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OsharpO
12-25-2007, 06:27 PM
Hello brothers and sisters and whomever inbetween,

Started a model sometime ago.
Always wanted to model a boxer. I didnt go with the generic "beefy" boxer but the other way around. Giving as much personality to this sob as i could.
The polycount is 7100 triangles.
This is the model with normal map applied:
http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g145/butt_sahib911/boxer_1-2.jpg
This the wireframe:
http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g145/butt_sahib911/boxer_4.jpg

I used Arsh's base (with some tweaks- e.g. added loops for eyes and added mouth with inards) for the primitive sculpting in zb3. Later i did a whole retopology of the body (needed to learn that).

need to finish this asap to complete my portfolio so i can apply for an internship (probably at Silicon Kinghts-hope they allow internships)
Hope you like it :D

C and C welcome :D

Johny
12-26-2007, 01:56 PM
hey looks cool man ! only problem i see is that you seem to be avoiding tris in the lowpoly ? thats not very smart to do, also if you used only needed polygons your polycount would be reduced by half ;)

OsharpO
12-26-2007, 02:13 PM
Hello everyone http://www.gameartisans.org/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif

OK so im done with PHASE 1 of texturing the boxer.
Was about to quit on the textures but a friend helped me through ithttp://www.gameartisans.org/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif
Fixed seams in zb for the first time! http://www.gameartisans.org/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif for all those who have zb and dont fix your seams, SHAME ON YOU! yes YOU!in the leather pants! @_@

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g145/butt_sahib911/boxer_3.jpg

OsharpO
12-26-2007, 02:18 PM
haha jhonny you gotz me with the abs thing lol. I love triangles actually, dont know why i didnt think about adding tris before :\ The only "hot" place where i see that tris could be used is the abdomen mainly. Any place else you'd like to point out?

thanks alot for replying

p.s.
BIG BIG BIG BIG fan :)

edit:
also keep in mind that i dont think i have any polys which arentn either contributing to the silluheutte or the deformation. except the abdomen XD

GenZ
12-26-2007, 04:50 PM
mmmm butt your texture is getting better :) dont drop the model yet,you can fix the texture with a little work.

OsharpO
01-01-2008, 12:38 PM
Hello everyone :)

Finished the boxer.:)
Im glad genc(fuxer) gave him some "love" in the end :)
http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g145/butt_sahib911/posesolid.jpg
Wires:
http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g145/butt_sahib911/posewire.jpg
Rigged,posed,lighted and rendered by genc :D

antodonnell
01-01-2008, 02:02 PM
I do like the fact you went for a thiner boxer more lean and defined. I do have a pet hate of really high specular level normal maps especially on flesh and fabric so maybe reduce the spec value?. Just hurts the realsim and makes him look like an action figure.

OsharpO
01-01-2008, 02:41 PM
I do agree that the speculars could be toned down abit, but you do have to keep in mind to make him look as if he is sweating/sweaty. Its a hard balance to find. :) Plus the
trunks are highly reflective in real life aswell.However, i think i do agree taht they could be abit lower.

Heres another render i did (thanks oto genc ). Did a random paint thing on it. To some degree, i do think it is better in the "plastic" looking department, but then again,
he doesnt look sweaty nor are the trunks reflective :)
http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g145/butt_sahib911/render12.jpg

I think we need a balance? :D

Thanks :D

antodonnell
01-01-2008, 02:46 PM
Maybe a spec map that highlights certain areas to be more ¨sweaty¨ could be cool indeed. You don t sweat the same from everywhere so that could work. The 2nd render is better :D

cfel
01-01-2008, 02:57 PM
I am here to murder someone...


They invented, and they were ****ing happy too they did, normal mapping enabling the specs to be near enough untouched but the quality of models increased. For example, you were told for a boxing game 1k tris is the absolute max for user spec reason blah blah, however you and other colleges who would have been working on this boxing title felt it were important to have muscle definition etc in it for the realism factor. Boss says "No Problem!" we've got normal maps... yay! - I think.

Well I am saying this because you wasted so many polys on abs muscle bumps that could easily been bumps out with a normal map since you already planned to use it. Texture is spot on, mesh a is no n, specular needs to be grainier if the boxer were wearing a greasy sun-lotion.

Other then that, if you were to show this to a professional company some might feel insulted by the fact they were forced to make low poly stuff and bump in it up with normal mapping.

What do you think?

NikLG
01-03-2008, 02:34 PM
I don't know what you are driving at ( cfel ).
Normal maps are two dimensional so are no replacement for geometry detail for
anything but the smallest things ( like veins ). There is nothing wrong with modelling
muscle form etc. with polygons.

