Match Moving for C4d 10.5

[ooo]

PFHOE is your friend! I was very surprised by the ease of use and the quality of the tracking. And it's way cheaper than Boujou etc.

http://www.pfhoe.com/

odo

[vid2k2]

Another optiom is Arndt's Photomatch for camera and motion cap.

http://www.vreel-3d.de/plugins/PhotoMatch/links.html

[slouchcorp]

i just got syntheyes this week and i have to say im really impressed great app for the price.

i have PFHOE pro2 aswell and while been a very cool tool you can run into problems is a shot dosent work theres not a lot to do with it. theres more room to refine in syntheyes

Mike

[umblefugly]

Dont forget:
www.photomatch.info (http://www.photomatch.info)

[Simon Wicker]

syntheyes is great, use it a lot in my matte paintings. cheap but fully featured 3d tracker.

however mentioning actors on bluescreen sets alarm bells ringing.

you cannot motion track actors on a bluescreen stage without providing full 3d depth information to the tracking software.

this means that you cannot have just actors on the stage, you must also have some markers that recede in 3d always visible so the tracking software can use the parallax between the markers in 3d space to calibrate where the camera is and how it is moving.

this also means that you can't just put some tape on the backing (those X's you sometimes see in shot breakdowns) because this provides only 2d information not full 3d depth information. you have to have trackable markers both close to, mid-range and far from the camera.

cheers, simon w.

[klueck]

There's also the free and quite handy app called Icarus. I think it was then transformed into PFHoe's tracker.

Mac http://www.peerlessproductions.com/tuts/IcarusTutorials/Icarus.zip
PC http://www.peerlessproductions.com/tuts/IcarusTutorials/IcarusPC.zip

I doubt that you can motion track people with Icarus, PFhoe or Boujou.... PhotoMatch works best for stills.

Cheers, klueck

[Bill-D]

Thanks to every body for their very quick response- very very helpfull.

The best candidate seems to be Syntheyes, can anyone send me a link? I also like Arndt's photomatch but had assumed it was for stills only. I had a look at the PFhoe site and the cost is way beyond my budget.

Simon, thanks very much for your warning about 3d depth markers for the Bluescreen shoot. I am expecting the camera work to be "sedate", as the intention is to experience short scenes as if the spectator is present at the Theatre itself, that is, from a more or less static audience position, and the actors will perform on a precise mark-up of the known stage of the Rose Theatre (its lines are still there on site). BTW I saw a still from your animated model of the Globe Theatre, on fire in Circa 1608, I think it was for "Doctor Who"- it looked brilliant! Could I tempt you to view my "map of all the named Brothels of Bankside 1587" which was a serious project to show the Globe & the Rose in their true context of a wild town "beyond the pail":

http://bill-d.cgsociety.org/gallery/467283/

Any other tuts or tips on this subject would be warmly welcomed as its a new territory for me.
regards to all
Bill D

[Kokosing]

SynthEyes is at ssontech.com

For what you're attempting to do, I think PF Hoe would probably be too simple a tool. As stated above, if the initial track doesn't work, there's not much you can do. Also, if you want to track long shots, you'll probably want the ability to track shots in segments and then join those together. I think that SynthEyes does this.

This is a big thing to attempt at any level. Things to keep in mind:

Matchmoving relies 100% on parallax: look out your car window as you're doing 60, the lightposts next to the road are whizzing by, but the buildings a mile away seem to be almost still. Matchmovers need to see this motion to measure depth. So the camera needs to be moving and you need to have tracking points on several planes of depth. A camera on a tripod with no dolly cannot be matchmoved.

Shots where you see actors touching the floor (or anything CGI) will require more accuracy.

It will be very useful to know specifics about the lens and its measurements (like focal length) during the shoot.

Camera to subject distance is also useful to know. In fact any data you can glean from the set may come in handy.

This book gives an excellent description of the techniques used in matchmoving.
http://www.amazon.com/Matchmoving-Invisible-Art-Camera-Tracking/dp/0782144039

Good luck, and good patience.

