Boxer Ranger "you'll see eventually"

[Spirit2029]

excellent start, you may want to look at the polys accrosse the cheset and run another line into the sholder, but not into the side of the pectoral cause you'll get a weird deformation most likely there. really kewl concept work too, very nice structure in them..

Spirit2029

[Blacklion]

Thanks for the help I'll try that after work tonight. :thumbsup:
I've been struggling with that area a bit but i'm dreading getting started on the collar bone and neck area theres not much there for me to work with.
The suggestion Spirit gave should go a long way in laying the foundation for the area I'm so reserved to start work on.

Thanx
More to come

All n all it's amazing how ones sensibilities transition so well from one form (clay) to the next (CG).
The rabbit hole to this medium is very deep indeed.

[Blacklion]

I couldn't wait till tonight, I tried the torso split sugestion.
I Think it's form flows better now

More to come lat3r or I'll be late.

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/oakbeast/torso-3.jpg

[Blacklion]

Update:
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/oakbeast/Untitled-1.jpg

The back is giving me problems ... well actually the whole thing is... seems like a big puzzle i can't walk away from.

I feel as though the neck /collar bone area could use some work but i'm spent on trying to figure out whats wrong and don't want to lose my zeal for the project. I may revisit it after i get the head in place.

Any suggestions would be helpful

Thanx

[Spirit2029]

ok lookin way better, but here's how I flow the mesh across the chest..it flows both into the shoulder and into the neck this way, more smooth shape, and better deformations..

[Spirit2029]

and in the back your headed in the right directon, but you need to have a spine in there, well a line of geometry to define it anyways, kinda like this, Im sorry this isnt a great example, havent done a naked human for awhile, all clothes...but this is still the general anatomy of the back...keep going....


Spirit2029

[Blacklion]

Thanks for the suggestion Spirit

I'll give it an edit over my weekend and post it up monday.

thnx

[Blacklion]

UPdate:
Think I did too much undoing and redoing this session,
(six / half hours to be exact!) didn't get as much done as i thought. Too much over thinking and not seeing the forest for the trees!!! :scream:

My brain is fried plus The Spurs / Lakers game is about to start . :bounce:

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/oakbeast/nutorso.jpg

I reconfigured the upper chest and did some work on the arms; I'll work on the back and give him a spine in the morning.

As norm any crit would be helpful

chow:buttrock:

[Spirit2029]

looking great blacklion, the mesh is much more clean. torso shape looks awesome, but the arms look a little odd. I think you got the biceps too long and the forearm tooo short. so lets see a head huh? Im keepin an eye on this, you're like my dimond in the rough hahahaha. but seriously, your stuff is looking great, keep it going..

Spirit2029

[Blacklion]

Cool
Thnx for the reply....
I fought with the arms till i was spent . I'm still not happy with it :wip:

I'll fix it tommorow

As for the head
It's coming up next, I've got to do some final pohtoshop things with the head setup and I'll post the his layout tomorrow.

[Gremlin]

I prefer to model the whole body, and THEN add the detail... from your position, modeling the lower half looks like its gonna be a pain in the ass...However, pretty good modeling; your abs rock, I wish I could do abs that good... mine always turn out to look like rigid displacements or arent visible! :argh:

It looks pretty solid, even tho your mesh is shite! that needs to be cleaned up crazy style, specially if you intend to animate.
Cheers,
:beer:

[Blacklion]

Gremlin

Build me up to tear me down eh?sniff sniff........ :cry:


It's my first crack at the poly method for gawds sake!!! :cry:


Yes he will be cleaned up and yes you'll get better at modeling abs if you work at it. :D

This guy really started off as a test . I was fooling around with a cube and started to push here and pull there no plan really, just wanted to see if all the reading I was doing paid off..... I think it's safe to say it did.:surprised
When I use sculpey I have the body/ form layed out (like you mentioned) then I layer in detail bake detail bake ....ect ect ect.

To my surprise this meduim works much in the same way.
For years I was of the notion that in order to achive kick ass results you had to use a patch method or somthin.

That is till I came across this site/community. :thumbsup:
As for modeling the lower half...I'm up to the challenge it's all a puzzle anyway.

BTW
I'd like to know what you mean by "your mesh is shite! "
If you mean the control cage is sloppy then yes I'd agree.... It's sloppy and dense azz phuk!

But....Please... be more specific. What would you clean and why? I'm new @ this stuff.



