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View Full Version : stumped on my characters face, need help


joshex
11-23-2007, 05:59 AM
alright, so I'm pretty good with making objects look exactly as desired (and texturing), and suddenly I move onto the next part of my game AKA the main character's face (a crude sketch of which is my avatar)

anyways my porblem is I can't figure out how to make a human face out of the mesh monkey!, so I tried using a mesh UV sphere which I found to be more hassle than I wanted to deal with...

but as I am just a novice in blender to begin with I don't know where to go from here, should I make all sorts of separate items and strew them together to make a face? (because I figure I might be able to do that) or is there some simple (human) wireframe head other than the monkey?

how do you make your character's heads?

(please give as much written advice as possible as I am limited by a 4.4KB internet access and can't download or view large movies..)

fktt
11-23-2007, 08:13 AM
i build my heads from scratch, btw some good video tutorials about modeling in blender can be found here:
http://www.montagestudio.org/tut/

LetterRip
11-24-2007, 12:03 AM
Josh,

if you are using sculpting - starting with a cube usually works best. Just creat a cube, add a few levels of multires. Enter sculpt mode, turn on x mirroring and start learning how to sculpt :).

They if you need a good topology use the retopo tool to recreate a new topology on top of the mesh. See wiki.blender.org for usage of retopo and of sculpting.

Otherwise you need to learn basic box modeling or point to point modeling skills.

LetterRip

FreakyDude
11-24-2007, 07:33 PM
Learn about topology either way, sculpting from a cube can get some nice results, but really GOOD results are generally achieved by starting over a clean base.
Learn about topology, edgeloops and edgeflow, build your head, THEN start to sculpt over that if you want. Anyway, thatīs how i see it.

joshex
11-29-2007, 08:24 AM
tanks for the help all, I went on wiki.blender.org and found a link to a site with premade objects (including a full female figure) so I'm working off of that right now I actually have the face finnished now, and started to work my way down. now I'm on the breasts.... and I'm having trouble getting them into the proper size and shape. but thats just a trial and error thing that I'll eventually fix...

on a side note:
hair: there are two ways to do hair to my knowledge: a pollygon in the general shape of the characters hair, and using particles to create hair strands, which do you suggest for a game environment?

by the way I can't find the sculpt mode listed in my version of blender... I'm using 2.42a. and I know quite a bit about the science of faces so I was Ok there I'm just not fluent enough with blenders interface yet to create my own from scratch..

thanks for your help, I've learned quite a bit in blender this week!

LetterRip
11-29-2007, 08:58 AM
Sculpt is in 2.45 (and 2.44).

If you wanted a prebuilt figure you can use makehuman which has a premade character whose proportions you can adjust with sliders, and then export to Blender for final tweaks.

LetterRip

joshex
12-02-2007, 06:06 AM
still onto the point of how to make my characters hair, what would you suggest an object in the shape of her hair or actual hair strands?

chipmasque
12-02-2007, 08:32 AM
For any game tech, you want to be very lean on your polygon and compute cycles budgets. Sculpted meshes are polygon-fat, and many particle effects can gobble CPU cycles if not specifically designed for game use.

Better to learn to model low-to-medium polygon counts first, because the results not only fit a game environment better, but the skills will be the foundation for more complex work with sculpted models. Rigging and skinning a low-poly model is a lot easier than something dense like a sculptable mesh, as is UV mapping and texturing.

One you have a grasp of fundamentals, you can expand into areas like normal mapping, which can use a high-poly sculpted mesh to "shape-map" a much lower poly count game-friendly model.

For game models, hair is best done using tried and true techniques like texturing large polygon "masses" with painted hair, employing alpha channels for transparency to get the "feathery" look hair should have. If the Blender GE is fairly up to date, you'll be able to spend plenty of polygons on your model's "wig," and may be able to incorporate some kinds of game physics for realistic hair motion ( I'm basing this on my experience with the Unreal 2/2.5 GE -- maybe Blender's isn't as advanced?) In any case, particle-based hair may be great for render-to-file projects, but I doubt it's efficient enough for game use.

LetterRip
12-02-2007, 08:40 AM
Current SVN has tangentspace normalmap baking. You can sculpt, retopologize (using retopology paint or just projecting geometry onto the object), then bake the detail from the sculpting mesh to a normalmap for the new mesh.

Blenders GE can currently only handle relatively small poly counts, and it is not recommended for anything other than prototyping (although some rather fun games and demos have been done with it).

LetterRip

chipmasque
12-02-2007, 01:58 PM
Current SVN has tangentspace normalmap baking.Bravo! Any links to examples yet?

fktt
12-03-2007, 12:57 PM
Bravo! Any links to examples yet?

http://blenderartists.org/forum/showthread.php?t=110889

kernond
12-03-2007, 01:55 PM
http://www.montagestudio.org/video_tutorials/

joshex
12-04-2007, 06:29 AM
I've decided I'm going to do a "mix" of an object in the sape of her hair with particles on the outside to add the "texture". rather than just attaching a picture to the faces... it should cut down the polly usage to a point where a modern system can handle it aka: gamecube (which I would like to use to test the final game)

ok lots of questions this time:

speaking of gamecube, if I export my game as a ".nendo" will that allow me to play it on a nintendo system?

also speaking of exporting a "game"; does "game blender" come with blender3D 2.42a or do I have to download it seperately? if so where?

and if not how do I access it?


also with the above questions:
I coming to the point where I should be looking through game engines now, I'd like to make my own but don't know how yet. I might use game blender if I can making it do what I want.

my game is a 3rd person/ 1st person (zelda-like) action adventure ("zelda-like" meaning; no levels) this game is also going to be non-commercial, I plan to make this game purely for my portfolio.

so if you have any suggestions of game engines to use, please speak up.

thanks!

and also, nobody seems to have noticed who my character is yet, if you don't know I'm not telling! :D

LetterRip
12-04-2007, 07:11 AM
The Blender game engine is part of the main blender binary (press PKEY to run it), there is also a seperate standalone version of the game engine in the same location that the binary was installed.