W

[ooo]

Here's the link for syntheyes: http://www.ssontech.com/
But I'm afraid it's much more expensive than PFHOE.

odo

[Bill-D]

Odo
I have to admit a possible error about the software pricing as when I checked the PFhoe site I thought that the figure of $3000 was for just the match move software but on re looking I think its for the whole bundle. That being the case, $300 for Syntheyes is within my budget and I will buy it asap. Thanks for the link.

kokosing
Thanks for the tips about parallax and camera data. I have just ordered the book that you recommended from Amazon. I now know that I know less than I thought I did!

Whats making me so nervous is that the 2 lead actors concerned are Ian McKellan(Gandolph) and Judy Dench (M in the James Bond films) both donating their services for free. They must have done so much blue screen work that they'll probably be telling me how to do it.

Thanks again

Bill D

[leed]

Bill

if the majority of motion is from a seated position then there will not be any parallax in the shot, you can film it from a tripod as if you were looking round, there are tutorials on the syntheyes web site that deal with the various areas of motion tracking. There was also a good after efects tutorial I saw about set construction and adding blue screen actors, I will try and dig out the link...


found link http://library.creativecow.net/articles/oneil_bill/3d_world.php


what a job to do though... the best thing to do is plan ....plan....and plan...... fix the storyboard before you get near the shoot.

Syntheyes is a good app, but motion tracking is a whole different world, a completly different way of thinking...I am finding it quite a learning curve....

Good luck

Lee

[Simon Wicker]

BTW I saw a still from your animated model of the Globe Theatre, on fire in Circa 1608, I think it was for "Doctor Who"- it looked brilliant! Could I tempt you to view my "map of all the named Brothels of Bankside 1587" which was a serious project to show the Globe & the Rose in their true context of a wild town "beyond the pail".

hi bill,

very nicely done. the whole area around london bridge is fascinating in that period.

i caught a documentary about british film a couple of months ago and after seeing it i had to rush out and get the 1945 version of henry V because it has a great opening model shot panning over london bridge and the globe theatre that i never knew about. shame the dvd transfer is a bit washed out but the shot itself is remarkable for being done over 60 years ago.

i've been quite lucky in that this is now the third time i've got to visit this period in my work. i still want to find time to make a nice version of the bridge itself - i've always cheated it in the past and just used generic buildings spanning the river instead of trying to copy some of the actual images from the 1600's.

doctor who has been a huge amount of fun, although that shot was my only contribution to that episode, the other views of london were created by another matte painter.

i think my only comment would be to make sure to try everything out before the actual shoot. you really need to get a proper methodology sorted out with regards to placing enough markers in the scene. the easiest time i ever had tracking a shot was when they had left all the lighting stands in the shot and i could track those.

other tips include always making sure you can track at least 3 widely spaced points on the ground plane (so you can easily set up your co-ordinates system in syntheyes) and always using supervised tracking as a few accurate manual tracks will give you much better results than an auto track.

cheers, simon w.

edit:

i should also mention that syntheyes is quite a quirky application to work with so if you have any questions about workflow then just ask here. i'm sure that there are several people (including myself) who can help out.

[Bill-D]

Lee
Thanks for all your advice and the Link to the tut on Creative Cow. When I say audience for Shakespeares Theatre , they were mostly standing like a stadium Rock audience, so that must give me some room to manouvre. Interestingly, the Producers of "Shakespeare in love" have granted us the rights to composit in the crowd scenes from that film as being the best costumed most authentic 16th.C audience available on film. This was in exchange for us allowing Geoffrey Rush who played Henslow (the Theatre owner in the movie) to spend a day on the archeological site to "find" his character and study his building.

