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ChimpanG
11-28-2007, 07:20 PM
It kind of bugs me that 2+ years after "next gen" arrived with no future consoles announced properly that we are still calling the same stuff "next gen."
Most of this stuff should be classed current gen now.
Thoughts.

ArchangelTalon
11-28-2007, 07:32 PM
Yeah, I know what you mean, heh. It annoys me, too.

I tend to try and use the term "high end" if I mean normal/spec/etc mapped stuff.

Auctane
11-28-2007, 07:42 PM
Agreed --- thats all i have

** emmm I guess unless you are talking about the next generation of game graphics... which... errr... yeah?

Gaboon
11-28-2007, 07:56 PM
I never actually thought about that. Funny and true.

NeoNautica
11-28-2007, 08:45 PM
Its a buzzword that marketing and suits like to use, so it will stick around for a while.

"This doesn't look next gen enough." is a phrase I hear thrown around sometimes, but doesn't actually explain what needs to be improved. heh.

Another fav. is "Make it more edgy."

Auctane
11-28-2007, 09:52 PM
Well to actually have a discussion about it, I think it looks ignorant to use the term “Next-Gen” (meaning next generation) when you are referring to something that is part of the current generation. It started to annoy me just after the 360 was released. On a further note, if/when there is another revolution in the way game graphics are handled, what will it be called... “nexter gen”, “next gen II” or “more nextest gen”? Maybe we should start a poll.

Ramseus
11-28-2007, 11:01 PM
^ That's basically my thoughts too. I can't wait for the nextiest gennester to the max graphics. :rolleyes:

JuddWack
11-28-2007, 11:15 PM
It will probably be refered to as next gen until news of the true next gen consols starts surfacing.

Desmo
11-28-2007, 11:49 PM
My wife is pregnant so that means our child is "nextgen", therefore our child will look a lot better and also perform better than both of us. :)

zen
11-29-2007, 12:16 AM
Its a buzzword that marketing and suits like to use, so it will stick around for a while.

"This doesn't look next gen enough." is a phrase I hear thrown around sometimes, but doesn't actually explain what needs to be improved. heh.

Another fav. is "Make it more edgy."

hehe
i'd like to add to the list:

Buzz
Hype
"Casual Player"
"Wow effect"

iSOBigD
11-29-2007, 01:52 AM
It's all DX9 so it's not "next-gen" at all...that's just what they had to use to make newbies understand that the PS3 and XBox360 were different than the PS2 and Xbox.

iSOBigD
11-29-2007, 01:57 AM
double-post, sorry

Auctane
11-29-2007, 03:28 AM
My wife is pregnant so that means our child is "nextgen", therefore our child will look a lot better and also perform better than both of us. :)

and cost more

Lamont
11-29-2007, 03:29 AM
NextGen is supposed to be the Mountain Dew fueled, bazzilion polygon, 50 gigs of textures monster you all are going to love... regardless if you don't want to love it. And just watch because the PS4, Uus (Wii 2) and the XBox720 are going to bring in the new generation of NextGen: Gen|Next = Son of NextGen.

You see that? The little "|". Yeah, that's called marketing. You will love it for being different and women will want to smell like it.

Thank me later.

Auctane
11-29-2007, 04:04 AM
Gen|Next... thats really... edgy

switchblade327
11-29-2007, 01:54 PM
Another fav. is "Make it more edgy."

I think you've just summed up "next gen" art direction in one sentence :)

I hate the phrase too but considering how xbox/ps2 is still fresh in a lot of our minds, we need some universal language to differentiate between the two. I do know some people who refer to those consoles as "last gen" and what used to be next gen as "current gen."

Uus... haha. Nice.

MK2
11-29-2007, 10:23 PM
Ahhh come on. Next gen... web 2.0... marketing farts, nothing more. This time you belived it... hopefully i future you dont. Marketing is allways a stuupid catchy word for a short lifecycle of a product.

Next gen will be used as long xbox, ps3 and others exist. as soon a xbox720 comes out, you wont heare that phrase again.
Same for web 2.0 as soon there is a new kind of web-interface you wont hear it again.

But ppl that didnt work close with PR Agencies allways believe in these empty words. All the ppls i know who have worked closley with PR-ppls(idiots), are extremly resistant against these hype and catchy words.
As long as the product exists you will hear that crap over and over again, even if it doesent fit anymore, because time has changed.

Auctane
11-30-2007, 07:09 AM
you like apples?

~ your the one who used your're ideas ~



Gen|Next

switchblade327
11-30-2007, 11:35 AM
Ahhh come on. Next gen... web 2.0... marketing farts, nothing more. This time you belived it... hopefully i future you dont. Marketing is allways a stuupid catchy word for a short lifecycle of a product.


While marketing may love the term, it's hardly empty as there's a very real difference. So how do you differentiate between the last generation of consoles and the current one?