:

[Mithrandir315]

Hey man, awesome model!! I really like the way it's turning out for you. I've just started working with polygons myself. My only critique is that the seam where you connected the two halves, right down the middle, looks like it needs a bit of work. It's too abrupt, it looks like you modeled each half then just mooshed them together. One way I found to fix that is to split in a narrow row of vertices right next to your seam on either side. Then point snap them so that they're on the same plane as your seam verts but offset a bit. Then when you attach the two halves they look seamless. Ok, well I don't know if you already knew that or not, or if you know a better way, but I just figured I'd pass that along.

[Spirit2029]

Hey Grimy im looking at this mesh really closely and I have noticed a couple things wrong, but this is far from a shite mesh.. I think it will most likely deform fine, couple area's may pinch, in the chest still, but other then that its comin along nicely. And for a first go its not bad, so Blacklion finish it up to a point your happy with, and test out the mesh in the torso. Drop a quick skeleton into it, see how easily you can weight it, and get it to deform. The mesh isnt that heavy, although you could spread it out a little more, you have some dense spots. but overall this is quite good, your shape, and deformation is what counts, if it deforms fine then your smilling, cause the shape is kick ass..=)

Later
Spirit2029

[Blacklion]

Mithrandir:
Thnx for the sugestion. I'll give it a whirl when I combine the two control cages. I may just delete the middle edges if they seem unnessary.

I've only been editing the right control cage ...everything else is a -1 duplicate.

Spirit:
Thanx for the support. :thumbsup:
I plan on putting a skeleton on the guy in a bit. I just wanna get the head in next.

Beebop is on .......G'night!

[strick9]

Yo BlackLion! It's Dante from Gaming-Age. Got a different handle over here. Glad to see you posting here. This project is off to a great start. You should post your sculpted creatures here at CgTalk.

[Blacklion]

Dante! :thumbsup: sup man!
"You should post your sculpted creatures here at CgTalk."
I'm thinking about it. I guess they could go into the finished work area huh?

BTW
Your Priss model is awesome! Looks like she's seen better days....she come across a super Bumo or somethin?

[Maximus Groff]

Coming along great... cant wait for the head :D

[Blacklion]

Update................. sorta

Busy weekend didn't get much done.

I'll probably work late tonight. I've been trying to set myself up to be as successful as possible first go round.

I took the SHITE comment to heart and did some cleaning up. I think it's better now but it still needs some fixing however; I dont want to get bogged down with too many details right now.

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/oakbeast/torso-51203.jpg

Anyway....heres my reference for the head. The BW likeness is a little too youthful so I'll roughen him up during the modeling process. I'm figuring that if i can get a good form and sihouette I'll be smiling .

Any suggestions or tips would be helpful THANX

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/oakbeast/clintfront.jpg

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/oakbeast/clintside.jpg

[Blacklion]

Update: START OF HEAD

Remember I'm new @ this so be nice. :wip:

I'm @ a bit of a crossroads right now..... well...... not really.

Actually.... I'm still focusing on form and getting a good shape.
The control shape dosen't have a full nose yet and I'm struggling with how to construct the rest of it cleanly @ the control cage level... With the nose layout done the other surrounding features sould define themselves quite easily I'm asuming .

ANY tips or suggestions on how to deal with the nose or in anything else in general would be welcomed and appritiated.
THANX

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/oakbeast/head.jpg

[rrobert]

Nice drawing you make from the head, clear sketch! :thumbsup:

[Blacklion]

Thanx Straightmark but I can't take all the credit.
I took my reference with a digital camera then printed copies and traced his likeness on my mini light table.
Always be mindful of your resouces is what i was told.
I'm not trying to get an exact likeness but if it's close i'll be happy .

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/oakbeast/MVC-005S.jpg
looks like a deer in headlights dont he?


The theory is that this should allow me focus on the from and shape of the head / face and not dwell on little details so much at first.


The whole process has me feeling as if I'm walking on eggshells.
need sleep gnight!

[Blacklion]

Help!!

I'm really not sure what to do next :shrug:
I've been perplexed as to how to get a good start for the nose for a good part of my day.

I'm weary as to whether this is serviceable as a control cage or not.

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/oakbeast/head2.jpg

ANY suggestions or tips would be very helpful as I'm just spinning circles at the moment.

Thanx

[Mithrandir315]

Hey man, your character is coming along really well! As far as the head goes, have you been to www.thehobbitguy.com? Upon skimming your posts I didn't notice any reference to that site, so I figured I'd letcha know about it. I think the fellow that created it is actually a cgtalk member, I've seen some of his stuff in the gallery. What you've already created looks kinda like his head tutorial, so if you've already been there disregard this I guess. :) He has some excellent stuff there, I think you might find it useful. Sooo, I hope that helps you out a bit.

