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Dagarik
02-10-2008, 02:05 PM
Current Progress Image:

http://gamingxs.com/shanecarr3d/images/portfolio/hammer/posed.jpg

Here are some images of where I am at with this character.

The concept (obviously I can't draw very well... it's just so I could get my idea on paper):

http://gamingxs.com/shanecarr3d/WIP/hammerwip/concept.jpg

High Polys (made in Mudbox):

http://gamingxs.com/shanecarr3d/WIP/hammerwip/high1.jpg
http://gamingxs.com/shanecarr3d/WIP/hammerwip/face.jpg

Low Poly - 4,642 Tris (inc. hammer and helmet):

http://gamingxs.com/shanecarr3d/WIP/hammerwip/low1.jpg

Before I procede with normal mapping I need to know what to do in order to get the best result whilst still being efficient in terms of texture resolutions and the unwrapping process. What I mean by the unwrapping process is whether or not I can get away with having overlapping segments in the unwrap? Eg. the arm (unwrap one arm, normal map it, then mirror it to the other side, using the same texture space). Also am I right in thinking that putting the rest of the finer details into the normal, such as that engraved pattern (on his shin guard in my concept image) would be more easily achieve using something like crazy bump?

What I want to get out of this character is a showreel piece that demonstrates an unterstanding of human anatomy and shows that I know how to create normal maps as I have not made a normal mapped character yet.

C&C most welcome, its the only way I will realise my flaws.

- Shane Carr

requiem2d
02-10-2008, 04:11 PM
Looks like you're well underway, I'll wait till you get to the non-organic to crit :)

antodonnell
02-10-2008, 08:19 PM
Hi Shane, good start. First thing I ll mention is the low poly mesh could be improved by further defining the muscle groups as your aim is to show anatomy. At the moment it seems like a block out and is not clearly picking out the various forms. I d say fix that before touching mudbox, normal maps etc. A lot of people jump into mudbox/z-brush with really nailing the model first. If it's not right at this stage it won't be later. Check out some photo reference a quick google on anatomy or body building will sort that.

As for your questions, Overlapping uvw's will leave artefacts ( red blotches mainly) on your normal map. Mirroring uv's like the arm will invert the normal map when it's displayed. Unless you have a game engine that flips the required channel for you. But you an try it out. Just do not overlay the uv's until after you render the normal for one arm first.

As for the details on the shin guard geometry will always give a better result so I d say model it. Leave all fine details like scratches, dirt etc for a program like crazy bump.

Dagarik
02-11-2008, 03:31 AM
Thanks Anthony, I just futher defind the lower poly Mesh, I had done this ealier but after going in and out of mudbox it lost some of its definition.

http://gamingxs.com/shanecarr3d/WIP/hammerwip/low2.jpg

antodonnell
02-11-2008, 08:41 AM
That can happen if your exporting the lower sud-div level from mudbox. I usually keep the low-res in max/maya. Do the high level in mudbox. Export it back to max/maya then render the normal map from there after tweaking the low to match and optimizing it. This can also be done in mudbox really so it is all the same. Personal preference. As I mentioned get reference spend a few minutes analysing it and the model. It will pay off. Can't wait to see this guy finished

Dagarik
02-15-2008, 03:04 PM
Here's an update of how he is looking at the moment:

http://gamingxs.com//shanecarr3d/WIP/hammerwip/low3.jpg

The helmet still needs texturing and that is a shadow on his left arm, not a texture seam. I managed to finally get his normal map working well and have been chipping away at his diffuse, spec, normal and emmisive maps (Crazy Bump is the best damn program ever).

I think at the moment his upper body looks a bit plain given my choice of having no armour there so I could show anatomy in my show reel... any suggestions on something he could have up there that didn't cover up the muscles too much?

- P.S. I have read some where that you can use Direct X shaders in 3D Max? Is there such a thing as a Direct X skin shader I could get a hold of? How does that stuff work?

gsokol
02-15-2008, 06:56 PM
The anatomy seems a little odd to me. This guy's arms and legs are soo beefy it looks like he wouldn't be able to move. I'd suggest doing an image search for muscular men and comparing how their anatomy is to what you have. Everything is looking pretty solid though.

Dagarik
02-15-2008, 11:31 PM
For the anatomical proportions I was aiming to make him slightly stylised, exagerating his bulk like the characters in Gears of War.

http://eat-sleep-game.com/reviews/gears/images/dom_shot.png
http://www.msxbox-world.com/screenshots360/ss/44/gow-e3-06-screen1.jpg

I agree though that he looks a bit odd in the that area, especially from the waste down.

Dagarik
02-16-2008, 12:14 AM
Here's a front on render to give a better idea of the proportions..

http://gamingxs.com//shanecarr3d/WIP/hammerwip/low4.jpg

HappyCookie
02-16-2008, 09:15 AM
There are only 2 things bothering me on your character, and that's about his arms : I think they're a bit short, and his hands seem way too small for such a muscular guy (and for Epic Games proportions too). Getting his hands bigger might also solve the length problem. And you might want to check the inner part of his arms, the lighting on the low3.jpg shot make it look like it has a really sharp edge there.
http://pix.nofrag.com/5/f/9/99dc1ba3b707a6b3d879c828b7cfat.jpg

Other than that, it's fine for me, keep going :).

