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Auctane
12-06-2007, 03:51 PM
So I had the idea of firing up a mod to make girl stuff for TF2, and I found out that there is a lot of other people that are interested in it and other threads discussing it. SO here we go, lets talk about starting it up here.

I guess the first thing to do is make sure nobody else has started this up yet... and ive searched around a bit, looks clear so far. Better jump on it while we can. :)

Oh, and anyone interesed in joining up in the mod team, drop a line here.

switchblade327
12-06-2007, 04:19 PM
Lots of people have had the idea :P The good news is that should make it easier to find help!

Like I mentioned in the other thread, I'm interested in doing animation on at least some of the characters. I know a little bit about Source too and I'd love to take a shot at getting them in game.

Someone will have to model/texture/rig them first though. I can rig if we use Max and biped, otherwise I'm not much good there.

Is Kirt going to concept all of them or do we want to collaborate a bit or divy up the remaining designs? Assuming Kirt is on board, of course.

Swizzle
12-06-2007, 05:05 PM
I'd be down with helping on this. I can model and texture if you need anybody.

switchblade327
12-06-2007, 05:08 PM
Should be mentioned that there are already at least one concept to work from here:

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=31&t=561708&page=1&pp=15

Auctane
12-06-2007, 05:26 PM
Ohh yeah. I dont think it should be a problem recruiting.

You mentioned keeping the weapons and movemet in tact Switchblade - I personally want to reserve that as a safety net and go beyond just giving the classes a sex change. I think it would be very cool to come up with a total female line up with as much uniqueness to each character as Valve put into the original 9. That would also leave it open to expanding the game by making it so you could use the original male characters with the new female characters. :)

When you play TF2 and look at all the things Valve has done, you can tell that they are having A LOT of fun coming up with wacky ideas. I want to have fun like that.

For the mod name, I thought of a few different ones, the one I liked the most that I came up with is "TF2: Better Halves". Toss out some ideas & comments on that if you got em.

I have a vbulletin lic we can use, so once we come up with a name (or something close) I will get a -behind closed doors- way to communicate and expolre more ideas.

Kirt
12-06-2007, 06:48 PM
You're more than welcome to use my designs for this. I think it's a great idea. As for me concepting all of the classes, I'd like to get them all done. However, I don't know if I can keep pace with you if there are more than one modeller working on this. My schedule is too wild and I never know when I'm going to have free time to work on things. I think you should have another concept artist working as well to pick up my slack.

I'll try to get an ortho sheet done for the Nurse as soon as possible so that someone can get started on it.

With my concepts I was trying to keep the standard weapons for each class, but if you're going to go full Mod then it makes sense to come up with unique weapons for the female classes. Maybe even including some unique maps to play on (in the future prior to release). Which I'd also like to work on. I enjoy mapping even though Hammer is a pain sometimes.

Temporal
12-06-2007, 07:27 PM
I'm still interested in modeling some TF2 gals! Can't wait to see your ortho's for the nurse Kurt :D

WyattHarris
12-06-2007, 07:43 PM
With my concepts I was trying to keep the standard weapons for each class, but if you're going to go full Mod then it makes sense to come up with unique weapons for the female classes.

Think about what the Valve guys wrote in the TF2 production focus. By silohoute you should be able to instantly determine what class it is and what weapon is being used. If you throw in male/female and THEN what weapon it may make it overly complicated. Not saying don't do it but it's something to keep in mind. It would be cool to see what weapons the women would use.

Kirt
12-06-2007, 08:14 PM
Well they definately should not have the same silhouette as one of the other classes if that's what you mean. But I don't think a new unique silhouette is going to make it any more difficult to recognize the enemy coming at you. It took maybe 10 mins to figure out the classes and what weapon was equipped on the current models. Even if you have 9 new silhouettes I don't think it's going to be a game breaker.

That being said, I will still try to keep the designs close to the male counterparts. You don't want to have a female Medic that's has the same build as an Engineer or Scout (for example). That could become confusing if there is a mix of male and female models running in the same game.

