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Firerbert
12-13-2007, 01:49 PM
WIP
Thoughts
http://features-temp.cgsociety.org/gallerycrits/277364/277364_1197553430_medium.jpg

RebeccaSx
12-13-2007, 05:56 PM
Looking good! I love the texture you've created on the skin with the lines and wrinkles, and the hair looks amazing!!

cutepoison
12-13-2007, 06:11 PM
great feeling for plasticness/material...I love the chin/mouth.. :)

will u put some colors..I`d love to see it in colour..

Firerbert
12-13-2007, 06:25 PM
Shadowed-Whisperor: Thanks! I think the hair was actually the easiest part. I'm still reworking some features and refining a bunch of those lines.

cutepoison: Will do! Once the grayscale version is g2g, then I'll work the color up. The color won't be worth anything unless I harness my gray scale tonal values.

CybrGfx
12-13-2007, 08:16 PM
I'm currently going through a "grayscale period," so I like it as it is, the contrasts and shading are yummy!

The lack of a right shoulder bothers my eye, even if only a contour line, it would read better.
The right eye, just above the specular, on the lid, is a bit too high value, as if the light source is very close to the eye.
The left edge of the chin, and the chin crease below the lip look a bit off in perspective.
The shadow by the left eye in the crease of the lower lid is a bit too dark in value; rather than quickly dropping down, it goes almost straight to black, giving that eye a "gouge spot."

Besides that, though, I am very impressed with this piece. You've done a really good job with the eyes and eyebrows, something that so many people struggle with. I think you've also done a very good job capturing the texture and line of the lips; again, something a lot of people have difficulty with.

Very nice work!

Firerbert
12-13-2007, 09:09 PM
CybrGfx: It took me a moment to notice some of your points. Mainly because I'm used to talking in reverse facing on portraits, i.e. the left is the right and the right is the left, just like you were looking at someone else head on. I totally hear ya on your crit! I really appreciate a good point to point fix it up crit. It's been a while since I've had one of those. I will pay special attention to these areas as I wrap this up by the weekend. Thanks again!:thumbsup:

Firerbert
12-14-2007, 07:25 PM
Update
Still some more tweaks before getting into color.
http://features-temp.cgsociety.org/gallerycrits/277364/277364_1197660118_medium.jpg

CybrGfx
12-16-2007, 03:55 PM
Smudging up the facial tones is not a noticeable improvement.

The shoulder on the LH side of the canvas that was formerly missing, is now a hunchback lump, and it is emphasizing the inconsistency with the strange dipping shoulder on the RH side of the canvas.

YOu haven't corrected any of the visual flaws on this piece, like the chink missing under his left eye, or ght overly bright streak above his right eyelid. You've increased the contrast, making these stand out even more, while losing subtle grayscale tones that helped define the skin texture. His chin is now too pointed, and his left cheekbone looks flat, because the shadows are too dark.

You've lost all the facial definition with the blurring, to where the guy's face now looks like it's had a Photoshop skin smoothing tutorial applied. This guy is too old to have skin like a 16 year old with the wrinkles under the eyes, and the creases on the forehead, around the mouth, and on the chin.

The first image looks like an update on the second image, rather than the other way around. I think you are too much in a hurry to color, and not putting enough effort into the foundation, but that's just my observations. I liked the first version better.

Firerbert
12-17-2007, 03:08 PM
Cyber,
I appreciate your candor. I'm reworking the vast majority of the face to accentuate the texture I created before. I have yet to use Photoshop or any blurring or smuding at all in this drawing. I believe those methods to be very haphazard and lazy to achieve the results you want. I have washed out a ton of the texture, I agree, but this is because I'm recreating some base contrast points. I know this is a big request, but you be willing to make a mockup of this joker? I'd be able to pay closer attention to your crits by pining it above the artwork while I continue. Thanks again for a great crit man!

CybrGfx
12-17-2007, 04:07 PM
No problem, but I won't be able to get to it until tonight. We've got a remodeling job going on, and the daytime is insane around here.

~Cyber

Firerbert
12-17-2007, 04:24 PM
That's cool man. I totally hear ya. I greatly appreciate your support!

Firerbert
12-17-2007, 05:48 PM
Cyber,
Heres what I had time to work on during lunch. Use this one for the mockup.
http://features-temp.cgsociety.org/gallerycrits/277364/277364_1197913617_medium.jpg

CybrGfx
12-17-2007, 09:13 PM
Okay Josh,

Since the get go, I have been nagging you about the shoulders. SHOULDERS, Josh, not a strange triangle shape with a head stuck on top.

Look at this:
http://www.sxc.hu/pic/m/h/ha/hakill/890317_man_a_2.jpg (http://www.sxc.hu/browse.phtml?f=download&id=890317)
Those are shoulders. They are about one (1) head width on each side of the head, and they are (generally) flat, NOT severely sloped away from the neck at a 45 degree angle...

Secondly, there are some anatomical issues with the features.
Here is a younger guy, with his head tilted slightly down. By aligning the chin, nose, and mouth, you can see how the pose matches your guy surprising well.
http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/7356/cgsmanie1.gif

But look at the neck width (which is thinner), and the neck length (which is shorter), and the shoulders ('nuff said). Somthing's wonky here. Either you have the head too small (my guess), or everything from the chin down is off (also my guess), or the features are too big for the head entirely (not really, as you can see how they match up quite well with a younger guy whose head is tilted. I think your guy would look good with some shades...) If I enlarged the neck to match your drawing, and brought his shoulders down to somewhere in the approximate zip code of your piece, his head would become huge, and that would still not take into account the tilt.

The facial proportions are pretty spot on, and while we can fudge a bit on the head size, those funky coat hanger shoulders have gotta go!

Will try to get to the PO soon.

~Cyber

Firerbert
12-17-2007, 10:14 PM
Agreed x 1,000. Just next time, please try to refrain from including images of some dude latching onto his unit. Thhhhhhhanks.:rolleyes:

CybrGfx
12-17-2007, 10:56 PM
He's not holding his junk, unless he is like "superman" endowed, and carries really high and to his left, okay? Either get your mind out of the gutter, or look closer before getting offended...lol!

Okay, here's the adjustment Paintover.
The light source is going to be your biggest consideration. Especially since you do such a quick drop off to the shadows. Since he's caucasian, you really need to make an effort to provide the contours of his face in shade, no matter how subtle. Unless he's under a 10 Mil Klieg light in a pitch black studio, his skin is going to refract some light, no matter how little.

His nostrils are not going to be very visible, and you really, REALLY need to look at your own neck, as well as ref images, to illustrate one accurately. You have two very prominent neck tendons and a windpipe that are beneath the skin, and need to be intimated with shadow.

I widened the jaw a bit, and adjusted the philtum beneath the nose, and got rid of the light blotch on his upper eyelid. I also gave him the suggestion of an ear...

This is where I stopped, elsewise it would no longer be your drawing at all. As it is, I probably took a few too many liberties with it, but I wanted to give you something to think about. Hope you find it of some assistance.

~Cyber

Firerbert
12-20-2007, 05:52 PM
Just a quick update. Haven't had a whole lot of time to work on it. Started forming in the knit cap to aid with the overall volume/form.
http://features-temp.cgsociety.org/gallerycrits/277364/277364_1198172878_medium.jpg

CybrGfx
12-20-2007, 08:02 PM
Ni-i-i-ice. Shaping up real well!

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