Other then that, if you were to show this to a professional company some might feel insulted by the fact they were forced to make low poly stuff and bump in it up with normal mapping.

What does that mean ? We ( a professional company ) always aim to keep our poly counts as low as possible and add detail with normal maps....it's the way it's done...

I am not having a go at you, just clearing a few things up...

I like the boxer BTW, but his shorts look like they are made of plaster or something ( they look too 'stiff'.

cfel
01-03-2008, 05:22 PM
I'm driving at a pile of annoying moaners.

Just for you NIkLC, I am pointing out things that my tutor points out, with 10 years experience working in the games industry, I think he knows a little bit more than you do pal, so im transfering this to my friend Sahib with pure intentions of him getting a good position in a decent company. The polys is NOT neccessary on the abs, this resulting in NOT showing off the full potentual of the normal map.

Now that you have filled me in with your two pence knowledge, I am willing to see more of your other work apart form the samples you posted on this website. You call yourself a LeadArtist, to what i have seen you couldn't even lead a dog through the park - and I am having a go at you.

LaughingBun
01-03-2008, 06:13 PM
cfel-
Boxing games use an insane amount of polygons on their characters. In case you didnt get the memo, a normal map is not the same thing as geomtry. The meshflow on this model is very good and all of the polygons help define the shape, they arnt wasted polys.
The game industry has changed quite a bit, maybe your tutor needs a refresher course himself.

Anyways i think the piece is pretty good. I think the spec needs work. And i think you should work on the tatoos because they look really fake/bad right now.

NikLG
01-04-2008, 11:11 AM
Ha ha. You students. You do make me laugh. And your tutors. If your tutor was any good he'd be doing not teaching.
I have been in the industry since 91, sunshine, so don't give me any of that crap. I hope that one day your CV and PF will drop onto my desk.
I am reporting your infantile post.

Johny
01-04-2008, 12:31 PM
yeah the mesh is a big mess , there are polys used that dont even contribute to the silhouette or deformation, those are polygons weirdly spent , about modeling the muscles, nowadays, polygon counts are less important than draw calls , anyway i have a link that is perfect for this case :

http://boards.polycount.net/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=249534&an=0&page=0#Post249534

Also i would work a bit more on the specular map of the shorts, i know what type of material you wanted to go for there, but for that the specular shine should be almost the same as teh color of the tissue and not white ;) Also his abs are insanely wide .

good job nontheless !

Gaboon
01-04-2008, 05:58 PM
The model looks great! Good realism. Texture is great. The mesh, though I appreciated the craftiness of the muscle definition, the bottom line is, it doesn't show up in the sillhouette, it doesn't lend anything to the animation. It is overly complicated.

And cfel, reading so many of these posts, I rarely come across someone with your unique flavor of belligerent ignorance. If you are going to insult someone else's work, at least have the balls to post some of your own.

heavyness
01-04-2008, 06:05 PM
guys, when your leaving comments and critiques, do so in a nice manner. yelling at people doesn't work. remember, people posting here asking for comments and critiques on their own free time and will.

GenZ
01-04-2008, 06:07 PM
cfel you need to calm down,really! Butt did a nice job and im proud of him :) He's still learning alot lately and his work is getting better everyday.Way to go butt :P

G0st
01-04-2008, 07:00 PM
Just ignore Cfel, his comments arent even worth reading, waste of time, probably comes from one of those CS:S modding boards.


Nice work, the specular needs some tweaks though, but thats already been said =P

And last thing,

cfel, you have 3 posts, so you're obviously a new member. If you continue to make stupid and useless remarks when you have no grounds or any work to show yourself, I will make it "personal" and take it to a MOD. They might allow it on the boards you come from, but they don't joke around here.

G0st

cfel
01-05-2008, 03:07 PM
Yeah I am calm jenz, gave butt a over saturated comment coz he asked me for it over msn... But yeah I should not make fun of other people, I just did not like the way LikLG came across.

Anyway for people who feel the need to join in on this useless debate, here's a link to my sketchbook, feel free to spam:)

http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=44105&page=16

Dark Soldier
01-05-2008, 03:41 PM
................................

CG-Gordon
01-05-2008, 05:16 PM
That's a nice finished piece you have there OsharpO, love the texture work and the definition achieved in the normals.

The poly count is fine, normals maps aren't magic, newer games have seriously high polycounts along with normal maps so I would say your heading down the right path.

