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LavenPillay
02-17-2008, 08:26 PM
*UPDATE*

Heres some sculpting.

Looks ok, but I can't get the normal maps out properly. :(
(I'm a Zbrush newbie)

http://www.darkness.co.za/gallery/3d/domwar3/z01.jpg

http://www.darkness.co.za/gallery/3d/domwar3/z03.jpg

LavenPillay
02-17-2008, 08:28 PM
----------------

Greetingssssss humanssss

The great Valiarkos Empire and the Vampyre race hassss decided to join your worthy army to defeat the pretenderssss to the throne.

I am their emisssssary...

---------------

Hey guys! Great (and daunting) to be takin part in a comp like this!

I haven't really decided what I'm gonna be doing yet, but I'm probably gonna go with a Vampyre Invoker with a Dark/Void artifact.

Background :
The Tears of Blood are three Champions of the Vampyre people and were once citizens of the Valiarkos Empire on the vampyre homeworld, Valiarkos Prime.

Once every thousand years a new Champion is chosen by one of the Blood Stones, incredibly ancient artifacts which were created from the remains of a planet which had consumed its entire population and incorporated their life force into itself.

Thus did Delkayne become one of the Tears of Blood, 200 years ago.

Bonding with a Blood Stone bestows the wielder with near immortality from aging, and protects them from most physical harm. However, the ever-shifting laws of magic mean that there is always a weakness....

The Tears of Blood have become even more important to the vampyre people since Space Travel became impossible. Now they travel through wormholes to distant planets to harvest the blood, and the lifeforce it contains, of billions of aliens to sustain the people of the empire.

But now a planet has been discovered which may lead to the reclamation of ancient technology, including that of faster than light travel.

Soon. Soon the Empire will spread it's wings and fly out into the darkness of the galaxy once again. Enemies of the Empire beware.......

Information :
I really, REALLY like vampyres. ;)
But they've been done, overdone, underdone, etc, so I want to try to create a different kind of vampyre than we've seen before.

Of the two concepts I have so far, I like the idea of making a quadruped vamp, but I also have to balance my ambition against my skills (newb!) ;)

But which ever way i end up going, the basic idea is gonna be that somehow, the Tears of Blood collect and store blood-n-life-force using the Void as a "statis" storage.

Their mastery of the Void extends to using it to manipulate reality in subtle ways, like channelling the Fear of dead souls into a living being.
Cheerful. *grin*

Concept #1
- Quadruped.
- Part Spider/Insectoid
- Part Lizard/Cat
- Huge maw in the chest area (hey, if you're gonna feed, you should FEED!)
- (Not shown) Some sort of storage device or portal to the void which'll be connected to the sword


http://www.darkness.co.za/domwar3/vampyre_invoker/Character%20Concept%2002.jpg


Concept #2
Now this one i really like the Artifact. Thats a Blood Stone, people, if you had any doubt. ;)
- Its on an animated base so it follows Delkayne around.
- Maybe show some swirling stuff inside ?
- The idea is that the Blood Stones exact a price. THey demand parts of the Champions bodies in exchange for their...gifts.
- The black scribbly bits are actually not physical. Some sort of smokey/gaseous/energy substance which holds the parts of the body together (dunno how i'm gonna work that into the model...)




http://www.darkness.co.za/domwar3/vampyre_invoker/Character%20Concept%2001.jpg

But before i got to that, I was considering doing a Druid-style character.
Don't think I'm gonna go with that (looks like too much organic modelling. What a wuss I am... ), but heres some Weapon Designs and test poses.

Lemme know what you think!

And any advice on deciding what to go with, with a specific angle on modelling it afterwards would be greatly appreciated (i've not really done low-poly modelling before)











http://www.darkness.co.za/domwar3/concept_orc_druid/Weapons%2001.jpg

http://www.darkness.co.za/domwar3/concept_orc_druid/Weapons%2002.jpg

Yep, the "Bloodwing" is based on the Batwing. *grin*

Xarxys
02-17-2008, 08:50 PM
I am really sorry to say this but the top image that you posted looks really close to what someone did for Dominance war II last year :(

Jassar
02-17-2008, 08:56 PM
I'll be keeping an eye on this thread...