JO

[Blacklion]

Thanks Mith
Yes I started with the hobbit guy method but found it too dense for my liking..... But in hindsight, I'm sure it was more I than the technique.

After my first shame, I spent most of my weekend (except seeing Reloaded) in front of CG talk reading and theorizing on the best methods / techniques to use.
God I'm glad I have an understanding girlfriend. :thumbsup:

Update: Not of the digital type really but ground breaking in terms of my understanding.

What I thought might become a project ending stumbling block has actually turned into what I've been searching for and should have been practicing years ago.
I'm no longer at the boundries of super sculpey where i could do detail and not worry too much about the muscular structure underneath, this was some mind numbing shit for me to grasp @ first!
(@ first reaction/ study :banghead: :banghead: then after realization :bounce:

So with pencil and printer I got busy on the muscular layout of my head drawings.
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/oakbeast/muscle-head-f.jpg
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/oakbeast/muscle-head-S.jpg

It feels correct and editing will be nessasary, the best part is that I’ve learned a bunch in the process! All I could do while watching reloaded was read the edgelopps of people's faces and make guestimations as to how to layout the efficient topographical shape to their faces. It was really cool and annoying @ the same time.

In short my topography and layout theory was suctacular!
It's not set up well for deformation and too many polys are in places where they won’t be needed. I had a dense control cage and no detail to show for it on the poly proxy. Mj polytools helped me big time in finding non-essential loops so I was able to edit the cage to this.

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/oakbeast/face2.jpg

I've got to do more reasearch and testing as to what nose building method is best that and the lips seem to be the most diificult areas. (any suggestions or tips would be great!)

No doubt I have a way to go but I feel much better about the destination now. :cool:

More to come

[Blacklion]

bump

No suggestions on the head cage? It feels like a good start but the structure could be better ... as to how it could be better...im still trying to figure that out.

I played with some diifferent nose methods but nothing i was happy with to show. My applogies for taking so long with this, my portfolio piece has turned into one of the greatest learning experiences I've ever had. :love:

Back to the board:wip:

[Blacklion]

Quick update before work
Way early proto of the head and body together.

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/oakbeast/head-body-shape3.jpg

[Spirit2029]

hey blacklion sorry I havent replied in awhile, been busy., well looks like a good start for a first time through. But here's a really good tutorial on the direction you may want to go about building a head, this method is alot easier I find..

http://www.3dtotal.com/ffa/tutorials/max/joanofarc/head1.asp

Anyways keep going, the tutorial is for a female head, but applies for a male head as well. Laters....

Spirit2029

[Blacklion]

Yeah spirit I've must have looked at that tut a billion times and your right ...it's hella easier than what I was doing before.
I took some of his layout principles and some other examples I found useful then reworked the previous cage to this.

At proxy I get a pretty decent shape for what I already have. I just need to be efficient in the detail layout.

I constantly have to tell my self "get the form and the details will come" so it's been a stuggle but good mental practice.

Today was a mixed lot... figured out some issues on the poly cage.... went to work ...got laid off :thumbsdow .....now I've got plenty of time to finish him. :thumbsup: :shrug:

So next up.... the form of the lips and any muscular imperfections that need to re-routed or re worked .... If this doesn't work then I'll go back to the drawing board and use the full on joan of arc method.
I'm crossing my fingers I won't have to because it looks as though the edgeloop layout will work to my favor.

As usual any suggestions would be keen

Update:
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/oakbeast/update-5.jpg

Now I'm off to play GTA 3 as I've had a frustrating day.

Gnight!

[Blacklion]

Okay.... GTA must wait the area next to the nose botherd the hell out of me.
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/oakbeast/update-52.jpg

[Gremlin]

its lookin' good... im gonna have to play with the sculpt tool, see if it can make me some sweet lookin' abs (similar to the ones that I got :D)
Cheers,
:beer:

[Blacklion]

Thnx Grem
Keep workin @ those abs you'll get it beore you know it.

[Blacklion]

update:
http://www.pen2pixel.net/images/3d_02b.jpg

Just put some finishing touches on my website so modeling was slow going this weekend.

[Blacklion]

Been a while since my last post, I thought I'd have more time to work since I was layed off...but not the case......yet.

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/oakbeast/update-7.jpg

Not much has changed but I put my first set of eyelids in. Not perfect by a long shot, but I felt better about the method after doing it. I think I was avoiding it because I did'nt trust the process ...... yeah like that helps :hmm:

Anyway I'm gonna give the lids another shot and they should turn out better next time around. Best thing is that it did'nt take nearly as long as i thought it would to get something halfway decent.

