need texturing help on ogre

[bombyx]

Well if U wanna go into realistic textures, there are 3 rules : practice, practice, and never forget that texture is not only diffuse map, U need a good bump and a good specular to get a good texture .For layin UV's, my method is you split him into a lot of pieces, map the pieces separatly, and weld it all back, that way U can really focus on details and different materials for different elements .Hope that helped, if not, let me know what U'r lookin after....
Ho one last thing, the model is quite good, so we're waiting for textures, even if you don't like them, show us a textured model, it would help us and you too to get it right

[leigh]

It's more than even just a colour, spec and bump map, it's also about gloss maps (to control the spec falloff), diffusion values, translucency setups (for skin), and a host of other minor things such as setting up the actual surfaces, which can involve a lot more work than just painting the textures :)

It would help us to help you if you could mention a bit about what sort of look you want for this. Don't be shy to use photographs as a starting point either - I often do that to ensure that I am able to paint certain details correctly :)

The trick to creating realistic textures is in ensuring that you have all the necessary details. It's all about attention to detail, and having the patience to paint it all :)

[Gkaine]

hey thanks for the replys i appreciate it :D

bombyx:
i made the uv's pretty easily. here is a link to 1 for the shoulderpad
http://www.purgatory.net/joe/skullshoulderUV.jpg
i would like to know if u guys think that is a good enough uv or if it needs to be redone.

here is how ive been making my uvs
i make a morph. cut the object up, flatten it until i like it. then i make that a planar uv map on the Y or Z, whichever comes out better. then i delete the morph and merge points and the object is back to normal but the UV stays

then i take a screan shot of it... i think the screan shot is what messes me up because when i go to apply the UV it is always a little off ( to tall,short,wide, or thin) and the unwrap plugin i use doesnt seem to work, it generates an image that my comp cant find what program i need to view it with.

and to reply to all that other stuff you mentioned:P i got along road ahead of me

and thanks for the words of encouragement they deffinatley help:thumbsup:

Leigh:
i love your work thanks for respondin to my post. ive been using your website alot and it has helpped me get as far as i have with texturing.
the look im going for is a dirty war worn look. i want the armor to be black and the details of the armors to be a worn gold and perhaps some blood stain on metals.
for the leather things i want them to look like hard leather that could protect from minor blows but i want it to be dirty(ie: his shoulder pads)
and the ogre himself i will probably go with a greenish brown look. he will have to look war torn to.
i havent really looked for refrence pics yet, as i just basicly created this model as i built it. blizzards work influences mine heavily that is probably what inspired this model so i want to keep the same feel as they have if that helps at all.

i wish i could just steal your brain for a day tho that would fix all my troubles ;)

where would you guys start with that UV i posted? that is the shoulderpad i spoke of.
thanks again for the replies

[leigh]

i love your work thanks for respondin to my post. ive been using your website alot and it has helpped me get as far as i have with texturing.

I see you are using LightWave - have you checked out the texturing tuts I did especially for LightWave? They might help you out even more :)
Part 1 (http://www.newtek.com/products/lightwave/tutorials/surface/texturing_for_dummies-001/index.html)
Part 2 (http://www.newtek.com/products/lightwave/tutorials/surface/texturing_for_dummies_002/index.html)
Part 3 (http://www.newtek.com/products/lightwave/tutorials/surface/texturing_for_dummies_003/index.html)
Part 4 (http://www.newtek.com/products/lightwave/tutorials/surface/texturing_for_dummies_004/index.html)
;) Check them out if you haven't already!

the look im going for is a dirty war worn look. i want the armor to be black and the details of the armors to be a worn gold and perhaps some blood stain on metals.

That's pretty simple! All you need to do is make some nice big UV maps of the armour, and then start off by painting your colour maps. Make sure that you make your texture maps nice and big so that you can put good fine detail into them - at LEAST 1000x1000 pixels.

Be sure to keep all the different types of details in their own layers in Photoshop - for example, keep your base colour in one layer, all your scratches in another layer, all your gold details in another, and so on. Then it's just a matter of making sure that you paint all those details well :)

Once you are satisfied with the colour textures, make duplicates of all those layers, desturate them, and start figuring out how each of them will affect the other surface properties, and work onwards like that.

Basically, make duplicates of each of those layers, for EACH of the different surface properties - ie spec, bump, etc.

