A good chair

[elvis]

[EDIT] i am a moron. ignore me.

[paultheplumber]

Originally posted by SporQ
http://www.sit4less.com/images/s4l_tempur-pedic_kneeling_chair_150x168.jpgThat's know as the "trade your back pain for knee pain chair." I've never found those to be really comfy. In that position you have no back support, so if you normally hunch you will continue to do so.

There's a reason that the kneeling chair fad has gone away and the Aeron chairs haven't. You can get the Aerons for $600 if you look around.

And get some vitamins! A lot of lower back pain is nutritional.

[SporQ]

hehe, guess that's what a diet of caffeine and cigarettes will do to ya. :) thanks for the nutrition tip, didn't even consider that.

[singularity2006]

u can easy that back pain a lot just by sticking something underneath your feet so u are in a psuedo recline position. My computer table has a shelf for stuff under where my feet usually are so instead of a shelf, i put a nice comfy pillow and stick my feet up. Next of all, i slacken the back of the seat a lot so i can recline... I'm never perpendicular (my back to the chair) which reduces the direct force on ur lower back. I've got lotsa tips about ergonomics if yah wanna know more. ^.~

[SporQ]

Boy, just did that feet thing and that helped tons, so yeah, keep em coming, lol.

But I have noticed that in other chairs it's not as bad, so I for sure wanna replace this one. So any suggestions are welcome. May just save up for an aeron though, had one at my last job... :drool:

[singularity2006]

oh yeah, don't lift ur chair high up.... ergonomically speaking, for people about 5'8" - 5'10", lower the chair to it's lowest level... it will be too low if ur knees are less than 85* with the floor.... people that have high chairs tend to slouch forward as they type whereas if u have it low, ur back does not slouch forward as u end up leaning back more with ur feet too... so ur in a nice comfortable position.

Keyboards
oh yeah, for keyboards, be sure to have a wrist pad... preferably the soft gel types that are essentially plastic pouches of hair gel covered in some fabric... the gel ones that don't deform to the shape of your hands are not very ergonomic because they apply more pressure than the ones that do deform. The goal of the wrist pad is to raise the level of ur wist such that when u type, your hands arms are relatively parallel and your fingers are also quite parallel. U want your finger curvature over ur keys around 45* give or take 5-6*. The more angle there is between your wrist and hands when typing, the more stress goes into ur joints with each keypress.

Anyhow, to get ur most comfortable position, just take both hands and put them flat down on a surface without straitening out ur fingers... just leave them in the most relaxed, untensioned state flat out. That is the natural position u want to acquire when typing.

brands
of the hardware out there, i would recommend the Microsft Intellimouse explorer because of it's nice size so that your entire hand rests very nicely over the whole thing without need to crunch ur fingers around a smaller object.

for keyboards, the Logitech keyboards offer the best in terms of key pressures.... u don't want to have to hit a key harder than twice the pressure required to press the key on laptop keyboards (new ones of course, not cruddy ones that have sticky gunk over them). Anymore force than that... and ur keys are a bit too hard and will damage your hand joints. But remember, a regular wired, non-internet keyboard works fine, are lighter, and cheaper.... i hate wireless equipment such as mice and keyboards because they are heavy, and u gotta keep replacing batteries, and if u spill something... ur fawked... that money to waste. The point is mostly pointed @ mice... damn wireless mice are so phreaking heavy because of the wireless transmitter. U can probably kill someone just by throwing the mouse at them.

monitors
for CRT's, the best thign to do is turn the contrast all the way up and brightness all the way down between 0-30. This makes it easier on ur eyes.... change ur refresh rate to the higest possible setting as well. Also make sure that the resolution is at a level comfortable for u to work with. For people that do data entry, I suggest staying around 1024x768. Anymore is a bit extra, making things hard for ur eyes and anything less makes stuff overly huge.

[singularity2006]

oh yeah, get up every 30 minutes and stretch.... even if u don't feel like it, do it.

in rare cases, some people have been afflicted by coach cabin syndrome... they sit so long in cramped spaces that a blood clot develops in their leg or buttocks somewhere and when it breaks off and starts flowing, it hits up their lungs, which throws everything out of whack, causing death. This has been reported in 2 cases worldwide from computer usage. -.-" more have been reported by passengers on cramped flights.... but yeah, sstretch about.

with the way ur feet should be positioned as i have described, stretch ur toes, move them out and about, and this will keep at least something working.

[SporQ]

Thank you very much. Time to break some bad habits. :)

Out of curiousity, any good trackball recommendations? I noticed you mention the explorer mouse, and I have been considering getting one. But I've used Logitech trackballs (and keyboards ;) ) forever.

[singularity2006]

the track ball is nice but the repetative motion of ur thumb over that little ball is bad for ur thumb join.... unless u got the larger old skool logitech track ball with a big big big ball in the center u can use four fingers to roll.... but even then, the rotations and motions u do are a bit hard on ur wrist. Regular mice are generally "safer" assuming u are not using a tiny mouse that your entire hand cannot rest easily on... in that case, u put some strait on ur joints too.

