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View Full Version : Reasons to get 8Ggb of ram


Noomski
01-29-2008, 12:31 PM
Ok, so I'm new to 3d modelling but started recently using 3ds max and I'm happy to say I'm loving it. I've begun to make a car, trying for as much detail as possible. I've made the wheels and shell of the car etc and today rendered out the wheel and a question popped into my head.

I've added a couple of iterations to the smooth modifier and everything seemd ok. Then I added the tyre (again with 2 scoops of turbo smooth) to the scene and suddenly max tells me that I'm a bit lacking in memory. So I cancelled some startup processes and rebooted and ran Max with no other progs in the background and it seemed to work ok.

Then I realised that I'm gonna have four wheels, four tyres and the car shell and all the other bits and pieces needed to make up the whole car and its gonna be an animation. Now I think I'm right in thinking that as animations go its only going to render out one frame at a time so the fact it's an animation shouldn't affect the ram - but I could be wrong.

So basically I'm asking if I'm going to run into problems later when I come to render because my PC simply can't load all of the polys plus textures cos it doesn't have room? Could I hide parts of the model and combine them later in a video editing suite like Adobe Premier, After Effects etc.

Or, should I just go out and get 8gb of ram and a 64 bit OS and consider the matter dealt with? Whats the best practice to follow?

Many thanks to anyone who has the knowledge,

Mike

Srek
01-29-2008, 01:02 PM
I'm not private to how max works, but it sounds to me as if you were doing some overkill with polygoncount. A detailed car model should never ever come near the limits of a 32 bit OS.
Trying to squash the problem by throwing RAM at it will only lead to more problems not resolve them.
Cheers
Björn

biliousfrog
01-29-2008, 01:28 PM
I agree, there's always a trade-off with detail. You will soon learn that you only model what you need to. For large print graphics where you'll see certain details close up or for film work you will need to be a bit more detailed but for a normal animation, I doubt that you need all that detail. For starters, if the wheels are turning why would you need modelled treads, nuts, dust caps etc? If you don't see inside the car then why model all the detail? If there is a shot inside, can't you model a hi-res version of it and decrease the detail in the exterior? Download some free car models and look at the detail levels. Render a simple animation at the size you require with motion blur and anything else you need and see whether you're over-complicating things.

I have 4gb of RAM and I'm yet to run out despite some hefty arch-viz work at the moment. But, if I modelled every last detail, I probably would.

bunker
01-30-2008, 08:24 PM
You only need 8Gb, when you do massive 3D scenes ( with loads of textures, geometry or particles ), or if you render while you work : If you have a quad core, use 2 cores for rendering with Max and 2 other cores to do some compositing in After Effects or others, all at the same time.

About your "turbo smooth", I don't use Max but I'm pretty sure you can smooth the models just before render time. That won't make your render faster, but it a lot better to move/rotate "low-poly geometry" objects in realtime. If Max has subdivision surfaces, you should be able to display the car as a low-poly geometry.

It's generally a bad practice to smooth polygons a few times simply because it's heavy in memory, slow to display and very painful to edit/tweak. use SubDs like here ( http://www.geocities.com/susantio/tutorial/head11.jpg )

if Max doesn't have subDs, then I suggest you switch to Maya or Houdini instead :)

Szos
01-30-2008, 09:48 PM
Sounds like the typical new-guy solution of throwing hardware at a problem that is infact caused by lack of knowledge. :D

From the way that you are going, it sounds like even 8GBs wouldn't be enough if all you have is a couple of tires/rims and you are running out of RAM.

OPTIMIZATION is your friend. An entire - photoreal - car would easily fit on a 1GB system.

I am very curious - and yet almost scared - to see the wireframe of this model so far.

dan1el
01-31-2008, 05:59 AM
I assume you sit by a standard PC therefor you might want to look into purchasing a pro-card instead of a gaming card, the nVidia line called Quadro will allow you to have more polygons in your viewport and will be smoother to work with, thouh games might be abit worse.

as the others mentions I do not think that you need 8 GB of RAM because your scene is large, and also as mentioned you might want to look in to your workflow how to optimize that, alot of great animations are made on old very out-dated machines with limited specs. (here I'm thinking of a studio I know who untill recently made theyr rather brilliant stuff on dual P3 Windows 2000 machines)

ajcgi
01-31-2008, 01:14 PM
When I used max I used to use the meshsmooth option, keeping the settings to 0 iterations in the viewport and 2 at render time. That keeps your memory free for doing other things, but it really does sound like you have too much detail. Try to avoid subdividing polygons that run along straight surfaces of your car for example.
For the purposes of what you're doing, switching to a quadro just isn't necessary. I have a quadro here and an 8800gts at home. They're pretty much equal in the viewports.