Espen
11-30-2007, 01:45 PM
It would be much better so just give the generations of concoles numbers! Instead of terms like "next" it woulb be console generation 3 for instance. We would just have to define the first console generation like e.g. playstation 1 and count generations form that in ongoing numbers.

After some years it would be like with version numbers of software packages. One could say:" We still work on concole gen 3, but I heard your company is actually doing gen 5 already?" Something like that.

And after some years they will start to name concoles after the year of production. Console 2011, Console 2013... :wise:

With the term "next gen" I always have to think of Star Trek. Technology that want's to be modern but will soon be so outdated no one ever wants to go back to that stuff again.


greets
--Espen

utchamp
12-01-2007, 05:35 PM
Next gen will be used as long xbox, ps3 and others exist. as soon a xbox720 comes out, you wont heare that phrase again.
Same for web 2.0 as soon there is a new kind of web-interface you wont hear it again.


actually now they probably won't ever stop using it... :/

and the real term for the "nextier gen" consoles will be


future Gen :D

AndrewRaZ
12-01-2007, 09:27 PM
It would be much better so just give the generations of concoles numbers! Instead of terms like "next" it woulb be console generation 3 for instance. We would just have to define the first console generation like e.g. playstation 1 and count generations form that in ongoing numbers.

After some years it would be like with version numbers of software packages. One could say:" We still work on concole gen 3, but I heard your company is actually doing gen 5 already?" Something like that.

And after some years they will start to name concoles after the year of production. Console 2011, Console 2013... :wise:
--Espen

The problem with that is consoles come out different years, with similar features. For all of Sony's hype, the PS3 and the 360 are very similar, yet they came out a year apart. So is the PS3 then "better" and "newer" and "next gen-ier" than the 360? The jury's still out on that one, but the judge on the bench keeps shouting "they're the same" into his gavel. To make matters worse, the Wii has very similar capabilities to the PS2, and it came out between the two of them. And then there's the Phantom Gaming console, whose specifications keep changing (is it even in development any more?). I still want my mavis beacon phantom game.

Lamont, will Gen|Next be a colonge type product, or something aerosol, or just something that is hung on your mirror or 64ghz wireless controller?

Auctane
01-10-2008, 04:30 PM
The problem with that is consoles come out different years...

Its not a problem if people stop calling things by catch phrases and start using the english language. Even with all the 'marketing scheme' excuses people tossed out there, I still fail to see why people continue to call high end 3d game art next generation?

CGmonkey
01-10-2008, 04:40 PM
Before, the lines between generations were laser sharp.. Nowadays, not so much. You see the full range of graphics (guitar hero to crysis). What we're starting to realize is that art direction is a major thing and not just trying to make it realistic.

switchblade327
01-10-2008, 04:55 PM
What we're starting to realize is that art direction is a major thing and not just trying to make it realistic.

We are? God, I hope so.

arrangemonk
01-10-2008, 08:18 PM
i would use a generation name made of avrage "capability characteristics"...

|/*the cool | bar which is used earlier :P*/average tris per frame|ld(texture width)|shader model|

for eg // i think the ps3 works with these
|1.0M|11|3.0|

or somlier calling a game generation the same like the shader generation lol
edit:
but personally i like giving boring things funny names
so following this i would call the current gen(or next gen ho youre still calling it) hmm... HERBERT, and the last gen BERT, and the next revoluin in ghraphics programming would get the name HERBERT SUCKS!

iSOBigD
01-10-2008, 09:11 PM
i would use a generation name made of avrage "capability characteristics"...

|/*the cool | bar which is used earlier :P*/average tris per frame|ld(texture width)|shader model|

for eg // i think the ps3 works with these
|1.0M|11|3.0|
*squints* What have you got there, numbers?

Here's something I found funny from the Far Cry 2 for PC, PS3 and Xbox 360 (http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/news/36008/Far-Cry-2-for-PS3-and-Xbox-360) announcement.
(Far Cry 2) set in one of the most beautiful environments in the world, Africa, Far Cry 2 will be hitting the Playstation 3 and Xbox 360 in addition to the PC [...] brought to life by high-definition next-gen technology
Well it's about time we can finally play a PC game in HD! :rolleyes: This retardedness must stop. I played Quake 1 in HD.

Auctane
01-10-2008, 10:27 PM
Well the reality is - there is no generation.

My prediction is this - eventually GPU's will be fast enough where people can no longer tell a difference between good looking well optimized game graphics and film graphics. When this happens, the CG film world will be looking for game artists. Even when the bridge between games and film is complete, there will still be 2D games, hand held games, casual games, MMO, RTS, FPS, Fighting games... all with different demands in the quality of game graphics... all being played on the latest hardware... just as is happening now. So where will the generation gap be? What runs as an RTS graphic on the 360 was the high end on the xbox... No generation, just high end.

