Is 3DS dying in popluarity since Autodesk buyout?

[martinc]

Ages, I would take a look at the tutorials that ship with Max. That should get you going. Also, I highly recommend you checking out the discreet support forum. There are lots of users and from time to time, developers there that will more than likely answer your question within an hour.

Also, FWIW, 3DS has always been owned by Autodesk. Kinetix was a division of Autodesk, and then Autodesk aquired Discreet Logic and added Max under the discreet umbrella. I think it's still pretty popular and growing.

Martin

[doug_]

Ages, im also in australia (sydney) and i've found the same thing that you have. Even though i've been using MAX for 3 years i still class myself as a newbie, but if you stick it out, you can learn a huge amount on your own by asking questions here or at any of the other large number of forums dedicated to MAX. Also as Martin said there are also the tuts that came with MAX and thousands more online which has almost always covered anything i've ever wanted to know, if you want anymore info from me don't hesitate to ask :)

[erilaz]

Another Aussie, but I've never had a problem getting resources to learn. Courses are expensive, but so are most courses about anything in the computer field. I've found top support from the discreet forum, with users and developers alike.

There are still universities using 3ds max (like Swinburne). I agree however that there are not many 3d application specific courses available in melbourne.

Which 3d max communities are you referring to?

And as doug said, feel free to ask us anything!:D

[robo3687]

I am also an aussie, using MAX, I'm still in school though,

Books on max seem to be the hardest thing for me to come by these days, oh and decent charcter animation tuts.......

but with limited money i can't find much.......it all went on half of the MAX payment (parents payed the other half)

MAX is extremely useful for me.....i've been adding small animations to presentations for computer classes.........and doing 3d art for other assignments..........i'm getting the modelling pretty down pat at the moment.......still need organic modelling help though.......

But yeh if you stick at it you will get the results

[pluMmet]

since it went from Autodesk/Kinetix to Autodesk/Discreet they have sold over 50,000 new licenses (I don't know how many people are upgrading regularly though.) I do know however that 3ds Max is the second most sold 3d package. Cinima 4d is No.1 (mostly beacuse of price.) Max however, even being second has a huge lead over the other 3 majors (LW,Soft,Maya.) Not to mention how well AutoCAD and Combustion, Flame, Flint, Inferno, Frost and the rest are doing (which is very well.) Discreet doesn't toot their horn as much as the others (Softimage not included, They let the package speak mostly for itself.) Discreet plans on keeping their lead. The price drop of Maya came at a bad time (just when R5 was coming out) and Discreet had little time to react. Well R6 comes out around April 2004, I fully expect that I will not be questioning if I'll upgrade. They have more recources than all the others combined (errr... Softimage is no longer owned by a Microsoft subsiderary is it???) well anyway they got BANK.

and just a quick piece of math: 50,000x$3,500=$175,000,000

and as for the tutorial problem you obviously don't spend much time looking. Not to mention the huge tutorial thread here on CGTalk>3ds Max forum.

And on a final note you can get a round trip ticket from Nashville to Australia (bargin hunting on the net) for about $1500. I assume the reverse (Australia to Nashville) is the same. The Ren. Center a.k.a. 3DBuzz.com has a 28 day intensive Max class for $2500 (housing included)...Saves $2000 off your $6000 dollar figure.

:beer:

[Bobo]

Originally posted by pluMmet
Cinima 4d is No.1 (mostly beacuse of price.) Well R6 comes out around April 2004...


About Cinema 4d - do you know how many seats they have sold? Just curious.

About R6 - this is, of course, just a rumor. :shame:

[Klytus]

It was better before Autodesk bought em out, before the programmers uysed to talk to the community and release great notes, now theres like nothing and everything i read refers to past achievments like "ohh we used 3ds for Quake 3 and Lost in Space"....

There's a lot more much recent stuff being done in Max. Lesse, these are the ones I know about personally where Max was used, a lot of them here in Australia:

Farscape seasons 2-4 (everything)
The Matrix II (some shots)
Lord of the Rings (some pre-vis)
Coronado (everything) (http://www.coronadothemovie.com/)
1200 Techniques music video (everything. Won Australian "Grammy" for best video) (http://www.element.net.au/the_lab/popups/lab_pop_art12003.php)
Sugarbabes music video "shape of my heart" (everything. Max team brought in after expensive Maya crew totally ****ed up) (http://www.sugababesuk.com/main.html)
The Quiet American (some shots)
Moulan Rouge (some shots)
The Crocodile Hunter Movie (everything)
Game cinematics for Ty: The Tasmanian Tiger (http://www.eagames.com/official/ty/home.jsp) and Ghostmaster (http://www.ghostmaster.com/)
All of Blizzard's cinematics (http://www.blizzard.com/)
Everything Blur does (http://www.blur.com/support/main_frameset.html)

And a whole lot more I'm missing. This is just stuff I've either worked on myself or else know (or know of) the people who did.

You're going to see Max used more and more in films now that renderers like Brazil and Vray are proving themselves as stable production renderers. I've seen some pitch work for a science fiction film recently done in Max+vray that is just breath-taking.

I too am seeing a contraction of 3dsmax use here in Australia, mainly due to Maya's price drop and Alias' "shock and awe" marketing tactics. Alias has people flocking lemming-like to software that while good, is not everything it's made out to be. As more and more "A" class work is done in Max, and provided Discreet gets the word out through it's marketing and does something more competitive with it's pricing I think we'll see things swing more into balance. XSI is going to be a force to be reckoned with soon as well, especially when it comes to character work.

And if the worst ever came to the worst, personally I'll learn XSI before I ever touch Maya.

