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Dragoonmind
11-19-2007, 08:02 PM
So here is my little Dragon. Well i have to say that i am a bit proud of it. I modelt in my opinion incredible long on it.
And im just 20% finished. Cuz i want to make a good uvmap and make a good displacement/normalmap and texture for the Dragon. To make the last 2 things i decided to use zbrush. I have already a okay experiance with the app.

Well. Because i did some moding work befor and because i would like to work for a Games company i decided to pay attention to the poly count.
I looked on the edgeflow too, because in a game a dragon should move. Think it would be more scary if the beast looks realistik.

The Dragon has about 7800 Faces about 15k tris. None Ngones and some few tris in nonedeformed areas like tooths and claws.

At the moment i do a little tweaking and the uvmap.

The rendering below is not the aktual version but the screenshots under it are.
http://www.dragoonmind.dk/data/blackstar/squall/Dragon.jpg
http://www.dragoonmind.dk/data/blackstar/squall/Drag3.JPG
http://www.dragoonmind.dk/data/blackstar/squall/Drag1.JPG
http://www.dragoonmind.dk/data/blackstar/squall/Drag2.JPG

Gaboon
11-19-2007, 08:48 PM
The design is not bad, a bit stylized to be scary I think, but itís fine.



Your mesh flow is awful. Crazy edge flow and a massive amount of unnecessary geometry.

The wings mainly. You could cut down the geometry by half by using an alpha channel on the texture along the edge of the wings where you have all the frayed skin. The knuckles on the wings are not necessary as you would have them in the normal map.



Your questions when approaching the low poly should be- "What is going to show up in the silhouette?" and "Where will I need geometry for deformation when it animates?"

All other detail should be in the normal map.



The claws, the feet fins, the teeth and the wings should be majorly optimized. Those polys would be much better spent on the head, neck, and all the joints.



If this dragon will have any facial expression, you should put more edge loops around the mouth.

Dragoonmind
11-19-2007, 10:18 PM
Thanks for you critique. I love people who are direkt.

You mentioned the awful edgeflow and the unnacessary geometry on the wings.
Well i knew the problems before but i havent thought much more about it.
Thanks to you, i will get in to war with these wings to rescue them.
Hopefully they will be better than before.
Same with the knuckels. I thinked about to make them in zbrush. But then it was to late :-D


I have one or two questions about the wings. The skin between the bones of the wings is at the moment box-like. I mean there is space in the skin. I hope you understand. I have that feeling that it is wrong. Because i think the 2 sides of the skin will interfere in animation.
And i dont know how i should do the uvmap on the box version. So i belive that the box-skin is the wrong way to do it. But when i think about to do it a single polyface, i dont know how it reakt with "Backface curling".

The Areas you mentiond i should optimized and the questin that i should ask myself helped and will help me in the future much. Im sure of that.
Thanks again :-)


Hope more critique is followed

Dragoonmind
11-28-2007, 06:56 PM
So well i have much to learn and have because of my studies not much time.
Well i heard of the most of the things Gaboon said. Still trying to get better edge flow into my little dragon.

And well Gaboon was right. The Polycount was nearly halved. Now the Dragon has only 8842 Tris.

http://www.dragoonmind.dk/data/blackstar/squall/Better_edgeflow.JPG

Gaboon
11-28-2007, 07:48 PM
Much, much better. Big improvement. I would add a few more cuts to the knees and ankles so they deform correctly in animation. You have nice edge flow down the front legs and then it turns into crazyness right above the feet.

utchamp
12-01-2007, 07:30 PM
Looking very nice!

the only things that i have to crit on are the design of the dragon.

- the face needs to be longer, just a little bit, but i think it would make him look much better

- the base of the wings look too solid, they look like they aren't intended to move, like hes a
statue... maybe thin the base [where it connects to the body] down a bit.

- since you cut your poly count in half... :D ... and since the back legs have cool fins on
them, put some fins on the front legs as well, it would look much more interesting :)


great work.! i cant wait to see the textures

Dragoonmind
12-03-2007, 10:12 AM
at> Gaboon:

I worked on the edgeflow on the feets. I think now its much better.
I added some more edgerings around the knees and ankle also. Was a bit hard on the ankle of the rear feet, cause i had to redo the edgeflow to match better.


at> UTChamp

Thanks for your critique too. I have not so much critique at the moment. So im glad for every i can get. I belive you have right with the "to solid" wings. I will try to fix this.

And with the fin on the forefeet i was not sure what i should do. I thought to put some extra bones that comes out of the elbow or perhaps leave it clean. But i think your idea with the fins could be very good. But im not sure with that. I think i have to try your idea out.


Sorry for the delay of pictures of my work. They will follow today or tomorrow. But i have not to much time.

But im still working on a cleaner better Mesh.
Still working on the edgeflow to get a better sillhouette and for better animation.
Now at 8500tris


Edit: I just tried to scale the buttom of the wing (where it meets the body) down. But the biologe and artist in me told me that this is more wrong. I modeled it that way because it should have very big muscles to move the Wing. And when I scale that area down, i also scale the Muscles down.

Think of your shoulder. Your shoulder is bigger than your arm. But you dont need your shoulders to carry you. The wingmuscles of a dragon in contrast needs them for that.

So im my mind the wing muscles of a Dragon that sice schould have much bigger muscles there. But if i make them bigger then they are now it looks stupid, too.

utchamp
12-03-2007, 06:58 PM
Ok, i see what your saying... and i see whats bothering me now.:D

the bone part of the wing directly intersects with the shoulder , making it look entirely solid. I agree with the amount of muscle there, they certainly need alot, but the anatomy looks weird.

http://www.iconusa.com/online/Images/D&D/ICONS/D&D_Icons_Gargantuan_Black_Dragon.jpg

check where the wing intersects the shoulder, the wing comes in from the side, on your dragon it comes in from the top straight down into the shoulder. In most dragon pics that i could find, the wings are not part of the shoulder, they are behind the shoulder.

[did i just make it worse :argh:] :shrug:

Dragoonmind
12-03-2007, 07:45 PM
I see ....


Well i dont thing that the position or the size of the dragons wings are the reason.
I think it will be much better when i modle the normalmap in zbrush for it.
Think that will do the work.

Some pics that inspired me ...

http://www.eq2online.com/gallery/albums/concept-art/Dragon.jpg

http://users.telenet.be/anthrax/White%20Dragon.JPG
http://www.draconika.com/types/images/silver-dragon.jpg

utchamp
12-05-2007, 05:55 PM
nice!

I will be eagerly awaiting the zbushed models :thumbsup:

Dragoonmind
03-08-2008, 11:55 AM
hey guys,


well i have finished the Dragon Model. But i forgot to post it here. Well i havent had time anyway. Sorry for that.

I wil Post som Pictures when i come home ... and had time to take a breath

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