Simon
First to say thanks for all your tips about the matchmoving and many others over the years.
secondly, I too have been nursing a desire to model Old London Bridge . I now have some 4 books on it and can't wait for some time to make it. The best reference that I know of is a very accurate 1: 48 physical model in the Docklands branch of the Museum of London, at Canary wharf . Both upstream and downstream are modelled. I've attached a photo.
i will repost if the learning curve cecomes too steep
Bill-D

[Bill-D]

Simon
I forgot to add that I too love Oliviers film of Henry V with its charming model shot (designed by Roger Furse) of Old London Bridge and Bankside and the wonderfull music by William Walton. many years later, I designed a stage show for Olivier at the Old Vic Theatre (also on Bankside).


here's hoping for the matchmoving

PS. There's another pic of the London Bridge model attached

regards

Bill_D

[Simon Wicker]

hi bill,

thanks for the lead on the model of london bridge - seems like a trip to canary wharf will be in order! i have a photocopy from a book of the famous panorama over london from the 1600's (forgotten the artist though) but haven't found much in the way of period pictures for the bridge itself.

this has turned into quite an informative little thread!

cheers, simon w.

[Bill-D]

morning Simon

I have miraculously located 3 of the books that I have on London Bridge. They are all well illustrated and compliment each other and in print. The Museum of London's own bookshop is a good source, or Amazon of course. Here are the details:

1 London Bridge - a Visual History by Peter Jackson. pub: Historical publications ISBN 0 948667 82 6. This is the best illustrated book, and this Peter Jackson was a phenomenal architectural illustrator and historian (see attached Cover picture) HB £15-95

2 London Bridge -2000 years of a River Crossing. by Watson,Brigham & Dyson. Pub: The Museum of London. ISBN 1 901992 18 7. The authorative archeological survey and history with many structural drawings and maps. PB £22-00

3 Old London Bridge - the story of the longest inhabited bridge in Europe, by Patricia Pierce. pub: Review. ISBN 0 7472 3493 0 another well illustrated book with timelines and charts and a rich anecdotal history.( See 2nd Attached pic) PB £7-99.

I hope you get a chance to see these 3 they all great bargains.

Bill

[Bill-D]

Simon
One last question. Do you remember at the time of C4d releases 9 - 9.6, Maxon released a camera, aimed at Digital matte artists, in that it could capture/handle a complete 360º panoramic image, and then display it as an editable, rectanglular image for corrections in PS, returning it back into the model again as an uncompressed 360º matte?

I cannot find it in 10.5 and maxon UK tech support have never heard of it. Any clues? I
am definately not imagining this and its not the "Tilt" cam.

Thanks for any help
Bill

[basilisk]

bear in mind that you can fake a lot of camera moves by shooting your talent with a stationary camera and then placing your footage into a 3D scene and moving your 3D camera. Bear in mind that the human body, without square edges, does not display obvious parallax in the way a geometric object would. The point of contact with the ground is fairly small with a human so you don't get the sense of 3D slippage that you get if you fake a camera move on a larger object. If you want to simulate a camera pan around a person you can put them on a turntable and rotate them.

If I was attempting this project, I would at least duplicate all the shots with a locked down camera, so that you have a simpler fallback option if your real camera moves are not trackable.

Also bear in mind that for close up shots, where the ground is not visible you can sometimes do an AE 2D track, apply to a null, convert the null to 3D then parent a background layer to the null and move it further away which "scales down" the camera move and gives a sense of paralax.

[tcastudios]

Simon
I cannot find it in 10.5 and maxon UK tech support have never heard of it. Any clues? I
am definately not imagining this and its not the "Tilt" cam.

Thanks for any help
Bill

Isn't that the PostEffects ->Cylindrical Lens" ?

Cheers
Lennart

[Bill-D]

Thanks Basilisk

The tip about a second locked off camera seems very sensible, and placing my actors on an image plane in C4d or AE might give me more scope to exploit what i get from the shoot.

and

thanks Lennart for the info, in fact Maxon UK have just got back to me with the same info. now to find some instructions on how to use it. i ll try "Help"


Bill

[Joseppi]

Simon
One last question. Do you remember at the time of C4d releases 9 - 9.6, Maxon released a camera, aimed at Digital matte artists, in that it could capture/handle a complete 360º panoramic image, and then display it as an editable, rectanglular image for corrections in PS, returning it back into the model again as an uncompressed 360º matte?

