:

Autodesk has a massive share of the 3D market, so they are not going anywhere soon. But anyone remember how Softimage lost their market share to Maya? The company being shopped around a couple of times (Microsoft being an owner at one stage), along with a delayed version of XSI allowed Alias to bring an initially underwhelming version of Maya to market and grab most of Softimage 3D/XSI share.

The way Autodesk works and is treating Max and Maya, I could see a shift in peoples pipelines to things like XSI, Houdini, Cinema 4D, Modo. Basically to companies that focus on the M&E market more closely and, in my opinion, give better after sales service (at least in my dealings with Maxon).

[Lone Deranger]

Wow... this "article" is backfiring quite a bit on AutoDesk isn't it....

[Mazer]

One of the worst news in my career was the aquisition of Alias.

I remenber that day.... you looked like if some big ugly ogre had eaten your puppy dog :D
That same afternoon I showed you some xsi sreengrabs to ease your suffering... but 'till this day you are stil on post trauma. You just don't smile as you did before my friend :sad:..... :D

[ThE_JacO]

...why is this on the front page?Oh yeah, to pay the bills.

I've been the first (together with other mods) to give some flak to admins and cgs about it, but this is frontpage because every piece of news written by ballistic goes frontpage.

Do you really think they would interview some industry player bigwig and have an article titled as the biggest company in the field and not plug it? Whether the contents are worth reading or not is a different matter, but you have to remember that as a site you can't ask somebody for an interview and a roadmap, and then simply not pull it together and plug it because you think users wouldn't like it.

CGS does what it's supposed to do, sometimes it backfires, this time it did, but the interview+plug procedure is standard. If all AD has to offer to users as far as info goes is a bunch of blabbered idiocy off the mouth of some spastic marketing campaigner, then the fault is in AD's PR department.

[lo]

If all AD has to offer to users as far as info goes is a bunch of blabbered idiocy off the mouth of some spastic marketing campaigner, then the fault is in AD's PR department.

You make a valid point in some ways, but I disagree. I think CGS, by labeling these features as news, has a responsibility to its readers to make sure they actually hold newsworthy content, and not just be another of Autodesks marketing channels. By not doing so it just hurts itself by losing reader credibility and respect. The article could just as well be called "Autodesk Bigwig Praises own Company".

Disclaimer: I love CGTalk and have been using the forums for years, that's why I think it deserves better

[mustique]

CGC' responsibility IMO is limited by serving as a communication platform for CG.

I think this is a healthy discussion going on here, even if most of it sounds depressive.

After all, if everybody was happy and satisfied,
we would still be using MS Paint and playing tetris wouldn't we.

[ThE_JacO]

You make a valid point in some ways, but I disagree. I think CGS, by labeling these features as news, has a responsibility to its readers to make sure they actually hold newsworthy content, and not just be another of Autodesks marketing channels. By not doing so it just hurts itself by losing reader credibility and respect. The article could just as well be called "Autodesk Bigwig Praises own Company".

This thread seems to have proven that users are perfectly capable to tell marketing BS from useful content.
CGS' commitment is to make sure info circulates. If a company intends to communicate to users a particular image (hey we be making cash, good cash, ***k the roadmap) not communicating it because users might find it not praiseworthy is close to censorship.

That is why I said it's the PR's department's fault, because that's what they wanted their 9 million customers to read, hence that's what you got.
I personally would be really offended if somebody thought me, as a user, so stupid that I needed info filtered and neatly categorized and cleaned for me.

[Limbus]

This thread seems to have proven that users are perfectly capable to tell marketing BS from useful content.
CGS' commitment is to make sure info circulates. If a company intends to communicate to users a particular image (hey we be making cash, good cash, ***k the roadmap) not communicating it because users might find it not praiseworthy is close to censorship.


To make it an article and not just plain commercial CGS could have thrown in some tough questions or a comment. They could have asked the questions that the users here want answered but they choose not to do it.
And I don't believe that CGS postet the "article" that big just because they are fullfilling their "duty". A plain link to a pressrelease would have done that.

Florian

[ThE_JacO]

erm...
The article is about reporting what AD communicated in their world press event, it wasn't a 1on1 interview with their board. It's pretty much a direct reflection of what their PR department wants you to perceive about the company.
Journalistic obbligations in cases like this are to report and quote, you don't have a chance to throw curveballs at them you know :)

[lo]

I personally would be really offended if somebody thought me, as a user, so stupid that I needed info filtered and neatly categorized and cleaned for me.

so basically you don't mind webpages 90% full of ads? :)

j/k, I understand what you mean... more or less

[Bonedaddy]

erm...
The article is about reporting what AD communicated in their world press event, it wasn't a 1on1 interview with their board. It's pretty much a direct reflection of what their PR department wants you to perceive about the company.
Journalistic obbligations in cases like this are to report and quote, you don't have a chance to throw curveballs at them you know :)

I think my central problem is that, even though it's a PR release and not an actual article, it's lumped in with the rest of the articles, making it seem like something that CGS spent some time on. The Ballistic plug at the end doesn't help get rid of that taste in my mouth. I don't know who put that part in, but I can't imagine it was Autodesk. The title of the article was intensely misleading, as well.

Basically, people have been champing at the bit for more information as to Max/Maya's future ever since the acquisition. This "article" played off that, and pulled a bait-and-switch that everyone is reacting intensely negatively towards.

I understand you need to spread the information, but you cannot paint CGS as largely blameless when they put a provocative, related-to-nothing title on the article and plug their own book at the end. That, more than anything, is why everyone is blaming CGS for it. It's like a "Click here! You won a free iPod!" ad -- it's misleading.

I stand by my statement that the "article" is borderline insulting to the readership. I'm hoping that some of the CGS higher-ups understand exactly -why- we dislike it so, because I'm not sure what background the content producers come from, and how well they understand their market and core audience. There have been more than a couple questionable articles, so one begins to wonder...

[bluecanvas]

But what your overlooking that Autodesk has a strong hold on the actual CAD side of the architecture industry so they have some really nice data import / export workflows..

This is the company that owns C4D.

http://www.nemetschek.com/

C4D talks to AllPlan, Vectorworks and ArchiCAD bi-directionally. You can send CAD data to C4D to render. Or you can remodel parts in C4D and send the changes back to the CAD package.

[smoluck]

This is the most depressing thread I've ever read on CGtalk, and there really is no news attached to it. I recently started using Maya at work. I'm scared after reading everyones replies. I hope the future isn't as grim as everyone is painting it.

I totally agree !
That's really a bad news when Alias Maya goes in the pocket of Autodesk. But as I remember Maya didn't grows at every realease in terms of basic but helpfull improvements, since the V3 or 2.5. and it's the same for 3DSMAX (I've used it during the v2 to v4.

I just remember my new gift... Modo 1xx last Year. That's a Great tool Like Zbrush v2.x. Maya just being a Pipeline at this time (according to my production needs) and now I just use it to organise UV's / shading and Import for our API (I didn't use animation tool since my study class).

I hope Maya will got some fresh cleaning in the future, because every year it slide little by little in the grave.

[seandunderdale]

these discussions are getting old. Autodesk will do what they want with the apps regardless. Studios will continue to subscibe because unless theyre a solo freelancer, they have scripters to bug fix stuff and write workarounds. The fact is, its a powerful tool, and it works 95% of the time, and that other 5% you find another way to do it.

I dont care about the PR, I just choose to ignore it as its a waste of my own time. If I get fed up with Maya, like its poly tools for example, I go and learn Modo instead of moaning about how I hate Autodesk.

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