CGTalk - Tetragrammaton Cleric John Preston

Stahlberg

04-17-2003, 09:15 AM

Very nice! I'd like to see a wireframe, if this is for animation, but the modeling is superb so far. Even better than your Merlin head.
Maybe go for one more level of detail, sharpening up the eyelids and 'wiggling' the wrinkles etc, but that can be done with a good bumpmap too. The jaw looks a bit funny right where it joins the ear-lobe, otherwise it's very cool so far.

animalunae

04-17-2003, 09:18 AM

Well thanx, coming from you, this is a real compliment, I'll see where I can add detail and how I can adjust the ears

http://home.pi.be/~derbyq/WIP/Cleric/Cleric06.jpg
http://home.pi.be/~derbyq/WIP/Cleric/Cleric07.jpg

animalunae

04-17-2003, 09:25 AM

And here's some wires

Base mesh 01 (http://home.pi.be/~derbyq/WIP/Cleric/Wire01.jpg)
Base mesh 02 (http://home.pi.be/~derbyq/WIP/Cleric/Wire02.jpg)
Base mesh 03 (http://home.pi.be/~derbyq/WIP/Cleric/Wire03.jpg)
Base mesh 04 (http://home.pi.be/~derbyq/WIP/Cleric/Wire04.jpg)
Base mesh 05 (http://home.pi.be/~derbyq/WIP/Cleric/Wire05.jpg)

I've had the remark before that the wire is too heavy, though I don't think I can reduce polycount without erazing detail

animalunae

05-21-2003, 03:49 PM

One reply so far... wow. And from who!?!

Anyway here's a little update, basic texture, rdy for detail, I'll check Stahlberg's skin shading guides for better shading there. This is what I got so far.

http://home.pi.be/~wimcoene/Cleric10.jpg

http://home.pi.be/~wimcoene/Cleric11.jpg

animalunae

05-22-2003, 05:33 PM

Updated some more. Steven gave me some good pointers, here's what I got. Shading needs a lot of work though...

http://home.pi.be/~derbyq/WIP/Cleric/Cleric13.jpg

raz-0

05-22-2003, 06:00 PM

looks a lot more like peter weller than christian bale to me.

animalunae

05-22-2003, 06:04 PM

Everyone looks like Peter Weller with a helmet and mechanics in the head... thanx for the usefull post btw

hypercube

05-22-2003, 06:21 PM

Looking great, the latest mods are really starting to sell it, it's looking a lot like him. He and peter weller do have a lot of the same strange facial structures, but I think it's definitely Bale right now. :)

Looks like you've still got some exaggeration going on though, like pushing the 'pointiness' of his face, it seems that his jaw goes in a straight line from his chin to his ear instead of filling out..eyes may be a little far apart..the top of his head is too low and his forehead could be flatter as well, I think. The stance and forms in his neck are a bit weird, but those are just rough so far, right?

I'm sure you've got plenty of reference, this one I found just illustrates the jaw thing I'm talking about:
http://www.adorocinema.com/personalidades/atores/christian-bale/christian-bale04.jpg

Keep up the good work, look forward to seeing him in full outfit doing some gun-kata :D

animalunae

05-22-2003, 06:41 PM

Ah great, now there's a post, thank you, I'll definatelly try to correct those errors!

JonasNoell

05-22-2003, 07:21 PM

There is something about the proportions of the head that is hurting my eye. Can't really point my finger exactly onto it, but I think there is something wrong with the forehead. Beside that it's a very well and nicely done piece of work!

animalunae

05-24-2003, 01:33 PM

I've been trying to create a better shading. I've changes the jaws a bit but I feel it's time for me to start shading and texturing, because I will never get the same shape as the real guy's head and I really want to learn more then just modeling (hehe).

I think this shading is better then the previous one

http://home.pi.be/~derbyq/WIP/Cleric/Cleric16.jpg

animalunae

05-29-2003, 01:16 PM

After creating a more realistic rendering setup, I tried to make the corrections you all mentioned, any comments?

http://home.pi.be/~derbyq/WIP/Cleric/Cleric21.jpg

animalunae

05-29-2003, 01:19 PM

Originally posted by hypercube
... look forward to seeing him in full outfit doing some gun-kata :D

Me too!

animalunae

06-05-2003, 07:40 PM

Another update, I did some tweaking, hope it has improved... cause you never know

http://home.pi.be/~derbyq/WIP/Cleric/Cleric39.jpg

http://home.pi.be/~derbyq/WIP/Cleric/Cleric40.jpg

LordDubu

06-05-2003, 09:43 PM

Would I be guilty of sense offense if I said I love this concept? Seriously though, it's amazing how much difference hair makes. As I was watching this, I was thinking... it kinda looks like Christian Bale, but not really...