I cannot find it in 10.5 and maxon UK tech support have never heard of it. Any clues? I
am definately not imagining this and its not the "Tilt" cam.

Thanks for any help
Bill

Bill,

I remember the camera mapping feature, but are you thinking of rendering to QT VR? The "QT VR Panorama" choice I believe rendered the scene to 6 planes on a cube.

Now that you mention it, I do recall a scene setup that had 6 cameras pointing to each direction to create a 360 scene, then that could be assembled into a QT VR scene. The "QT VR camera" seemed to be more a scene setup than a special camera choice from the menu.

I didn't follow the subject to see how to incorporate a QT VR scene back into C4D... It would be nice if it handled it like an environment or background automatically. Worse case, you could just assemble the 6 plate views, mapped onto large scaled planes in your scene, although the corner seems would seem to be a factor.

Maybe just a 180 degree skydome would be sufficient. That would be approachable with Photoshop "spherize" and applying the texture mapped to the inside of a sky sphere in 4D.

Adam mentions this approach here:
http://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/19/855223

This thread talks about either pointing the camera up to a reflective chrome ball in the scene to capture a 360 view, or rendering stills from a rotating camera, then stiching them together to create a panoraminc image, which is mapped onto a sphere.

http://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/19/340677?&archive=T

A few other threads...

http://lists.apple.com/archives/QuickTime-VR/2002/Nov/msg00489.html

http://lists.apple.com/archives/quicktime-users/2002/Sep/msg00040.html

Interested in following your project!

Joe

[basilisk]

Thanks Basilisk
The tip about a second locked off camera seems very sensible, and placing my actors on an image plane in C4d or AE might give me more scope to exploit what i get from the shoot.
Bill

Its the quick and dirty, low budget approach.
My workflow is:
key clip in AE and export low res QT with Alpha (or even as still frame if the character isn't doing much)
place on placard in C4D to aid design of scene and work out camera move.
Render and export camera to AE, with external compositing tag on placard
Place footage at position of placard in AE, fine tune key and colour correct.

If you shoot HD for an SD project you can shoot full length and move in on your footage without it breaking up.

I have used this approach on a few music videos, more recently playing with turntables and walking machines to simulate camera movement when in both camera and talent stay on one spot.

(if you are interested you can see results in the music videos and Virgin Media promo on http://basilisk.co.uk )

[Bill-D]

joseppi
I'm overwhelmed by the amount of support I'm getting on this thread, and your contribution
is just amazing. I will pursue all of your leads. Thanks for your support.

My project that started this thread came from being part of a worldwide group of volunteers who together protested at the planned destruction of this ancient Theatre site with its remains so well preseved. This was where Shakespeare's first plays were performed and where he first acted, where the English language took a giant leap forward, yet, The site was to be destroyed to build another block of offices.

From the start the protest was led by actors and writers, hence the participation of the 2 actors mentioned above and the camera crew. I designed the onsite exhibition in 1999 using just photoshop, then in 2002, learnt C4d by modelling this theatre from the archeologist's hurried site sketches and the architects structural drawings in Vector Works This will be the basis of the scene that the actors shots will be comped into.

More of this anon
Bill D

[Simon Wicker]

hi bill,

thanks for posting the books. even more stuff to look into.

with regards for making a panoramic image that you can edit later in photoshop i think that a cubic image would be best. i have done this in the past using six cameras set to 90 degrees fov arranged at world zero. you can use a stage object to render the six images one after another and because they are not distorted in any way they are easy to touch up in photoshop. once retouched you can just project the images back out using the original six render cameras.

cheers, simon w.

[Joseppi]

Bill,

Wow, C4D for a worthy cause! I hadn't heard the plans were to tear down the theater... amazing and sad. We had a city hall in town that looked like a small Smithsonian Institution building, which was torn down (against protests) to build that lovely poured slab, unfinished concrete style that seemed to be so futuristic in the 60s/70s. You couldn't afford to rebuild the structure with such craftsmanship generally... Like there isn't available office space in London?

