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tyler9879
01-25-2008, 04:28 AM
Here's a project I'm doing the concept is essentualy two paintings, one done via the style of Ancient Greek pottery like this
http://cache.eb.com/eb/image?id=85211&rendTypeId=4
and the other in a realsitc concept. Here is the sketch I have so far.
http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee213/tylers/greekpotcopy.jpg
I want to try to get some pointers on how to inprove this before I dive into it so any feedback is apreciated:D

CybrGfx
01-25-2008, 04:59 AM
When you say "via the style of Ancient Greek Pottery," do you mean in rendering technique of the Black Figure pottery style, or stylization of the anatomy of the figures, or both?

When you say "realistic concept," how realistic? Photorealistic, or comic realistic, or fantasy realistic? There are a lot of different realities in the world of art...

First off, you need to get a pad and pen, and write a Plan.
Start with what you are making, just like your post here.
Then address each of the two paintings, and write down as many details about that particular style as you can observe. I spot at 10 specific things about the Black Figure pottery ref that should affect your Greek version.

You need a bit more concrete idea of what you specifically want each picture to look like.
Write down the most important visual points of your drawing, and then address them with the observations of what makes the Greek Black Figure renderings that particular style.

Should be an interesting project to watch develop!

~Cyber

AlexNovo
01-25-2008, 01:12 PM
Hi,
Can you be more detailed please:), just i still dont understand what you want to feedback on and etc.

Realmdrifter
01-25-2008, 03:35 PM
If you are going to use a particular style for your illustration, may I suggest you get more than a single piece as your reference, the more the better.

And if you mean completely in the style of greek pottery - try to keep your figures both on the same pane, and also try not to use 3/4 views if you wish for the greek style of 2D art, get more reference and you will see the style, single piece of reference is not enough if you wish to convincingly use a particular style - especially historic style.

CybrGfx
01-25-2008, 04:45 PM
Actually, RealmDrifter, the piece of Black Figure refence IS very definnitive for that particular style of Greek Pottery. Other styles had very distinctive changes in rendering of the human form. That is why I suggested clarifying what specific points about that reference are of note. To attempt to use a multitude of Black Figure pottery images will only muddy the rendering.

"In the style of Greek pottery," is like saying "in the style of free-form poetry." There is way too big a historical base to work from without a smaller focus.

Tyler, the one thing about the greek example you DO need to take into consideration, with possible ajustments on your part, is that the example of stylized anatomy you have chosen is one of action. Your intended sketch is a non-moving, static pose. You may want to consider having one of the figures in motion, perhaps the man leaping down upon the woman...

~Cyber

tyler9879
01-25-2008, 05:11 PM
thanks for all the imput guys


ok more info

for the first peice I'm still trying to decide on is if the figures should be shown from the 2d side view perspective like it is on the pottery, or have a more 3d perspective like the sketch I have now where you see the figures chest and back from an angled perspective but still keep the features of the face and limbs like the figures on the pottery.

For the second piece I want to go for photo realism so the feedback I'm looking for the most is if the anatomy I've sketched is realistic in porportion and scale. this is another project where I'm trying to draw realistic anatomy with limited reference.

Realmdrifter
01-25-2008, 07:34 PM
Actually, RealmDrifter, the piece of Black Figure refence IS very definnitive for that particular style of Greek Pottery. Other styles had very distinctive changes in rendering of the human form. That is why I suggested clarifying what specific points about that reference are of note. To attempt to use a multitude of Black Figure pottery images will only muddy the rendering.

"In the style of Greek pottery," is like saying "in the style of free-form poetry." There is way too big a historical base to work from without a smaller focus.

Tyler, the one thing about the greek example you DO need to take into consideration, with possible ajustments on your part, is that the example of stylized anatomy you have chosen is one of action. Your intended sketch is a non-moving, static pose. You may want to consider having one of the figures in motion, perhaps the man leaping down upon the woman...

~Cyber

You are correct, I'm kinda tired - and late at night, I should probly read my post's before posting them - it's a bad habit of mine...

CybrGfx
01-25-2008, 08:30 PM
for the first peice I'm still trying to decide on is if the figures should be shown from the 2d side view perspective like it is on the pottery, or have a more 3d perspective like the sketch I have now where you see the figures chest and back from an angled perspective but still keep the features of the face and limbs like the figures on the pottery. Well, quite simply, you will NOT have any real 3D angled perspective like your sketch if you attempt ANY form of Greek pottery representation. It simply did not exist. ALL phyical anatomy on Greek pottery is of a 2-Dimensional perspective. It is in the postioning of the anatomy, with combination perspectives of front and side anatomy, and to what degree you want to incorporate it within your created image. That is why I suggested you study the historical style you are going to attempt to emulate. It doesn't matter whether your reference is early Black Figure (which this is), late Black figure, Red figure, or any other specific Greek pottery stylization, you will still be flattening and stylizing it in 2 dimensions. That's just the way it was back then...

For the second piece I want to go for photo realism so the feedback I'm looking for the most is if the anatomy I've sketched is realistic in porportion and scale. this is another project where I'm trying to draw realistic anatomy with limited reference.Quite honestly, you do not have the technical skills to go for realistic anatomy, without either extensive and concentrated effort to improve your anatomical rendering skills (how much time do you have for this project? If less than 60-90 days, not enough), of VERY GOOD (e.g. "live') references that you can then attempt to accurately render. If you have Poser, it would help some, but your imagination is not sufficient to render that sketch realistically, although you could probably muster a good "fantasy realism" work, similar to Frank Frazetta, if you try.

Just based on the sketch as you have it, I see you will have issues with the foreshortening of the woman's legs, and the mans outstretched arm. The legs have no hip structure, and the weight distribution is non-existent.

There are a couple questions as to why you are rendering a Roman Centurion in a Greek style, as well as why the "victim" appears to be a woman. The positioning of the helmet is strange, as well as the knife blade, but hopefully you will sit down and think a bit more about what you are attempting to render with your sketch. What is the story behind the action the viewer is seeing? Ancient pottery was often based on mythological heros, with scenes rendered of their heroics within various tales. You need a backstory behind this piece, if only to help you render it better, and more realistically, than just imagining it.

You need to firm up your foundation behind what you are going to paint and more importanly, why. Why that particular positioning, which is already presenting so many technical issues of foreshortening? Why not more side view? Why is this scene happening?

tyler9879
01-26-2008, 01:09 AM
The victim is not a woman but rather another man with long hair, I remember in this perticular period men with long hair were considered barbarians. the centurian helmet is actually an ancient greek helmet positioned ontop of the head so the face can show, this was common in greek pottery at the time. I think Ill go for the entire 2d perspective on the first peice and use this sketch for my secound one.

tyler9879
01-26-2008, 04:21 AM
heres the new 2d sketch

http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee213/tylers/greeksketchescopy.jpg

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