Dagarik
02-17-2008, 01:15 PM
Thanks Happy Cookie, I have done like you said and made his hands bigger, which made his arms a bit longer aswell, I think the arms still might be too short..

Here's the latest progress, textured the helmet, gave him some eyes, that glow... I was going to originally give him some long hair but I think it would interfere with the helmet to much. I might rig and pose him tommorow, I have to start applying for jobs again soon, I have a tsumani of student loan debt heading my way very shortly. Damned money.

http://gamingxs.com//shanecarr3d/WIP/hammerwip/low5.jpg
http://gamingxs.com//shanecarr3d/WIP/hammerwip/low6.jpg
http://gamingxs.com//shanecarr3d/WIP/hammerwip/low7.jpg

vince22
02-18-2008, 12:29 AM
hi, i think the hands look short because the gloves are too long. if you ended them closer to the wrist it would make the arms look longer.

other minior things are:
adding a bulge to his crotch area
your character has limited rotation of his head with the length of the helmet

good luck with your model+job hunt.

SuperGatorHator
02-18-2008, 02:11 AM
As has already been said, the forarm doesn't look long enough. Also, the front of the elbow looks like it needs more definition.

Take these pictures in example. Obviously the muscles would be larger in your character, but the overall shape would remain the same.

http://www.arcspace.com/books/Leonardo/images/Leonardo-6.jpg
http://www.giustgallery.com/thumbnails/153-anatomical_arm_jpg.jpg
http://www.bodybuildingforyou.com/Images/exercise-workout/chest-chart.jpg
http://www.andrewdiec.com/Anatomy/Muscles-Arm.jpg

Hope this helps!

Horror
02-18-2008, 02:33 AM
I'm wondering how those arms will be in terms of rigging. I built a character some time ago with a very similar poly structure flowing from the torso to the arms.

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=39&t=479342

When I went to rig it I found that it was difficult to set the character up in a way that would let him raise his arms above his shoulders. Or maybe I just need more practice rigging? You tell me.

Dagarik
02-18-2008, 10:33 AM
Cheers fellas, It's annoying how I miss things like this despite using reference.

Here's a shot of the arm now, I realised that I had his upper arm was way to long, so I shortened it, extended the forearm a bit more and made the indent on the inside of the elbow larger (thanks SuperGatorHator).

http://gamingxs.com/shanecarr3d/WIP/hammerwip/low8.jpg

He now has a bigger crotch bulge aswell, I think shortening the gloves would be a good idea but I think it's too late to do now, it'd mean remapping the arms again I think... it might work out actually, because I did some stretching making the arm longer so that might fix it somewhat. </confusing ramble>

I'll get back to you on how the arms/shoulders workout Horror, I'm about to rig it now, but this mesh is kind of experimental for me. I was looking at some pro wireframes and they had similar structure so I copied them.

m1NDfReAK
02-18-2008, 01:39 PM
Looking good so far, a bit of anatomy issues still however.

From the back shot it looks like your serratus anterior is sticking out further than the lats. This is one of the bigger issues.

If you want to get that gears of war "bulkiness", bulk up the size of the lats. It will widen your character and make him look more muscular and bigger. It will especially help with the silhouette.

As for the arms, there is nothing defining the wrist. You want to slim down where the forearm meets the hand. It will give the arm a better silhouette and look more anatomically correct as there isn't enough muscle mass nor muscle fibers near the wrist to humanly produce what you have right now. In addition if you define that wrist more, it wont make your arms look as short. Also the fingers are still a bit too long proportionately to the hand.

I would bulk up the tricep as well. Right now your bicep looks like the same size if not a bit smaller than the tri. The tricep should take up 2/3 of the upper arm comparatively to the 1/3 the bicep should be. Right now the longhead of the tri isn't too badly sized and defined, but you need to remember there are 2 other heads to sculpt and define.

You need to remember that the pec inserts on to the humerus, as well as the lat. This is what makes up your arm pit for the most part. This doesnt appear to be true in your model. So when posed and animated you will have issues. Especially if those arms go above the shoulder.

Couple other things, the bulge in the crotch looks a tad high, from the side shot as well as the butt looks a bit flat.

Your on your way though Dagarik keep working at it, I recommend doing a lot of life drawing if you want to be a character artist. Knowing anatomy, not only what it looks like, but how it funtions and what muscle does what will greatly improve your modeling.

Keep posting.

m1ND

Dagarik
02-19-2008, 06:58 AM
That's some awesome feedback thanks m1ND, While I may touch this char up some more I don't think ill be able to fully put into effect all the changes to make the anatomy right without going right back to the start, in which case I think I would prefer to start a new character soon so I can have a fresh idea to work on. I will also look into doing some life drawing and researching muscle structure more in depth. Unfortunatley I have to start applying for positions and this guy despite his flaws is my best chance, it may not get me any work but it's my best bet at the moment. Otherwise I might have to do tech support :eek:.

Horror, it may be that I didn't spend enough time skinning or I simply modelled what I saw on some professional meshes wrong, but this shoulder structure doesnt seem to animate too well, when the arms get raised, like you said.

Here he is posed.

http://gamingxs.com/shanecarr3d/images/portfolio/hammer/posed.jpg

The fingers look bad I know, I blame the mesh....

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