Then you add hair and eyebrows... and suddenly it looks like Bale... yeah so in short, hair makes a huge difference.

Looking good, keep it up.

animalunae

06-05-2003, 09:45 PM

Hey thanx a lot, appreciate it!

animalunae

06-06-2003, 10:43 AM

A little update

http://home.pi.be/~derbyq/WIP/Cleric/Cleric41.jpg

Agent D

06-06-2003, 11:05 AM

Looks great so far. I just saw the movie recently, and I thought it was very good.

The head is really starting to look like him. Can't wait for the rest. Are you going to make his coat and pistols, etc?

animalunae

06-06-2003, 11:06 AM

Hell yeah, can't wait to finally get the head to match his personallity so I can start the coat and the guns etc. Thanx for the comment

Stahlberg

06-06-2003, 12:02 PM

Haven't seen Equilibrum yet, heard it was very low-budget but most people seemed to like it. See if I can catch the DVD here.

Yes this is beginning to look like Bale, but the model is a bit too rounded, most noticeable on the prominent bits like cheeks/cheekbones, chin, etc. Probably too much work to try to fix it with a bump-map or displacement map, so a bit more modeling would be the way. Now it's like the model's been filed and sanded, a common look that all NURBS and Subdivided CG models have, until sufficient detail is created... Basically just one more level of detail, some angularity instead of smooth curves, so to speak.

It's cool how much difference the hair made, generally looking quite groovy now.

animalunae

06-06-2003, 12:22 PM

I don't really see your remarks, but I'm guessing I need to make the face "older". Is this an improvement?

http://home.pi.be/~derbyq/WIP/Cleric/Cleric42.jpg

animalunae

06-06-2003, 06:49 PM

More tweaking, I think I'm going the right direction with this. I think it looks more like him now.

http://home.pi.be/~derbyq/WIP/Cleric/Cleric43.jpg

Stahlberg

06-07-2003, 05:31 AM

That's something like what I meant, looking even better now. Not older necessarily but 'craggier' and more 'defined', it's hard to explain, see attached image, based on the Bale photo above.

On the right, what we have at the early stages of modeling. On the left, what we have to strive towards (at least for realistic modeling, and I think to some extent also for any kind of modeling) . One level-of-detail higher. Jump your eyes from one to the other repeatedly, and you should see what I mean. Squinting and looking at it from further away, and turning the image upside down, also helps. (I retouched it to get rid of skin grain and wrinkles, which is one level-of-detail higher still, but as we all know should be done with bump maps not modeling.)

Underneath, a made-up partial cross-section of the surface, to illustrate further.

http://www.androidblues.com/christianbale.jpg

edit: oh, and I think you're at the stage now when you can start using 'single photo match-n-tweak' (trademark) :) - you may be doing it already but if not - what I mean is picking a photo, then trying to get a rendering as close as possible with lighting and camera angle , then focusing on that one particular comparison for an extended period, tweaking to match modeling, texture and shading. (I usually do all those at the same time, I find it hard to separate one from the other.) Later perhaps repeating the same thing with a different photo.

Why does this work so well? Because nothing - not measurements, not blueprints, not cross-sections, not 3d scans - tells you the shape of an object more efficiently and precisely than highlights - shadows are also very helpful, but highlights take first price. Builders of ships, cars and planes have known this for a very long time, they use highlights or reflections to instantly show up any imperfections in a critical surface.

animalunae

06-07-2003, 02:25 PM

Oh, ok, great thanx! And wow on the image, GREAT paintjob as usual. Now, I'll be trying to use that method, I'm using shots from the movie to match the geometry, but I never really matched lighting before... pretty obvious it seems now!
Thank you for your comment!

animalunae

06-09-2003, 09:06 PM

A quick update. The sleeve is still to be detailed ofcourse.Don't mind the shading or lighting, it's just there for previewing.

http://home.pi.be/~derbyq/WIP/Cleric/Cleric49.jpg

animalunae

06-16-2003, 07:07 PM

Updated the face, applied Stahlberg's technique a bit and it worked I think, I should use it some more to get it right I think

http://home.pi.be/~derbyq/WIP/Cleric/Cleric55.jpg

Agent D

06-16-2003, 09:35 PM

I think the lastest update looks a lot better - the geometry as well as the skin. Keep it up! :buttrock:

d8ed

06-17-2003, 12:30 AM

the skin is still a little too pink. needs more green.

dimitrios_c

06-17-2003, 05:11 AM

Looking good, I know it's a WIP but let's see some bump mapping on the face, a hint of a five oclock shadow, and some eyelashes... :applause:

animalunae

06-17-2003, 08:55 AM

Although I didn't really do the shading yet, I DID create a bump map, I just need to add some more detail. One question though: what detail should be visible in a render such as the one above?