There is a little google world link about the Globe:
http://gearthblog.com/blog/archives/2006/06/google_does_sha.html

Also, from this thread, we find Simon Wicker is working on Dr. Who?! Wow, I just started watching the new series on PBS here in the states, from the premiere on, and find they always save the last 10 minutes of the hour showing a "making of" of that episode.

As an aside, last time I was in England and went to Longleat estate, they had a museum of memorabilia of UK film and TV items, including Dr. Who and full size Dalek units. It looks like the exhibition closed in 2003 though...

http://www.drwhoexhibitions.co.uk/longleatgallery.htm
http://www.drwhoexhibitions.co.uk/longleat.htm

We eventually found our way out of the Longleat hedge maze (claimed to be the worlds largest at the time I recall).

http://www.longleat.co.uk/attractions/hedge-maze.html.

Well, wish you the best for this great cause! Aside from just 3D, this forum certainly holds many interesting people and projects, outside of just what's in a manual...

: )

Joe

[rsquires]

Hi Bill

I use Syntheyes exclusively for match moving and stabilising. It is a truly great piece of software with many fantastic features, not least of which is the price. In fact it is staggering that other people can charge the amount they do when Syntheyes ( which is totally production proven ) does what it does at its price point.

For your project I have a few things that might help with pre production. Take a look at the studio setup that I used for a project that was entirely shot on green screen
http://homepage.mac.com/rsquires/synth/studio_setup.jpg%0Dhttp://homepage.mac.com/rsquires/synth/studio_setup.jpg
http://homepage.mac.com/rsquires/synth/studio_setup.jpg

I made the poles with dowl and bases out of blocks of wood I found at the hardware shop. These were drilled so I could take them apart if needed. I then found some abacus's from ikea and used the balls to place on the tops of the poles and half way down. I just put some nails through the dowl so the ones half way sat on them.

It is important to place the poles so as to get the best parrallax as this is how match movers work. You can use flourescent green markers so you can if need be get a key of these to create your matchmoving pass and then you can just key them with the green to cut out your actors. You can do the same with blue but I did have to do some painting out when they crossed the edge of the talent to clean it up. With the length of your shots this might be something to consider.

The 2 movies show some of the shots with before and afters.

http://homepage.mac.com/rsquires/synth/ukfootyshow_fx.mov

http://homepage.mac.com/rsquires/synth/crane_shot01a.mov

As someone else has written you could use a turntable with a locked off camera, for for instance a shot that moves around the actor with the background moving behind. It is simple enough to work out the rotation if you note how the turn table revolves on the day. Or the poor mans way is to get the actor to do this so they shuffle around as they say their lines. This works best if you don't see the lower half of the actor.

Anyway sounds like a fun project and keep us posted when you have more stuff to show

all the best

rich

[Bill-D]

Basilisk

Thanks for your very interesting "Quick & dirty" workflow using C4d PS & AE. These 3 I have and use all the time and using cards feels like I'm back in the Theatre with cut-out scenery. Its a good way to plan this out.

[Bill-D]

Hi Rich
your contribution is very welcome and taught me a lot in a few minutes. Your setup jpeg
accords with what others have said here about 3d markers in shot for parrallax calculation.
thanks very much. Could you give me the rough size of your marker grid?

Given The nature of the scenes to be shot with the actors, I dont think that I could ask them to shuffle round while there doing their big scenes in costume. I think we'll dolly the camera around them. Judy Dench is a bit of a giggler and once you've started her off, she can't stop it. incidentally, her commitment to the cause is so strong that she bought the entire film set version of the Rose Theatre used in "Shakespeare in Love" to have it re-built as a training space for young actors.