davijin
02-01-2008, 03:37 AM
indeed optimization will probably help you the most, I know a guy last semester whos simple rendering with minimal textures and 3 lights (no radiosity or mr) took 14hrs at 4000x3000 72dpi in max. I was rendering at 4000 x 3000 at 150dpi rendering in Mental ray with FG and GI took about 20 - 60 min depending on the view. granted my was a bit faster than his laptop the only reason for the huge time difference is that I know how to optimize.

don't model things you cant see, or will never see. use maps wherever you can instead of modeling detail, dont over-smooth everything with turbosmooth and meshsmooth. look at some wireframes for good hi res-car models that are on the net and on this forum.

lots
02-01-2008, 03:51 AM
I assume you sit by a standard PC therefor you might want to look into purchasing a pro-card instead of a gaming card, the nVidia line called Quadro will allow you to have more polygons in your viewport and will be smoother to work with, thouh games might be abit worse.
Honestly for someone just starting out, and even for the more experienced, a Quadro is just a waste of money :P

Its not so bad though when various jobs get the card to pay for itself, but a hobbiest or someone just getting into it wont be in that sort of situation.

cooperunionstud
02-01-2008, 07:13 AM
you shouldnt need that much smooth iteration for the wheel, honestly, if you started out with 128 segments you should be fine. also, try use the "smooth" modifier instead of turbosmooth. You do not need to do 2 iterations of what is already a round object.

lmagnavox
03-23-2008, 04:49 AM
guys i have 8 gigs too with (xp64/max64/vray64)
the problem i have is; i try to test render evermotion interior scene and the Ram wont go more than 4 gigs all the time.
I switch boot.ini with \8GB ; it said available in task manager but max64 just wont take it.
It cant be because of the process doesnt require ammount of 8 gig of ram; because I tried to render in 20.000 x 10.000 resolution and still just take less than 4GB

Is it possible that RAM speed or Graphic Card affecting this?
all I can see is that 8 processor always runs in 100% mode (task manager)

how much affecting the speed of ram (fully buffered/ecc) from 533/667/800mhz for rendering purposes (max+vray)

my processor is 2x quad xeon 3ghz 1333fsb
and the test renders mostly done around 30 minutes in 1200x600 resolution
weirdly, max32 in the same system is 5 minutes faster

thanks alot

davijin
03-23-2008, 02:35 PM
adding a \8gb to boot.ini doesnt do anything since if youre running xp64bit your limit on ram is 128gb. I wouldnt dismiss the simple fact that your process may not require the 8gb of ram unless the renderer tells you youre running out of ram. if youre render doesnt render at that size and it gives you the hated "out of memory error" and you see you have 4gb free ram then there would be an issue.

But from what I see there isnt any problem, renderers dont have to use all your ram just like they take up all your cpu power. you just need enough ram so your renderer can operate properly. renderers are still afterall take mostly processor power.

also 64bit is a bit of a different animal the 32bit. it manages its use of ram a lot cleaner than 32bit windows. in 32bit you can experience all sorts of ram out of ram errors. for example I was editing a 10000x10000 pixel satelitte image at my school on e6600 w 3.5gb of ram on 32bit windows. I was able to do the edit but not save it because I ran out of ram. so I took the image home to my athlon x2 3800+ 2gb on xp x64 and I was able to edit and save the image with no issue. Ive been running xp x64 since its release and this type of thing has happened many times and ive concluded that 64bit not only lets you use more ram it uses the ram it has much more efficiently than 32bit windows.

Szos
03-23-2008, 05:16 PM
guys i have 8 gigs too with (xp64/max64/vray64)
the problem i have is; i try to test render evermotion interior scene and the Ram wont go more than 4 gigs all the time.
I switch boot.ini with \8GB ; it said available in task manager but max64 just wont take it.
It cant be because of the process doesnt require ammount of 8 gig of ram; because I tried to render in 20.000 x 10.000 resolution and still just take less than 4GB

Is it possible that RAM speed or Graphic Card affecting this?
all I can see is that 8 processor always runs in 100% mode (task manager)

how much affecting the speed of ram (fully buffered/ecc) from 533/667/800mhz for rendering purposes (max+vray)

my processor is 2x quad xeon 3ghz 1333fsb
and the test renders mostly done around 30 minutes in 1200x600 resolution
weirdly, max32 in the same system is 5 minutes faster

thanks alot

Wanna make a bet?

lots
03-24-2008, 03:19 AM
The process doesn't need 8GB of RAM. Its really just as simple as that :P

You only use the amount of RAM that is needed. Why waste the time and RAM on filling up all 8GB of RAM with nothing useful?

What is likely happening is Max is probably trying to handle the memory in a proper way so as to not be too hoggish. That and the scene just simply doesn't need 8GB :P

Why not throw some insanely high poly mesh at it and see if your usage goes up :)

Honestly, when you render you WANT your system to use 100% CPU time, or pretty darn close to it. You DON'T want it to use all your RAM.... :)

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