Auctane
12-07-2007, 05:37 PM
Sweet guys!! Awesome lineup so far!! I'm going to ask you to go make an account at the forum when I get it setup.. I had a hangup that caused a serious problem for all the other websites on that server... uggggH! Anyway, should be rolling shortly here. I have a ton of ideas I want to thow out there :)

So we are for sure looking for another concept artist. Most likely some other positions. Im pretty sure we will be able to get a good coder on easy though ModDb. Ill get it registered on there after the team has some time to talk behind closed doors.

lihab
12-09-2007, 03:10 PM
i'm not a artist at all, so please take my opinion with a grain of salt. i was thinking that maybe the female counter parts should use the same 2 main weapons with their melee weapon being the "flair" weapon. with the exception of the engy and spy it seems like for the other classes the melee wep is the real personality piece for all the other classes (scotch for the demo, fists for the heavy, baseball bat for the scout, etc). the engy and the spy might have to keep the same type of weps because they are kind of important to their class, but who knows.

even though i'm not an artist, i am a girl, so if i can help contribute some voice overs for animations and taunts, i'll help as much as i can. haha.

switchblade327
12-09-2007, 09:27 PM
Ohh yeah. I dont think it should be a problem recruiting.

You mentioned keeping the weapons and movemet in tact Switchblade - I personally want to reserve that as a safety net and go beyond just giving the classes a sex change. I think it would be very cool to come up with a total female line up with as much uniqueness to each character as Valve put into the original 9. That would also leave it open to expanding the game by making it so you could use the original male characters with the new female characters. :)

I tend to agree with Wyatt said. 18 totally different silohouettes is going to get confusing.

And honestly, I think the beauty of TF2 is it's incredible balance. The silohouttes, the speed, range... these are all factors that the highly, highly talented designers at Valve have been tweaking daily for years. To start messing with these is mostly likely going to screw up the game. This is why I don't play Counter-Strike any more; every server is so modded to death by people who think they're smarter then professional game designers but most often, they're not :/ No offense intended here; I have no idea how good of a game designer you are. But most people tend to assume it's easier then it is.

Here's what I suggest: a two-stage approach to the mod:

-The 1st is entirely cosmetic. New models, new anims but use the same 1 and 2 weapons (I love lihab's idea of changing the melee weapon cosmetically. Please don't think me sexist to want a purse, a rolling pin and a high heel as some of the options. The game does have a sense of humor...) as the originals. Gameplay remains exactly the same. This is also way less work then a total conversion and too much ambition is probably one of the top reasons why mods die. Also, a cosmetic conversion is more interchangable with the original game which makes it more accessible to more players. Cosmetic also means we can do most of the work without coders.
A couple new maps would be cool too but not crucial to completing the mod. Also, I would suggest the first thing to do is complete Kirk's nurse from concept to in-game before going too far with anything else. Plus it'll be easier to recruit people to help once you actually have something in-game to show and not just some concepts or GI renders that most people use to gather interest.

-The 2nd stage, once the first is totally done and hopefully getting some attention, is to mess around with gameplay. You'll already have the art assets and you can mess around to your heart's content with the rest of it.

Good idea on the message board and I like the name.

madcan
12-10-2007, 08:47 AM
Hey everyone,

I quite like TF2 and I think this idea is great as well. If you happen to need rigging in Maya, I am up for that. I am not that much experienced in animation so can't promise that right now but by the time the riggings are done, I may be okay with that too.

Auctane
12-12-2007, 02:43 PM
Ok, I had a family emergency, Im flying back to Seattle from Boston this afternoon. I hope to have that board up tomorrow.

Yeah it took Valve a long time to balance the game just right. It would be hard to introduce all new weapons and have a fast delivery date on the mod. I just dont want to close the book to the idea, I think inventing new characters and personalities is were a lot of the fun is burried.