Cheers

Bill

[basilisk]

The 2 movies show some of the shots with before and afters.

http://homepage.mac.com/rsquires/synth/ukfootyshow_fx.mov

http://homepage.mac.com/rsquires/synth/crane_shot01a.mov

As someone else has written you could use a turntable with a locked off camera, for for instance a shot that moves around the actor with the background moving behind. It is simple enough to work out the rotation if you note how the turn table revolves on the day. Or the poor mans way is to get the actor to do this so they shuffle around as they say their lines. This works best if you don't see the lower half of the actor.

rich

Nice examples there Rich - I like your sputnik style tracking points. Crane shots are probably the most difficult ones to fake in post, as the foreshortening effect on the human figure is clearly visible. I guess the point about using real camera moves vs faking it is that your planning for the shoot needs to be spot on. In post, you are stuck with the moves you have and you can't try out different ones. If you are faking a move in post, you can move the camera around to see how far you can go before it starts to look wrong, which allows a certain amount of experimentation. If you have a locked down camera, your shoot is much easier and cheaper, plus you can really concentrate on your performances, rather than just making sure your camera move is working. You will fit in more takes and can try more angles using a smaller greenscreen. Spend your money on getting the best HD camera you can. I usually work with a longer lens as far back as possible on a mid height tripod as it seems to produce footage that can be used in the widest variety of settings (ie neither looking up or down on the talent).

As you say Bill, it is bit like theatrical flats. Within a certain range of angles it can look convincing. If you are going for a stylised look, then you can get away with even more.

[rsquires]

Hi Rich
your contribution is very welcome and taught me a lot in a few minutes. Your setup jpeg
accords with what others have said here about 3d markers in shot for parrallax calculation.
thanks very much. Could you give me the rough size of your marker grid?

Given The nature of the scenes to be shot with the actors, I dont think that I could ask them to shuffle round while there doing their big scenes in costume. I think we'll dolly the camera around them. Judy Dench is a bit of a giggler and once you've started her off, she can't stop it. incidentally, her commitment to the cause is so strong that she bought the entire film set version of the Rose Theatre used in "Shakespeare in Love" to have it re-built as a training space for young actors.

Cheers

Bill

Hi Bill

I have done stuff where I didn't really bother with a grid and to be honest this was my first time so I was extra cautious. I used a long tape measure and spaced stuff out at about a metre apart. A useful thing to have is a laser pointer. I mounted it on a tripod and was able to move it across the floor from front to back and up the wall in a sort of straight line. I had made a protractor like attachment to the tripod so I could make the laser pointer point at given angles. So every metre I would set the tripod up and point the laser pointer onto the floor at my first angle and mark it. I then moved it to the next angle further away etc. I was able to get a pretty good looking grid going with this process.

Another thing about the markers is the ones on the floor are ping pong balls sprayed blue. The reason for balls is that they look like dots from whatever angle. So they are much better than sticky tape on the floor.

When you see Judy Dench thank her from me. What a tremendously generous gesture she has made in this very very important effort to keep the rose theatre site intact. It never ceases to amaze me the crassness of humanity, where we lose historically important priceless things, for the sake of a few new apartment blocks . It makes me very cross.

Good on you Bill

all the best

Rich

[Bill-D]

Basilisk

I will try for Long shots as well as close ups so that the spectators can relate the actors scale to the C4d model of the theatre.

I have another feature for this mix, as I wish to use the old theatre trick known as "Peppers Ghost" to reflect the projected movie image onto a large (11ft -3.3m wide)sheet of steel framed, plate glass, angled to 45º, so that the viewer can look through the glass at the excavated lines that markout the ancient stage, but have our "ghosted" actors and C4d theatre floating like holograms, aligned exactly where Shakespeare & Marlowe once stood 400 years before. This ghosting was my starting point for the whole project. I hope this all makes sense.

Thanks for all your advice so far

Bill

[Bill-D]

thanks Rich

I do get emotional about this place as the Site was saved only at the 11th hour, with hundreds of us sleeping on site and in the street as the bulldozers were expected the next day, and we were going to lie in their path. fortunately, The property speculator was "persuaded" in no uncertain manner by his business associates out of destroying everything.
The remains were protected under a roof of massive steelwork and the office block built on top. The irony is that the block when finished, remained empty for 3 years untill an embarrassed UK government who had previously allowed the destruction,filled it with their own beaureucrats.

