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View Full Version : Rigging Mini Challenge : Febuary : The Hand


twidup
01-21-2008, 04:08 PM
Yup, everyone has to rig a photoreal hand.

hand model will be up loaded tonight, to this thread

Requirements :

Hand was modeled in segments, its up to you to fix it, as our "modeling department" is too busy to go back and fix it

Must have tendon motion, on back of hand and wrist
proper cupping action
proper compression on finger bending

Overall, just has to look realistic and natural in the motion

Due Date : Feb. 21, 2008

thread titles : name software "theHand"

lets see what you do with it.

mcernusca
01-21-2008, 11:58 PM
Very cool, I'm excited about this :)
Looking forward to the model.

deatheater4ever
01-22-2008, 04:10 AM
All Right , Let's Do This Thing !!

And before The Rock lays the smack down on your candy a$$ ,he's got one thing to say ...

....................... Just Bring The Model !!

schobes
01-22-2008, 07:38 AM
Man! I love hands. I've always wanted to try and make a super detailed and expressive CG hand. I tried once with moderate (questionable) success.

Todd- what do you think about using displacement maps or other things that would only be applicable to modeling/rendering? You mentioned we would have to 'fix' the hand so maybe it wouldn't be out of the question? Would you encourage that or prefer to see only rigging stuff??

twidup
01-22-2008, 07:52 AM
Ah, see here's the thing..no one asked that and i was waiting for that question.

This is totally open to displacements as well as shader work (like the skin redding on bending a finger and the knuckles lightening on the bend / clenched fist as well)

deatheater4ever
01-22-2008, 08:48 AM
So does the hand already have some texture maps upon it or do we need to put in the bump ,specular and colour maps to get the skin reddnning upon clenching effects ?

mrxzof
01-22-2008, 09:03 AM
Hello, nice challenge, but I hope it won't be a skin shader challenge too. Now I'm waiting for the model

unsmoothed
01-22-2008, 09:01 PM
Hello, nice challenge, but I hope it won't be a skin shader challenge too....

Me too. The quality of the shaders are going to help how 'photoreal' the hand looks. Is it about photoreal movement or photoreal shaders/movement?

uN

twidup
01-22-2008, 10:06 PM
no textures. I gave teh option of the reddening. the main goal of this challenge is the motion and deformations of the model, which includes displacements

hand model will be posted tonight as an OBJ.
If you need another model format, let me know and I can see what I can do

-todd

bonesAndbolts
01-23-2008, 01:08 AM
i would like join too, where will be the model posted (dont know as its my first time)

schobes
01-23-2008, 01:12 AM
Sweet! Also... do you mind if we change the model itself?? I realize it should be realistic.. but can we alter some of the proportions, etc if we feel like it??

visualfx
01-23-2008, 01:54 AM
sounds interesting...i might jump in too. any hints as to where we can get the model? or where to post our final results?

twidup
01-23-2008, 04:54 AM
Model will be posted tomorrow (thought I had it at home, but I dont)
and I cant just link it from cgtalk as the file is too big, even rarred

As for altering the model, think of it as the client approved model and the client is a pain in the ass

-todd

wamo
01-23-2008, 11:51 AM
Hey hey don't forget me:bounce: , i'll join too.
i was wonderng if you could say that,what's the meaning of [proper cupping action] and
another question that can we use pligins such as skinfx?
any way good louk to all challengers:thumbsup: .

wamo
01-23-2008, 11:51 AM
delete plz

twidup
01-24-2008, 02:17 AM
www.toddwidup.com/downloads/hand.rar

JonRobins
01-24-2008, 05:23 AM
This sounds like a pretty fun challenge so i think i may actually take part in something on here for once. Never really posted anything on CGtalk just read forums and looked for insperation. I've downloaded the model and it looks great. My question is do we have to use this to participate or can it be another model. Thanks

twidup
01-24-2008, 06:03 AM
everyone uses the same model, and yes, I know of the issues with it, which is why I chose it

-todd

mrxzof
01-24-2008, 07:29 AM
Twidup, the model is great, but maybe it's too subdivided and an open hand could be preferable for better deformations. Why some fingers aren't merged ?