Dimitrios: what do you mean by a 5oclock shadow? Eyelashes on the way...

Thanks for the comments all.

Stahlberg

06-19-2003, 12:37 PM

He means the faint stubble some dark haired guys can get in the evening (if they shave in the morning).

I'd work some more on the collar and the points of those lapels or whatever it's called, they're a bit regular now. Maybe work some more on be the jawline too, more 'bumpy' and less smooth. Otherwise looking better and better.

animalunae

06-19-2003, 12:48 PM

Update: I removed some buttons... I noticed I had way too many...

http://home.pi.be/~derbyq/WIP/Cleric/Cleric59.jpg

I'm not sure about the sleeves though, I've been working towards rigging, so I might need to improve those...

I'll check out those details btw. Thanx Steven

ShortFuseNZ

06-19-2003, 01:17 PM

Man your a genious. Great work.

I love Equilibrium great movie.

you gonna make some wicked desktop images :)

animalunae

06-19-2003, 04:57 PM

Thanx a lot! I'll see what I can do, till then I've created these pair of gloves. Texturing is a bit basic, I wanted to add detail such as thread and seams, but I might do that when I need it.

http://home.pi.be/~derbyq/WIP/Cleric/Cleric62.jpg

http://home.pi.be/~derbyq/WIP/Cleric/Cleric61.jpg

TES

06-19-2003, 05:27 PM

good work but i think,that it needs more work on his face texture....equilibrium rocxx!!

leigh

06-19-2003, 07:45 PM

The main problems with your skin is that it is firstly too plastic looking, and secondly, too plain.
Human skin doesn't have such a plain appearance. Perhaps, as has been suggested, adding some nine o'clock shadow to it will bring more realism into it.
At any rate, a mans skin is always rough in his beard areas, so you should really have your bump map show this :)

You really need to develop more of an attention to detail. If you look at a human face, you'll see why your skin looks wrong. For instance, look at the areas around the eyes. Your texture has the same basic skin colour all around his eyes and eyelids. A real persons skin does not look like that. The skin around ones eyes is usually thinner and slightly darker. The actual grain of the skin tends to be slightly larger (but not rougher) below the eyes as well. Also, the eyelids should appear slightly wet, and also redder (generally).

Overall the skin looks far too smooth, and the specularity is far too constant, which is why it is looking like plastic. Also, your diffusion seems to be a little too high, which is making the skin look far too light.

Your skin also appears to have no depth. I'm not sure what app you're using (don't know if you've mentioned it, I haven't had a chance to read the entire thread yet), but you might want to add some SSS, or fake an SSS effect to give it a sense of depth. That way, the skin will appear to have more tangibility and life :)

animalunae

06-19-2003, 07:50 PM

Wow, ok that's gonna be a lot of studying to get that all right, I'm very new to texturing and shading so I knew I was going to tweak a lot... Thanx a LOT anyway for posting!

Btw Love your work!

leigh

06-19-2003, 07:57 PM

Glad to be of help :) Sorry I didn't reply earlier - I forgot to check my messages here on CG Talk :blush:

animalunae

06-19-2003, 07:59 PM

No problem at all, I just checked out your work at your website... wow, I'll be texturing a bit now! And you've got ONE more buyer for your book, that's for sure!!!!

animalunae

06-20-2003, 01:05 AM

I've tried resetting the shader to a start point from which I can try to get a better SSS effect. I'll be redoing the eyeshader... thank god, and I will add serious detail to the eyes

http://home.pi.be/~derbyq/WIP/Cleric/Cleric64.jpg

Stahlberg

06-20-2003, 02:09 AM

I don't understand what you mean about not being sure about the sleeves, I kinda thought they were the best part so far (and the gloves!), that kind of zig-zag accordion folding is hard to do, care to show a wire frame of the sleeves?

animalunae

06-20-2003, 07:45 AM

Ah that's good, thanks
I'm not particullary proud of the wire, there's still mistakes to be corrected, but I created the sleeves and the gloves, both in just an hour, because I really haven't much time these days...

This is a proxy polygon tool I used btw, Subdiv causes too much problems, maybe when I get my new system in a few days I can try to explore that as a modeling means...

http://home.pi.be/~derbyq/WIP/Cleric/Wire11.jpg

http://home.pi.be/~derbyq/WIP/Cleric/Wire12.jpg

http://home.pi.be/~derbyq/WIP/Cleric/Cleric65.jpg

mattmos

06-21-2003, 12:18 AM

Looks really good, I'm in love with your gloves (if that doesn't sound too strange) and the sleeves rock. I'll be using that trick for sure. I think the face would really benefit from a sub-surface scatter shader, particularly the ears which look quite strange when completely opaque.

