PDA

View Full Version : Rendering: modo vs Lightwave 3D


Leonardo Vega
12-07-2007, 01:15 AM
Anyone have any comparison renders? I'm a bit undecided between modo and Lightwave 3D and I was wondering how much faster/better is modo's renderer.

Also, if I own modo 101, can I upgrade to 301 or is the 301 upgrade limited to 201 users? I know some apps force you to upgrade every version.

Lastly, does modo use a dongle ala LW3D? I would like to install modo on my desktop and laptop and possibly use a dongle to switch between computers.

Thanks!
Leo

smdnetau
12-07-2007, 02:26 AM
There's a trial version of 301 available.
http://www.luxology.com/trymodo/

I believe you can upgrade from 101 to 301 without having 201 (I may be wrong on that).

No dongle is used. You can have modo on your lappy and desktop (either Mac or PC as you get access to both platform versions) but you'll only be able to use one at a time (that's if they're networked). One machine can use the other to render frames.




Anyone have any comparison renders? I'm a bit undecided between modo and Lightwave 3D and I was wondering how much faster/better is modo's renderer.

Also, if I own modo 101, can I upgrade to 301 or is the 301 upgrade limited to 201 users? I know some apps force you to upgrade every version.

Lastly, does modo use a dongle ala LW3D? I would like to install modo on my desktop and laptop and possibly use a dongle to switch between computers.

Thanks!
Leo

Leonardo Vega
12-07-2007, 03:26 AM
I just got the trial, it's $25 with the videos... but I hope it's worth it.

So if they are not networked, can I still install it on my desktop and laptop? Is the license server based?

smdnetau
12-07-2007, 04:17 AM
Yes. But you can still only use one of them at a time as per the license. It's to stop folk buying one licence and installing it on 10 machines.

If you've get stuck on something the guys and gals on the luxology forums are a friendly and helpful bunch.

Good luck with the trial. There are a few more videos up on lux tv and be sure to head over to vertexmonkey.com. Steve does a great job of keeping track of lots of tutorials and scripts.


I just got the trial, it's $25 with the videos... but I hope it's worth it.

So if they are not networked, can I still install it on my desktop and laptop? Is the license server based?

Limbus
12-07-2007, 12:38 PM
I think you should evaluate both products to decide for yourself. When talking about rendering you also need to talk about shading and lighting because there you control how the render will look and the ease of use and features in that area are much more impotant than pure render speed.

Modo
- uses a shadertree aproach which opens many possibilitys but can get cluttered with lots of surfaces
- all lights have built in falloff that can not be turned of
- very good displacement
- fast SSS
- all lights can cast soft shadows

LW
- layerbased and node based surface editor for ultimate control
- many diffuse, specualar etc. shading modes
- many more procedural textures than modo

These are just some points. In the end both programs can produce beautifull images and what really matters is which workflow you like best.

Florian

Mike RB
12-07-2007, 02:07 PM
I'd hardly call Lw's surfacing 'ulitimate control'. You can't even layer an image or procedural over 2 surfaces... While modo's system currently some people find cumbersome to use it does allow for multiple surface shading or the whole scene.

Limbus
12-07-2007, 02:23 PM
I'd hardly call Lw's surfacing 'ulitimate control'. You can't even layer an image or procedural over 2 surfaces... While modo's system currently some people find cumbersome to use it does allow for multiple surface shading or the whole scene.

Lets not fight over the word "ultimate". I just wanted to state that a noed based surface editor allows for more control over the look of a surface.

mozzuk
12-07-2007, 03:59 PM
You can attach Modo to a dongle/USB key:

http://www.modonize.com/FAQs/106.aspx

:)

Buzzoff
12-07-2007, 04:09 PM
Lets not fight over the word "ultimate". I just wanted to state that a noed based surface editor allows for more control over the look of a surface.

You also posted your list as:

Modo
mostly sucks because X but it does have Y and Z going for it

Lightwave
is best because X
is best because Y
is best because Z

Leonardo Vega
12-08-2007, 04:28 AM
The reason I asked was that I used the LW trial, but I found rendering to be slow and a bit hard to get the result I wanted. GI seemed pretty so-so too. But then again I haven't found any good training videos on lighting/rendering in LW.