For example, let's say you had 3 layers in your colour map, namely colour base (the basic colour of the armour), scratches (where the paint or whatever has been scratched through to the bare metal, or whatever the case is) and gold details.
Then, if you wanted to do your bump map next, then you would duplicate all three of these layers, and desaturate them, because bump works with shades of gray. You would then switch off all the colour layers so that you are only working with the bump ones.
Then, decide how each of these layers will affect the bump map. The colour base one is up to you - if it was painted, you might want to include some slight unevenness for paintstrokes. Or you might want to add a slight grain just to give it some texture. Then move onto the scratches layer. How do scratches affect the surface? They go INTO the surface, so darken the scratches layer so that it goes darker than the base layer, thus making grooves into it. Then, the designs layer - if the designs are etched into the surface, you would do something similar to the way that you handled the scratches layer.
Onto the spec layer. The same things applies. Make duplicates of all the layers, switch off the others, and go from there. The base spec layer would be whatever kind of spec you want for it. If the surface showing through the scratches is brighter or duller than the base layer, adjust the brightness of that layer accordingly. For the gold patterns layer, make the spec fairly high, because gold is kind shiny.
And so on and so on and so on :)

If you haven't seen the "Making of" thingies I did on my site, you should check them both out, because I show all my own textures for the two different models - Making Of page (http://leigh.cgcommunity.com)

and the ogre himself i will probably go with a greenish brown look. he will have to look war torn to.
i havent really looked for refrence pics yet, as i just basicly created this model as i built it. blizzards work influences mine heavily that is probably what inspired this model so i want to keep the same feel as they have if that helps at all.

AAAARRRGGHHH!!! Get reference NOW! Never start texturing until you have LOADS of good reference :) It just makes everything so much simpler.

i would like to know if u guys think that is a good enough uv or if it needs to be redone.

It doesn't need to be redone, but it does need to be edited ;)
You need to edit it so that no areas are overlapping in any way, and that is happening in quite a few areas of the map at the moment (don't worry, it's perfectly normal for a UV map).

The best way of editing a UV map, I find, is to make a large square image with a checked pattern on it (I personally use one with red and white checks), and apply it to the model, using the UV map as the projection.
I then set my display to two vertical viewports, the one being the UV map viewport, and the other being a perspective viewport set to display OpenGL textures. Looking at the image applied to the UV map, it's immediately obvious where the UV map needs to be edited, because the pattern becomes distorted in those areas.
Just a tip: you often need to unweld the vertices when editing. Just merge them when' you're done ;)

Happy texturing!!

[BiTMAP]

I just wanna thank you for asking Gkaine this was a good question. As for you Leigh, thank you for your answer, even though I use XSI I'm sure i've learned some things and It will help me out as you always seem to do. My only question is when working from photos how do you transfer what you see in them to your texture?

[leigh]

Hey Bitmap :)
I tend to take the photo into it's own layer, desaturate it, use the High Pass filter on it, and then use a blending mode like overlay.
I then paint details of my own into the layers above and below it, copying the details out of the photo :)
Sometimes part of the photo remains in the final texture as well, it all depends ;)

[Gkaine]

thanx leigh that really is gonna help alot :bounce: :bounce::bounce:


and thx bitmap:D

[Gkaine]

well here is a perfect pic of what im goin for
http://www.purgatory.net/joe/61.jpg
edit: btw what is the highpass filter? where is it what does it do:)

[Matthewma]

High pass filter is under Filter>Other>High Pass.

Basically is what it does is flattens it, not sure the correct term for it but it trys to take all the lighting out of your image so you are left with a flat texture; awesome when you desaturate it(sometimes you don't have to and then blend it over top of a colour map.

Anyway, do you mind saying who made the characture of Thrall?

Looks a lot like another animation "The Viking" that another great artist did.

