Boolean Rounding

[brammelo]

Hi Chris,

The first example is a standard option in Maya (no plugin). So yes, it should without a doubt be included in C4D. Makes life so much easier. Did you forward this to Maxon?

Cheers,
BaRa

[chris_b]

Yes... i submitted the suggestion using Maxon's online form. I also tried
<booletest@maxon.net> but the mail
was returned to me, undelivered :shrug:

Frankly, I am surprised more modelers haven't expressed interest in this feature.

[flingster]

that top image ability to do that would be very cool...and very fitting with usability.
my fingers are crossed that maxon take your comments on board at this stage while they have time and are currently looking at booles anyway....:thumbsup:

[JIII]

I think alot of people who have always used better boole have just gotten used to modeling with out boolean's

I have found this very useful in a model I am woking on now.

howeve it does have some bugs. when its in an object some times it just starts deleting points and ploys at random. They are not hidden they are actually deleted. This is annoying because it requires me to rebuild parts of the mesh.

also when trying to boolean into a curved shape sometimes it just can't figure out what to do. so all I end up with is a triinized model.

anyway that said its really helpful and if I didn't have it I would be screwed, or at least i would have less time on my hands to post messages like this.

[brammelo]

Hi guys,

I was messing around with better boolean and came accross the following: remember how the caps of extruded text are always a complete triangular mess (image on the right)? When you apply better boole on an extrusion, the mess is reduced - a lot! (image on the left).

I know this doesn't solve all of the deformation induced render artifacts, but it's coming closer!

Statistics: the one on the left has 58 tri's and 74 quads, the one on the right has 206 tri's.

Cheers,
BaRa

[flingster]

in a way that issue also ought to be included in info to maxon...as they seem to be working on it at present...surely all these additions/functionality could be done now rather than a relook later....imho
:bounce:

[AdamT]

Right--remember that Better Boole is a public beta. Please report any anomalies or suggestions to Maxon so they can be addressed in the final release.

[AdamT]

Recently I came across this excellent Lightwave plugin which allows the

This feature is also built in to trueSpace 6.x. It's the only feature that somewhat tempts me to upgrade my old copy from v.5.

One thing you'll notice, though, is that both the tS and LW tools require ngons to do what they do. Yet another reason we need ngon support.

[flingster]

chris_b has made the suggestion to maxon...but he also tried the booletest email address and it didn't work?
what can ya do...

btw how can ya tell it requires ngon? thanks matey.

[AdamT]

Originally posted by flingster
btw how can ya tell it requires ngon? thanks matey.
Just look at the pictures. Maybe a few of them don't use ngons, but most do--and some of those ngons have like 20-30 edges!

[flingster]

huh i've had another look...i can see quads and tris...
which image exactly...are we talking in this thread or on the external links?
:shrug:

[brammelo]

Sorry Adam, I can't see any ngons, only tri's and quads. Could you point them out?

Cheers
BaRa

[AdamT]

Here's a couple showing ngons:

http://bellsouthpwp.net/A/d/AdamTrachtenberg/roundT1.jpg

http://bellsouthpwp.net/A/d/AdamTrachtenberg/roundT6.jpg

[flingster]

the light the light its blinding me....:eek:

thanks...i was beginning to wonder there for a minute...

gimme NGONS MAXON...i can feel a re-awakening of old threads!
:rolleyes:

[Brucie Rosch]

Frankly, I am surprised more modelers haven't expressed interest in this feature.
I contacted Maxon requesting beveling & rounding with options for control, and I believe that lotsa people have requested this too. Of coutse, the more voices joining the chorus, the better:)

[Mike Abbott]

Better Bool is helpful, sure - but I'd really like to see Maxon deliver n-gons before they try and deliver more sophisticated boolean tools or rounding - otherwise I think they'll be building on a poor foundation.

Look at the number of polys in that rounded n-power boolean - it's huge. No problem if you are just working with a few objects like that, but if you need lots of rounded objects in a scene, you'll get poly overload faster than you can imagine.

As Adam points out, the Lightwave shots are showing n-gons, and the king of the polygon boolean - FormZ, uses a similar n-gon base (for its poly modelling).

The attached pic is a quick model I've whipped up which shows a FormZ version of that n-power model - everything that looks like one poly _is_ one poly. Say what you like about AutoDesSys and the work-flow issues of FormZ - I'd probably agree with many of them ;) - but those guys really know the technical stuff about manipulating polys. Yet they struggled for years trying to get good rounding tools working with triangulated polys and 'awkward' quads. Good rounding (in the style of the FormZ and Lightwave examples shown here) really seems to demand clean n-gon based models.

From one viewpoint you might say that the 'n-power' style of rounding isn't really 'rounding' at all - it's more 'controlled smoothing'.

I'd like (even) better booleans and rounding in C4D, but I'd like n-gon support better - and first.


Mike Abbott

[chris_b]

mmm... yes
I guess that sooner or later Maxon will have to implement NGons... imagine how much nicer Nurbs caps would look!

Without a doubt, though, this would be a huge undertaking and would necessitate a re-write of not only all the modelling tools, but also the render engine and probably scores of other low level features.

I wonder if it would be possible to implement a multi-kernel paradigm? Cinema could have three modelling 'modes' :

- standard polys (the current system)
- winged edge (NGons and Edge Loops)
- solid/surface (Nurbs based)

... all help together by a very robust mesher that could tesselate the models into standard polys at the end of modeling.

Where do all the Maxon guys and gals disappear to whenever we start talking about this stuff? ;)

[Mike Abbott]

Originally posted by chris_b
Without a doubt, though, this would be a huge undertaking and would necessitate a re-write of not only all the modelling tools, but also the render engine and probably scores of other low level features.

I'm sure your right on this - and that's the rub of course: as time rolls on it gets harder and harder to make a fundemental shift like this. But if Maxon really want to push into the 'high end' I think getting the _fundementals_ right (be it n-gons or whatever) is really key.

I wonder if it would be possible to implement a multi-kernel paradigm? Cinema could have three modelling 'modes' :
- standard polys (the current system)
- winged edge (NGons and Edge Loops)
- solid/surface (Nurbs based)
... all help together by a very robust mesher that could tesselate the models into standard polys at the end of modeling.


Interestingly this is similar to what FormZ have pulled off. Starting out as poly modeller, they've added parametric objects - and now, with V4, a full set of NURBS tools as well (real NURBS ;)). All the different methods are integrated to an amazing degree. So it 's possible I guess :)


Mike A.

[lllab]

oh yes cinema really needs a professional rounding tool.

at the moment formz 4 is one of the best modellers around, exspecially for technical and architectural stuff. its strange but really very powerfull.

we do more and more modelling also in cinema, which we use for animation and rendering stills, and we absolutels miss a decent rounding tool. formz also ist able of doing elliptical rounding with dchanging radius and so on. everything one coudl wish. on the other hand, cinema is a lot faster and its construction history in the modeller is superb.

i hope that v9 will strongly impriove with modelling tools (ngons, rounding, even better bools, etc)

cinema is still an excellent app though, i love it.

cheers

lllab
stefan

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