I am really sorry to say this but the top image that you posted looks really close to what someone did for Dominance war II last year

Dammit!
Keep going man :)

LavenPillay
02-17-2008, 09:00 PM
Bugger.

Oh well, I was leaning towards the second and must still do more anyways. ;)
Trying not to let myself get too attached to an idea before i explore more options anyways.

Thanks for the heads-up, Xarxys!
Thats the beauty of the Dominance War, eh ? :thumbsup:

PS : Do you know which entry or who did it ? Wouldn't mind checking it out.

PPS : Also, how does that work anyway ? I mean theres gonna be quite a few people with no knowledge of that past years' entries. Could we be disqualified or "marked down" if we hit a concept thats similar to an old one ?

If we didn't know, i mean ?

Thanks again, Xarxys.

Xarxys
02-17-2008, 09:06 PM
I'm not sure who made it because they took down the DWII forum They didn't make it into the top 50 I don't think they finished it before the time is up. I don't think you'll get marked down for it, it is so hard to come up with anything truely new anymore because almost everything has been done. I just thought I woudl let you know that I seen it before just in case, I would want someone to tell me if they have seen an almost exact image to mine before. Maybe someone else who was in DWII last year would know?

LavenPillay
02-18-2008, 03:07 PM
Hey guys, check it out.

I think i got something i really like.

Race : Vampyre
Class : Invoker
Artifact : Wings of Life
Magic Element : Darkness/Void

http://www.darkness.co.za/domwar3/vampyre_invoker/concept%2001.jpg


Questions :
1. Do we have to make it really obvious what the artifact does ?
Because the theory is that the artifacts in addition to holding the Bloodstones, provide the Invoker with the abilityo to channel Darkness/Void magic through the symbiotic demon in his chest. But i don't know if just saying so is enough ?

2. Is the color scheme cool ? Needs work i know, but for a start ?
I plan on putting some glowing runes on the wings and (polygons permitting) some extra armor/decorative stuff round the skirt.

Ah, just thought of another addition : tattoos on his arms

I'm leaning towards this one but don't want to finalise just yet.

Aargh another idea.
Instead of the wings being the artifact i could create a staff of sorts. A bit more impressive, perhaps ?

SUggestions and crits will be most appreciated.

Jassar
02-18-2008, 03:26 PM
I like this new concept alote ^_^
I feel he looks too bright for a vampire don't u think? perhaps changing his white clothes to deep red?
Keep going :)

XP-58
02-18-2008, 03:36 PM
Honestly I also like the wing to be artifact. Hell, some of the ideas in my head involve wing as artifact too afterall :D, and I thought that's cool.

However, after reading some xx pages at GA forum, somehow I found this:
http://www.gameartisans.org/forums/showthread.php?t=1741&page=51
(scroll down to FredH's post mentioning "handheld", anyway their server is down while I'm posting this)

Well in my head "should" isn't equal to "must", but it's FredH who said that line, maybe it 's supposed to be significant? But are the actual judges going to have the same principle? Maybe if the artifact clearly stands out as an artifact there will be no problem? I also haven't found any nice answer. Probably better to ask at GA.

Not such a clear piece of information but I hope you'll find it useful :)

LavenPillay
02-18-2008, 04:45 PM
I like this new concept alote ^_^
I feel he looks too bright for a vampire don't u think? perhaps changing his white clothes to deep red?

You're right, Jassar, but I dint want to overdo the red on the character, since i want the Bloostones to stand out.

In fact, after i did it, I thought : "Sod. He looks like a friggen clericon now. Well he does deal with Life in a way...." ;)

But still, gong with your idea, i could try :
- Deep, DEEP (almost black) red, with light grey borders ?
- Or maybe a (top-to-bottom) black-to-gray gradient ?
- Maybe put some layered "strips" over the major white part ?
- Or maybe just make the white part really aged ?

Thanks for the pointer!

XP-58, I think I want to go a bit wild with the wings. I also just like the idea cos its always impressive when a winged character spreads their wings for the first time!
And, yeah, regardin the artifact, i was wondering about that (the GA site is still down).
I can't remember exactly, but i think Fredh mentioned that, with regard to Invokers, since they specifically create their magic from themselves, their artifacts could be stuff like Necklaces, Pendants etc.

Dont quote me on that, tho! ;)

What about the face ?
Too plain ?

Thanks guys.