More to come

As usual, any suggestions would be helpful

[GrandCherub]

ah well this really looks great!, the torso is amazing and very clean.

the face however got some problems, mostly the way you seem to mix femaleish with maleish face features. You should consider pulling out the cheeks a bit and stretch the lip a bit. And also conisder pulling the eyebrows down a bit

keep it up :beer:

[Blacklion]

Thanx for the suggestions Grand, good observation. However, I want to make it clear that as of now it's all about the form.

What I mean by that is that right now the proxy version has a lot of soft edges/details in the features (as most feamales have) I'm more concearned about getting a good approximation of where everything is before I go for the hard edges/ details.

I'm approaching this project as I would a super sculpey model where form is mostly suggestive then I make details that cause form to be more definate.

I haven't touched the cheeks and or lips yet; Thier pretty much place holder till I get to defining those areas. Hopefully I'll get to that very soon.
It's cool how minor details or the lack there of will show once adjacent parts have been defined more.
For instance, I haven't even touched the brow area yet but a sugesstion of it's form came about by me putting some time into the eyelids.

More to come and thanx for the comments

[Blacklion]

Update: More details on the head

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/oakbeast/update-8f.jpg

So now I gotta start on the lips and trick out the nose some more.
(Of course at some point I'll have to do the ears)
I'll leave the eye detail alone for a bit and come back to it. I know I'm not done by a long shot.
After that I've got to match the head to the torso and get one seamless mesh.

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/oakbeast/render-image.jpg

BTW
While it's on my mind ....Spirit.... if you're out there. I need some suggestions on clothing for his pants and shoes. I don't know if I should build low poly legs then build the pants over those or just model the pants period and make the edge merge tool work it's magic.

[Blacklion]

Face Update: . (I'll post control cage pics later)

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/oakbeast/test-23.jpg

I've still got a good amount of work to do on him (nose and lips in particular) . I hope to finish the ear and put all the parts together soon so I can get started on the legs and power cage.

Right now I'm reading documentation on mental ray so I've been side tracked quite a bit.... oh how deep this rabbit hole goes.

As ususal any suggestions would be keen. Especially anytjing concearning hair.
Thanx in advance and more to come.

[BiTMAP]

wow you've come a long way, good job! :D

[Levitateme]

that is looking great. i dont know what else to say your detail in the torso...whew! awesome.

[Blacklion]

Thanx for the comments guys. :beer:

It's been a blast doing this model; I love learning new things and techniques but I really need to get more focused and work faster.

I've got so many ideas I want to put down in this medium but the tougest thing to do sometimes is to finish what you start.
(ohh... so that's what a sketch book is for) :surprised

I'm trying not to put the cart before the horse because I still have much to learn ( the hyper shader is quite confusing right about now.) :annoyed:



More to come

[diazgl]

Great work man! Keep it up. The head needs a lot of work yet, Especially the ears and the eyes area. The eyes area is smooth and erases all details, and the general form is a bit off.

[Blacklion]

thanx

I can understand the ear comment (Hlaf way done and in it's own poly proxy. I haven't merged the two.

As for the eye ....yes it needs work at the folds and more definate corners; but I figured pulling the top edge lids down for a closed eye pic might shake things up a bit since I've been looking at him like this for the past week.

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/oakbeast/post-12.jpg


As far as general form.....please elaborate.
The bridge of the nose (pretty much the whole thing) and the adjacent edgeloops will be reworked.
I've got some serious work to do in regards to attaching the head to the rest of the body and making it match.
When thats done i'll solidify some things like creating a definate jaw line and a few other things I'm too tired to think of right now.

[Levitateme]

hi Blacklion
i was looking at what you want to define, the nost yah. but his head is stretched looking i would put a lattice on it and make the head not stretched looking. i hope you konw whati mean. also his eye brows, from the latest pic i think they need to be pulled out more. the look like there really sinking into his head the more they get away from his nose for exp .

[Blacklion]

Hey Levitateme thanx for the comments.

The eyebrows aren't really in yet IMO. I've got a ton of work to do in that area and pulling those brows out more is definately on the list.

As for the head and it being stretched; Do you mean bring it in like this?

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/oakbeast/alien-head.jpg

If so, I felt the head was a bit long but I figured I could fix it after I had the head and torso attached as one mesh. :wip:


Maybe I should attach them then fix that part..

If so.... Question....? How can u get a lattice to go over a part of an object and not the whole thing? Or can you?

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