My only criticism would be the actual flow of your polygons. They could do with looking neater (thats a personal pref for me) but they do need to animate and deform well, that should be your primary concern. Now, if they are deforming well then you havent got anything to worry about. A guy in our studio models in a very similar style to you and hes a character artist/rigger and he gets great results in his deformation.

I'd also like to see what your workflow was, did you use Arsh's mesh in zbrush first to get your normals then create a low poly version? Can you post additional pics?

The main thing is the end result, it looks good, nice job. Take onboard the crits and keep them in mind for your next work.

cfel - I suggest you think carefuly before you post again, this is a forum for learning and improvement. Calm down and think before you post. Your previous comments aren't welcome.

LaughingBun
01-05-2008, 06:56 PM
cfel... where do you get the nerve to claim other peoples work as your own and then tell them to spam that guys sketch book. He did some concepts for a mod im working on, and i can assure you, that you are not him.

cfel
01-05-2008, 08:19 PM
yeah if you are on about me working on talon 1-5 with matt from bohica studios, then yes, i did few concepts for him, so get over it - I am a Teewat

OsharpO
01-06-2008, 12:14 PM
First off all, I'd like to Thank each and everyone of you for your replies and help :)
I was away for a few days and genc told to check out that thread.lol.i was blown away :)

Ill be going from the earlier posts to the newer ones :)

Cfel/Cold/Christian:-
First i'd like to thank you for bearing up all the flames from other people's comments :)
As far as this comment this concerned, i do believe you are correct. The main reason i added those loops for the abs is -its a next gen model.lol. If i have 6-7 k tris at my disposal , why shouldnt i add some geometry for the abs whihc i DO believe couldve been done with normals maps. Heck, his face couldvt been normal mapped on a box. If you actually look from the side, you will find that the abs are sticking out in space, so theyre there for the deformation aswell as the actual silluhuette.
Now i know that if i have loads of polies ,doesnt mean i can spend them wherever i want, but to have SOME difference eh? lol
Thanks for the comment :)

NikLG:
Hehe thanks alot for taking a stand for me:) Ill be forever grateful :)
Thanks for the comment :) I didnt have acess to the files nor the PC so i will work on the trunks issue :) Will try and smooth out some of the normals

I think now i should inform everyone, Cfel is a friend of mine.lol. So i didnt mind him bashing my work like crazy. Actually, i grined when i read hsi comment or the first time. Yes,he mind sound harsh, but thats ok by me :)

Laughing Bun:
Thanks alot for clearing some of the things up :)
And thank you for the comment :)
People always tend to hate my tats for some reason lol. What do you think i should do with them?
Also, weill work on the speculars now.

Now i should also state that, for whatever reason, i think i went WAY over board with the topology. The workflow i did was to take the high pioly mesh and polypaint the desired wireframe over the model. For some reason,i started with isolating each muscle,like trhe abs,triceps,loads of muscles in the back and the connecting each other in preferably quads.
The main reason why i did so was that i thought that IF i were to isolate each muscle group with appropriate loops which flow liek they do, then each muscle could be deformed as a seperate entity. I DO know that all this normal deatil couldve been done on cylinders for arms etc.

Johny:
I shouldve kept the topo simple, hehe and i think i have learned my lesson. hehe
Thanks alot for the link there,veyr helpful :DWill work on the speculars :P
About which colour teh trunks should reflect, i had to do some research on that. After some research, i found out that silk shiny trunks actually reflect differnt colours than their own tissues. Forexample, red trunks reflected white, purple reflected blue,orange reflected yellow etc.Though i should change it to light/bright red lol
lmao @ the abs comment. I see it too now :P

Gaboon:
:D
Thanks alot for the comment! Appreciate it very much ! :D
yeah, i know, i went overboard with the wireframe :( yeah actually if you look at the wires, you will end up appreciating it some, though not for effect but for the craftiness

LESSON TO ALL WHO ARE GOING TO HAVE A GO AT RETOPO, DONT GET OVER COMPLICATED.