[pluMmet]

Bobo MAXScript Evangelist- First let me say 'you rock dude'. I can't wait for Enlight (I think that's what your calling it.)

as for my FACTS :cool: the Cinima 4d info was found in a 3dworld issue, mabey 3 or 4 months ago...sorry I didn't buy that issue. Just thumbed thru it. And as for the R6, I'm supprised that you havent noticed the 18 month window for Max updates. My saying around April 2004, was just because I'm not exactly sure when R5 came out but the 18 month window has been consistent.


Keep up the Evangelistic work, we are greatfull:wavey:


EDIT***Hey Bobo...just noticed your One Finger Wave....dag dude chill. And if you wouldn't mind could you post the release dates of R3, R4 and R5. I think the 18 month window will speak for itself (:shame: right back at you.)***EDIT

[Reality3D]

pluMmet:

From a Brandon Davis quote at http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=53953


... There was an interview with one of the execs at Discreet who mentioned the development cycle of MAX would accellerate though. In the past it's been 18 months between major releases....

So maybe at the end of 2003 Max 6 will be released and finally Max7 as all the rumours say will be a complete rewrite?. I love digressing :wavey:

[Mahlon]

Originally posted by Klytus
There's a lot more much recent stuff being done in Max. Lesse, these are the ones I know about personally where Max was used, a lot of them here in Australia:


What about KAENA?!? If discreet needs to hype on something right now...... it's certainly going to get a fair amount of attention.

Mahlon Bouldin

[Bobo]

Originally posted by pluMmet
Bobo MAXScript Evangelist- First let me say 'you rock dude'. I can't wait for Enlight (I think that's what your calling it.)

as for my FACTS :cool: the Cinima 4d info was found in a 3dworld issue, mabey 3 or 4 months ago...sorry I didn't buy that issue. Just thumbed thru it. And as for the R6, I'm supprised that you havent noticed the 18 month window for Max updates. My saying around April 2004, was just because I'm not exactly sure when R5 came out but the 18 month window has been consistent.


Keep up the Evangelistic work, we are greatfull:wavey:


EDIT***Hey Bobo...just noticed your One Finger Wave....dag dude chill. And if you wouldn't mind could you post the release dates of R3, R4 and R5. I think the 18 month window will speak for itself (:shame: right back at you.)***EDIT


It is "eNLArge" (like in those spam adds we all know well ;)).
I haven't worked on it for ages... Too many other things to do.

Anyway, I know about the 18 month cycle of 3D Studio releases since the very beginning. Still, any speculations about future release dates are just that - speculations. I am not saying it will not be out in April 2004. I am just saying we will not know until it happens...

Here are the requested dates:

R3 was scheduled for June 99 and came out in July if I am not mistaken.
R4 was previewed at Siggraph 2000 a year later, announced in November and came out in January 2001.
R5 was announced in June and shipped late July 2002.

Even according to the 18 months schedule, R6 in April would be about 3 months too late. Christmas? Earlier?
Time will tell.

Btw, don't take emoticons too setiously :cool:

[xynaria]

According to various resellers, and indeed posts in this very forum R6 has been mooted as Q3 this year with little contradiction apparent.
According also to a post not that long ago on CG Talk Cinema 4D had risen to 3rd place in the sales stakes with Max still being No1.

Just going by job descriptions on jobs offered, here in the UK at least Maya has made some major inroads into the gaming industry with many now asking for Maya experience. :)

[Joel Hooks]

Hmm, that first post is wierd. I've never actually even seen any pay tutorials for Max. I've seen free ones like crazy, not to mention the set that it ships with.

Does AU have some sort of odd restricted web access?

I can understand why somebody just starting would feel uneasy about the software. There are some very vocal, less expensive, and genuinely quality alternatives out there.

Max is used heavily in non-entertainment. Arch-Vis, forensic, industrial visualizatuon, and many other fields that don't get much of a spotlight. I mean who is really interested in the phong shaded forensic piece done by AnyVis Inc.? Except for the client, the artist, and Autodesk anyway. :)

[mrapelje]

Aged probably had an old link to 3dcafe, they have you pay for tuts now. But back in 98 it was the only 3d site I really new of, and it used to be free, last time I looked it sucked, does not look like it has been updated from now to 98.

[amckay]

Australia is very maya dominated. But honestly, out of all of the places I've worked, I always seem to get onto a big feature with a strong maya team and end up doing all the more complicated effects in max. Don't get me wrong, I love exercising my fingers with pages of expressions necessary to do the most simple of procedures, but occasionally I enjoy getting the job done efficiently and right the first time, just for the hell of it :)

[BrandonD]

Sounds like you and I are in the same boat, Alan. What is always funny is that point when you start doing your shots in MAX and they start saying "dude, it'll be better in Maya" or "Yeah, but it'll look better in Maya." I've learned it's better to try and find an area where you can work well ignored and then show your stuff in dalies. Then the Maya guys start asking "how did you get the volumetrics to shade so nicely?" or "How did you get those hardware particles to matte so well?" Then you say it's MAX...a pause...then they start picking it apart..hehe

I kind of like that though. The REAL shame is in the end, when the article is written or when anyone asks, the answer is always "we did it in Maya."

PS side note, "Coronado" was pre-viz'd in Maya and the production shots were all done with MAX. That tends to throw people a bit.

[doug_]

Ages - one thing i didn't mention, i did have a three day private course with one of the guys who worked at the distributor where i bought MAX, it cost me about $3000, however even though it was a whole heap of money, i think it was worth it as it really got me in tune with all the basics quickly (an important thing in MAX, as i've found you have to enter at the bottom of the learning curve and work your way up). So perhaps that might be a way to go, i know you said the courses were expensive and you're right they are but i was in school at the time and raised the money by working :) and i figure if i can mange it then anyone can!

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