Lihab, have you done any voice overs before? Could be cool, where are you located? Lots more to talk about on those... I really need to get that board up.. :/

switchblade327
12-12-2007, 04:12 PM
Unsurprisingly, we're not the only people thinking of this, though we might be more capable of executing the 3d side of things:

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=628389&page=7

There's some pretty good (and bad) ideas there and of course, the invetiable sexy vs butch debate. Worth looking over though. They even reference Kirt's heavy in there!

Auctane
12-13-2007, 06:36 PM
Yeah I saw that thread, I should take some time to go through it a little deeper. Skimming it, it really makes me want to do more than just give the characters a sex change. We could introduce a whole line of counterparts for the classes... im seeing disfunctional famliy type stuff here... HA!!!

Working on the forum... just have one thing I am fighting... getting VBulletin to recognize the database...

Auctane
12-14-2007, 03:20 PM
Its up, ill be messing with the forum layout here and there.. but here it is :)

http://www.tf2betterhalves.com/forums/

Auctane
12-18-2007, 08:01 PM
Ok, so I am getting ready to post up on ModDb.com. Things are way too quiet at the TF2BH forums... Kirt, mind if I use some of your sketches?

Kirt
12-18-2007, 09:10 PM
Auctane - You may be getting a little ahead of yourself. But if you must ... go ahead and use one of the Nurse images. I was trying to get that ortho shot done, but with the holidays here, I'm just not finding the time to do anything but take care of the family.

Here's my images. Ask Swizzle before you use one of his colored images. I think they're WIP.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a294/kirtstanke/tf2_nurse.jpg

Swizzle colored it. (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y29/xkostolny/tf2_nursecoloredV2.jpg)
Swizzle colored it again. (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y29/xkostolny/tf2_nursecoloredV3.jpg)

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a294/kirtstanke/tf2nurse_ingame.jpg

Auctane
12-19-2007, 08:09 PM
Thanks Kirt. Yeah, just getting ready for it. Not enough content to really get anything official up yet.

On the forums - Most of the treads are hidden to the public. To see them, I need to make your account a moderator account.

Brocklesocks
12-28-2007, 04:30 PM
Wow, guys. I'm so happy you followed through with this idea. Damn, I want to be in on this!

switchblade327
12-28-2007, 04:51 PM
Is anyone actively working on anything for this?

Swizzle
12-28-2007, 06:35 PM
Is anyone actively working on anything for this?Dunno. Kirt said he was working on some orthos for the nurse, but I don't think anything's come of that.

Kirt
12-28-2007, 06:47 PM
Holidays ... :hmm:

When the madness is done I'll have that ortho. Sometime next week probably.

angel
12-28-2007, 07:30 PM
Hey Kirt that sketch looks great!
A feamale heavy should be hillarious as well, A female demo would be fun too, maybe with the eyepatch on the other eye. lol

If I wasn't so busy I would voluteer to model too...

Auctane
12-31-2007, 06:28 PM
Is anyone actively working on anything for this?

Ive been out of town. Ready to rock on this now though!!

Dermont
01-02-2008, 07:42 AM
Im thinking about joining up

I have some HL2 moding exp.

My site

http://www.slagstudio.com/

I like Neko scout and engi idea. They just need to be refined.

Auctane
01-04-2008, 02:10 PM
Im thinking about joining up

Let me know when you know for sure.


I have been putting some pics together for stuff that i think would work for the character redesigns. There is some brainstorming left to do as well. *edit - oh, thats all on the TF2BH forum.

Waz
01-08-2008, 05:08 AM
Here is something I whipped up the other night to give it a shot. Still could use a bunch of work on bone structure and what not but for one nights work its cool. If theres some good feedback I'll finish it up and help get it imported.

http://justin.kics.bc.ca/forumimages/3d/TeamFortress2_Nurse_01.jpg

Auctane
01-08-2008, 11:44 PM
Hey Waz. For the mod we are actually laying out all the characters and getting all the concept art done before we start modling. Cool stuff though!