I'm not sure how well particles work in the game engine.

nendo is not Ninetendo :) nendo is the format of a rather old modeling suite.

To run on a nintendo you would need to get a developers kit from Nintendo (which costs a fair amount) so that isn't likely an option for you.

LetterRip

joshex
12-05-2007, 05:40 AM
"p" seems to run a game (start game) thats already made (if one is made and loaded). and the stand alone version listed as "blender player" wont run for me...

I am guessing I need to actually program this game my self in order to do anything like that, I don't have the skills to program quite yet...

all I know is xbasic, and very little of that... I suppose it could be done with "IF THEN" statements...(joke of sorts)

that would be funny a whole game made out of IF THEN statements!

anyways, any help? and again any ideas of which engine might work best for me based on what I said about my game above?

JesseGraffam
02-21-2008, 07:47 PM
Do you have a WIP thread made for this character? It's quite hard to guide you and give you advice sight unseen. If I could see the mesh, I could give you pointers. One thing though, if you really are trying to learn Blender and how to model, why are you downloading base meshes?

AnonymousArtist
02-21-2008, 09:05 PM
Hey Joshsex

Using particals, is an advanced topic, and I'd like to encourage you to start simple first.

Heres a tut on doing lowpoly hair.

http://www.poopinmymouth.com/process/hair_tutorial/hair_01.htm

Game Engines... Well I'm only tiny bit famiular with the API / SDK kind, I'm not even
knowledgable on BGE, but I wouldn't focus on that unless you really want a good
challendge - the size of a big mountain. Learning the aspects of 3D asset building is
a good field to specialize in. But if you learn BGE, I do have a friend who has shown
me some really cool demos, but keep in mind, BGE is not as robust as something
like Crystal Space (source code game engine) or OGRE 3D.

Therefore, make all you geometry as low poly as possible - hair too - so you can spread the poly budget out to other areas in the game that need detail too, i.e. maps, NPC's and
enemies.

And Sorry for being rude in that other thread, if I came off that way...

Good luck in all your future endeavors.

joshex
02-22-2008, 04:23 AM
my character is almost done actually, I downloaded a base mesh just to "see" how it could be done, I mean at that point I didn't know that if you added a subsurf to an object it would make it smooth!

bassically this was an old thread, but on a side note I could use a little help.

last night I went in to "fix" my characters breasts, I had made them out of a UV sphere, and then I joined them to the character's mesh, and as you can immagine they didn't turn out as smooth as the rest.

but I figured out if I replace the faces with faces from the actual character, it becomes smooth, but it's allot of faces!, because I not only have to smooth out the outer clothes but the breasts themselves (my character is wearing a sort of leotard) so it has to be smooth.

is there any way to just replace these faces with ones from a different part of the mesh, easier than doing it individualy vertice by vertice?

as for the particle based hair, it seems to be alright thankfully, I mean I'm using a ATI radeon x300 with memory to match, is this a (good) graphics set up? I know there are much better cards....

but still it renders really quickly despite any subsurfing or particles, about 10 sec roughly. so on a more powerfull graphics setup and a more zoomed out zoom level it should render very quickly! :) it would only get slow if you zoom in too close which I might not allow via camera depth settings...

but as for that tutorial, I see how I could do that in blender with the help of the GIMP and texturing. but for right now, the particle system is rendering quickly... well not in game mode but I might use Irlict for game graphics now that I've seen what it can do! but still I'll give my meshes thier basic paths and controlls in blender, becasue the logic bricks seem quite simple..

I "might" start posting pictures of what I've done so far, some of them animated (flashing) by an out side source, basically multiple pics of the item at different emit levels, then I just set them as different layers in the GIMP...save as a .gif and presto flashing image.... but yeah I still need to be able to do it /in/ the game. irlict supports stuff like that, thats why before I suggested a combination of blender and Irlict.

if you were wondering I started off as a 2D animator, thats where much of my concept art came from :) some of it optically in 3D!

but yeah no harm done! I understood why you would have been a little sarcastic before, I mean I didn't give you much other than "will you join my team" and expected serious attraction to the project!:rolleyes: , that was my bad!

Edit: well so much for Irrlicht... I tried compiling it from it's make file and from the make files directory, and I got errors both ways :shrug:, compiling from the make file I got the error "make: *** No rule to make target 'file:///irrlicht-1.4/source/Irrlicht/Makefile'"

and just running a make on the directory file:///irrlicht-1.4/source/Irrlicht (as suggested by the read me file for linux) gives me the error: "Make: Nothing to be done for 'file:///irrlicht-1.4/source/Irrlicht'"

so looks like I'm going to have to look into crystal space... Heh heh:)

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