New Great Head Modeling Tutorial

[Halogen]

hehe thanks, it was mentioned in this thread

http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=58211

=P

[ThirdEye]

Ooops :p

[squidinc]

cool, I'm definately gonna have a go at this one :eek: :thumbsup:

[That Adrian Guy]

DO IT SQUID!!!! DO IT!!!! We can work on a collab or something!!!! w000t!


...I officially like that tutorial better than the www.evil-plan.com tutorial.

Thanks!!!

[sebek27]

thirdeye: how long have you been using Cinema for ? also, did you go through the tutorials that came with the software ? how about the whole manual ? i decided i will do the tutorials that come with c4d maybe i'll learn new things that will help me finally understand how to model a car... i should be starting with easier things to model, but i just really want to model a car badly !
trial and error i guess..

[flingster]

its worth going an looking at that guys galleries also...has some very funky stuff in there...
eg.
http://www2.ocn.ne.jp/~mimura/gallery/art_ill/fusion.html

http://www2.ocn.ne.jp/~mimura/gallery/art_ill/female.html

just go to http://www2.ocn.ne.jp/~mimura/ to see the rest.

[ThirdEye]

Originally posted by sebek27
thirdeye: how long have you been using Cinema for ? also, did you go through the tutorials that came with the software ? how about the whole manual ? i decided i will do the tutorials that come with c4d maybe i'll learn new things that will help me finally understand how to model a car... i should be starting with easier things to model, but i just really want to model a car badly !
trial and error i guess..

3 years more or less, only last year more seriously. Tutorials? When i started using C4D the tutorials were a joke, the only thing i've read in my whole life about C4D is the base manual, that was my 3D bible. Good luck! :thumbsup:

[AdamT]

Sebek, I really think that's a good idea. Tutorials only take you so far. If you don't have the background knowledge then you'll never understand *why* the tutorial author did it the way he or she did, and you'll have a hard time applying the lessons to different tasks. It's like in law school, they always tell you that the goal isn't to teach you the law--because the law is always changing--but rather to teach you how to *think* like a lawyer: how to analyze the issues. I think the same goes for 3D. Once you get the fundamentals you can do the same tutorial and it will mean so much more.

[JIII]

hmm thirdeye I think someone already posted that headtutorial in the tuts sub forum

look on page three at the bottom.

any way I suppose more posts are better than none.

[Katachi]

Someone posted this tutorial 2 or 3 years ago ;) This tutorial is from XL 6! But still the best head tutorial I have seen since that time for Cinema 4D.

Best
Samir

[flingster]

JIII: check the top of the thread...the poor guy said sorry...heh heh..

AdamT: yup i agree ya gotta somehow grasp the concepts as well as the workings of the software...all at once...no mean feat...hence the frustration element!
think like a lawyer huh...that explains it!
another thing though...is we are in a "creative" field so we shouldn't always think like artists...or should we...discuss....the winner gets the law degree.:shrug:

[JIII]

ohh looky it was deleted.

sorry if i steped on anyones toes not trying to do that.

[pixel8or]

This head tutorial looks very inviting.

I know I'm new around here, but I was wondering if anyone would be interested in having a tutorial thread where those who wanted to could participate in doing this together? Like the Joan of Arc thread in the Max forum. (I've been reading around here for a couple of months so I know about some of these other forums... I still have a soft spot for Max... it was my first experience with a 3D program. *sigh*)

Maybe get some tips on using v. 8 for this, since it was written for v. 6?

I know heads are not newby material, but I learn more if I have something challenging to do. And knowing I could get some feedback quickly would be motivating.

Would that be possible? Anyone else interested?

Just a thought...

[willog]

Well I am a newbie at this Pixel8or and I am giving it a try anyways :-)

I have one problem though, hope someone can help me, I am modelling using a symmetry as the tutorial suggests, however, it tells me to change the symmetry object into a single object in order to Extrude Inner the polygons for the mouth. I cannot find how to change the symmetry as requested.
Hope you guys don't mind me asking what must be a bit simple to you guys.

[pixel8or]

Same here, willog... I'm diving in. Sounds like you're already way ahead of me, though.

http://home.attbi.com/~moorerf/head01.jpg

This is all I can do for now... I have GOT to get some school work done.:annoyed:

What is it with 3D programs? They seem to cause shifts in the space-time continuim. I sit down to spend just a few minutes trying out another tool or tip and the next thing I know... 3 or 4 hours have gone by.:surprised

[ndat]

Originally posted by pixel8or

What is it with 3D programs? They seem to cause shifts in the space-time continuim. I sit down to spend just a few minutes trying out another tool or tip and the next thing I know... 3 or 4 hours have gone by.:surprised

I hear that!!! now please someone find a cure for time :)

[willog]

Not too far in front Pix mate, but I am stuck for the next move I just cannot fathom how to change the Symmetry into a single object :-(

[hmmdonuts]

To change the symetry into a single object, select it in the Object Manager, then press the 'Make Editable' button - you'll be left with a single mesh inside a null object.

cheers

hmmdonuts

[willog]

Thankyou hmmdonuts, you help is much appreciated. Cannot believe it was that easy :-)

[Artiztick]

You guys will have to keep us posted how u get on!