Auctane
01-10-2008, 06:19 PM
for the team members:

http://www.tf2betterhalves.com/forums/showthread.php?p=32#post32

and only team members can see that thread.

switchblade327
01-11-2008, 05:45 AM
for the team members:

http://www.tf2betterhalves.com/forums/showthread.php?p=32#post32

and only team members can see that thread.

Why all secret squirrel? We're throwing some ladies into TF2, not building a death ray.

Waz
01-11-2008, 03:11 PM
Hey Waz. For the mod we are actually laying out all the characters and getting all the concept art done before we start modling. Cool stuff though!

Do you guys have the Nurse done yet and anyone assigned to model? I wouldn't mind joining and doing a model if the concept is done with model sheets. I have some free time right now and could finish one up quickly.

Auctane
01-11-2008, 04:45 PM
Waz, there have been no assignments made yet. How long will you have free time? I don't have anything ready for characters at the moment.

Waz
01-11-2008, 08:41 PM
I've got about 2 weeks left

Auctane
01-11-2008, 09:13 PM
The new characters still need a lot of life brought into them, so I dont think within the time you'd need to do it properly there will be any full character sheets ready. Its small things that people love about the current male characters (like one of the Demo taunts he lifts up the guard to reveal the smily face sticky note on his crotch) and I dont want to hack things out and miss out on that fun. If you think you'll have time after that and want to be part of the team developing characters go to the TF2BetterHalves forum and start an account.

TheBladeRoden
01-11-2008, 10:28 PM
So if one were to join, are we limited only to your ideas of what the characters should be, or can we post our own concepts?

Auctane
01-11-2008, 11:27 PM
Looking for people who want to be part of a team and bring ideas and own concepts. Definately not 'my way or the highway'. Im hoping to get some people who want to brainstorm. You interested?

Kirt
01-12-2008, 04:47 AM
You know, it's probably a very good idea to start with the Pryo. The Pryo is an ambiguous character as he is now. I think this would be the easiest class to convert over. All that we'd really need is a skin. Keep the animations and voices that already exist for this class.

I think it fits with the original game. It's actually pretty funny too, when you think about it.

Here's my idea ...

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a294/kirtstanke/pyro.jpg

Start with a welder's mask and bandana tied around the head to hide all facial features. Give her a fire suit simular to a firefighters' outfit (jacket, pants and boots). Hang her decorative grenades off the belt (rather than the shoulder sash). And top it off with big welder's mittens. Done.

Auctane
01-12-2008, 05:09 AM
Cool Kirt. I'm not sure if checked out some of the ideas in the mod forum or not, but I proposed converting the engineer into a welder... Seems to me that would be in conflict with what you came up with here.

Kirt
01-12-2008, 05:17 AM
Nope, I didn't see that. I should go back and check the forum more often. :D

Anyway ... I couldn't find a good gas mask replacement and the big reflective fire shield helmets that I found for ref didn't fit the Pyro sillouette. So I ended up here with the welder's mask.

I think the female engineer should be a 'Rosey the Rivetor' type also. Maybe we can do it without the welder's mask and that would be OK. :shrug:

Auctane
01-12-2008, 05:30 AM
Well if you swing by there and check out what i think may work for the female equal to the pyro - I think the ~mask~ I found, we would at least be able to indicate that it is female (in the eyes). Rosie the Riveter is what I had in mind for the engie, I just couldnt decide on an electric welder or gas welder... gas is more nostalgic, but I thought the zapping and popping noise of the electric fit better with the sentury building. I was going to sketch a couple out and see, and I was hoping to talk with other people about it before we came up with anything solid.

Kirt
01-12-2008, 07:10 PM
Indicating it's female in the eyes ruins the joke if you ask me. But you can do what you want. I'm going to continue with my own ideas for my other thread. Use my concept or don't. I wasn't suggesting that this is how it's going to be.

