behzad
02-09-2008, 01:32 PM
Is Maxon Cinema 4D big in the west, user base and also penetration in the movie and special effects industry? If not why not?
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ThirdEye
02-09-2008, 02:33 PM
C4D is big wherever Motion Graphics is an issue thanks to its MoGraph module, its multipass capabilities and its exports to all the major compositing and asset software out there (AFX, Combustion, Shake, Motion, FCP, Alienbrain). It's also strongly used in the archiviz market thanks to the connections with the Nemetschek CAD apps (Allplan, VectorWorks, Archicad) and the native dwg import. The engineering edition is also capable of reading a load of file formats (IGES, etc) so it's strongly used for product viz as well, also for its NPR module: Sketch&Toon. The integration with Maxon Bodypaint3D (basically since r10 C4D and BP3D are the very same thing with a different default layout) makes it the tool of choice of many game and film studios for both texture painting and matte painting (thanks to its camera mapping tools). Since r10 it's also got a strong character animation toolset and external references, which make it a strong competitor in the CA market. The biggest problem right now is there's not so many experienced C4D users to fill the market's requests. For more info visit: www.maxon.net
Katachi
02-09-2008, 03:19 PM
C4D is big wherever Motion Graphics is an issue thanks to its MoGraph module, its multipass capabilities and its exports to all the major compositing and asset software out there (AFX, Combustion, Shake, Motion, FCP, Alienbrain). It's also strongly used in the archiviz market thanks to the connections with the Nemetschek CAD apps (Allplan, VectorWorks, Archicad) and the native dwg import. The engineering edition is also capable of reading a load of file formats (IGES, etc) so it's strongly used for product viz as well, also for its NPR module: Sketch&Toon. The integration with Maxon Bodypaint3D (basically since r10 C4D and BP3D are the very same thing with a different default layout) makes it the tool of choice of many game and film studios for both texture painting and matte painting (thanks to its camera mapping tools). Since r10 it's also got a strong character animation toolset and external references, which make it a strong competitor in the CA market. The biggest problem right now is there's not so many experienced C4D users to fill the market's requests. For more info visit: www.maxon.net (http://www.maxon.net)
Can we get a sticky with just this text Alberto? :D Great summary to me.
Can we get a sticky with just this text Alberto? :D Great summary to me.
Rabbitroo
02-09-2008, 05:43 PM
What Alberto said. Another few miles and we'd be in the Pacific Ocean.
-K
-K
Quadart
02-09-2008, 05:46 PM
I give ThirdEye’s summary 5 stars.
bluecanvas
02-09-2008, 05:51 PM
Is Maxon Cinema 4D big in the west, user base and also penetration in the movie and special effects industry? If not why not?
Cinema 4D was developed in Europe, starting as a small software for the Amiga in 1991. European filmmakers make cultural films vs the VFX spectacles Hollywood makes money with, so a small European company like Maxon had to target regular 3D users to grow instead of the LA VFX production pros targeted by American and Canadian 3D tool makers.
To be suitable for regular 3D users, which are a diverse crowd with less specialized training, Cinema 4D had to be user friendly and efficient at a lot of common 3D tasks.
That efficiency has allowed it to take motion and broadcast graphics by storm. It made Cinema 4D good for anything 3D that needs to be done quickly and efficiently. It may move it increasingly into big film VFX as well.
Its a 3D software that simply took a different path from Maya and XSI which have their roots in high-end Hollywood VFX.
Cinema 4D was developed in Europe, starting as a small software for the Amiga in 1991. European filmmakers make cultural films vs the VFX spectacles Hollywood makes money with, so a small European company like Maxon had to target regular 3D users to grow instead of the LA VFX production pros targeted by American and Canadian 3D tool makers.
To be suitable for regular 3D users, which are a diverse crowd with less specialized training, Cinema 4D had to be user friendly and efficient at a lot of common 3D tasks.
That efficiency has allowed it to take motion and broadcast graphics by storm. It made Cinema 4D good for anything 3D that needs to be done quickly and efficiently. It may move it increasingly into big film VFX as well.
Its a 3D software that simply took a different path from Maya and XSI which have their roots in high-end Hollywood VFX.