Airflow
02-19-2008, 03:25 AM
Love the wings thing, maybey if you made it blood crystals it be far more practical. I can see him getting tangled up or worse yet cutting one of his own hoses.
Nice start.

Loukor
02-19-2008, 03:29 AM
haha thats pretty sick, keep doing those sketches... I would like to see more.

Xarxys
02-19-2008, 03:40 AM
That is a really neat idea and I agree he should be a really dark color.

svickers
02-19-2008, 04:29 AM
thats a really cool concept man. I can't wait to see more!!

madshooter
02-19-2008, 05:44 AM
Very nice concepts, especially the last one, looks cool. All the best:thumbsup:

LavenPillay
02-19-2008, 11:22 AM
Love the wings thing, maybey if you made it blood crystals it be far more practical. I can see him getting tangled up or worse yet cutting one of his own hoses.


HAhaahahah! Oh, thats hilarious! Dude, that absolutely canned me!

I can just imagine the scene :

A huge battlefield, the Vampyre forces standing off against the Sissy Elves.
As the the Champion signals the charge, the tubes get sliced and start spraying blood all over his own troops.
"Oops. Sh1t. Sorry guys. Crap, this thing just won't stop! Uhm...sorry, sorry, sh1t. Will SOMEONE get me a hankerchief or a mop or something!?"

Point taken, though.
I planned on having them link up to the wing attachment on his back.
So I'll modify the shape of the wings so they go backwards, away from his body first.

Now just to design an appropriate artifact, sine Fred wants them hand-held.

Thanks, guys!
Will update tonight sometime.

LavenPillay
02-21-2008, 09:32 AM
Okay! Finally got around to creating a concept for the artifact.

Name :
Lexis Vita Mortis (The Words of Life and Death)

Background :
The Book itself is physically made up of the skins of fallen Tears of Blood Champions through the ages.
With his/her last breath, a dying Tear of Blood may sacrifice his soul to the Void and have his Arcane abilities channeled into the Book. A powerful rite as well as being symbolic of the Champions dedication to the protection of their people.

Details :
Some of the most powerful (and dangerous) and forbidden spells in the known galaxies are contained within the pages of Lexis Vita Mortis.
Into the front cover, the (still living) eye of the first and greatest Protector of the Empire, Vlad Dracos, is bound in eternal Vigilance, his never-ending promise to his people not yet broken after millions of years.
The back cover contains a portal to the Void, to tap into the demonic energy available. However the minions of the Void itself are contantly trying to claim the powerful magic of the Book for themselves, which is why it is anchored with a magical chain to the staff and hence the physical realm.

Still need to finalise what the staff should look like, but heres a look see.

http://www.darkness.co.za/domwar3/vampyre_invoker/Artifact%20Concept%2001.jpg

http://www.darkness.co.za/domwar3/vampyre_invoker/Artifact%20Concept%20002.jpg

madshooter
02-22-2008, 07:52 AM
Man thats rocking:) That book chained to staff is really unique, looks real cool. Those tears, you gonna model it out or will it be just textured.

LavenPillay
02-25-2008, 07:17 AM
Thanks, dude.

Ordinarily, I think I'd do a fair amount of smaller detail with at least a bit of modelling, but I reckon for games modelling, I gotta experiment with how much I can get away with with Normal Mapping and then see how much of detail i need to model ?

Gonna be a lot of trail and error....

Managed to get some modelling down over the weekend, will post it up soon.

LavenPillay
02-25-2008, 07:25 AM
Okay, here we go.
Not that my modelling is really smashing or anything, but I'll try to put up as many in-between steps for "proof" as well as to help other newbs like me with watching the progression of modelling any particular part.

Head

http://www.darkness.co.za/domwar3/3D_Progress/Head/01.jpg

http://www.darkness.co.za/domwar3/3D_Progress/Head/02.jpg

http://www.darkness.co.za/domwar3/3D_Progress/Head/03.jpg

http://www.darkness.co.za/domwar3/3D_Progress/Head/04.jpg

LavenPillay
02-25-2008, 10:59 AM
Heres the (unmodified with little chest-daemon) torso.
(thought it would be better to make a neat model and then mess it up afterwards ;) )

http://www.darkness.co.za/domwar3/3D_Progress/Torso/01.jpg

http://www.darkness.co.za/domwar3/3D_Progress/Torso/02.jpg

http://www.darkness.co.za/domwar3/3D_Progress/Torso/03.jpg

http://www.darkness.co.za/domwar3/3D_Progress/Torso/04.jpg

LavenPillay
02-25-2008, 11:26 AM
Just fiddling around with this one for now, more to get a feel for the overall shape.

