HCR Education : Action Figure MASTER COPY

[anubseran]

Great Idea Roberto... How about action figures from www.spawn.com? Considering many users have mudbox and zbrush at their disposal, detailed action figures like the ones by McFarlane toys shouldn't be a problem.

I really liked the stuff at the bandai link ....considering starting to model right away .... :)

[rasmusW]

hey roberto!

sounds like a fun idea.
just one question... -do you mean exact copy's with the "toy-joints" and "neck-cut outs", or just do a "normal" 3d copy of a action character?

-r

[Rod Seffen]

I don't like this idea.
A better idea would be to make master copies of neoclassical figure sculptures.
You'll learn a lot more than by copying action figure junk, though I can see how much 'kewler' it is for a lot of people.

[OneToe]

... were artists can learn modeling ...

an honourable idea. but this wont get far before we do not define what kind of modeling skill we want to teach. if we figure on humanoid objects, we need to decide what kind of pipeline we'd like to simulate. i'd prefer game modelling + sculpting :)
and i think action figures might be ok, if there is enough room for anatomical teaching.

[DaveLEWIS]

Hi,

I realy like this idea alot. Ironicly, I was about to do something similar myself purely as an exercise. I feel that it works better if the Artist has the actual figure infront of them to eye - ball as it were.

Definitly lends itself well to those learning how ro model for the games industry.

So, lets get this one off the ground guys:)



DaveLEWIS

[stage-gr]

I don't like this idea.
A better idea would be to make master copies of neoclassical figure sculptures.
You'll learn a lot more than by copying action figure junk, though I can see how much 'kewler' it is for a lot of people.

hm....are you sure that is a bad thing? The way i see it the "kewler" they find the subject,the more motivated they will be to model it....After all,the purpose of this thread will be to learn how to model....
The sculpture has a huge artistic value which grows bigger when compared to the action figure but it might be a bit too much for someone who learns how to model...maybe way over his current skills...

[Quadart]

I don't like this idea.
A better idea would be to make master copies of neoclassical figure sculptures.
You'll learn a lot more than by copying action figure junk, though I can see how much 'kewler' it is for a lot of people.
A better idea yet, would be you starting your own thread/workshop dealing with neoclassical figure sculpture copies and nothing but neoclassical figure sculpture copies, since this seems to be your cg raison d’être. You could give the interested a blow-by-blow of your technique from a-z with in-depth explanations of the process and classical aesthetics involved. I’m sure you wouldn’t be too modest with your crits either.

[Rod Seffen]

Yes, I began my figure and anatomy studies by copying the real masters of both, and that's where everyone should begin. I've since moved on to scupting real people of all shapes and sizes, to see what I can learn from that.
I doubt I'll ever reach a stage where I'm doing copies of spiderman action toys though, since I've no idea what I could learn from it that I didn't already learn from reality and classical masters.
Even if these miniatures are eventually what you want to do, it's better to become a refined artist in the classical style first, and those real master skills will then transfer to whatever you want to do in the future, and make you good at anything you choose.

Definitly lends itself well to those learning how ro model for the games industry.
That statement makes me shudder.
Implicit in that seemingly innocent statement, is the idea that if you're learning to model for the games industry, then you don't need to bother with the real master skills of a true artist, any old cookie-cutter skills will do, so copying action figures will get you all you need to know.

[RobertoOrtiz]

Ok I think there is a room for a compromise since both sides have valid points.

[fx81]

how about a neoclassical superman except he isnt wearing any underwear and has no cape.
btw, i dont think the purpose of this mini-challenges is to learn modeling. its more of a fun workshop thingy. i think instead of copying something we should actually give creative freedom so that the artist can come up with anything they want. for example, i might make the potato man with neoclassical anatomy.

[RobertoOrtiz]

Keep in mind guys,

what I have in mind is something WAYYYY more informal.


-R

[fx81]

are you saying it will be more informal than POTATO MAN ?

[RobertoOrtiz]

LOL!


Point made...

[Digiegg]

I don't like this idea.
A better idea would be to make master copies of neoclassical figure sculptures.
You'll learn a lot more than by copying action figure junk, though I can see how much 'kewler' it is for a lot of people.

I agree with this. I tried making spawn action figure and it was difficult for me because I tried to copy the action figure itself, when there's always something wrong in the anatomy.
Making a master figure would be way better for learning purposes.

Making "cool" stuff would be a good exercise for those aiming for the gaming industry?
Are you kidding me?

[Rod Seffen]

how about a neoclassical superman except he isnt wearing any underwear and has no cape.
btw, i dont think the purpose of this mini-challenges is to learn modeling. its more of a fun workshop thingy. i think instead of copying something we should actually give creative freedom so that the artist can come up with anything they want. for example, i might make the potato man with neoclassical anatomy.

What's the point in that? There's no point having a workshop at all, if it's just 'do anything you want'
You can already do anything you want any time you want, you don't need CG Talk permission to do so.
Workshops should have parameters and have clear and specific goals in mind, or they are of no value.
The purpose of this would be to learn modeling, since that's exactly what Roberto said in his initial post:
"One idea that I would like to try is to do an open thread were artists can learn modeling."