But it's ok, I can go with it.

pooby
01-24-2008, 11:47 AM
I cant see why you would rig a hand this subdivided unless the topology was designed to describe details such as wrinkles. This model doesn't appear to have been made with that in mind.

All the extra detail is just going to make it a pain to weight properly. I guess it's ok to just rig a sensible lower poly version and use that as a cage deformer for this one though.

twidup
01-24-2008, 04:52 PM
Ok, here is the idea behind this....

this is the model you are give, you, as the rigger, have to make it work, period.

How you do it is totally up to you, and the modeling supervisor you are working with refuses to have the model changed to fit your needs, as it fits their needs.

-todd

pooby
01-24-2008, 05:28 PM
But I'm the boss, so I'd insist that I change it.

(but I won't)

twidup
01-24-2008, 05:42 PM
lol, well in this case, you are just a jr rigger having to deal :)


-todd

schobes
01-24-2008, 06:23 PM
Alright. Let's do it!

Todd-- sorry if this question is redundant.. but it seems to me that the one solid underlying rule here is that we are not to change the topology, resolution, or overall proportions of the base hand you gave us (but we can add details and aid deformation with displacements). Right??

twidup
01-24-2008, 08:38 PM
yup, thats pretty much it :)

I wanted a model and a topic that would immediately createa challenge and something that would make everyone think of ways around the issues presented

-todd

unsmoothed
01-24-2008, 09:53 PM
Man that model is heavy

schobes
01-24-2008, 10:22 PM
Let me guess.. you would rather have it... unsmoothed??

... sorry.. couldn't help myself :)

animatabull
01-25-2008, 04:42 PM
I'm crashing trying to paint weights on this in maya 2008 :)

schobes
01-25-2008, 05:05 PM
Really?? What kind of machine are you on?

I put a temp skeleton in the hand last night and re-positioned the hand to a neutral pose (including about a half hour of painting weights) and didn't have any problems. Though I just started using maya 2008 so we'll see..

RavenEye
01-28-2008, 10:55 PM
:bounce: He he, I know how to deal with this high poly hand. Hahahaa!!! :twisted:

JorelLatraille
01-30-2008, 04:02 PM
w00t I knew I shoulda checked the rigging challenge area sooner, I'm in on this one, sounds fun! Cant wait to see what people come up with, good luck all :scream: :bounce: :D

twidup
01-30-2008, 06:50 PM
I cant wait to see some WIP threads showing up soon...I hope

PLWoods
02-01-2008, 04:17 PM
Talk about arriving l8 for the party ......im in

twidup
02-11-2008, 06:45 PM
only 10 days left, and no participants

prettyh8machine
02-12-2008, 05:16 AM
Well honestly this is not very easy stuff. I mean I'm pretty sure it must be easy for pros but I'm just a beginner in rigging so I thought it'd be really cool if I attempt this. I tried my hands on it but I found out that a non-neutral pose and a very high res both make it a bit difficult to do it as quickly as you would usually do a hand. I understand that it's supposed to be a challenging one but this might also explain why not many people have come up with a WIP or something. We might see some finished stuff after 10 days but there is a possibility that people like me gave it a try, found it a bit difficult and gave up for the other routine stuff. :)

Cheers

JorelLatraille
02-12-2008, 08:13 AM
no lol I havent given up lol, I just havent started :sad: I have thur - sun off this week so I will get cracking then :D

monkey-sage
02-13-2008, 08:04 PM
I'm in. late. but in.


His hand is very.... meaty.

Keithtron
02-15-2008, 07:07 PM
Damn, too bad I saw this so late. Oh well, I don't really have time anyway. I need to keep reminding myself that I can't take on any more projects while I'm doing my thesis.

So yeah, if you see me submitting anything, yell at me!

abahena
02-19-2008, 05:31 PM
I started rigging last night.

twidup
02-20-2008, 04:29 AM
technically, its suppose to be the 21st of this month, but since no one has posted a thread, I might extend it for another month.

if no one still creates a thread, or partispation is still low to non existent, this might be the last rigging challenge for a while

-todd

prettyh8machine
02-20-2008, 07:28 AM
Well I think this shouldn't be the last challenge. Instead I have a few suggestions:

- Let it be more riggin setup and less deformations for a while. E.g. in this hand, at least I didn't spend too much time because I found it tedious to make sure that the hand is deformed correctly when the rigging itself seemed straightforwad. May be it's because of my limited experience but still :)

- Continuing the first suggestion, you can come up with interesting objects/characters that we have to rig (it can involve procedural stuff etc.) and you can later on, alternate the challenge with a purely deformation based challenge. Something like the current one.