For the record, I prefer node editing over shadertree... so hopefully Modo 30X or 401 gets it.

Limbus
12-09-2007, 07:49 PM
You also posted your list as:

Modo
mostly sucks because X but it does have Y and Z going for it

Lightwave
is best because X
is best because Y
is best because Z

Nice reading skills you got there and thanks for adding something valuable to this thread.

Rod Seffen
12-09-2007, 11:35 PM
Has there ever been a thread title containing the words 'which app is best' which has given completely impartial advice?
There are just too many factors to take into consideration, and unless the original poster states every preference he has, his ability and knowledge, all of his circumstances, and exactly what he'll be doing with the app, it's an unanswerable question.

Leonardo Vega
12-10-2007, 03:07 AM
I'm not asking which is app is BEST overall... I'm talking pure rendering.

Which can be done by rendering scenes in both apps, posting render time and the images. I would do it myself, but I'm new to rendering and GI... so my results will suck no matter what.

Megalodon
12-10-2007, 05:35 AM
The reason I asked was that I used the LW trial, but I found rendering to be slow and a bit hard to get the result I wanted. GI seemed pretty so-so too. But then again I haven't found any good training videos on lighting/rendering in LW.

Here are some tutorials/tutorial locations. The first one (which of course costs $) is very good. And there are quite a few books including the Inside Lightwave series by Dan Ablan and Essential Lightwave 9 which has many tips about lighting and rendering.


http://www.kurvstudios.com/lightwave/lighting.php

http://members.shaw.ca/lightwavetutorials/Main_Menu.htm

http://www.newtek.com/lightwave/tutorials/videos/index.php

brenly
12-10-2007, 08:06 AM
Nice reading skills you got there and thanks for adding something valuable to this thread.

nicely put!

Im a Maya user playing with Modo... luv the work flow and alot of the tools in Modo but have to say the layer based shader editor gets cluttered real easy .. makes it tedious to work with. They need to do something there! I like node based editing .. XSI does it real nicely!

So LW does both .. Id really like to see that! If done right Id agree with Limbus Ultimate control!

Limbus
12-10-2007, 01:07 PM
I'm not asking which is app is BEST overall... I'm talking pure rendering.

Which can be done by rendering scenes in both apps, posting render time and the images. I would do it myself, but I'm new to rendering and GI... so my results will suck no matter what.

Its hard to say since both have advantages and disadvantages but are both able to produce photoreal images. In the end it really comes down to personal preference of the workflow and the needed tools for the result. While a node based editor is very powerfull, it is also more complex and while the Modo shadertree can get cluttered it might not for you because the things you do dont need very many different surfaces but like other features etc...

It also highly depend on what subjects you want to render and in what kind of style (e.g. photorealistic, NPR, cellshading).

Buzzoff
12-10-2007, 04:11 PM
Nice reading skills you got there and thanks for adding something valuable to this thread.

Almost equal to your biased and pointless asshat of a contribution.

Leonardo Vega
12-10-2007, 10:14 PM
So I take it modo is not faster than LW? They are about equal? From my short time with both apps (although I have used LW for atleast 30 days, modo just 2-3 days), it seems I get nicer/faster results with modo.

But then again, I go to newtek's website and all their images look soooo nice... :)

Mike RB
12-10-2007, 11:14 PM
as far as pure speed comparisons go, modo is faster with IC-GI, direct lights, and renderer created polygons (instances and micropoly displacements).

Megalodon
12-10-2007, 11:49 PM
Almost equal to your biased and pointless asshat of a contribution.

That's funny.... I see that Limbus points out ACTUAL items in both programs. YOU point out nothing about either program.

Perhaps Limbus IS biased, but at least he provided a few items of interest. All you provided was an attack.

Not very professional. Just another person hiding behind an internet account. You would most likely NOT talk like that to him or anyone else in person. Chances are if you did, you wouldn't be able to type too well.

Benr
12-11-2007, 04:52 AM
So I take it modo is not faster than LW? They are about equal? From my short time with both apps (although I have used LW for atleast 30 days, modo just 2-3 days), it seems I get nicer/faster results with modo.