Edit: Just to add; this was the artist I was talking about: http://www.3dluvr.com/cemre/

[Gkaine]

that is a pic from an artist who works at blizzard( i think). his first name is ryan thats all i remember:P i think it was the 1 used in all of their cinematics. i had alot of other pics of it but have misplaced them atm :(
and thanks for answerin my q :)

[Matthewma]

Hey thanks, but that Orc definatly wasn't used in the cinematics; while good, it is almost a completly differenty style of Orc and the armor he is wearing was Doomhammers old armor that only Thrall wears at the moment :)

[Gkaine]

i have screanshots of this model in the scenes in the cinematics somewhere. ill search around and see if i can find them. also i have an avi of an animation he is in but never made it to the game, and its using the same voice actor. but then again i could be totaly wrong :)
EDIT: i found the wire frames and stuff but not sure if the original artist wants me posting his stuff now that i think about it :hmm:

[Matthewma]

Well there were a lot of Orcs during the dream sequence of that battle; so who knows he could be in there.

Anyway; these are of Thrall from the game and the last one is Grom Hellscream in shaded mode; I have a textured version of that model in its later stages(a few things were changed) if you're interested I could dig up...



http://www.planetwarcraft.com/image.asp?/war3/media/screenshots/cinematics/grunt.jpg

http://blizzard.com/war3/wallpaper/wallpaper06.shtml

http://www.planetwarcraft.com/image.asp?/war3/media/concepts/colorart/hellscream.jpg

[nickRX]

i think gkaines picture IS thrall.

if you look at the pics you posted matt, the first one is a grunt and not thrall first of all :)

but ok look at the wallpaper of THRALL, it has the exact same armor as the picture gkaine posted ;)

if i still had wc3 installed i would take a screenshot of the cinematics heh

[Gkaine]

the texture on the second 1 is almost exactly what im goin for. and the weapon is great. i need to rework my weapon, as it sux:)
edit: and btw i think the ss i posted was just a refined version of the second link u had mentioned:) that wallpaper was out a good few months before the game was released.
i wanna take screan shots of the stuff shown on the dvd that came with the collectors edition but i dont know how cuz screan shot never works on dvds.

[Matthewma]

Ok; Nick; dude, the image is called "grunt" but it is Thrall, because it is the first cinematic of the game where Thrall is having his prophetic visions of the Burning Legion.

It's raining, he is in a hut, and a crow is behind him; it's directly from the game's cinematic; I like Gkaine's screenshot; but it is definatly not Thrall from the game, that is why I called it a characature because it looks more like a ultra stylized version of Thrall.

Also, yes that armor is the same; that is what I was trying to get at; that Armor was worn by the second Chieftain of the Orcish Horde; Doomhammer.

When Doomhammer died he gave it to Thrall; there is no other armor like that in the game because it is almost legendary because of Doomhammer; so it's not the basic Grunt armor :)

That is why I was saying, if the Orc Gkaine posted is in the game; he must be hidden pretty well or the continuity of the story would be a bit off as well as the style of Orc.

I know my Warcraft :)

[Gkaine]

ok enough warcraft knowledge battling and back 2 texture tips:D

[nickRX]

hmm, well im not too sure becuase the grunt picture has a goofy face like a grunt does....

i havent played wc3 in a while though so whatever =)

[bombyx]

Huhu.......now that Leigh came in, I don't think my advice could help you a lot:D .Anyway, I see that U have your infos (btw, great website Leigh, a gold mine for texturing!!!), so now I wait for updates, show us more!!!!!!

[Gkaine]

im having an impossible time with this:( ive made abunch of different head textures and they all suck badly. here is an example of 1
http://www.purgatory.net/joe/re.jpg
i think my PS painting skill is what is greatly hurting me here

[Matthewma]

Shoudl check out that low poly head texturing tutorial featured on the main page today, what you need is reference as well; which you have; but the example you are showing seems like you are seeing it as one colour, get a variety of tones in there, then blemishes, pours, pimples, cuts, bruises, darker around the eyes, etc...

I am by no means an expert though so there are different ways of doing things, but I always start out putting as much colour that fits into it and as many imperfections as possible

Also an overall texture with a bump and highlights with a spec(and a variety of other things depending on what package you use... I am in Xsi which I find a bit limiting texture wise for a newbie like myself)

[BiTMAP]

what you have thar so far is pretty good for the start :) now you go and use a sharper brush to add more crisp details, then a bump map to add some lighting details (details brought out with good lighting)... well like bumps and such. and a spec map to get things like the tip of the nose more spec. then the eye sockets... Then with some good lighting you can have a wonderful ogre :)


btw, your modeling skills are very good :)

[Gkaine]

thanks bitmap. id post an update but not happy with any of the outcomes yet

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