Dilemma: Which Version to Get?

[JDex]

From what I've gathered... |3D will be discontinued and XSI is the future, but I might be wrong (happens from time to time). Go with XSI...

[TCLee]

Heya,

I'm a longtime user of Soft 3D (7yrs).

I've resisted the urge to switch to XSI when it first came out because 1.0 and 1.5 were really buggy.

I've since tried XSI 2.03 and the 3.0Exp package and I have to say that it beats Soft 3D easy. A lot of stuff that you have to struggle with to do, is built into XSI itself, not to mention that Soft 3D is behind Maya/Max 5.1. This means that you'll be getting the shorter end of the stick if you are competing with work thats done by someone else on another package.

There's a certain standard out there now that people expect to see and its easier to achieve it with a software thats been updated.

Thats my 2 cents anyways.

Good luck!

[flameon]

XSI is a great package but costs abit of money.
I'd say that the only other program out there that is as good as XSI is Maya. Maya has better particles, but for animation and modeling I believe that XSI beats it.
I have been using 3.01 for almost 4 months but at the same time I have only seen Maya's 4.5 and not the next one


Anyways good luck with your choice

[ThE_JacO]

Originally posted by flameon
XSI is a great package but costs abit of money.
I'd say that the only other program out there that is as good as XSI is Maya. Maya has better particles, but for animation and modeling I believe that XSI beats it.
I have been using 3.01 for almost 4 months but at the same time I have only seen Maya's 4.5 and not the next one


Anyways good luck with your choice

OT:
Maya DOES have better body dynamics atm for SoftBody, RigidBody and cloth (when you add syflex) but for particles...
I wouldn't be in a haste to draw the line.
where XSI still lacks particle goals it does lots of nifty tricks that Maya's technology can't get close to (weighting particles and dealing with them like normal mesh geometry).
The new XSI's particle system is right up there with Maya's, wich one is better (since right now there's a substantial difference in features) depends by the job

IT:
@ Signal to noise - make an effort and get XSI and put it under MNT, it will be a really solid long term investment, since after 1.0 no release took more then 10 months to be developed, 3.5 is at the horizon, there are some really good promotions right now like it always happens when new versions are about to be released (In the states, soon to hit Europe as well) and in one year from now you have damn solid chances to get a v4 as well.

It would help if you could tell what your freelancing jobs will be tho, this would also help in advicing about wich version of XSI to get (adv or essential, workstation or enterprise).

[ggg]

If its just for a hobby and price is an issue why not just use EXP or enroll in enough classes somewhere and get the academic version of XSI for 495 or permanent for 795 that's what a lot of people do for home use.

Also since its hobby and you are around the forums there is a lot less interaction and help with SI3D and increassingly more tuts and other material will be made for XSI.

SI3D is to XSI what Alias is to Maya and sort of what Prisims was to Houdini. Oddly there are still things from those older apps not ported yet, but they are the older apps and the newer ones offer better workflow.

After using Houdini I could never go back to SI3D but I'm OK for now with XSI. Its just not nearly as flexible.

Have you used SI3D much? That will give you your answer.If not since you'd be buying it, get a 30 day temp license from your reseller to evaluate it.

PS neither MAYA nor XSI have great particles.

[ThE_JacO]

Originally posted by ggg

PS neither MAYA nor XSI have great particles.

I would be tempted to ask wich app, IYO, has them, but then I already know your answer :p

Don't be in a haste to diss XSI's or Maya's particles mate, while we'd all agree about how many nice things HDN can do with them there are still features and workflows here and there that will make you wish for another system from time to time (XSI's, Maya's or occasionally even LW's or Afterburn's just for the voxel shading).

[Signal2Noise]

Originally posted by ThE_JacO
...make an effort and get XSI and put it under MNT, it ...

What does "MNT" mean?

Thanks all for the feedback. I'm going to talk to the Avid dealer in my area about getting XSI. I'm not too sure about the school/course thing yet but that may be an option as well.

[ThirdEye]

Originally posted by ThE_JacO
I would be tempted to ask wich app, IYO, has them, but then I already know your answer :p




Try Cinema 4D Thinking Particles ;)

(here's a sample http://www.maxon.net/pages/products/c4d/r81/movie_jellydonuts.html )

[ggg]

OK afterburn is really cool. Haven't tried Maxons they look interesting.
XSi and Maya just don't yet have the incredible amount of easy control using the extensive expression language and variables I have with HDN especailly relative to shaders and geometry generation. XSI is faster that's becuse it does less :p I'm just being tough as 3 and 3.5 are not yet the leaps they might need to be at that price to attract some users from competitors IMHO :) but 4.0 should be quite something.