[SporQ]

ok, thanks for all your tips. will check out going mouse <shudders in fear> :p

[singularity2006]

oh yeah, my chair is onlee $10. ^.~ leather too. ^.~

[CgFX]

Nothing can touch an Aeron chair. With all the dot.coms dying in the dot.bomb they were quite easy to pick up for pennies on the dollar. Don't know about now but I am sure there are still some in the liquidation and office wholesale markets.

http://www.hermanmiller.com/CDA/SSA/Product/0,1592,a10-c440-p8,00.html

[Signal2Noise]

A guy I use to work with experiences back pain. Instead of a chair, he uses some kind of giant beachball to sit on. I don't know the specific name of it though. It takes some getting use to, sitting-wise, but apparently really alleviates the aches & pains.

You may want to check 'em out. Perhaps someone else knows what the hell I'm talking about:shrug:

[Joel Hooks]

I've sat in an Aeron for about 4 years. Very nice. It's difficult to sit in anything else now though.

[bkw]

The giant beach ball that Signal to Noise was talking about is probably one of those exercise balls. Some call it a flexi-ball.

[marc]

lol a low. i can't afford. unless there were cheaper places. leather chair $10? where lol?

[singularity2006]

office max. =D It's a very basic chair... seat and back... no arm rests... small chair... i never liked executive chairs.. on hot days, i stick really bad to it.

[Joel Hooks]

Originally posted by singularity2006
office max. =D It's a very basic chair... seat and back... no arm rests... small chair... i never liked executive chairs.. on hot days, i stick really bad to it.

The Aeron's have a mesh back and seat that prevents this. Very nice. Cost prohibitive a bit I suppose, but I know personally I bought one with my very first freelance check. Haven't regretted it a moment since.

[singularity2006]

jo0 know, with so many budget cuts, i can't figure out how the !@#$ the college was able to replace ALL the admin office chairs w/ Aerons..... :annoyed: our educational costs went to keeping the admins from sticking to their chairs in low humidity air conditioned rooms. :annoyed:

[Joel Hooks]

That would piss me off. You know they paid full price too! Aerons are good for people that have to park in front of monitors for 12+ hour stretches, not for 9-5 admin types.

Well, they are good for everybody, but you get my meaning. :)

[Fingolfin]

Originally posted by singularity2006
oh yeah, don't lift ur chair high up.... ergonomically speaking, for people about 5'8" - 5'10", lower the chair to it's lowest level... it will be too low if ur knees are less than 85* with the floor.... people that have high chairs tend to slouch forward as they type whereas if u have it low, ur back does not slouch forward as u end up leaning back more with ur feet too... so ur in a nice comfortable position.


Thanks for the tip.
I lowered my chair just as I read this and my lower back already felt the difference as the chair went down!.

Workstations should all have recliners with the monitor attached above them. What do you guys think? Maybe I should make a CG model of this? Hmmm...I see big time money being made.

[singularity2006]

imagine having a flat panel or a plasma display on a low ceiling and u get to lay down and use the keyboard and mouse on a tray parallel to you so u can lay flat, arms strait out, eyes up... ooooOoO....

and oh yeah, don't forget to kick up those feet!! =D have fun. ^.~

[danylyon]

Originally posted by singularity2006
[monitors
for CRT's, the best thign to do is turn the contrast all the way up and brightness all the way down between 0-30. This makes it easier on ur eyes....
[/B]

Nope.. the complete opposit.. low contrast is much better for your eyes.. the worst you can do is work on a high contrast monitor in a complete dark room..

I agree about the refresh rate.. anything below 85hz is bad. The resolution.. I don't think it matters that much, you should just be able to comfortable read everything on your monitor, while keeping a good distance.

Originally posted by singularity2006
oh yeah, don't lift ur chair high up.... ergonomically speaking, for people about 5'8" - 5'10", lower the chair to it's lowest level... it will be too low if ur knees are less than 85* with the floor.... people that have high chairs tend to slouch forward as they type whereas if u have it low, ur back does not slouch forward as u end up leaning back more with ur feet too... so ur in a nice comfortable position.
[/B]

I don't quite understand you, but if this:
http://www.bkaro.net/dl/good2.gif
is what you meant.. then I totally agree :thumbsup:
That's prolly the best way to work.

Well how I understand it, you mean something like this:
http://www.bkaro.net/dl/bad.gif
which is really, really bad!
You should have your chair HIGH (well not too high).. but high enough that your eyes are about as high as the top border of your screen. This way you can sit straight and have an even weight distrubution over your backbone. Check this image:

http://www.bkaro.net/dl/good1.gif

And very important: KEEP YOUR SHOULDERS DOWN. Otherwise you'll get hardening on your neck, which can end up as a really annoying headache.