:shrug:

Auctane
01-12-2008, 08:22 PM
If you think it would ruin the joke, the glass could be blacked out easy. It was just an idea.

switchblade327
01-12-2008, 10:11 PM
As a tribute to the original pyro it'd be pretty funny if for the females version was clearly a man in drag.

Lordrych
01-14-2008, 07:01 PM
Auctane if you still need concept and 3d artists I can help out with the concept and 3d modeling side. I can work on the assasin and the Pyro Since it seems that Kirt has the Nurse the heavy weapons going? I love the TF2 style anyway? PM let me know or just reply here.

TheBladeRoden
01-19-2008, 06:14 AM
I threw up some concepts for the Sniper and Scout

http://students.uww.edu/rodenja10/snipergirl.jpg

http://students.uww.edu/rodenja10/scoutgirl.jpg

fade3
02-25-2008, 12:25 AM
Hi. I just finished my project on the female scout. I thought you guys might be interested.

It's based off of Neko's concept drawings (http://www.oincwireless.com/images/PIMS/FemaleScout.png)
Download link & a bit more info Here. (http://www.fpsbanana.com/skins/39114)

Picture of final product:
http://image.hazardstrip.com/ss/srends/31004.jpg

aesir
02-27-2008, 06:31 AM
dude that KICKSASS!!! Send valve an e-mail!

Davethewave711
02-27-2008, 07:15 AM
I just wanted to say that this is a great idea guys...there has such a demand for females in TF2...I've heard it from many people...I saw this forum go up and was jazzed someone was doing something about it...

Wish that i could join on but i'm working on a short film at the moment...

GOPHER THE GOLD SHORT FILM (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=153&t=600448)

so good luck guys i will track your progress...
looks like great concepts so far...

dave

Gopher the Gold Blog (http://gopherthegold.blogspot.com/)

Kirt
02-28-2008, 03:30 AM
Hi. I just finished my project on the female scout. I thought you guys might be interested.

It's based off of Neko's concept drawings (http://www.oincwireless.com/images/PIMS/FemaleScout.png)
Download link & a bit more info Here. (http://www.fpsbanana.com/skins/39114)

Picture of final product: (http://image.hazardstrip.com/ss/srends/31004.jpg)

Hi Fade! I've been reading your thread on the Steam forum. People can be so rude ... :hmm:

I'm glad you came here and registered on CGTalk to show us the model. I think you did a fine job of reproducing what Neko had on her concept drawing. Also, considering it's your first game model I think you should be very proud of what you have here.

I know you and Neko were trying to go for exact replication of the concept drawing so I'm not going to critique it much other than to say it does stand out as not fitting with the "Valve TF2 style" very much. I think the idea is great. Neko had an original idea for the Scout and I fell in love with it the first time I saw it. However, in relation to TF2, more work could have been done to make it fit in with the existing universe.

Whatever those punks on the Steam forum are saying ... you should be proud of this work. I know what it takes to get a model skin imported to the game engine. Not an easy task and your efforts alone are worthy of praise. Good job! :thumbsup:

Auctane
02-28-2008, 04:54 AM
Well said Kirt.


Would love to see if you came up with anything new!! Your opinions and skills are appreciated.

fade3
02-28-2008, 08:16 AM
Hi Kirt, and thanks for the feedback! I agree with you completely, the character doesn't really stay very true to the TF2 style. When texturing we had many passes back and forth, me wanting to tweak it more towards Valves design philosophy, Neko wanting to stay true to the original design of her character (understandably). We found a decent middle road, I think.