Heavyness :)

Genz:
YOu posted too :D
haha thanks alot for the comments and help genc
btw if i havent touched on it, genc helped me alot in every step of the model

Gost:
Hehe thanks alot for taking time out to cmment :)

cfel:
You know i love you

Darksoldier:
:) Thank you veyr much
I wish i could go back and fix some of the issues in the mesh. but ive got tons and tons of models to build lol

Gordon:
Thank you VERY much for repplying to the thread :) i feel so special :)
I didnt have access to model or rig until now, so i cant be sure about the deformation. Not even a newbie animator, i just played with genc's brilliant rig and think its awesome :P
I will update with progress pics and workflow details in 2-3 days :)


Well, i smoothed out some creasese in the normal mapped trunks.
Added grain to the spec on the skin and changed his pose abit. :D
http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g145/butt_sahib911/boxernew1.jpg
Hope you ike it :D
MAKE IT YOUR WALLPAPER DUDE :P

blurgh
01-06-2008, 01:50 PM
NikLG, *agree*

GenZ
01-06-2008, 01:54 PM
can i flame you too? eheheh
I like the new render,it looks cleaner.

cfel
01-06-2008, 04:41 PM
Where were you anyway for these two days::O

:)

NeptuneImaging
01-08-2008, 03:49 AM
Well, i smoothed out some creasese in the normal mapped trunks.
Added grain to the spec on the skin and changed his pose abit. :D
http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g145/butt_sahib911/boxernew1.jpg
Hope you ike it :D
MAKE IT YOUR WALLPAPER DUDE :P

Hey dude, i was looking at this recently, and I must say, I really like the stylisation of this character, he looks like someone I would not want to mess with. He is called Butt because he can kick mine easily lol.

A few crits (although the model is done)

-- The shoes he wear can use a bit of specular mapping if it is a leather material (it really makes normal maps pop out)

-- The boxer shorts, although mentioned that it was a bit too shiny... I have a pair like that, and it is not really shiny, it just appears brighter at glancing angles, esp with wrinkles. Perhaps you can try to simulate an Oren Nayar but I am assuming you are using a phong on the model, so just leave it

-- The tattoo would have to be blended with the skin, just a little bit... keep that in mind for any tattoo you put on a character. You would also have to include it in the normal map at a very low intensity to simulate scar tissue. Also a bit higher specular in that area will work as well.

-- The trunks themselves, although they look sweet as hell, can also use some further detailing, especially on the waist band where there is the most torsion. The name part of the trunks, should have very low specularity if you are aiming for that kind of detail with some normal mapped thread. I know, a little overkill, but you can model insane details into the model in Zbrush (about 2 million polys on the shorts is ideal for the detail)

Other than that, will you make an opponent? And for a bonus, I would also make a bruised version of him too...

OsharpO
01-17-2008, 12:50 AM
Hey man :D
Thank you very much for taking time out and commenting and giving your valuble crits :D

-- Yeah i added/tweaked the specular on the shoes
--The boxer shots really did suck. I had ALOT of problem with the specs. I have no idea how i went through it(ofcourse with gencs help) but it was very complicated.
Yeah im using a phong material on the model :p
--YEah thsi si something i forgot to do to this model for some reason.Added teh tattoo and other things through a normal map overlay :)
--I hope you like the waistband :) Added the name into the nm aswell as suggested :)

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g145/butt_sahib911/finalposelarge.jpg
hehe:P i DEFINATELY thought of doing a bruised version of him but i got too lazy :P
plus if i make a bruised version, how will i be able to spend some time on my other models :D
THANKS ALOT :D


Thanks alot guys :D

GArriola83
01-17-2008, 12:01 PM
its a good idea and a great start, but theres about the muscles that look off. some of them look pinched at areas that are supposed to be round, and wrinkles look too "chunky" or noisy, like a curved wrinkle on the shorts shouldnt have noisy bumps on them, it should look smooth. and i dont think theres enough separation "lines" between the muscles. also the calf looks really flat, but these are all easy fixable. go back into zbrush and build the proper form and then do fine details. i hope i conveyed my thoughts together early this morning. good luck!!!

sk3d
01-22-2008, 01:17 PM
I agree with above, some of the musculature look odd, especialy the calf muscles. I know someone who had to have a calf muscle removed and it ended up looking something like your guys calfes. The upper wrist is also suffering from this, and i get the feeling the head is too large.

Hope this helps!

Keep on going!:thumbsup:

codyspahr
02-05-2008, 05:49 PM
Very nice man. I really enjoy seeing a character and wanting to get my hands on a controller and play with him, or in your case, beat him up. I would have to say some areas that need imporoving would be the legs, like most people have mentioned. The characters left like is fine, its his right calf that looks a bit squished and twisted.

The tattoo on his chest looks 2 weeks old, on a pretty old fighter. I think you could dull the colours out a bit. The shorts could use a bit more shine, and less bump I think. and the shoes may have too much of a woven fabric look. It all depends on what you want of course. Not all equipment is the same.

Looking really good so far.

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