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View Full Version : Hoplike Mk.4 (sci fi greek soldier)


blastzone
01-22-2008, 12:12 PM
hey guys, i could really use some help here. anything you can pick on please do i REALLY need help with how to come out with a nice bronze for the sections that look terrible atm but any comments you can make are welcome.

Thanks for looking :)

render
http://usera.imagecave.com/nistrum/achillies08.jpg

Wires

http://usera.imagecave.com/nistrum/wireframe2.jpg

Concept (of a sort)

http://usera.imagecave.com/nistrum/hoplite.jpg

blastzone
01-23-2008, 01:05 AM
hmm. no reply? gah. this always happens to my threads.. oh well how about some eyecandy? maybe that will get some people to comment. anything would be nice.. line like going good but you want to change THIS.. would be nice. anything really// i crave the attention :P no. more importantly i need it for my showreel. im angling for a juniors position and i really need this up to scratch. so really lay into me guys i can take it i swear :P

http://usera.imagecave.com/nistrum/achillies11.jpg

this is me thinking the colour map is basically done. im going to add some dirt next so if you want to make a comment on it now is the time

thanks for looking :D

yoshimitsu
01-23-2008, 04:42 AM
Well it looks to me like there are some wasted polygons in the overall construction. Also overall a bad use of polygons. The silhouette looks very harsh and basic, like from a game of 5 years ago. You want to concentrate on making sure the silhouette doesnt have the sharp points that "give away" the fact that this is a geometry object.
most glaringly, the point of that thigh armor.
Given your polycount, take polys out of the small dense areas that are too small to see in most cases.

Under the curving Head Crest, no need for that centerline of edges.
rings of quads on the forearms and feet
the collar ring of the armor has way too much geometry that isnt needed.

Really, you have many areas where there are polygons lying on the same continuous plane. for example, the feet. you could get a foot that looks exactly like that with half the polys.

urgaffel
01-23-2008, 07:59 AM
One way you can learn about this is by looking at wires and textures posted here and on Polycount and compare that to your model. See the differences and try to work out why it is different and then learn from it.

blastzone
01-23-2008, 10:56 AM
cheers guys. ill go at him with a blowtorch and post a wire later. see if you think it looks better or worse :)

ThreedyModeler
01-23-2008, 02:03 PM
I agree with Yoshimitsu and Urgaffel's advice.

As for the bronze, it seems like you're trying to "paint" the bronze effect directly into your texture (which is really diffifcult to do) and you're ending up with an oversaturated muddy mess (which I usually end up with when I try to do that as well.)

What you should try to do is change your bronze color/diffuse to an almost solid color (bronze orange color, but not 100% saturated) and then work with a specular level map and specular color map to make the armor more specular, and experiment with the specular colors to see what works best... probably a light yellow of some sort. While you're at it you can also work on the spec level/color for the skin, to warm it up a little. Right now his skin sorta looks like plastic or porcelain.

Also, it seems you have a fairly uniform bump map applied to the whole model... which ends up making the metal look the same as the skin and paint... why don't you try making the metal armor relatively smooth (perhaps minus a few little scratches) and then tweak the skin's bump to contrast the other materials.

Hope that helps...

blastzone
01-23-2008, 04:41 PM
here we go,. iv messed about with the bronze somewhat..


http://usera.imagecave.com/nistrum/bronze.jpg

and a slightly different wireframe. with a few removed adges.. the circles as you can see denote new edges put in to soften the edges you mentioned

http://usera.imagecave.com/nistrum/wireframe2.jpg

also guys. would you say this was sub par for a junior? i need to get a feel for my position

thanks :)

yoshimitsu
01-23-2008, 06:20 PM
Your design sense seems to be a bit basic. I know this is largely a matter of opinion. The thing that annoys me about this character is the forearms. they are just thick tubes of metal, without the least echo of the anatomy of the arm beneath them. If you imagine this guy bending his arm fully, the huge, clunky armor will impede motion. Beginning in game modelling these days requires alot more skill, research and time than in lower technology days to create something that looks even remotely on par with current standards.

What software are you using? There are many basics you're apparently not versed in,
such as presenting a wireframe with the backside still showing, and saving jpegs zero quality so your wires arent even clearly visible. As mentioned, just do some searching and look at other models. Pay attention not to What They Are, but How They Are Made.

blastzone
01-23-2008, 06:37 PM
im using maya and i positively HATE the hardware render output. the backside is showing to allow people to see the edgeflow etc of the model its there by choise. i can remove it if i feel the need but i decided it was more useful to keep it in. and the JPGs are saved as high as PS will take them, if you would like to suggest a better coimpression method then be my guest.

the thing with the forearms however is true. i dont however appreciate being talked to like that. i asked your help if you think im not presenting my wireframe in a way that you like then simly say. theres no need to insult me.

