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View Full Version : Help Needed!! The 3Ds Max equivalent of Fahrenheit Digital's Ribbon Spine System

Black_Fox
02-12-2008, 12:04 AM
Hi there gang!
First of all, i want to thank all the people that have helped me out with rigging in the past.
Much appreciated guys! :thumbsup:

Now on to the problem.

I need to create the equivalent of a (in Maya) ribbon Spine System in 3DsMax. If you're wondering, the specific one i saw was from Fahrenheit Digital's rigging tutorial.
If you are familiar with that rig, could you please tell me which method you would use to 'transfer' that system in Max? Specifically, my questions are these:

1) Would you use Nurbs like in the particular rig?
2) How would you create and constrain a point at the center of each face, so that wherever the face moves or rotates, the pointer does too?

For those who are not so familiar with that rig, here is a description:


Using a nurbs plane with a few subdivisions (the way you would use a line to make a spline IK system on Max) they select the nurbs plane and use 'create hair' on it (!!) . What that does is create a point and a line in the center of each face of the nurb. Then they delete the lines, keeping only the points, which are constrained to the faces in such a way that wherever the face moves or rotates the pointer does the same.
The rig goes on from here but these are the parts that puzzle me.

So how would you do it? Would you use a Nurbs plane or something else? And how would you constrain a point at the center of a face??

Well, thats all for now folks. I hope i didnt over complicate it.
Please, even the slightest advice can prove very helpful!


Thanks again for your help in the past and in advance. ;-) :thumbsup:
craiggulow
02-12-2008, 01:32 AM
PM me with an email address and I'll email you a small max 9 (32) scene that you can examine and take apart.
PhilipMelancon
02-12-2008, 02:22 AM
You could use an Attatchment controller, simple and effective
PEN
02-12-2008, 12:41 PM
Go with a patch down the center and don't use Nurbs for this in Max. Then use the attachment constraint and attach to the surface the point helpers. You can then either directly skin to the helpers or rig in bones to be driven by them. Also you could have a look at skin wrapping to the actualy patch object to get very flexible deformations.
Black_Fox
02-12-2008, 03:38 PM
Thanks a lot for the effort guys! (Thanks for the file Craiggulow)

Surprisingly the attachment constrain worked rather well. I've had some bad experience with it in the past and was kinda reluctant to use it. it's kinda tricky to position accurately.
But it did work correctly and i did manage to get what i wanted... somehow...

Pen i tried using patch instead and it worked great. I pretty much figured the rest the same way BUT... and here's the thing... how would you rig bones on the attached helpers AND make the bones stretchy?

My problem is that since the helpers are orientation constrained on the faces, i can't rig the bones in such a way that they keep looking at each to stretch. Any tips?

That is generally the problem i'm having. I'm trying to create a spline IK system with stretchy bones in which you can rotate the bones individually, but since the pointers are orientation constrained to each other (so the bones stretch correctly) i can't figure out how to do it.

I've never used skin wrap in such a way. I'll test it.
eek
02-12-2008, 03:59 PM
Thanks a lot for the effort guys! (Thanks for the file Craiggulow)

Surprisingly the attachment constrain worked rather well. I've had some bad experience with it in the past and was kinda reluctant to use it. it's kinda tricky to position accurately.
But it did work correctly and i did manage to get what i wanted... somehow...

Pen i tried using patch instead and it worked great. I pretty much figured the rest the same way BUT... and here's the thing... how would you rig bones on the attached helpers AND make the bones stretchy?

My problem is that since the helpers are orientation constrained on the faces, i can't rig the bones in such a way that they keep looking at each to stretch. Any tips?

That is generally the problem i'm having. I'm trying to create a spline IK system with stretchy bones in which you can rotate the bones individually, but since the pointers are orientation constrained to each other (so the bones stretch correctly) i can't figure out how to do it.

I've never used skin wrap in such a way. I'll test it.


Just make the bones look at the points along the spine with a look-at constraint. You could parent an additional point off to the side to the original attachment constrained point, to use as the upNode of the lookAt for the twist.
Black_Fox
02-12-2008, 05:07 PM
(is it just me or is it always the same guys answering the rigging questions?)

The upNote yeah, it comes down to that again i guess... i was just wondering if there was a more direct way for that.
From what i've seen in maya, if you constrain an object between another two you can still move and rotate it around individually. That sure gives it an edge.
If i create a rotation list it's not gonna work either is it? darn it.


Thanks Eek.
eek
02-12-2008, 07:42 PM
(is it just me or is it always the same guys answering the rigging questions?)

The upNote yeah, it comes down to that again i guess... i was just wondering if there was a more direct way for that.
From what i've seen in maya, if you constrain an object between another two you can still move and rotate it around individually. That sure gives it an edge.
If i create a rotation list it's not gonna work either is it? darn it.


Thanks Eek.

Just put the look-at constraint under a float_list, and set active the 2nd controller i.e 1st: look_at, 2nd: euler_xyz. Set-active the the second one.
craiggulow
02-12-2008, 08:46 PM
Black fox, the file I sent you pretty much has all the stuff Eek and PEN are talking about (except the ribbon is a poly object, not a patch). Open the layer manager to see the hidden stuff. Dig into the controllers on the bones and the point helpers.
One thing that might make it clearer is to remove the Path deform from the ribbon. Leave the bend if you want to play with those custom controls, but try different modifiers.

For my own uses, I haven't found ribbons to be that great for spines (which is, I assume, how ribbons are commonly used in Maya), but really good additional controls for tentacles and tails and the like.
Black_Fox
02-13-2008, 04:42 PM
Just put the look-at constraint under a float_list, and set active the 2nd controller i.e 1st: look_at, 2nd: euler_xyz. Set-active the the second one.

Wow. That kicked ass.
I was actually trying to do that a long time now, but i was doing it the wrong way around... lol
Very cool. Thanks mate :)
eek
02-13-2008, 05:26 PM
Wow. That kicked ass.
I was actually trying to do that a long time now, but i was doing it the wrong way around... lol
Very cool. Thanks mate :)

My pleasure.
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