Character: Bully (Zbrush Test )

[Equinoxx]

way cool martin, glad to see you're checking out z-brush.
any insights on what you used z-brush for in that pic ?
and maybe some insight as how te do that ??

been meaning to look into it. but haven't got round to it yet

[leigh]

That's bloody awesome Martin :applause:
I haven't managed to create anything like that in ZBrush yet LOL

This may seem like a dumb question, but why are some parts hi-res and some parts low-res? :surprised

That's quite a strange wireframe, actually :surprised It's odd how in some places the polys kinda gather into little points.

[ambient-whisper]

oh heh. dont get me wrong.. i didnt model him completely in zbrush haha :D im just trying to see here how zbrush will handle higher detailed meshes. and paint in stuff like veins.. etc. etc. :D

then i can make a difference map between the original model and the smoothed/high detailed version so i can just displace the original :D

so what i did in that high poly version is masked out areas i want to smooth. and then displace some areas.. add soem irregularity to the skin so its not as "perfect"

in the end i plan to get him to this detail quality.

http://ambient-whisper.cgcommunity.com/images/sketches/bully.jpg

http://ambient-whisper.cgcommunity.com/images_dump/Bully-C.jpg

umm. something like these by Dave Cardwell.

http://ambient-whisper.cgcommunity.com/images_dump/DaveCardwell/chestC.jpg

http://ambient-whisper.cgcommunity.com/images_dump/DaveCardwell/chestD.jpg

http://ambient-whisper.cgcommunity.com/images_dump/DaveCardwell/chestB.jpg


{EDIT}

but having that said.. i had a few pure zbrush tests that were pretty cool too.

the main workflow is,

1.)take zspheres. flesh out the model

2.) convert it to a low cage. ( should look like a model that has been extruded a number of times in any other app. so the result should be really clean

3.) take the move tool and brush size set to 1. you can move the verticies around to further shape the character. if you have it set at anything larger than 1 itll act sort of like a magnet.

4.) use the divide command to add polys into the model and then smooth so its not so rigid.

you can then sculpt the model using edit mode with a brush size between 1 and 10?!

and keep adding detail where you want it by using ctrl+left click over the model, going to selection/ invert. and then press divide/smooth.

thats the general workflow.

{EDIT}

[chi]

wow thats great...now make it in 3d!

[John Lee]

He Martin

WOW excellrnt!! Looking very good!!!

John

[ambient-whisper]

been cleaning up the mesh and UVing him the last 2 days or so. finally i can go back and do all the fun sculpting :D

http://ambient-whisper.cgcommunity.com/images_dump/Spiraloid/Bully-Z-02.jpg

[Fetus23]

Beautiful details in that mesh ambient...zbrush looks like alot of fun for fine detailing. Looks a bit like working with the poly sculpt tool in maya. Always liked that model of yours...Will we see a finished peice here, textures and all? Top notch job as usual. :thumbsup:

:beer:
fetus

[visualboo]

Your on a mission man.... bloody mission! :beer:

[ambient-whisper]

update :)

http://ambient-whisper.cgcommunity.com/images_dump/Spiraloid/Bully-Z-03.jpg

[Troub]

whow ambient!
what a muscular detail.
very impressive and already with lots of personality.
keep up:applause:

[Mahlikus]

Fetus: It is just like the maya tools. Very interactive and tons of fun!

It is 3D chi! Cant you see the polys???:rolleyes:

Anyway, excellent Modeling man.
I do that same thing, begin modeling in ZBrush and then take it to other aps.

BTW Virtuoso, ZBrush exports wonderfully!! TextureMaster is to die for also.

I dont think people give it enough credit. I mean, I made a full figure model from ZSpheres, did detailed modeling, and texturing and it ony took about 6 hours total. I have tried doing that in other apps and it takes alot longer. After seeing your images though, I think I will sub my mesh to a higher poly count just so I can get some of those wondeful details.
Keep em comin man!!:beer: :buttrock: :thumbsup:

edit- BTW Ambient....did you use adaptive skinning or unified?...by the looks of it...you used adaptive and then subbed various areas as needed...yes?

[Joebount]

die bastard, diiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiieeeeee :surprised :buttrock: :thumbsup:

:beer:

[PsySpectre]

Niiice!
can't wait for the texturing! :D

[Maximus Groff]

OMG!