Let's see some more!

animalunae

06-21-2003, 12:20 AM

Thank you, I'm trying to get the sss working but I'll need more time to make it work, maybe in a few days

animalunae

06-23-2003, 03:25 PM

Before I start tweaking, does anyone know of a sss plugin for maya? I saw some amazing work in Lightwave and that was done using a plugin or renderer (I don't know LW...btw).

animalunae

06-26-2003, 11:53 PM

I finally did some rigging... Still need to get the sss working though... at least I've got the newbie copper zombie look Stahlberg talks about in his tutorial.

I just did the rigging of the neck and dit some basic blendshapes, which would make him able to talk a bit, since there isn't much other emotion on his face.

http://home.pi.be/~derbyq/WIP/Cleric/Cleric69a.jpg
http://home.pi.be/~derbyq/WIP/Cleric/Cleric69b.jpg

Swoop

06-27-2003, 11:11 AM

Damm!
That looks awsome!
After you finish you gotta make a full length tutorial on how to make him ;)

Keep up the good work, and cant wait to see the finished model :D :D

Planning on doing a small animation with him ?

animalunae

06-27-2003, 11:17 AM

Thanks a lot Swoop, I've started this project as a study and as an element for my portfolio, since my animation and render skills need polishing, I will create a few test animations, such as walkcycles and voice lines, maybe even a little fight sequence, I'm not sure yet.

blackwulf360

06-27-2003, 01:29 PM

AWW Sh$t!!:buttrock: To do such a fine model justice you GOTTA do a some gun kata animation!

ShortFuseNZ

06-27-2003, 02:13 PM

Originally posted by blackwulf360
AWW Sh$t!!:buttrock: To do such a fine model justice you GOTTA do a some gun kata animation!

Yeah that'd be extremly cool, or how bout a couple poses for desktop images :).

sad

06-27-2003, 03:35 PM

i've ssen the movie yesterday and it rocks!
you caught his face very good though it seems a bit heart shaped.:wavey:

The-3D-Data-Labs-Guy

06-27-2003, 05:56 PM

Nice work! Keep it up.

animalunae

06-27-2003, 08:57 PM

Thanks a lot!

Sad: I love your work, beautifully wicked!

Kelly.Schubert

06-27-2003, 09:05 PM

my 2 cents:
I think the resemblance is pretty good. If you are going for photorealistic, then the suggestions already posted on here are definately the ones to follow. If you are going for a bit of a cartoony type feel, then do your thing. Either way, I like the resemblence, and I think anyone that has seen the movie, could tell who you are working on.

blastzone

06-27-2003, 10:04 PM

lol i could do him better lol really really quickly hehehehe just 2 halo lamps in a black void there u go the scene right at the beginning lol where he jumps onto the door and slides into the room heheheh vuala heh na man really good something about his skin texture is bugging me its so nearly there i cant place it but it just seeems a little off

sad

06-27-2003, 11:26 PM

i'm glad that you like my work, thanks a lot!

animalunae

06-27-2003, 11:32 PM

Kelly.Schubert: I want to go realistic, but I know I won't get that far in this project, maybe with my next character I will get realisme a bit more... But ones shading has been done, it should look more real...

blastzone: I know, I've got that same feeling, I think it's the texture around the eyes, it's too light... I'll review texturing one of these days, so maybe that too will improve.

Thanks for the comments

PureFire

06-28-2003, 04:35 AM

Kickass...I watched equilibrium last week and I must say your model is spot on!!:buttrock: :buttrock: :buttrock:

animalunae

06-30-2003, 12:32 AM

Excellent, cause after a few weeks modeling, you don't even see the problem in the mesh... cause you're used to it, see...

Anyway, I've been doing a lot of rigging, my next problem was the coat... was it going to be keyframed, completely simulated...? I didn't want to do the entire coat in Keyframe animation because of the lower part... and didn't want to do it completely cloth...because of the upper part and the buttons and the wrinkles... it'd just get too complicated. So I've been thinking about a good solution and with some help I came to a solution: The upper part will be keyframed with the skeleton and the lower part is deformed by a solved cloth surface. The simulation still has a little interpenetration and the walkcycle is bad! Really, I did this walkcycle for the legs only in a few minutes, to get some sort of simulation on the coat. It's really late over here and I didn't match the begin and end of the loop btw:

Watch the simulation here...DivX 5.0.3 Codec (http://home.pi.be/~derbyq/WIP/Cleric/Coat_Sim_PB.avi)

http://home.pi.be/~derbyq/WIP/Cleric/Cleric70.jpg

animalunae

06-30-2003, 11:20 AM

I did a little render to test the quality of the simulation and I'm happy with it. The interpenetration is gone now too...