Does SI3D still include the seperate particle package? Signal to Noise that might be an issue for you too.

[JIII]

I would deffinitely try thinking particles. and thanks to some good user initiative we now have a free softbody thingy.

[3DDave]

(IMHO) I think the choice of 3D package is highly dependant on what you are going to use the package for and what clients you are planning to do work for. Softimage, Maya and Houdini are very time consuming packages for producing animation and the rendering costs are high if you need to use Mental Ray. All three packages are used in commercial and film productions that are ususally backed up by a medium to large team. The results are certainly fantastic (Two Towers, Episode 2).

The next tier of packages being, C4D, Lightwave and Max are more managable programs for individuals and smaller teams.

For instance, Lightwave has been used in several films and TV series, (Roughnecks, Max steel, Episode 2's R2D2 and of course Jimmy Neutron).

Of course if your goal is for learning the package to become an animator/TD for a job, then the choice is dependant on what programs are used at the site that you are planning on working at. Although, I believe any "talented" animator can easily pick up a different tool set to learn and become productive. It's usually harder to learn good animation techniques than a programs work flow.

Personally I use Lightwave 7.5/Motion Builder 4 and Digital Fusion 4, because these programs fit my budget and quality level for the work that I do and I am not a career animator so I don't need Maya or Softimage experience. Although these are cool packages, they don't fit into my current plans.

[Signal2Noise]

Okaaaay. Now we're getting off-topic here. I am not interested in other software packages. I own 3ds max and have tried both the Maya PLE and XSI EXP demos. I'm not too sure about Houdini but I do know it's expensive so that's out of the equation for me.

I decided I liked Softimage's workflow and tools the best. Based on other comments here I've also decided to save a bit more dinero and get XSI.

[JDex]

Welcome aboard Signal... I knew you'd make the "right" choice... lol

Oh, btw get Ed Harriss's Videos... they are outstanding.

[GavinG]

The Mesmer books may be a help too :)
Although videos are much much better.

Gav

[wmendez]

good choice based on what you felt comfortable using:thumbsup:

If your looking into tapes / Videos:

ED Harriss Series are good
Cineframe XSI Fundamentals
3D Buzz XSI VTM
and Keep an eye out for Bernard Lebel's 3D Production Solutions and Tips coming soon.


Books:
Mesmers illuminated Character is good and so far the only one I have.

[JDex]

Just a quick request...

When Bernard Label's Tip's & Tricks comes out... someone make a post in this here forum... that way I (and many others) won't miss out...

TIA

[wmendez]

Will do

[dg3d]

After reading all post, the best choice (my opinion anyway) its that i would save the money to get XSI. So for me you did right one.

[Atyss]

Originally posted by JDex
Just a quick request...

When Bernard Label's Tip's & Tricks comes out... someone make a post in this here forum... that way I (and many others) won't miss out...

TIA

Hehe that would be nice :thumbsup:

By the way, my name is Lebel, not Label :wavey:

The product is called XSI - Production Solutions And Tips. It could be out quite soon actually....

Thanks for the plug.
Bernard

[JDex]

I knew that... sorry atyss, why can't keyboards know what you want to type.

I am looking forward to it...

[Apoclypse]

I.m getting of topic again but i don't agree that maya's and XSi's particles are even in the same league. Maya's particles and dynamics are incredible and easy to use ( okay that is a bit of an overstatement, XSI's particles are far easier to control and use) as for being able to uses deformers on the particles its interesting. However my gripe since day one and it is going to be even more so now that maya has a new hardware render buffer. Is the rendering of the particles which is slow and not catered o handle huge data sets with reasonable speed. Until they implement the gl_line and gl_point primitives or mental ray gaine the point and line primitives like renderman in a workable way I'm going to say maya's particles are better because they are faster and more pratical. Imagine doing a huge desert scene with huge amounts of particles floating aroung because you want that sandy quality to your scene, now you can argue that xsi has the line bilboard shader but is all but useles if you are planning a huge amounts of particles rolling aroung at the same time. Maya can do this and with realtive speed becuase it uses the geometry buffers in your video card essentially giving you a near realtime performance boost ( depends on you video card and how many passes you set for motion blur and such)

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