I must...work... more hard... must stop playing warcraft 3.. ;)

Awesome... u translated perfectly the concept from paper... this is the HARDEST part at all (erasure song ?)....


:drool:

[ceql]

Wow, great details... very nice! :applause:

hmm makes Zbrush seem quite tempting to look at too, thanks for sharing your workflow ;)

[Mandrake]

hey man, please keep us informed on this, I'm very interested
in this technique, beeing able so far to get displacements in render (via normal mapper) but I have problems with ZBrush,
dont know the softvare yet and some GK issues..

great muscles tho..

[Hexodam]

:applause: :applause: :applause:

[Mahlikus]

Some info too ambient...if you didnt know. The next version of ZB...(which is free for current owners) will have the ability to generate custom/exportable Displacement maps with the mesh. They are easily made too, like painting on modeling...I cant explain it but its going to rock...just thought I would let you all know.

[ambient-whisper]

Troub: thanks :D

Mahlikus: chi was just joking ;) i actually began this model 2 years ago in Mirai, then left him in a really unfinished state, brought him over to Clay recently, remodeled his head/ears/ pants etc. and now im using zbrush for secondary details which will be extracted from the model and then applied as a displacement map. yep. im aware of the displacement maps that should be comming around in the next version ( i was hoping they would have made it to 1.55, but unfortunately didnt. ( ofcourse that gives pixologic more time to refine them :D )


Hexodam: :thumbsup:

Mandrake: hey man. i think you have to run zbrush at 32 bit colour. that might be the problem? but yep, definitely will keep posting in this thread. ( btw. if you use subdees you can displace the models. no need for normal maps because the surface will be infinitely smooth anyway. its only if the application smoothes the polys instead that you will need normal maps for :)

ceql: yeah. its a pretty fine tool. its missing a thing here and there but for what im using it for its quite good. ( and the next upcomming versions apparantely will be more refined for sculpting details :D )

Maximus Groff: haha. funny you say that. because i been playing that game a bit too much lately.. ( well. was last week )

PsySpectre: same, should be fun !!

Joebount: im sorry :( .... .. . . :thumbsup:

gonna try post another update a bit later today :)

[Troll]

I swear i have seen this baby before (on my HD among other places;)). He has been a good source of inspiration for me:)
Rock on!:buttrock:

[Ryu]

Hi !
I m very interested in your workflow, and i would like to know a little more...
For your first picture, the model is in another soft than zbrush right? You exported the geometry as it was in zbrush? no optimizing?
How do you do not to have a mess in zbrush, with all the divides ?Especially when you work with an imported model from Clay? (or any other soft... ;) )
The flow of the geometry of the picture ChestC.jpg is out of zbrsuh too? How does he have so a good flow for the polys?
How do you do to have a number of polys quite low? (I found that zbrush needs a lot of polys, and always want more...)
in the end, is there any way not to loose too much the shape using the smooth command? (same with mask applied)

Your model is amazing, and always was, since mirai or so i see it, but it's always SUUUCH a plaisure :)

I'm in love with your model man, not my fault... :love:

cya soon (and sorry for all the questions, but this workflow interests me a lot...)
:wavey:

[Mahlikus]

*hope you dont mind me linking this ambient....and sorry chi on the assumption :blush: *
RYU: here is a ZSphere figure. We call em Zifs...its easier to say. He is at 2100 polys in this stage, and that isnt even at the lowest mesh setting either.
I believe my first setting was at 550 polys.

creature stage 1 (http://209.132.69.82/uploaded_from_zbc/200304/user_image-1050384721paj.jpg)

Also, I will say this now, I am not here to spam or anything. I am just really excited about ZBrush decause I have been able to do things in there (3D) that I havent in any other program...more over, exportable mesh. I am also excited that there is another high end modeler that is using ZB. There doesnt seem to be too many people here talking about it/using it..

[chi]

yey....my internets back....so youll be doing less work again :D umm i was gonna comment on the gaping hole that is his a$$...but i dont think i want to hear an explanation :D...
oh i almost forgot...if your trying to follow the picture why doesnt the "drawing" have boobs that look like grapefruit in socks too?

p.s. i wasnt joking....he really cant do 3d....hes just soo good at 2d that all his stuff somehow gets misrepresented as 3d :shrug: oh well...:insane:

[Raul-Reznek]

Yes Ambient!!! very very impressive! the back side i see is better develpoed than the front, very nice

I don't like the leg additions and i don't like the EXTREME deiierence of detail between the head and body

I'm really waiting for the styling :D

[bombyx]

That level of detail is impressive............It sticks so well to the design......man Z-brush is one kick-ass App, and U know how to get the best of it .I love it so far so keep posting!!!! :drool:

[ambient-whisper]

Originally posted by Raul-Reznek
I don't like the leg additions and i don't like the EXTREME deiierence of detail between the head and body

:) thats why its in the WIP section of the forum :D ill get to it :)

[mrgrimmx]

I'm impressed!! I had no idea zbrush could be used for such detailed work. From the pictures I'd seen of old versions, I had not even given a thought to usin it before.