I tried following the tutorial, Its all great! Just the nose part really F*cked me up! Ive never seen someone work so messy lol, And then he miraculasy makes the polygons perfect?

Im curiouse to see how u go on the nose section

[kiwi]

Or the C key on your keyboard :) {make editable}


A good tip is when you get your head mesh looking ok make a copy and drag it into a null,then turn off the null and you can keep modelling and you know you have a backup,it also lets you experiment :)



Stu.

[bischoff_cj]

"Before editing mouth part, you should change the Symmetry object into a single object for a while. "

What I would like to know is why this is necessary? I understand there is a language barrier, but a little explanation of the "whys" would be nice.

[hmmdonuts]

It's because when doing the extrude inner / extrude steps, if the mesh is still in the symetry object then you'll end up with a set of additional polygons down the center axis that will mess you up eventually...

Try it and see!

cheers

hmmdonuts

[bischoff_cj]

Thanks Homer, I do intend to give this one a shot. I made some progress with the head tut fond here <http://www.creativecow.net/articles/labelle_jannis/head_ee/index.html>, and this one seems to be a nice contrasting method.

[JIII]

I can't say it enough use bunk timmer's head tutorial on maxon.net.

this is not a simple tutorial, but it goes over everyting you will need to know i.e how to make good eyes noses and mouths.

[pixel8or]

Update...

I spent most of the day on it.

http://home.attbi.com/~moorerf/head02.jpg

Tweaking and tweaking and more tweaking....

[JIII]

Looks good but If possible I would add another row of polys here.

This will really allow you to define the nose better.

[pixel8or]

Yeah, I will be adding more in the nose area, JIII. That's just the point I stopped at for now. It seems like it took forever to get that far. I feel sooooo sloooooowww.....:annoyed:

I'm interested to see how the nose part goes after reading Artiztick's comment.

[Artiztick]

I think tommorrow i will have a shot at this one again ;) So pixel8or aint on his own on this one, it'll be cool to compare and see....

When i did this first time, My nose came out pretty okay, just very creased!

I'll post my progress tommorrow ;) Stay tuned!

[Shademaster]

I really like this tutorial.
I never modelled anything organic, neither did I ever attempt to model anything organic + I am a C4d newbie, but this tutorial shows it to you the easiest way! I started experimenting immediatly and came up with this after a day of work:

[img src="http://www.3dtv.nl/pix_members/sidesmall.jpg"]

[Shademaster]

http://www.3dtv.nl/pix_members/sidesmall1.jpg

sorry for the link

:)

[flingster]

very impressive...like that you diverted from the tut...very brave if youre just starting out...

[pixel8or]

Nice variation, Shademaster. :thumbsup:

I'll try to work on mine some more this weekend.

Looking forward to see your work, Artiztick. I hope willog is still coming along.

[JIII]

Nice pic bud, but would I be wrong to say that you have used 3D software before?

really interesting pic. like a cross between a jellyfish and an alien.

This is interesting with more and more people converting to C4D, we are getting newbies who have tons of experience.

[Shademaster]

Thanks guys! :beer: , would love to see your variations :)

@JIII: I used to be in Bryce and Poser since I was 12, only got serious about 3d since the past 2 years. At a certain point I wanted to learn something more sophisticated than Bryce and started to look around other galleries on Renderosity. I found out that the most creative and beatifull (in my opiniion) work was found in the C4d galleries. Not that there isn't any in other galleries but I saw C4d had it all and was easy at the same time. So I downloaded demos from all the well known software companies and quickly found out Cinema was really fun and rewarding to learn, I felt like a tellytubby in candyland...:bounce:
And now that version 8 is out, cinema is just as powerfull as the big boys :buttrock: . I only got Cinema a couple of weeks ago and I am amazed by it's power and stabillty every day!

R8 is definatly on my wishlist :love:

[pixel8or]

Here's the latest from me. Having a hard time with the eyes. I'm just trying to get a good basic topology. Not working on detail yet. I don't know.... something doesn't seem quite right. Should the outside corner of the eyes be further back in the side view?

http://home.attbi.com/~moorerf/head03.jpg
http://home.attbi.com/~moorerf/head04.jpg

Any suggestions? It looks so simple, but every time I make some changes and look back at the tutorial examples it doesn't seem to match up.

[Shademaster]

Hmmm, that's why I kept coming up with an Alien :hmm: .
Only suggestion that springs to mind is that the outer corners of the eye are positioned too high. And maybe the points of the temples of the head should be a little bit more placed inwards.
Your model looks way cleaner than mine! Good job!

:)

[JIII]

the problem with the alien looking messh is in

1. the eye and
2. the nose.


the human eye socket is not an oval. like you have in your image it is more like to straight lines

the nose needs to be thinker. no normal looking human has a nose that thick. make a row of polys that is flat on the front part on the nose hypernurbs wiill make it perfect.

attached is a pic of what the points should look like and then of what yours are.

you have an elipse, you need more straight lines. Turn off hypernurbs and align your eye points like the drawing on the top. then turn it back on.

if you do it right it will be pretty impressive.