And try to move often.. as others already mentioned.. but we all know it's hard to remember.

btw: Sorry for the bad drawing.. hehe

[singularity2006]

ah... the contrasting... that's assuming the lights are NOT off.... i don't know how u people work on a dark room... of course ur gonna need to have a low contrast in a dark room.

and as for ur drawings.... yeah, I'm talking more or less about the one where u have te lil buddy kicking back with the drink chilling. =D ... but not that extreme.

the whole idea is that u lower urself such that u can sit slightly off the chair, kick up your feet onto something (such as the shelf underneath my computer table), so that your back is not totally vertical with the chair ... that direct pressure gives people lower back pain..... the viewing angle... yeah, it can change, just depends.

the current way I lean back lets my shoulders drop nicely so i don't get stiff necked.... but yeah, if i had a nicer reclining chair, that'd rock... but otherwise, I can only do so much with a standard office chair.

hah, go ergonomic stick figure man!! >=D

[elvis]

well, my company has ONE aeron chair for testing purposes, and i'm sitting in it! :) (we all get a week or so with it).

i must say the are very comfy, although my position isn't one where i sit for hours on end like the CAD guys do.

one of the guys here bought one for himself at home with his bonus last year. not sure if i'd go that far for myself, but then again my cheapy AU$100 chair is pretty comfy for what i do.

[singularity2006]

Aeron chair? nah, $100 aussie cash won't pay for that... describe your chair. =D

[elvis]

the chair i'm sitting in here at work is an aeron.

the POS i sit in at home is a $100 office chair. definitely not an aeron by a mile. :)

[singularity2006]

whj0a..... coool, i want one!! >.<

stupid school... they blew off a huge chunk of school funds to buy those for EVERY SINGLE ADMIN... jo0 know how big our admin staff is?!!??!? for 25K students, we need a lot of admins... i feel somehow quite cheated... -.-"

[CgFX]

Originally posted by singularity2006
whj0a..... coool, i want one!! >.<

stupid school... they blew off a huge chunk of school funds to buy those for EVERY SINGLE ADMIN... jo0 know how big our admin staff is?!!??!? for 25K students, we need a lot of admins... i feel somehow quite cheated... -.-"

Were they brand new? There was a year were there was a glut of Aeron chairs in the resell market because of the crash.

[Joel Hooks]

Even the liquidation Aerons are pretty pricey. I've seen fairly used ones go for as much as $500. Another problem with them is if you use them for too long you become an "Aeron Snob", and no other chair is adequate ;)

[Fingolfin]

Originally posted by singularity2006
imagine having a flat panel or a plasma display on a low ceiling and u get to lay down and use the keyboard and mouse on a tray parallel to you so u can lay flat, arms strait out, eyes up... ooooOoO....

and oh yeah, don't forget to kick up those feet!! =D have fun. ^.~

yeah! That's what I was envisioning. As you recline in your comfortable chair, you have your phone and music cds next to you. Don't forget the cup holders and snack tray. WOW! I think I've gained fifty pounds just thinking about it.

I don't have anything to rest my foot on so I placed some empty boxes underneth my desk at work and it works out great!
Now I'm in a reclining position and my back feels much better. It's been bothering me the last 2 weeks. It improved the day I lowered my seat. Now if I can stop spending hours playing games at home, I should get a normal back soon.
:thumbsup:

[SporQ]

hehe, seems like others are getting better backs too. I know mine feels tons better. Got me a better chair ($80 from office max if anybody is interested) and have my feet up and all. thanks for the advice all. here is a little pic to show before and after... :)

http://www.kickmeinthe.com/chairs.jpg

[elvis]

that chair on the right is almost identical to my home chair.

but lowdown is right, after the aeron there is nothing else. :)

[singularity2006]

i never liked those chairs like the one on the right... those are only comfy if ur constantly working in a cold air conditioned room... for home office where I usually have no convenience of the sort, i stick badly.... =.="

[SporQ]

hehe, yeah, i keep my place in a deep freeze, plus I don't compute naked... ...much, so it's all good.

[MattClary]

I was watching "Will & Grace" last night, WIll was in a conference room with what looked like about 6 Aerons. :cry:

[singularity2006]

but hey, it's a show.. they make hella money. it could be worse. u could be @ the community college admissions and records office here that I go to and see ALL the chairs in there to be aerons.... while in the main hall u see a big sign reading: "budget defecit."

[MattClary]

Yeah, I know what you mean. 8 years ago I was doing CAD work on a 15" monitor and I'd go into a county office for something and all the secretaries had 19" monitors at a time when they cost over a grand (or more). :annoyed:

[golfguy]

evrybody's got an aeron. I think I saw Jimmy Kimmel sitting in one on his latenight talkshow. I was looking at them at sit4less, i'd rather buy online (too lazy). But I was also looking at the Steelcase, anyone have one of those?- I wonder how they compare.

[intvSlams]

I hadn't heard of aeron chairs, so I did a search. One link that popped up was this critique: http://www.dack.com/misc/aeron.html The movies are pretty damn funny!

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