Watch the rendered avi here, 120KB, DivX 5.0 (http://home.pi.be/~derbyq/WIP/Cleric/CoatSim_R.avi)

You'll have to crank up the brightness, because this time I used black...

Kuro Hime

07-03-2003, 09:32 PM

Love your work!!!

How about modeling some guns?
Cause there's no John preston without Gun Kata...:drool:

animalunae

07-04-2003, 09:30 PM

I'll be modeling the guns within the next few days, till then a little shading attempt:

http://home.pi.be/~derbyq/WIP/Cleric/Cleric71.jpg

animalunae

07-04-2003, 10:01 PM

Little update, highlights and texturing around the eyes. I will be doing the eyelashes in the morning.

http://home.pi.be/~derbyq/WIP/Cleric/Cleric72.jpg

Kuro Hime

07-04-2003, 10:15 PM

He looks a lot more dangerous now :D ...I'm starting to get a bit worried,hehe,wouldn't want to mess with your cleric ...
Looking forward to see LOTS more of him (no pressure hehe :wip: )

animalunae

07-05-2003, 04:13 PM

Now for the guns, shading sucks and the slide doesn't work, but we've got the guns

http://home.pi.be/~derbyq/WIP/Cleric/Cleric73.jpg
http://home.pi.be/~derbyq/WIP/Cleric/Cleric74.jpg

animalunae

07-06-2003, 11:55 AM

I'm going to go back to mesh after this... I need to tweak more, especially the shape of the mouth, if I could only get Christian Bale to send me some good reference material hehe... Here's a render... colour effects in Photoshop... Maybe now I'll continue Camelot... Hmm

Cleric Wallpaper Green (http://home.pi.be/~derbyq/WIP/Cleric/WallPaper03b.jpg)

animalunae

07-10-2003, 12:05 PM

I hated the render so much, I decided to go back to formula, and I did, after I remodeled my Merlin Character, I tweaked for about 12 hours on the mouth alone... plus some more tweaking in the face... the result...

http://home.pi.be/~derbyq/WIP/Cleric/Cleric75.jpg

animalunae

07-10-2003, 05:43 PM

I added a link to the most recent render in the first post.

animalunae

07-10-2003, 06:53 PM

Another render, if hypercube ever reads this post: I placed the eyes a little closer together...

http://home.pi.be/~derbyq/WIP/Cleric/Cleric77.jpg

The focal Length of the camera was increased, hence the wider looking face... I used reference that was shot in the same way...

animalunae

11-18-2003, 08:10 PM

Here's a little texture update, Christian Bale's skin is darker around the eyes...

I also tried creating a better shader with the great advice of Mr. Steven Stahlberg.

http://home.pi.be/~derbyq/WIP/Cleric/Cleric80.jpg

Spirit2029

11-18-2003, 09:12 PM

well the latest test is looking good...but..its far far too clean and smooth.. Try adding in skin pores..some more color around the eyes..add a bit of brown..or grey on the chin and jaw line for a 5 0'clock shadow look..also it needs a bump map and some specular..its almost looking like a lambert right now..

The model looks like christian bale to the tee...which is impressive..just get the textures up to par..and you;ll have a nice model

Spiri2029

animalunae

11-19-2003, 12:08 AM

Thank you for the comment, you are indeed right 100%, I need to add those maps and some more tweaking on the texure. I really like the fact that you think it looks like him! Can't tell the resemblances anymore cause I've been working on this one for a few months now.

Btw, it IS a lambert, I need to add highlight layers!

iwishforroot

11-19-2003, 02:23 AM

where did u get ref pics for the guns?

TiSOy

11-19-2003, 03:24 AM

thats great,,,,,,its like looking at a duplicate picture

animalunae

11-19-2003, 07:45 AM

Thanks TiSOy

I got the reference from the movie Equilibrium, when I last watched it yesterday I noticed the T shapped in the front of the sidearm, I guess I'll need to add some more modifications to that one too... I got the barrel from the "shot' where Cleric Brandt fires at Mary O'Bryan and Cleric Preston stops him and partially from the Nether attack on the guards which he ends off with this camai showing the weapons... Then there's a serious close up on the gun, but not the handle, I got that from the shot where Preston takes on the 6 guards inside the warehouse.

Thank you for the comments