You're also getting confused between classical and neoclassical styles. Neoclassical anatomy is actually realistic in nature and not at all stylised to the extend of classical sculpture.
Neoclassical refers mainly to the largely french early 18th/late 17th century works.
These works are much less idealised and stylised than the comic style characters or miniatures of today.

[fx81]

What's the point in that? There's no point having a workshop at all, if it's just 'do anything you want'
You can already do anything you want any time you want, you don't need CG Talk permission to do so.
Workshops should have parameters and have clear and specific goals in mind, or they are of no value.
The purpose of this would be to learn modeling, since that's exactly what Roberto said in his initial post:
"One idea that I would like to try is to do an open thread were artists can learn modeling."

You're also getting confused between classical and neoclassical styles. Neoclassical anatomy is actually realistic in nature and not at all stylised to the extend of classical sculpture.
Neoclassical refers mainly to the largely french early 18th/late 17th century works.
These works are much less idealised and stylised than the comic style characters or miniatures of today.


Rod, i was being a little sarcastic if you didnt already knew. ofcourse i too think that one would learn more if they did what you suggest.

but as Roberto already mentioned this is more informal. if you are looking for something seriously anatomy related it would probably fit better in the Artistic Anatomy and Figurative Art forum. (http://forums.cgsociety.org/forumdisplay.php?f=177)

Also, can you show some examples of the neoclassical art you are talking about?

btw, your new website looks fantastic.

[Rod Seffen]

btw, your new website looks fantastic.
Thanks. I thought it was about time I had something a little more professional looking if I want to be a freelancer.

Also, can you show some examples of the neoclassical art you are talking about?
Yes, you can see in these a much more realistic and detailed approach to anatomy and sculpting in general, and a much improved sculpting technique as well.
These are all in the Louvre, and they're a very small part, the Louvre has so many great works that they have to constantly decide which ones to put on display and the rest are put away.
That's why I think it would be an excellent topic, you still have a LOT of choice of which to do a master copy of, they have everything from ancient sculpture to modern stuff.

http://www.pixelwerks.be/pictures/5268_s0001232.001.jpg

http://www.pixelwerks.be/pictures/3612_s0005894.004.jpg

http://www.pixelwerks.be/pictures/5381_s0001522.001.jpg

http://www.pixelwerks.be/pictures/3077_s0002627.001.jpg

http://www.pixelwerks.be/pictures/ME0000033910_3.JPG

http://www.pixelwerks.be/pictures/ME0000033899_3.JPG

[OneToe]

in my opinion neoclassicism is a respectable style, but it's not the universal truth. you might set your goal to achieve there, but this wont guarantee you being the best modeller after achieving it. the value of your modelling depends on your mission, and today the missions differ hugely. anyway, i think there are some basics about topo, proportions and anatomy, that will help you in most of all possible missions. those basics can be easily and effectivly learnd by modelling idealistic figures.

[Rod Seffen]

Neoclassicism is basically realism, and realism obviously is the universal truth.
That's not to say that everything has to be done in a realistic style, but I've yet to see any invented style that's better than reality.
Styles are fads and they come and go, but realism has always, and will always exist, and it will always be the root of all other styles, and therefore it is the most important fundamental step for any artist.
I believe that once you have mastered realism, you can easily go in any direction from there, since the various styles are all quite transparent and elementary in comparison.
What makes a good style is that it's foundation is rock solid knowledge of realism.
I don't see the point in learning styles or artistic fads until you've mastered realism.

[OneToe]

every kind of art is made to stylize under a set of principles. even if neoclassicism is based on the simple idea of just copying the nature, it needs a translation / interpretative base. watch the different attempts of those masters to "fake" hair structures. yes, reality is the universal truth, but art will never achieve reality. it will always be an interpretation. even if neoclassicism is the clearest of all, it's still a style that's interpretes the nature. if we go further this way we come to philosophical discussing realization and cognisance, but i wont go that far.
i dont believe it's possible to "invent" a style apart from any real reference. a human cannot create what he did not see ever before. creative thinking is based on recombination of experiences. (HUME)
... and here we go for our philosophical discussion.

[deatheater4ever]

I am no modeler , but I have always watched the Hardcore Modelling Challenge threads with great intrest.And this topic is completely unrelated to Action Figure MASTER COPY

How about having an idea where instead of modeling people with near perfect physiques we could model drformed people, fat people , extremely skinny people , tribal people like those from Papua new guinea with wierd piercings , people shown on Ripley's Believe It or Not who have done extreme things with thier skin like a thousand body piercings .......u know that kind of stuff .
Just an idea i thought would share.

[Rod Seffen]

Yes, I'm already doing that, and it's great exercise. My last two sculpts were an obese woman and a skinny old chinese man, both copied from real people, which is the best reference. The real master you should copy from is nature itself, no artist can match up to that.
When you copy nature you are forced to interpret it in some way in order to reconstruct it, and that becomes your 'style'.