As I said in a recent reply on the Steam forums(link (http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=656028&page=10#147)); If i decide to have another go at a female character for TF2, I'll try to get more involved in the character design right from the beginning (being that I can't draw at all, I cannot do this myself), and collaborate with the 2d artist on design desicions from an earlier stage. Also, I probably won't stay just as strictly to the character sheets as I did this time around, as I did notice several things that just did not work out very well in 3d compared to her sketches. All in all, I've taken as much critisism (well, the constructive) as I could with me, and the next release(if any) will definitely be of better quality.

cruzaderazn
03-06-2008, 03:24 PM
I've been following this thread (and similar threads) and after seeing the model come to life after Neko's designs is great. However, from the start I never thought that the original design was suited for TF2, which has be reiterated by others.

Some time ago, I made this quick concept after seeing an idea from a member, lihadb. The orginal forum is found here. (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=31&t=561708&page=3&pp=15)

And here is the quick sketch I did. I tried to work from silhouette, like Valve.
http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/63/scout1ri2.jpg

I also did a color study awhile ago to see how it would look, but obviously never finished it.
http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/1065/scout2pd9.jpg


I've done the engy and the heavy too, but haven't scanned them yet.

switchblade327
03-06-2008, 08:32 PM
Cool man. Just keep in mind that someone would eventually have to rig that hair and that skirt. Capris and a pony tail would be a safer bet.

Also, that blonde hair is going to catch people's eyes more then any other color on the palette so I would go with something less bright and saturated.

cruzaderazn
03-06-2008, 09:51 PM
Yeah, capris would look better too, not to mention easier to make. But the silhoutte becomes less identifiable. Its just a matter of finding the right balance.

I think the hair has to stay because all not all of my female concepts can have a ponytail or hat. It would probably be very rigid, which wouldn't look so bad considering the cartoonish style.I was imagining the hair to be the same yellow as the enineers helmet. Either that, or just black.

switchblade327
03-07-2008, 03:45 PM
Yeah, capris would look better too, not to mention easier to make. But the silhoutte becomes less identifiable. Its just a matter of finding the right balance.

I think the hair has to stay because all not all of my female concepts can have a ponytail or hat. It would probably be very rigid, which wouldn't look so bad considering the cartoonish style.I was imagining the hair to be the same yellow as the enineers helmet. Either that, or just black.

It may hurt the silhouette but unless you rig that skirt separately and make it much, much looser, the silhouette is going to fall apart as soon as you put her in motion anyway (it'll be the one that looks like exploding polys). Remember, the scout not only needs to be able to run but run faster then every other character. Florence Griffith Joyner couldn't spring in a skirt like that. Tight skirts just aren't good for running, in reality or in a game.

I have had to animate cartoony game characters with solid block hair before and trust me, it doesn't work well for game like TF2. Remember, the character needs to be able to look in any direction while running any direction. If it's bones are parented to the head, it's going to clip through the body like crazy and if it's bones are parented to the body, it's going to stretch and deform every time the character looks around.

I'm not trying to rip on your design or anything. It's a cool concept but you need to be thinking of what kinds of actions the character will need to do when designing a character intended for animation.

CheapTrix
10-07-2008, 01:30 AM
Wow, Fade now as well? How awesome. I'm looking forward to the Mod coming together, especially with this team.


Fade - Neko gave me his/her profile drawings of the Engineer and I'm currently working on the modeling of her right now. I'm around 90% done with body / head, but struggling when it comes to the hair. (It covers her face completely)

I am absolutely terrible at texture mapping, especially when it comes to recreating the TF2 style. I intend on posting the status update on this forum as well as the Steam forums once I get the ok from Neko about letting the cat out of the bag. (I want permission to reveal the artwork)

I'm a fan of the Scout, and I'd like to potentially get your help on this Engineer if you're willing to work with me.

Perhaps we both can toss some emails back and forth.


-CheapTrix

Duwom
11-08-2008, 12:25 AM
i have read and seen what you guys have been working on, fade its good you got a model down, but to me it dosn't look like it should, think about it, guys who play tf2 will want most likly a sexy female mod for them to look at, i propose this http://ghostfire.deviantart.com/art/Select-A-Class-87717764?from=full this i would prefeer to download and play tf2 with

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11-08-2008, 12:25 AM
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