[Artiztick]

I tried doing the tutorial, i find it too complicated! Although it looks cool, to model as if it was clay, think poly modelling is a way easyer method for heads! personal opinion!

Well heres what ive done so far, with polys :thumbsup:

[pixel8or]

Shademaster- Thanks for the kind words.:)

Thanks for the tip, JIII. I made some changes trying to follow your example. I think it looks better.
http://home.attbi.com/~moorerf/head05.jpg

Now those are some nice looking eyes, Artiztick!:thumbsup:
I think you may be right about this method. The 'pushing clay around' idea was what appealed to me. But I read through the first part of Bunk Timmers tutorial at the Maxon site and it looks like a more practical approach. *Nods at JIII*

I think it would be better to know how the underlying polygon structure is formed. It has taken me hours and hours pushing points around trying to get the "clay" to look like the tutorial. I've found myself paying more attention to what the cage looks like than the model. Not a very efficient way to learn.:annoyed:

I also went back and looked at some of the heads in the Topology Research thread. Maybe this should be required reading for head modelling.:D
http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=38469&highlight=topology
I like the idea of having a basic mesh to work up from.

I may put this one on the back burner for now and come back to it later down the road.

Artiztick, are you still following that tutorial using polys, or did you start those eyes from a different reference?

[Artiztick]

Your head s looking allot better now pixel8or, i totally know whatu mean about spending TOO long tweakng! I was the same!

With the eyes i did, im just doing my own thing now! But i was taught by that tutorial that teaches point by point, i try not to follw it too much becuase i wanna develop my own technique

[pit]

This is the part you´re missing:
http://www.izware.com/news/pdf/derived-surfaces.pdf

[JIII]

Don't worry about too much tweaking. I have found that continuiously tweaking is a really good thing.

I am too lazy to tweak too much. however the best artists seem to tweak for ages (thirdeye).

[pixel8or]

Pit- Thanks, that's good stuff.:thumbsup:

Artiztick- Man, I see what you mean about that nose section! He doesn't show how he gets from one step to the next... just leaves you to figure it out for yourself with only a little mention of untriangulate and the bridge tool. That's ok, though. That's what I wanted, something that would get me using these various tools trying to figure stuff out. I still couldn't get it like he shows for the nostril so I ended up with an extra point on the outside of the nostril. Seems to work, though.:shrug:

I went through all kinds of various of cutting and untriangulation, delete and remake polys, bridging... even screwed up and picked a point on the back of the head at one part... had polys going from inside the nose to that one point. Took me awhile to figure out why I had funny looking folds around the nose.:annoyed:

JIII- I don't mind the tweaking. I know that's a big part of modelling. I just get into it so much that I completely loose track of time. A lot of my tweaking right now is experimenting as I learn.

I went back to this again after reading that document that pit posted. I did more work with HyperNURBS turned off this time. I think I was able to work a little more efficiently that way. It was surprising after trying it that way, turning on HyperNURBS, and seeing the results.:cool:

Here's the latest... Heh, so much for the back burner.
http://home.attbi.com/~moorerf/head06.jpg

Thanks for the help, everyone!:)

[JIII]

just to jump on this thread here is my little 20 minute experment with the head tutorial.

[pixel8or]

LOL.... 20 minutes!?

Bah!:annoyed:

Just kidding of course.

Woah... I see I left a mess around the bridge of the nose on that last post. I think it was from trying to do more cuts on the side in that area, then undoing it and saving it where it was at 'cause I was too tired to go on. Will fix it later...

[pixel8or]

Still picking away at this thing.... :insane:

http://home.attbi.com/~moorerf/head07.jpg

http://home.attbi.com/~moorerf/head07b.jpg

I know there are some whacky things going on with the topology around the cheek... the tris and all. I was working mainly on the nose and mouth area this time.

I gave up on trying to follow that tutorial exactly and started experimenting using some of the pics posted in the topology research thread as ref.

You should have seen what a mess this was two hours before I stopped and made these.:hmm:

[ThirdEye]

some suggestions

[Shademaster]

You got some good points there Third eye, something else I noticed was a seam running over the face, you can get rid of it by doing 2 thing:

1 Select all the points that are at the beginning of the symmetry object and go to Structure => Edit Surface => Set Value and set the value of the X-as to 0 .

2 If your seam isn't gone then it is probably your hierarchy, I noticed that the ideal hierarchy for Symmetrical objects is :

Hypernurbs
|
|
-Symmetry object
|
|
-Polygon object.

Hope this helps !

B.t.w. I really like the eyes and lips there! They look very 'friendly'.

:)

[pixel8or]

Thank you, ThirdEye. I appreciate you taking the time to do that.
:thumbsup:

Shademaster- I had one hyperNURBS/Symmetry stack nested inside another. I got to the point of making the first symmetry editable, then he said to add symmetry again so I made a second one.:shrug:

It worked... but as you pointed out, I had that seam. I got it fixed by copying the cube object and pasting it into a new view and saving it with a single hyperNURBS/Symmetry set. Thanks!

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