http://www.darkness.co.za/domwar3/3D_Progress/Full_Model/01.jpg

http://www.darkness.co.za/domwar3/3D_Progress/Full_Model/01_render.jpg

Dylock91
02-25-2008, 05:03 PM
Really like the design really unique , I like the lower dress section makes him look more like a caster and more priest like really cool like the colors two is the red and white going to be your main colors? I like the Idea of a real eye in the book should be really eye catching a great idea.

LavenPillay
02-25-2008, 10:43 PM
Thanks Dylock.

Yep, watch out for the book. Its gonna be a real... spectacle. ;)

Heres a small update with a test for the wings. Not quite right yet tho.

http://www.darkness.co.za/domwar3/3d/Full_Model/02.jpg

XP-58
02-26-2008, 08:49 AM
It's coming along nicely!

Can't wait to see the detailing of the wing. It looks like it's going to be a visual feast. The book is also great!

This just somehow popped up in my head, maybe when you detail up the dress, you can try implementing opacity map. Maybe you can get interesting edge detail shape (like ornaments or so) without having to spend extra tris.

Loukor
02-26-2008, 06:01 PM
Good job on getting the shape so far, it needs alot of tweaking still and some fixes in the proportions. Can't wait to see your next update, cheers.

LavenPillay
02-27-2008, 07:48 PM
...maybe when you detail up the dress, you can try implementing opacity map. Maybe you can get interesting edge detail shape (like ornaments or so) without having to spend extra tris.

XP-58, thanks, dude. And good idea. That'll make making it look tattered/aged a lot easier and efficient. I absolutley suck at efficient modelling, apparently. This stuff is taking me ages to get nearly right. :(

it needs alot of tweaking still and some fixes in the proportions.

Loukor, too right, make! :)

But in the mean time I'm playing around with ideas. Heres some additions to the wings.
XP-58, I fully intend on making it a visual feast! :thumbsup: I'm just gonna go nuts and then take stuff out later. *grin*

http://www.darkness.co.za/domwar3/3d/Full_Model/03.jpg

Dylock91
02-27-2008, 08:14 PM
I like the desgin/pattern but I think in my humble opinion the invidual sections of the actual wing look to flimsy, and they look a bit too metal like, - are they supposed to be metal if so then looking good.

madshooter
02-28-2008, 05:43 AM
Those wings are looking cool , nice update:thumbsup: As far as character is concerned, you can do same changes on his proportions, enhance the collar bone, Chest can be little more broad, his back can be little more broader. It won't take you lot of time just minor adjustments:).

LavenPillay
02-29-2008, 07:01 AM
I like the desgin/pattern but I think in my humble opinion the invidual sections of the actual wing look to flimsy, and they look a bit too metal like, - are they supposed to be metal if so then looking good.

Hehe. You're spot-on there Dylock, they are metal. And even better they're gonna be blades, like swords, maybe even detacheable and controllable. Yeah, that'll be sweet.
A spellcaster needs some sort of melee protection!

Also, the wings are for "show" not actual flying. Thats what magic is for. :thumbsup:

Those wings are looking cool , nice update:thumbsup: As far as character is concerned, you can do same changes on his proportions, enhance the collar bone, Chest can be little more broad, his back can be little more broader. It won't take you lot of time just minor adjustments

Thanks, dude.
You're right about the proportions.
I'm just so....frikken "scared" to comit to a model in case it "screws me up later" that I often just don't do stuff that i should at the right time.

I'll play around with his body proportions this weekend, cos I'll be adding the daemon in his chest.

I've done a little adjustment to the wings and blocked out what the chest will look like.
I'll post that up soon.

Thanks for the comments! :thumbsup:

Art2
03-07-2008, 01:00 PM
I really like the idea of a book as a weapon/artefact. An eye is cool, but you could also try something different, like a mouth :)

How are the feathers attached to the wing? And how's the wing attached to the body?
Or are they kind of floating? Which could be cool :)

DDS
03-07-2008, 01:09 PM
nice big ass wings. Don't u have this feeling inside, burning you from the deepest corner of your body/brain/heart whatever....like it's saying....ZZZzzzzzbrussssHH!!