Francky
02-10-2008, 04:10 AM
If I might add my two cents in, to continu on bluecanvas train of thought... I find that for the moment, it is best suited for smaller production, as it is missing some key tools that big effect houses need. (Solid render farm manager, Render Pass system, More complete render tools, Solid Xref system)
Obviously a lot of these are being addressed already, as we had a first draft of an Xref system in 10.5. (though a bit unusable for animation pipelines for now.)
Renderers like Vray, Maxwell and Final render complete the rendering aspect also. My favorite being by far Vray, but since it's still new, it is missing some basic features for now. Obviously I'm sure these will be addressed in due time. (soon hopefully ;))
As far as Render farm managers, C4D's in need of a major overhaul, but other solutions exits, like Smedge or others. Though unfortunetly as of now, there is no way to render withouth installing a fully licenced copy on each machine with third party managers. A huge problem if you only have mac licences for now and your farm is Windows Based (like me.. doh) The big problem with this obviously is that you need to have PC licenses of all the plugins you've purchased, as they can't tell you are rendering on a farm...
And the last missing tool (well at least in my book) is a Render Pass Manager, luckely again, some are working on such tools. (I had even started a thread inquiring about this)
I'm starting my own studio myself and even though all these aspects are missing, I decided to "scrap" my current pipeline of XSI to switch to C4D, for a couple of simple facts. It might sound stupid, but C4D is FUN to work with. The interface makes it a breeze to work with, much more so than all other packages I've work with in the last 15 years. Second thing was the Price, if I do get this thing started I will need to buy a lot of licences. C4D being modular, it makes it very attractive for a studio as I only need to buy the modules I need per workstation. That and no maintance fee is a huge gain.
For example, had I stayed with XSI, I'd have to spend 2 to 3 times the price of C4D per station AND a yearly maintance fee almost as expensive as all of C4D. So yeah, C4D was quite attractive to this "perhaps future" studio. lol
Obviously it is less "mature" than products like XSI, missing a lot of the animation tools and such, but all the perks in the ease of scripting, rigging and controls will make up for than I'm sure :)
Anyways, that was My 2 cents.... (Yeah ok, more like 2 dollars worth, sorry :p)
Francois Beaudry
Big Fuzzy Dice productions
Obviously a lot of these are being addressed already, as we had a first draft of an Xref system in 10.5. (though a bit unusable for animation pipelines for now.)
Renderers like Vray, Maxwell and Final render complete the rendering aspect also. My favorite being by far Vray, but since it's still new, it is missing some basic features for now. Obviously I'm sure these will be addressed in due time. (soon hopefully ;))
As far as Render farm managers, C4D's in need of a major overhaul, but other solutions exits, like Smedge or others. Though unfortunetly as of now, there is no way to render withouth installing a fully licenced copy on each machine with third party managers. A huge problem if you only have mac licences for now and your farm is Windows Based (like me.. doh) The big problem with this obviously is that you need to have PC licenses of all the plugins you've purchased, as they can't tell you are rendering on a farm...
And the last missing tool (well at least in my book) is a Render Pass Manager, luckely again, some are working on such tools. (I had even started a thread inquiring about this)
I'm starting my own studio myself and even though all these aspects are missing, I decided to "scrap" my current pipeline of XSI to switch to C4D, for a couple of simple facts. It might sound stupid, but C4D is FUN to work with. The interface makes it a breeze to work with, much more so than all other packages I've work with in the last 15 years. Second thing was the Price, if I do get this thing started I will need to buy a lot of licences. C4D being modular, it makes it very attractive for a studio as I only need to buy the modules I need per workstation. That and no maintance fee is a huge gain.
For example, had I stayed with XSI, I'd have to spend 2 to 3 times the price of C4D per station AND a yearly maintance fee almost as expensive as all of C4D. So yeah, C4D was quite attractive to this "perhaps future" studio. lol
Obviously it is less "mature" than products like XSI, missing a lot of the animation tools and such, but all the perks in the ease of scripting, rigging and controls will make up for than I'm sure :)
Anyways, that was My 2 cents.... (Yeah ok, more like 2 dollars worth, sorry :p)
Francois Beaudry
Big Fuzzy Dice productions
Sycar
02-11-2008, 04:16 PM
Good info! Thanks.
jidus
02-11-2008, 04:39 PM
wow. that is definitely good info to know! I've been working with 3dS max for a while, now... and recently learned maya's interface. however Ohio State's animation program teaches C4D. I was a bit sceptical about this. Now i feel a little better :P, thanks!