[fx81]

copying from realism is good but it is also possible to study realism and practice stylization at the same time. i can tell you from personal experience that studying both at same time can enhance your skill and speed than just learning one.
stylization is basically exaggerated realism for me. when you look at a incredibles cartoon character you will notice that their characters have all the basic anatomical proportions nailed now. in addition their characters have rhythm and ballance.
practicing stylized character you can learn that rhythm and ballance and actually helps make your realistic models even more realistic.

[Intervain]

I have to say I`m not a fan of the craptastic plastic action figures with articulated joints... hidious... but I do like the Gentle Giants or Sideshow style figurines and busts - having those as a goal would be a cool idea... the ones showed as an example are terrible though and I`d agree with Rod that copying them won`t be a learning experience - it may be fun if someone likes the look of these things :)

[RobertoOrtiz]

One thing I want to reiterate...

THIS IS NOT THE NEXT TOPIC...
We have TWO tradional sculpting challenges in the pipeline.


Colossus
Treasures of the Louvre
This idea is something else..

One thing I want to bring with this thread is a bit of stylization.
And a gateway for artists who want to play in a more stylized manner.
Some examples:

http://www.starstore.com/acatalog/boba-fett-maquette-l.jpg (http://www.starstore.com/acatalog/boba-fett-maquette-l.jpg)
http://www.starstore.com/acatalog/sw-animated-han-solo.jpg (http://www.starstore.com/acatalog/sw-animated-han-solo.jpg)
http://www.starstore.com/acatalog/Yoda-Kybuck-Maquette.jpg (http://www.starstore.com/acatalog/Yoda-Kybuck-Maquette.jpg)
https://www.gentlegiantltd.com/catalog/product/detail/165 (https://www.gentlegiantltd.com/catalog/product/detail/165)
The idea is more of having fun...Think of it as a gateway to the more competitive challenges.
and you know what, you guys just gave me an idea.

-R

[lmancg]

I collect action figures. I'd do it just for the fun of it. Look at my avatar, I had fun making it. OR model action figures out of people or things that don't already have action figures. Like classical or neo-classical sculptures in action figure form, complete with joints. I dunno, just an idea to make it fun. :)

[Intervain]

One thing I want to reiterate...

THIS IS NOT THE NEXT TOPIC...
We have TWO tradional sculpting challenges in the pipeline.




Colossus
Treasures of the Louvre
This idea is something else..

One thing I want to bring with this thread is a bit of stylization.
And a gateway for artists who want to play in a more stylized manner.
Some examples:

http://www.starstore.com/acatalog/boba-fett-maquette-l.jpg (http://www.starstore.com/acatalog/boba-fett-maquette-l.jpg)
http://www.starstore.com/acatalog/sw-animated-han-solo.jpg (http://www.starstore.com/acatalog/sw-animated-han-solo.jpg)
http://www.starstore.com/acatalog/Yoda-Kybuck-Maquette.jpg (http://www.starstore.com/acatalog/Yoda-Kybuck-Maquette.jpg)
https://www.gentlegiantltd.com/catalog/product/detail/165 (https://www.gentlegiantltd.com/catalog/product/detail/165)
The idea is more of having fun...Think of it as a gateway to the more competitive challenges.
and you know what, you guys just gave me an idea.

-R



hehe I like those... especially the gentle giant animated versions... like I`ve said I agree it would be more fun than a learning experience ... :)

[WyattHarris]

Hey guys I would like to try something different to expand our user base.
One thing we pride ourselves in the forum is that we provide a creative
outlet from ALL artists of all levels.


Some of you are missing Roberto's original point. Expand the user base and all artists. There are probably some folk out there who enjoy the HMC and would like to get involved but are intimidated by the quality that is usually output from the challenges so they don't enter. This would be a way for someone to make a model and participate in the HMC.

That gentle giant site is great. Have to check further.

If you want to try something more realisitc than attempt one of these. McFarlane Military Series (http://www.toysrus.ca/search/index.jsp?categoryId=2858751&cp=2567284.2858751&f=PAD%2FBrand+Name+Secondary%2FMcFarlane&fbc=1&fbn=Brand+Name+Secondary%7CMcFarlane)

This also gives me an excuse for making a certain purchase I've been putting off... for the kids of course. :D

Cobra (http://www.parrygamepreserve.com/images/giJoe/25th/giJoe25thCobra5PackOne2_M.jpg)
Joe (http://www.parrygamepreserve.com/images/giJoe/25th/giJoe25thJoe5PackOne2_M.jpg)

[kingpin35]

Some of you are missing Roberto's original point. Expand the user base and all artists. There are probably some folk out there who enjoy the HMC and would like to get involved but are intimidated by the quality that is usually output from the challenges so they don't enter. This would be a way for someone to make a model and participate in the HMC.


you are so right with that, i've been looking at these challenges for months now and the quality of the modelling is fantastic. I've thought about entering but i know my models would be no where near that standard hence i dont enter:sad:

i think this would be a great idea especially if it was to start fairly easy and get harder with each challenge.

well i hope this certainly happens anyway:thumbsup:

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