Airflow
03-09-2008, 06:04 PM
Lol, I love the wings. Im still not sure about the tears. Maybey embed them in the wings, kinda like a fluid gauge, so you can see the wings are full of blood.

LavenPillay
03-09-2008, 07:46 PM
I really like the idea of a book as a weapon/artefact. An eye is cool, but you could also try something different, like a mouth :)

How are the feathers attached to the wing? And how's the wing attached to the body?

HEhe. Check the update. ;)
Thats just a test tho! Gonna work the mouth up better.

Don't u have this feeling inside, burning you from the deepest corner of your body/brain/heart whatever....like it's saying....ZZZzzzzzbrussssHH!!
Yeah, gonna haveta give that beast a go sooner or later! ;)

Maybey embed them in the wings, kinda like a fluid gauge, so you can see the wings are full of blood.
Hmmm... interesting. I can definately do something with that. Thanks!

Now for the update.

LavenPillay
03-09-2008, 07:51 PM
Okay, been out of commision for a while, but lets see what we can't do. ;)

Right, its become obvious that i could work on ideas for the wings alone forever, so i just bit the bullet and settled on a design. Not 100% yet, but let me know what you think.

Oh, and the torso and mouth is just a test not the final.

http://www.darkness.co.za/domwar3/3d/0803_01.jpg

http://www.darkness.co.za/domwar3/3d/0803_02.jpg

http://www.darkness.co.za/domwar3/3d/0803_03.jpg

http://www.darkness.co.za/domwar3/3d/0803_04.jpg

http://www.darkness.co.za/domwar3/3d/0803_05.jpg

madshooter
03-10-2008, 07:01 AM
Wings are looking more cool now:cool:. Keep it up Dude.

fluxist8070
03-10-2008, 08:29 AM
This is a freakin rad concept! Nice wings!
The demon in the chest is bizarre! Are you going to put armour around the bloodbags?

naidoomahen
03-10-2008, 12:06 PM
yo lav! wings are looking awesome bud! keep up the good work man. How much time are u able to dedicate to your character a night?

LavenPillay
03-10-2008, 09:33 PM
Thanks for the comments, dudes!

The demon in the chest is bizarre! Are you going to put armour around the bloodbags?
Thanks man. With any luck I'll be able to make it really wicked in ZBrush. Armour-wise, triangle-permitting, I'll add a few decorative bits here and there, but no plans for major armour.

Yo, Mahen, welcome back from the butchers! ;)

How much time are u able to dedicate to your character a night?
*Sheepish grin* Uhm...not as much as i could ? Hehe.
I try to do at least 2 hours a day. Sometimes more. Sometimes...less.

Gotta start on the Staff and the Book soon too. Yeesh! So much to do! Aaaargh!:scream:

LavenPillay
03-28-2008, 07:46 AM
Okay, after much ado (and even more REdo) I got my model ready for scuplting.
Or so i thought.

Sh1t, i really don't know what the workflow should/could be like! My UVs keep frikken moving all over the place! Aaaargh !
I'm definately not gonna make the deadline, but I'm gonna finish the model if its the last thing I do!

Right, now I need help.
I know that i should allocate more UV space to areas i want to hold more Normal Map detail, but how much ?
For example, the hands are hardly going to be seen too much, so should i make em smaller on the UV map ?

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks.

http://www.darkness.co.za/domwar3/3d/2703_01.jpg

http://www.darkness.co.za/domwar3/3d/2703_outUV.jpg

madshooter
03-28-2008, 07:52 AM
I think its okay if you keep hands smaller. One thing what are those small nuts & bolts on top in your uv's. I think you can just overlap them if you not gonna use normal map for them. This way you get more uv space, just a suggestion:) .

LavenPillay
03-28-2008, 10:42 AM
Aha. Nice one.
Its become very obvious to me that theres a sh1tload more to game-workflow compared to the "normal" modelling ,texturing and animation I've been doing.

And sculpting software just throughs a hugh kibosh in the works. ;)

Thanks, Mad, will attempt to do that, although I'm itching to just start frikken sculpting ! Aaaargh !