On another note about the current paradigm in game graphics, a few months ago it was starting to drive me nuts how everything was looking the same. I read somewhere that a game school grad had deemed someones work "not dirty enough". It made me think that maybe the acceptance of all these formally educitated types into the industry have forced the game industry into the paradigm in the first place... Perhaps the very thing that the young game industry avoided for so long had broken down the gates and done exactly what was feared, ____________.

matsman
01-10-2008, 10:36 PM
hihi.. yes... I played the original Doom in HD... I've played that even beyond what most hd televisions would give you (you see I have 1200x1920 at my disposal at work :) )
But I get distracted, what I really wanted to ask is: dear arrangemonk: who is herbert? I am quite sure you have someone in mind yes?

BTW now we have current gen, next gen en previous gen which are all very stupid (especially the last one which to me is a reason not to go this way to madness any further)

how about we give em latin alphabetized names.... like alpha gen... and now we are in gamma gen.. or g-gen for short.
It's cool, it's though because of the military ring to it, Whadda you say?

Thanks for all these delicious posts!

switchblade327
01-11-2008, 05:49 AM
Well the reality is - there is no generation.

My prediction is this - eventually GPU's will be fast enough where people can no longer tell a difference between good looking well optimized game graphics and film graphics.

Graphically speaking, you're right. This is inevitable. But only when we're talking about screenshots. The day when game AI can simulate film like behaviors is a long way off and the day that player controlled film-quality characters behave realistically isn't likely to happen before we're jacking our ps7s right into our cerebrums.

arrangemonk
01-11-2008, 03:22 PM
what I really wanted to ask is: dear arrangemonk: who is herbert? I am quite sure you have someone in mind yes?

there was a commercial for "bluna" sometime ago, bluna is a softdrink

man one: "i give you money if you claim that bluna tastes good"
man two: "i call that extortion"
man one: "call it however you want"
man two: "ok then i'll call it Herbert "

hmm that was all i think^^

matsman
01-11-2008, 04:01 PM
Arrangemonk: aahh that is soo funny :D I completely dig commercials in which they have a good sense of humour particularly when they kick themselves with it :) Off to see if i can find it somewhere >>>

but before I go. When the whole discussion about hardware generations is more or less obsolete as auctane states... since there are going to be pixel art games on the xbox1440...

should we maybe then classify the complexity of an engine instead... I mean as a fan of cardgames I recently tried the quite new marvel vs system card game on pc from konami.. which was a very bad product with lots of dirty leftovers from the console input dragging game speed down to totally boring and very irritaring... but the company whio made the thing priced the engine they made it with as if it was the ut3 engine.... So while I would classify the UT3 engine as 3rd generation I would definitely calssify that cardgame engine as something 1st generation... but since there is also pong... we have had a whole lot more of generations we don't even take in consideration.

Oklay... been typing to much now... off to find the spot :)

Auctane
01-11-2008, 06:12 PM
I say, just let it things flow, but say what you mean. "Next gen" is used all over the place, those words have meaning. The meaning is not high end game graphics.

Agreed on the animation and hardware and stuff.

blastzone
01-12-2008, 02:59 PM
lol. i think its less a marketing thing. i think in the first instance it was the discription used to mark the new generation appart. but i think in the end it was what the customers clung to. to the average joe the 360 was a next gen console.. they couldnt tell you what the differenace and even what last gen meant.. it just WAS next gen. the next generation will be evolution.. or revolutionarry. and we will all be bitching about art leads and directors saying.. yeeeaahh.. it doesnt look evolutionarry enough.. make it more edgy...

switchblade327
01-12-2008, 04:35 PM
... and we will all be bitching about art leads and directors saying.. yeeeaahh.. it doesnt look evolutionarry enough.. make it more edgy...

I once heard of a game script being described by a publisher as "not next-gen enough." A freaking script.

matsman
01-12-2008, 04:49 PM
HA!

Id be interested to know how one goes about fixing that problem... and what the script in question was supposed to be doing that is was not next gen enough.
You know these things?

Thanks!

switchblade327
01-12-2008, 05:54 PM
Id be interested to know how one goes about fixing that problem... and what the script in question was supposed to be doing that is was not next gen enough.
You know these things?


I would assume they meant it wasn't cliched and shallow enough to stand with most of the current crop of games.

PhilOsirus
01-12-2008, 06:28 PM
Lots of teams haven't even finished their first "next-gen" games yet, so it's normal. The transition is taking longer this time.

blastzone
01-13-2008, 06:03 PM
well the script would have to be simplistic. you gotta remember that gamings dumbing down for the masses. hence the vanishing of adventure games they dont have a high enough apeal cos alot of people cant dedicate the brainpoweer to figure them out. you want something simpole to follow. like a blockbuster movie.. simple and layed out so it can be skim read.

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