Thanks again

the response from everybody on the forum has been amazing

[Joseppi]

Basilisk

....I have another feature for this mix, as I wish to use the old theatre trick known as "Peppers Ghost" to reflect the projected movie image onto a large (11ft -3.3m wide)sheet of steel framed, plate glass, angled to 45º, so that the viewer can look through the glass at the excavated lines that markout the ancient stage, but have our "ghosted" actors and C4d theatre floating like holograms, aligned exactly where Shakespeare & Marlowe once stood 400 years before. This ghosting was my starting point for the whole project. I hope this all makes sense.

Thanks for all your advice so far

Bill

Bill, yes, the old reflected trick. When it's a live effect where say the lights are off offscreen, then brought up on an actor in ghost garb off screen so the camera or viewer sees the ghost "materialize." Or like at Disneyland, in the Haunted Mansion, during the ghostly ballroom dance, the dancers are reflecting from a black lined area under the tram, with the reflections visible overlayed on the ballroom setting. That's the live version...

The recorded versions I've seen are where a video screen is the same size as the reflecting glass panel, but since you are talking about an 3-4 m glass, are you planning on rear projecting the image onto a screen in line with the angled glass, or front projecting the imagery onto a large screen which would be visible in the glass?

Just a thought, to maximaze the resolution of the video of the actors, perhaps you could film them while they stand with the camera sideways, and playback with the video projector sideways. If it's of a single actor, it would use more of the screen size, and since you are making the images nearly life-size, the full available rez might help.

A low tech way would be to have a dressed mannequin reflected in the glass, with the light brought up, and the audio playing for the viewer. But video would be be much more engaging... just pull of the technical logistics....

I'm sure with the calibre of the people involved, there would be some great theater lighting and rigging people that could work it all out, as far as the projector placement, etc, to maximize the effect.

Joe

[Trig Fuller]

Hi,

sorry to hijack the thread, but Rsquires, what are the 2 blue boxes on the floor of your studio set up for ? I only ask because we are looking at setting something similar up for an upcoming shoot, using syntheyes, and wonder if they are relevant to the workflow.

(on another note I love seeing the dog handler being removed in the shots)

Trig

[Simon Wicker]

Also, from this thread, we find Simon Wicker is working on Dr. Who?! Wow, I just started watching the new series on PBS here in the states, from the premiere on, and find they always save the last 10 minutes of the hour showing a "making of" of that episode.


i've been outed!

yes, i joined milltv a year ago to work on the third series of doctor who.

if any cinema fans have the dvd's for series 3 then they should check out the matte paintings on the show because everything i did was all c4d based. i was very lucky that the show has proved as popular as it did because i was in the states when it started up and i had a nerve wracking couple of years before i could get back to work on the show!

series 4 is just starting production and it looks like it is going to be a lot of fun again.

cheers, simon w.

[rsquires]

Hi,

sorry to hijack the thread, but Rsquires, what are the 2 blue boxes on the floor of your studio set up for ? I only ask because we are looking at setting something similar up for an upcoming shoot, using syntheyes, and wonder if they are relevant to the workflow.

(on another note I love seeing the dog handler being removed in the shots)

Trig

Hi there

The blue frames on the floor were something I found on the day and just placed roughly in the grid. It helps to have stuff to reference when you do your match move in Syntheyes and these objects help by having right angles you can match to the 3d object temporary items in Syntheyes. A cube with a grid on it would be even better to be honest but I didn't have one lying around. Also it gives a pretty good idea where the floor is.

all the best

richard

[Bill-D]

Hi everybody who offered so much good advice on this project. I said I would post an update when I had some news and here it is.

We have done our first days shoot on the 28th Feb. To my amazement a studio in Soho, London (Molinare) heard about our project and offered their blue screen studio+ lights, cameras and crew for 6 days for free. Another Soho studio has offered us an editing suite with editor also for free. I followed all your tips about marking the bluescreen space and we shot 2 scenes with actors in Costumes, chosen by me and supplied for free from Europes biggest Costumiers: (Angels). Now a casting company has come on board for free, to recruit more actors- amazing!