Matteo-Sacco
02-11-2008, 07:48 PM
:) Ah, ThirdEye....Cinema4D Honored Member :)
govinda
02-11-2008, 08:09 PM
Yes, it is big, in the West,
It is big in a nest.
It is big with studios of freelancers,
It is big according to all answers.
It does just fine with after effects,
It gets you quickly to digital sex.
It goes very well with green eggs and ham,
All these strange questions, like someone burst the dam!
It is big in a nest.
It is big with studios of freelancers,
It is big according to all answers.
It does just fine with after effects,
It gets you quickly to digital sex.
It goes very well with green eggs and ham,
All these strange questions, like someone burst the dam!
AAAron
02-11-2008, 08:54 PM
Yes, it is big, in the West,
It is big in a nest.
It is big with studios of freelancers,
It is big according to all answers.
It does just fine with after effects,
It gets you quickly to digital sex.
It goes very well with green eggs and ham,
All these strange questions, like someone burst the dam!
Like music for the ears, you put a BIG smile on my face :D
It is big in a nest.
It is big with studios of freelancers,
It is big according to all answers.
It does just fine with after effects,
It gets you quickly to digital sex.
It goes very well with green eggs and ham,
All these strange questions, like someone burst the dam!
Like music for the ears, you put a BIG smile on my face :D
casshern
02-12-2008, 05:23 PM
C4D is big wherever Motion Graphics is an issue thanks to its MoGraph module, its multipass capabilities and its exports to all the major compositing and asset software out there (AFX, Combustion, Shake, Motion, FCP, Alienbrain). It's also strongly used in the archiviz market thanks to the connections with the Nemetschek CAD apps (Allplan, VectorWorks, Archicad) and the native dwg import. The engineering edition is also capable of reading a load of file formats (IGES, etc) so it's strongly used for product viz as well, also for its NPR module: Sketch&Toon. The integration with Maxon Bodypaint3D (basically since r10 C4D and BP3D are the very same thing with a different default layout) makes it the tool of choice of many game and film studios for both texture painting and matte painting (thanks to its camera mapping tools). Since r10 it's also got a strong character animation toolset and external references, which make it a strong competitor in the CA market. The biggest problem right now is there's not so many experienced C4D users to fill the market's requests. For more info visit: www.maxon.net (http://www.maxon.net/)
I'm going to memorize this and use it when somebody gives me a weird look when I tell them I use Cinema 4D instead of something like Maya or 3DS. (And this happens a lot )
I'm going to memorize this and use it when somebody gives me a weird look when I tell them I use Cinema 4D instead of something like Maya or 3DS. (And this happens a lot )
Fuxianer
02-14-2008, 02:18 AM
I started with 3DMax about 5 years ago used Maya for the last 4 years (which made me realise how badly 3DMax is designed) and now have to switch to C4D because of my work situation. I just started to learn it by watching video tutorials (which a lot of them are for free) and I'm really impressed with the usability and stability.
I would recommend it to anyone who is not doing high end VFX. The C4D modeling is much better than the Maya modelling, the rendering in C4D is really good for quick and easy setups and moGraph is a designers playground, there is no way you could set up anything like it in Maya that easy and quick.
C4D is made for everyone, Maya is made for scientists and 3DMax is made for the bin. I'm convinced that we will see more and more 3D operators using C4D in the future for those reasons.
I would recommend it to anyone who is not doing high end VFX. The C4D modeling is much better than the Maya modelling, the rendering in C4D is really good for quick and easy setups and moGraph is a designers playground, there is no way you could set up anything like it in Maya that easy and quick.
C4D is made for everyone, Maya is made for scientists and 3DMax is made for the bin. I'm convinced that we will see more and more 3D operators using C4D in the future for those reasons.
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