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View Full Version : Printing Painter out of Photoshop gives goofy colors


tonto
12-18-2007, 06:53 PM
After creating a document via a RIF file in Painter, I convert it to a PSD file, save it and open in Photoshop, tweak it more, and when I print I get goofy colors, even though it looks proper on my monitor -- on the print greys become blue and browns become yellow. It does this perhaps 80% of the time, the other 20% it prints properly. I believe my color management is proper in that I regularily calibrate my monitor and I use custom generated ICC profiles for my printer/paper combination and I have no problem pinting documents generated in Photoshop or any other program.
Does anybody have any idea as to what is going wrong?

tomt
12-19-2007, 04:25 AM
First thing I'd try is to print the image out of Painter. See if that makes a difference. Set up your profile to Adobe 88 in both programs. They should print the same I'd think.

Dottonedan
12-19-2007, 05:23 PM
I would think that it may pertain to the color preferences set up in the program Painter.

We have Monitor preferences, Photoshop prefs and Painter prefs. What looks good in Painter and…then still looks good in Photoshop…sounds as if it's all in your color "output" preferences.

You said, " and when I print I get goofy colors, ".

This would be, because while your in Painter and Photoshop, your file may be in RGB.
When you go to print, it MUST convert the file to CMYK and if a digital printer, most now have CMYK, dark K, + dark C, dark M or other combinations. It MUST do this, because we don't have any true RGB printers in the market. As a result, your colors shift since the RGB's are MUCH brighter and the CMYK's don't have that full color spectrum as in RGB.

So bright pinks become dull pink. Purples become bluish reds and so on.

If both programs allow you to crate the art in CMYK and you take it into Photoshop and still looks good, Your problem then would be in your "color settings" under EDIT.
Change everything to "PRESERVE EMBEDDED PROFILES".

That TOP portion where it says RGB, then CMYK, (the CMYK is where when you have an RGB file and "CONVERT", it then puts in whatever setting you have assigned in that area. Most people who are not pre-press savvy leave it as default. You can create custom settings and save them. Then re-load them any time you want to switch to something else.

Click on the CMYK and then click on CUSTOM. Then, move down to the area where you see the color ramps. Change the black generation to a different one and WATCH the ramp to see how much BLACK is either being added or taken out.

All that is dot gain compensation. Preparing it for print shop variances. If you have in an extreme in any direction, it is vary visible in your prints. Stick with Default on everything and DON'T convert from CMYK back to RGB. It don't help.

Review the Adobe help guide for more info.
Dot-Tone-Dan

frog
12-20-2007, 10:30 AM
Incorrect, if you are printing to a desktop inkjet printer, you should print from an RGB file. Although inkjets use a variant of CMYK for the actual printing, they are designed to do the conversion themsleves and as such they only function correctly if you print from an RGB file. Printing a CMYK image to a desktop printer will give very unpredictable results.

You should only use CMYK if your file is going to a repro house for commercial printing, for instance for magazine work.

Dottonedan
12-20-2007, 01:25 PM
Incorrect, if you are printing to a desktop inkjet printer, you should print from an RGB file. Although ink-jets use a variant of CMYK for the actual printing, they are designed to do the conversion themselves and as such they only function correctly if you print from an RGB file. Printing a CMYK image to a desktop printer will give very unpredictable results.

You should only use CMYK if your file is going to a repro house for commercial printing, for instance for magazine work.

Hello FROG.
Thanks for adding. My over all answer to your post saying that mine is Incorrect, is…not quite correct. Your post indicates the my total post is incorrect when in fact, it's just not been elaborated on further. To keep it all in perspective, lets look and deal only with what this person (said the in the post) without going VERY deep, (I got to go to work), The part where you say that you SHOULD use a RGB file when printing to an inkjet printer, …is pretty good (if indeed all of your production will end up only at an inkjet stage). So, it all depends on what the end result will be. If you want to print a few posters to a digital printer (as may be the case form a forum like this), RGB to a Digital printer is great. Going beyond that, in a real world production scenario, you would NOT want to use RGB as you would be disappointed in the color output.

Although ink-jets use a variant of CMYK for the actual printing, Here, you are backing up my statement. The ink-jets printers are CMYK printers (+) additional printers to help (simulate) a RGB file as the inkjet printers can't actually print an RGB color space. Inks can't be formulated for this color range although other methods are being used to try to get that close (such as the Hi Fidelity printing and expanded gamut printing such CMYK & Orange, Green and Purple. Basically, this is what inkjet printers are doing.

You said, they are designed to do the conversion themselves
ALMOST True. To elaborate, as you may know, Inkjet printers do not actually do this themselves, they reply on a 3rd party device called a RIP or Raster Image Processor. They MUST convert it to a printable form. If they didn't, then the printer would not sell well, as many people would be printing files and get pretty angry as the file would not print out. It can't because it does not print out RGB. It has to print to a CMYK printer. It must convert it.

Now, because it converts it, (it converts it to it's own specifications). So what we are really talking about now, is further (color calibration) because in his post, he says he's going from what he sees on the monitor, (1st variable) in one application, (2nd variable) to another application ( 3rd variable), then printing it to the printer (4th variable) assuming and typically, is printing to an inkjet printer.

You said, Printing a CMYK image to a desktop printer will give very unpredictable results.

Yes and no. If printing to a Inkjet printer in RGB, then yes, it will give unpredictable results. If printing to a inkjet printer (with a file that is designed the CMYK color space), then it will be all that much more accurate. Now, here is where your end comes in. The CMYK file will not print as bright as one might like or may be used to when creating in RGB. So, you (if your a color corrective savvy person), can initially (freshly CALIBRATE your monitor, create the file in RGB and SAVE. Then convert to CMYK and save as a CMYK version. Now, Create a inkjet test strip print from your printer…and calibrate your inkjet prints (your real world output quality). THIS is the only way that I know of (without thinking harder) that you can ever really get CLOSE to what you see on the monitor on to your color prints. This is the same thing needed for any other printer device.

This is where you can then get "predictable results". But takes much more effort than many are used to or want to do.

Dottonedan
12-20-2007, 01:40 PM
After creating a document via a RIF file in Painter, I convert it to a PSD file, save it and open in Photoshop, tweak it more, and when I print I get goofy colors, even though it looks proper on my monitor -- on the print greys become blue and browns become yellow. It does this perhaps 80% of the time, the other 20% it prints properly. I believe my color management is proper in that I regularily calibrate my monitor and I use custom generated ICC profiles for my printer/paper combination and I have no problem pinting documents generated in Photoshop or any other program.
Does anybody have any idea as to what is going wrong?

Now, after my ego took over (for just a little bit), I noticed that I should have gone back to review the guys initial post again before replying to FROG. The original poster indicates that he does know a bit about color calibration and has done that. What I don't know about, is how a RIF file effects or reacts to being opened up in Photoshop. I think I would really look at that area.

What I'm pretty sure of, is that the problem is in the color mode / conversion process when sending it to the printer…thus returning me to my pervious post.

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