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AlanMc
01-05-2008, 04:00 AM
Dear all,

I'm new to compositing and apologise if this is a basic question, but I cannot find an answer so far.

Does Fusion have the same features/tools as Monet and Mokey? I've been looking at buying some software and obviously do not want to by two apps that do the same task.

Any comments will be appreciated.

Regards,
Alan

Stankluv
01-06-2008, 09:15 AM
edit: I'll do more homework on this but....

Monet and Mokey do claim to do more tracking than fusion but it is 2d. If you are looking to integrate your compositing with another 3d app then Fusion is more in line with your needs. You will still need another app like Boujou, Syntheyes or PFTrack to do the actual tracking.

I assume you are 3d -centric because you are here.

so the question is 2D or 3D

AlanMc
01-06-2008, 11:22 AM
Thanks for the reply.

You are correct, I do wish to mix 3D content with film plates. But to clean the film plates prior to compositing it seems that Money and Moket are "better" apps, which complement an app such as Fusion. Would you agree?

If this is the case then my compositing pipeline is going to be very expensive with all three apps, plus a camera tracking app.

Regards,
Alan

theotheo
01-06-2008, 03:42 PM
Hi Alan,

If you plan to do "3d cleanups" I'd definitley recomend syntheyes for doing the 3d tracking, it can export fusion comps directly and does tons of other usefull stuff.
And I've heard alot of people having success with the pf-match plugin from pixelfarm, but I've never used it.

-the0

AlanMc
01-06-2008, 08:36 PM
theO,

Thanks for your reply. I have been looking at syntheyes and also Matchmover for camera tracking.

Have you any experience with Monet or Mokey? If so, what is your opinion about learning curve, etc.

Thanks,
Alan

dprgb
01-07-2008, 03:56 PM
Well what is it you're trying to do? Fusion occupies a different market space than Mokey/Monet.

Fusion is a full-featured compositing application that allows you to pretty much do anything compositing-wise. There's a 3D environment that's useful for some things, but if you're integrating 3D-rendered data into a video you won't be using the 3D environment anyway (it has it's other uses, though). Think of Fusion as a Photoshop for video.

Monet is Imagineer's placement station. You'd be wasting your money buying it if you're new to compositing - Monet is software for label replacement, screen replacement, etc. It's not a full compositing app.

Mokey is Imagineer's removal station. You'd also be wasting your money buying this. It's only meant for wire/rig removal and removing other things from video.

Fusion can do what Monet and Mokey can do in the overall sense - track and replace the screen on a TV in a shot, for example. It doesn't have the planar tracking (which can be helpul), but if that's something you determine you need you can get Mocha and output the tracking data to Fusion and get similar features. Basically if you don't know what Monet and Mokey do you probably don't need them.

If you're new to compositing that's a hell of a lot of money to spend... I would highly recommend Fusion if $5500 isn't a problem for you, and I'd recommend Syntheyes for the 3D tracking (but if price wasn't an option I'd go for PFTrack).

That said, a cheaper route would be to get After Effects or Combustion and learn the basics of compositing, or better yet buy a cheap Mac and get Shake - you'll be waaaayyy under the cost of Fusion, and there's a lot of training resources out there for Shake.

AlanMc
01-07-2008, 04:27 PM
David,

Thanks for your reply.

I already have an idea what Mokey and Monet do. What is confusing me is the prices of these apps vs. Fusion. As you've mentioned Fusion is a full-featured compositor, which is only approx 1/3 more expensive than one of the two Imagineer products. This lead me to believe that they are doing something that Fusion cannot. You mentioned 2D tracking - is that it? For example, in the removal process, is the patching/repairing segment of the process intuitive within Fusion or is it involved - meaning, if the latter, the cost of the Imagineer apps are justified through time savings.

I also want to know that I'm learning the "correct" app (for me). I know of people using the Imagineer products with Shake, and your comment on Mocha sparked a recollection that some were just using Mocha with Shake as opposed to Mokey and Monet. Therefore, if I go for Fusion plus Mocha would this cover all my bases (plus Sytheyes for 3D tracking)?

Many Thanks for your assistance,
Alan

dprgb
01-08-2008, 03:46 PM
Well, I'd say this - the Imagineer solutions are elegant and work well. But they are damn expensive!

In it's most basic sense what you're doing is creating an overall planar track of an object in all the Imagineer software products. This is unique to them, I don't believe any other program out there has it... instead of picking a point to track, you define a region and it tracks this region as if it were a plane. It's not a 3D track, but because it's tracking the whole region at once you get scale, position, and perspective changes.

Monet has some compositing tools to assist in replacing labels and getting the lighting to match up. Mokey has some compositing tools for extracting a clean patch and overlaying it.

If I were you I'd go my route, though, since you can save a lot of money and spend it elsewhere (SpeedSix plugins and the Krokodove plugins to start... or even Furnace or Re:Vision Effections). I have Fusion and Mocha, which gives you a lot of the functionality of Monet and Mokey but without some of the automation. You can perform the planar track in Mocha to get the overall 'plane' of the replacement/removal. Then you can export the track into Fusion and do the actual composite/removal there. A good example is:
http://www.imagineersystems.com/products/monet/Mocha_screen_exports_Fusion.mp4
That's Monet in a nutshell. To get the Mokey functionality, you'd do the same thing, except you'd need to create the clean plate yourself by painting or combining frames in Fusion (or even in Photoshop).

In addition to that, Mocha's awesome for roto and can be a big time-saver there.

And I'd definately put in a vote for Syntheyes for 3D tracking.

Just as an FYI, over at fxphd.com they're having Imagineer Systems training and Fusion training in the upcoming term (starting next week). It's inexpensive (moreso for you with our weak dollar!) and would get you started quick, and they have VPN versions of the software (all Imagineer software, and Fusion) that you can use for learning purposes. May help you go in the right direction overall, and if you sign up do me a favor and put my username from here in the 'Referral' checkbox! :)

Imhotep397
08-03-2008, 09:07 PM
I think more people have used Fusion and thus why it has some support here, but I too think Mokey/Monet is a better solution for 3D compositing 99% of the time after having played around with it for a short time. The major difference between Monet/Mokey and other full compositors is that you can not generate effects/titles from within Monet/Mokey, you can not generally alter footage (color grading/speed/slow motion) and you don't have access to all of the various plug-ins that are available, but for all of the things Monet/Mokey it's the best at generating track that's 3 dimensionally perfect more and more easily and quickly than the other apps without the work arounds.

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