But then again, I go to newtek's website and all their images look soooo nice... :)

I have the impression that a lot of LW users render with FPrime (no experience with it myself) so you might want to check that.

fez
12-11-2007, 02:33 PM
I'd hardly call Lw's surfacing 'ulitimate control'. You can't even layer an image or procedural over 2 surfaces... While modo's system currently some people find cumbersome to use it does allow for multiple surface shading or the whole scene.

True, but weight maps have allowed such layering since...7.5? I've been using the WM method for a while anyway.

Modo's surfacing system is incredibly flexible. I can't wait for a nodal version.

Megalodon
12-11-2007, 07:25 PM
I have the impression that a lot of LW users render with FPrime (no experience with it myself) so you might want to check that.

We render with both native LW and FPrime. It depends on the scene and what is required. For animation, native LW using Final Gather is great now - very fast on animation and it looks very good. For large stills, FPrime is perfect. That and for setting up great lighting since you get virtually instantaneous feedback. I'm not "one of those" who says you NEED FPrime to make LW work, but I wouldn't want to live without it in MANY instances.

FreakWizz
12-11-2007, 10:00 PM
Modo is generally sligtly better for GI and IC, however i wouldn't say it's always fast, i have a scene with instances and LW 9.31 and HD-Instance render it in 3mins, the same scene in Modo with only 3 instances (not like 200) is over 10mins to render.

LW has much more complete shading system than that of Modo, Modo makes very nice clean renders, but it's shading/surfacing/lighting system is physical based, which certainly limits what it can render..

I honestly could not reccomend Modo 301 to anybody based on the amount of issues, bugs and stability at the moment.

fez
12-12-2007, 02:10 AM
Almost equal to your biased and pointless asshat of a contribution.

I think Limbus highlighted a couple of Modo's limitations, relative to LW, that Lux will hopefully address by 302. The lack of light linking in particular is a dealbreaker for me.

CaptainObvious
12-17-2007, 11:32 AM
True, but weight maps have allowed such layering since...7.5? I've been using the WM method for a while anyway.
Well yeah, but you can't layer anything over more than one surface at a time. If you've got 150 different surfaces in your scene, there's no good way of changing them all at once. Especially not if you use surface shaders or nodal.

fez
12-17-2007, 01:41 PM
Well yeah, but you can't layer anything over more than one surface at a time. If you've got 150 different surfaces in your scene, there's no good way of changing them all at once. Especially not if you use surface shaders or nodal.

True, true. Some sort of global nodal view would be most welcome. Or perhaps a global node with per object and per-surface inclusion/exclusion settings (like lights).

Rectro
12-17-2007, 05:57 PM
I had tryed LW several times before even having a good look at modo. Personaly I found LW to be rather complex in the way I had to set things up for such small results.

For the professional that dont mind spending a very a good amout of time learning its depths, results Lw can produce stunning results. I wanted to get into the guts of the program to get results quick and this just didnt happen for me even after a solid 2 weeks. This was due to the interface issues I had and the over complex way in which I had to setup my nodes, SSS comes to mind and displacments.

Lightwave has rigging, animation and good rendering plus a host of quality plugins including hair Modo simply dont have all but what it does have is quality. If your modling non organics for the rendering use within modo then, great. If this is the only renderer you have and need quality hair then your at a loss with Modo.

Now when I first got into Modo, il be honnest, I found it a nightmare as like LW I found it to go about doing things the hard long way. After two weeks with modo, I saw just how easy it was to use and how fast you can get results for rendering. Im not a professional, but a digital artest, Modo feels more creative and enjoyable to use, and the results are way more faster to achive than LW for me.

Displacments can be setup in as fast as 30 seconds, no sub patching in a seperate application, just press the Tab key, drop the displacment onto your model and set the intensity up. SSS while im sure you get more control in LW, is so quick to setup in Modo and again your start seing results very quick. Both have their pros and cons and nobody can tell you what will work for you.

I had to just try both of them and test according to my own needs. Still to this day, even after now perchasing and learning modo courseware, my cheap modling application Hexagon still is by far the fastest modler.

Now on the rendering side, Modo can produce photo realistic renders in the right hands, I feel you dont have to be a expert to achive them in Modo as to LW.

CGTalk Moderation
12-17-2007, 05:57 PM
This thread has been automatically closed as it remained inactive for 12 months. If you wish to continue the discussion, please create a new thread in the appropriate forum.