I'm not too sure if everyone agrees to it but I must say that I wouldn't want this rigging challenge series to stop right now. I think you should just redesign it a bit and probably make it a bit easier so people get time to attempt it. May be.

Hope I make some sense.

Cheers

abahena
02-20-2008, 07:44 AM
This is what I have so far.
Rigging and skin a hand its boring.
I hate it!
But I take this as practice because when you are rigging a character, by the time you are setting up the hands, you are very tired. Just to speed the procces it will take me to rig a hand. Also the hands give a lot of personality to the character.

alexis

la practica hace al maestro

prettyh8machine
02-20-2008, 04:20 PM
Dude. Looks really nice. Can't wait to see more of it. Another reason why rigging challenges don't need to be stopped.

Cheers

twidup
02-20-2008, 06:15 PM
well, thats part of the process though. deformations are part of the rig.

anyways, I have no issues with allowing more time for the challenges is thats what people want.

-todd

kiusuke
02-21-2008, 04:33 PM
arf i've just seen it :/ too late.

twidup
02-21-2008, 11:47 PM
Ok, as today was the end and a few people just found it, I will extend the deadline for 1 month...that is it finishes on March 21st.

Remember create your WIP threads

-todd

kalokukur
02-23-2008, 05:35 AM
:thumbsup: Ok, as today was the end and a few people just found it, I will extend the deadline for 1 month...that is it finishes on March 21st.

Remember create your WIP threads

-todd


Thanks for extending the time for those like me

twidup
02-25-2008, 05:56 AM
yup, plugins are allowed

as for the cupping motion, its when you bring your pinky and /or thumb in towards the palm of your hand, the metatarsals move to allow a "cupping" formation

easiest way to see it is to bring the pinky and thumb tips together

-todd

JasonStockton
03-02-2008, 07:24 PM
Nice hand :thumbsup: It tempts me to enter.

Buexe
03-03-2008, 07:29 PM
Well I think this shouldn't be the last challenge. Instead I have a few suggestions:

- Let it be more riggin setup and less deformations for a while. E.g. in this hand, at least I didn't spend too much time because I found it tedious to make sure that the hand is deformed correctly when the rigging itself seemed straightforwad. May be it's because of my limited experience but still :)

- Continuing the first suggestion, you can come up with interesting objects/characters that we have to rig (it can involve procedural stuff etc.) and you can later on, alternate the challenge with a purely deformation based challenge. Something like the current one.

I'm not too sure if everyone agrees to it but I must say that I wouldn't want this rigging challenge series to stop right now. I think you should just redesign it a bit and probably make it a bit easier so people get time to attempt it. May be.

Hope I make some sense.

Cheers

Quoted for agreement. While one can argue this is the kind of model you`ll get in a production, I wouldn`t enter, because it is too much geo tweaking to get it started IMO. Maybe I`m not the only one who has this enough of those types of "challenges" at work already, so doing this kind of stuff in my spare time ....
Hopefully there`ll be more rigging challenges though. I really think this is something Noobs and Pros could learn something from.
Cheers:)

Cockx
03-04-2008, 12:17 AM
I have posted my first attempt of my first challenge.
I was wondering how you can rimple the skin between the thumb and the index finger?.. (also on other places)

http://cockx.cgsociety.org/gallery/603641/

I'm using max9.

Best Regards,
Cockx D.

madcan
03-05-2008, 01:09 PM
Hey everyone,

I saw this one quite late but tried my bit. Here it is. I didn't have so much time to put some influence objects so there is not much tendon movements. I will add them later if I can.

http://www.babun.org/cgchallenge/hand_rig_1.mov

Any comments are appreciated. I am using Maya by the way.