Our shoot with Ian McKellan (Gandolph), Alan Rickman (Professor Snape in Harry Potter) Joe Fiennes (Shakespeare in Shakespeare in Love) and Judy Dench (M in James Bond) will be on April 2-4 plus 15th. We expect to open the site in September which gives me some time to do the tracking and comping with Synth eyes (in at the deep end!)

here attached below are some renders showing how the the theatre sits in the basement area of the office block that was built over it in 1990, these show the massive girders that dominate the site, but necessary to support the 13 floors above.

I have also added two composite images showing how the pepper's ghost will work, onto my CG talk portfolio. Here are the links:

http://bill-d.cgsociety.org/gallery/605111/
http://bill-d.cgsociety.org/gallery/605100/

cheers
Bill-D

[smurfted]

What a fantastic project, i'm really looking forward to updates..

[Jake-L]

What a fantastic project, i'm really looking forward to updates..

Indeed.

It is also reassuring whever a project reminds me that CGI is, at times, used for something that is actually relevant. ;)

ps Gotta keep my eyes peeled on those Dr Who episodes...

[Bill-D]

Hi smurfted & jake

Thanks for your interest. This is a big week. We shoot Ian Mckellan tomorrow (Thurs) and Alan Rickman (Fri) he tells me that all his funny scenes as the Sherrif of Nottingham with his mother-"Morgan la Fey"in "Robin Hood Prince of Thieves" that were cut from the film are restored in a new DVD of it. Alan's schedule has been a little hampered by delays on the current Harry Potter filming. he is playing the Duke de Guise in Marlowe's play: "The Massacre at Paris". This was the genocide of french protestants in Paris in 1577, just a decade before the play ( Film: La Reine Margot is a full scale recreation)

One of the real pleasures of this project has been improvising the look of the characters with the actors in the fitting room. This is a small hut on the edge of a vast labrynth of costume rails 4 floors high. I worried at first because our historic period is 1577-1605 and all the 1500-1560 costumes are booked out for "The Tudors" series in the US. fortunately, there was still enough to work with. the actors preferred this as our costume and their interpretation of the role developed together in hours. Trivia 2: The term "role" comes from the Elizabethan Theatre where the actors were only given the words of their own parts but none of any one elses, these were on a single roll of paper, hence- roles.

My latest recruit is David Bradley, who plays the horrible janitor/caretaker at Hogwarts in Harry Potter. David is fanatical about Christopher Marlowe's plays and has actually directed productions of the plays on the Rose site itself. the cast wading through the water in wellies. I think he will play Mephistopheles in Dr. Faustus for our video.

Trivia time: Raymond Chandler named his detective - Philip Marlow, after Christopher Marlowe who was also a secret agent, but murdered in 1593. Chandler was a student at Dulwich college in London- the school was founded in 1600 by the lead actor at the Rose -Edward Alleyn. Alleyn devoted his life to charity because when he played Dr Faustus at the Rose, in the scene where Faustus conjures up the devils, there were just 8 actors playing
them, but he counted nine and absolutely believed that the 9th was a the devil himself.In horror he became very pious and devoted all his wealth to charity to save his soul-- spooky!

I've attached a frame grab of our 1st shoot. The actor is Henry Goodman and he is playing the vilainous Barrabas in Marlowe's play: "The Jew of Malta" a revenge story similar to Shakespere's almost contemporary play: "the Merchant of Venice" but much more cruel. I have overlayed the frame grab over the site itself to show how it will look as a Pepper's ghost floating like a Hologram in the space. Alleyn would have stood where
Henry is standing. The 9th devil was seen emerging through the tapestry curtain upstage of him. The Soho studio - Molinare advised us to create a section of real floor for the actors to stand on because of shadow problems with the bluescreen. I enlarged the original C4d material and it was digitally spray printed onto dance floor Vynl and composited into my C4d model of the Theatre. The other image is the cramped studio layout with demensions in feeet and metric

Watch This space

Bill D

[smurfted]

Looking good..

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