Necronomiden
03-28-2008, 10:59 AM
you can mirrow anything that is gonna be symmetrical even if you use normal maps is no problem, so pretty much you can just layout half the caracter and mirrow it having the uvs overlap, extept asymmetrical parts and thats it :beer: thats especially good if your going to trasfer normal maps fron within your main soft.
oh and after mirrowing the char remember to check wich direction your normals are facing

LavenPillay
03-28-2008, 11:11 AM
What ?! But i thought "Zbrush doesn't like overlapping UVs" ?

Oh, bugger...okay, I is gonna PM you for details, Octostatue! ;)

Necronomiden
03-28-2008, 11:33 AM
What ?! But i thought "Zbrush doesn't like overlapping UVs" ?

Oh, bugger...okay, I is gonna PM you for details, Octostatue! ;)

yes zbrush doesn't like ovelaping but maya doesn't mind :), you sculpt you char in zbrush, export to maya at a level that maya can handle depending of your ram (1gb ram = 500k poly i think) then you create the low poly ontop of that, the low poly is what you are going to uvmap the way i mentioned then you use the trasfer maps :thumbsup: hope this helps

oh and i forgot to mention that is WAY better if you crunch the exported mesh from zbrush either using maya's reduce operation or with third party software before bringing it to maya. theres alot of detail that you sculpt in zbrush thats not going to show up and its better if it doesn't show up, alot of things is better to do with textures :D

LavenPillay
03-28-2008, 01:32 PM
Aaaargh !!!
Bloody 'ell. I tried (experiment) the high-to-low transfer maps technique with a 800k high-poly model and Maya ran out of memory (of 2gb total, i had 1.4gb physical ram free), during the Transfer Maps operation. :(

Well, I've never done this before, and the bottom line is :
I need to Experiment and Learn about Workflow Options and Pros and Cons.

*sigh*

Thanks again, Octostatue, thats helped a lot.

Necronomiden
03-28-2008, 01:55 PM
ouch man, sorry to hear that, but i never go over 500k into maya, usualy i crunch it into something like 250k more less before importing it,i dont want to put stress on your wallet but i use something called 3d photo browser for 3d users + polygon cruncher (http://www.mootools.com/plugins/us/3dbrowserpro/index.asp#cruncher) by mootools. you could use maya's reduce but it will take longer, actually it depends on your computer (mine sucks) that crunched version should be tris.

just to have this in the record, polygon cruncher has failed me on crunching over 1 million polys, it just says "bad file extention" or something like that

LavenPillay
04-09-2008, 11:56 AM
Hey, thanks for the info Oct! That stuff looks good! I'll check it out.

Unfortuantely, I've given up hope of comepleting this model by the deadline and will probably have to "restart" it to complete it properly.

I've hit an issue with exporting the normal maps from ZBrush.
(I'm a complete newbie to ZBrush)

Take a look at my Sculpt vs the Normal Mapped versions.

What up with the Flat parts ?!
I made sure i went over them with a brush to get some sort of change goin' on.

http://www.darkness.co.za/domwar3/3d/02_highpoly.jpg

http://www.darkness.co.za/domwar3/3d/03_normalMap.jpg

http://www.darkness.co.za/domwar3/3d/04_normalMap.jpg

Firerbert
04-09-2008, 12:22 PM
I ran into the same issue. Go into the Zmapper options at the bottom. I think it is either the Misc. tab or the ExpertPass2 tab. There is a section for "raycasting max scan distance". Increase that to about halfway and those falt parts should disappear. Good luck man!:wavey:

Necronomiden
04-09-2008, 03:19 PM
im sorry to hear you might not finish :sad: i've never gotten that error man.. im not sure what it could be but most likely Firerbert's awnser is the solution.
in ZMapper did you go to Open Configuration tab and selected one? because i have a nvidia video card i choose NVidia_TangentSpace_Best_Quality :scream:.

LavenPillay
04-12-2008, 11:21 AM
Firebert, Octostatue, thanks for the tips!
I didn't try them out yet, but I'm sure it'll help.

In the end, i managed to get it (near) dead-on by using xNormal and 3ds Max.
(phew, bloody pipeplines, eh. ;) )

Well, at the very least this has been a very educational experience for me and I'm pretty sure I'll be ready for the next war! :D

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