MolemanSD7
03-06-2008, 06:41 PM
I'm not sure if this will be evaluated at all during the contest, but as an animator, we always like simplicity in the interface. Something that's easy to learn and convenient, as opposed to having to move to the channel box in Maya to do everything. Just something to consider while creating this stuff.
I'll also give uber props for those who can create the ability for the fingers to stick to a surface and behave like IK. Just think of ways to really push the functionality. Have fun with it.

ErikE
03-10-2008, 05:38 AM
I started working on this tonight, it sure is high poly! Hopefully I can find enough extra time to finish it before the deadline :)

joshpurple
03-11-2008, 06:32 AM
Thank you for the Unofficial Mini Rigging Hand Challenge Todd, very cool of you & great model http://forums.cgsociety.org/images/icons/icon13.gif !

The other entries look excellent, so I thought I'd make them all look even better and add my attempt :) (sorry about the large gif file size, -I hope this loads quick enough for everyone);

http://jp.joshpurple.com/hand.gif

http://jp.joshpurple.com/hand2.gif

Here's the scene so far; http://jp.joshpurple.com/hand-Max2008-32bit.ZIP

A very simple bone hand rig and skin work for the start, with lots of room for improvement.
No smoothing, textures, plugins, lighting, or displacement maps, -just 16 hours of painting weights on the original meshes (and shaking my fist at the computer :thumbsup: ). All crits are welcomed.

abahena
03-17-2008, 07:23 AM
http://alexis.bahena.googlepages.com/hand.jpg




I wish I have more time!!

video file
http://alexis.bahena.googlepages.com/theHand.mov


maya file
http://alexis.bahena.googlepages.com/theHand.ma

twidup
03-19-2008, 07:48 PM
well, Friday is the 21st, but I am going to let things go thru till Monday, so people have thru the weekend to finish things off.

the few samples that have been posted look great, but remember, create your own threads so everyone can see who is entering this one

cheers
-todd

joshpurple
03-20-2008, 09:36 PM
well, Friday is the 21st, but I am going to let things go thru till Monday, so people have thru the weekend to finish things off.

the few samples that have been posted look great, but remember, create your own threads so everyone can see who is entering this one

cheers
-todd

THANK YOU Todd! :thumbsup: I was in panic mode today, so your kindness & generosity makes my day (weekend!). You've made the first day of Spring a joy :) (I hope I've made my WIP thread / entry thread in the right place? ) Thanks again for doing this Unofficial Mini Rigging Challenge :beer: .

twidup
03-21-2008, 09:44 PM
hey Josh,

not a problem...its been a pleasure watching your progress and abahena's progress on this difficult challenge.

great work to both of you so far

-todd

tel
04-10-2008, 03:19 PM
Unfortntly i didnt see this thread before. :(
Really nice results you had here. Congratulations too all.
In the next rigg challenge i will be in.

abahena
04-11-2008, 05:12 AM
For the next chalenge something that involve a hard deformation like shoulders or a rig for four arms creature

tel
04-11-2008, 11:54 PM
ohh cool! i agree with you. shoulders will be cool . ;)

twidup
04-13-2008, 10:08 PM
see, this is the issue with these challenges. with this one, I chose this model specifically because of the post, the geo layout, and the issues with rigging it. The deformations are not that easy to pull off with that geo layout,nor laying out joints with that pose, etc.

Then I get people complaining about not wanting to have to deal with the deformations, and just create control rigs only...come on people, the deformation system is part of rigging, the two go hand in hand.

I am planning a new one and will be sticking to a pretty strict schedule from now on.
Challenges will begin on the 1st of the month, and will be giving 8 weeks(2 months) to be completed, at that point there will be a week voting time, and then down time till the first of the next month(with atleast 2 weeks down time planned)....basically, one challenge will cover about 3 months.

May - July, Aug - Oct, Nov - Jan, Feb - Apr will be how they run so 4 challenges a year basically.

Certain challenges migth end up covering 2 periods, where the first part deals with teh control rig, and the second part with the deformation, or there might be a period where there are more like 3 ro 4 rigs to build in the challenge period, a speed test if you will.

As for the next one, you have just over 2 weeks till its announced.

cheers
-todd