JasonH
01-24-2008, 03:00 PM
Well, right now the big question is what do you want out of this character? If he's supposed to be a basic representation of a character, like in a RTS game, or if he's supposed to be the ultra sophisticated Unreal Tournament character model. Right now the mesh looks sort of in between, too much detail for an RTS, not enough for a shooter. Deciding what you want the character to end up being is very important for establishing where you want it to be when it's done. Is the character supposed to be robotic, or a human in heavy tank-like armor? Either way, you might want to check the elbows. The geometry looks a bit sparse in that area to get any articulation without causing a pretty serious implosion of faces. If he's supposed to be cybernetic, I typically like to separate the arm into a few different parts, and look at things like door hinges or those old fashioned robotic toys (or action figures, those work good for this too) to understand how solid pieces of metal/plastic are built to bend and move. If he's human, than anatmoy books and sites like 3d.sk are simply impossible to beat. If he is human, i'd make the forearm guard smaller, or move it down a bit so it's not so close to the elbow.

It looks like you've got a bit of a noise filter or something on the bump/normal map. Right now it's making the bronze/orange parts of his armor look sorta grainy and fuzzy, rather than hard edged and metal-ly. For metal armor and such, and I could be going completely against conventional wisdom, i really don't know, I like to keep the normal map sorta subdued, as messing with it too much quickly makes your sci-fi metal armor start to look like pumice stone. It looks like you already are getting the hang of it, the thighs and chest piece are starting to look like that, but you could really push the metal panel on his thigh out some more, add some rivets (i use a small solid brush with an inner glow for simple little rivets), and some sodering around the edges (i like to use an even smaller solid brush with inner glow and my wacom tablet to sorta melt some squiggly lines along where the armor pieces meet) Thats another thing, having an idea how big metal pieces are put together, and adding things like the different parts of metal welded together, rivets and hex-bolts will help make a heavy-armor piece a bit more convincing. Good luck, and perhaps next time include jpgs of the diffuse and bump maps you are using.

blastzone
01-24-2008, 05:20 PM
thanks for the comments :)

i know what you mean the only reason for the noise style PS filter is because the nature of bronze. its covered in tiny pits (provided its beaten not cast).. or is it the other way round anyhow.. its surface is fairly messey it looks alot better now though. hahah i see what you mean about the elbow. i honestly dont belive i missed thatm im usually a stickler for that :/ funny how you dont notice things like that after a while. yeh i think your right about panels. im going to put in panels and screws.

and i did engineering at univercity so panneling should be my strong point bare with me and ill post some updates.. i have an idea for the forarm...

yoshimitsu
01-24-2008, 06:00 PM
I'm s:sad:rry, I was simply stating my opinion on your design as well. The shape is dependent on the design, and managing your polygons is dependent on your shape. Commenting on the design of the character's forearms which happen to be a technical weakpoint in the modelling as well seemed perfectly reasonable.
I didnt mean to sound like i was insulting you. I just figured I didnt' have to worry a great deal about the tone of my replies since
so really lay into me guys i can take it i swear :P
was the case.
Re-reading it i don't see much to get upset about, except the word "annoys"... ? Anyway, sorry.

Showing backface wires is generally no good, because it makes EVERYTHING about your wireframe harder to decipher. You could fit a front and back body view in the amount of empty space your current images contain.
Somewhere along the line, if not PS then from Maya, perhaps, you saved a low quality JPEG. Your wires are completely obliterated by JPEG compression artifacts in many places. I'm just saying double check as you output your next image. And use less contrasting colors to reduce the apparent noise of compression.

I am still refining This Model (http://www.3delete.com/WIPpix/SorcererKnight_Refining.jpg) for my first UT3 custom character. there is a lot of detail (http://www.3delete.com/WIPpix/sorcererknightviewportshots.jpg) I created in hi-poly, but I just can't keep that much geometry in the final character. I am trying to find the balance, since i must compromise, between actual modelled detail and my Sub-10,000 triangle goal.

blastzone
01-24-2008, 08:39 PM
yeh. looks fairly complex.. i took the comment about not having a basic knowledge personally. i really do appreciate the help though.. i didnt mean to sound ungrateful

well you will be pleased to know i have changed the forearms there are a number of new alterations :P

you can see here there are some problems with the arms as its not long since i made the changes. messing with the UVs to get the stretching out... i took the normal map off the forearms because it never actually came out of maya right in the first place so im going to hand paint it (dont worry im supprisingly good at it). im getting closer to a bronze i like. might darken it up some. need to mess with the eccentricity of some of his body.. some of you might notice a little more muscular details in his arms. a little but some is better than none huh :P
also i finally changed his expression. which was annoying me...

oh one last thing. ill post a wireframe in a couple of hours and ill cut out the backfaces :P anythign for an easy life :P

http://usera.imagecave.com/nistrum/hopliter.jpg

blastzone
01-25-2008, 12:47 AM
quick update before bedtime

made the changes to the UV map added a few changes to the spec maps and changed the normal map a little

http://usera.imagecave.com/nistrum/updates.jpg

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