I hope they have a demo out, I'm quite interested in trying it out now.

[AshodT]

wow Ambient,you always have to do some crazy thing!!:buttrock:

i cant even iagine how you did that,havent got an idea of the tools.

all i can say its : damn impressive,i want more!! :beer:

[Teyon]

I was thinking of getting ZBrush to add some extra details to my Rhino characters, how are you finidng the process overall? Is it fairly simple to get in veins and such? Would you use it for full bump mapping or only adding some minor surface variants instead. The model is looking great so far.

[unLevel]

Originally posted by mrgrimmx
I'm impressed!! I had no idea zbrush could be used for such detailed work. From the pictures I'd seen of old versions, I had not even given a thought to usin it before.

I hope they have a demo out, I'm quite interested in trying it out now.

They DO have a demo out, it can be downloaded here:

http://pixologic.com/download/cdownloadfr.html

[Mahlikus]

Oh my I'm so excited about this new ability for ZBrush to handle extremely high poly counts. Pixolator (the creator of ZBrush) just released his own results with this Beta version here. (http://209.132.69.82/uploaded_from_zbc/200304/user_image-1050907859hrt.jpg)

The thread can be seen here. (http://www.pixolator.com/zbc-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=010822)

*Once again, sorry to post in your thread ambient....but if CGTalk had a ZBrush Section....:shrug: *

[ambient-whisper]

well. unfortunately ive come to a dead end. :/ for some reason zbrush doesnt want to subdivide my model anymore. well it does but not how i expect and adds maybe 3 edges to like 300 faces... so i end up pretty much exactly the same amount of detaul i had to begin with. i guess what i will have to do is start him over, and subdivide the entire body several times over and go from there :/

[Raul-Reznek]

you GOTTA be jokin me!
i know i don't wanna get zbrush!

[ambient-whisper]

well. it could be a problem on my part and not necesseraly zbrush. i mean when i moved the model from mirai over to clay and then back to mirai for cleanup there was a ton of "crap" in the model. ill try to get the file over to pixolator and see if he can solve the problem.

[Mahlikus]

Sad new...very sorry to hear that.
:sad:

[ambient-whisper]

:d
its ok. i learned what it was, its a 250k poly limit on imported mesh models apparantely :)
but if things go well, i should be getting back to him soon:)

[Mandrake]

Originally posted by ambient-whisper
btw. if you use subdees you can displace the models. no need for normal maps because the surface will be infinitely smooth anyway. its only if the application smoothes the polys instead that you will need normal maps for :)


I dont understand this (stupid me:) ).. I just want to get extra
details on surface in render time this way:
- block out poly cage until average detail reached
- use first smothing level poly for shaping in zbrush into hi detail
- make a normal map between first lev. poly and hi detailed poly
- use it for displacement in micro poly dicing capable renderer
like renderman
- animate low cage in scene not burdened by geometry or subd
levels

having said that I really dont understand what you said there.
Would you care to elaborate a bit? Maybe I misunderstand something?(more likely):)

[ambient-whisper]

well. when i say subdivision surfaces i mean "real" surfaces that are infinitely smooth. the only reason to ever need a "normal map" is to create an illusion that the surface is more complex than it really is. if you use ..ie renderman, and displace a subdivision model it will be infinitely smooth anyway, so if you displace a model there wont be any real need to apply a normal map because your surface will be displaced to look like your high model. so the normal map wont be cheating the camera. the only thing to use normal maps at this point is to perhaps smooth out any artifacts that your displacement map might have. but even then you can always clean it up in photoshop.

btw. when you compare between the LO and HI models. try to make the LO model as clean as you can. dont do any heavy creases and such, and try to keep your uvs continuous when possible. this will create much cleaner displacement maps when you put it through the oven.

[Mahlikus]

we still talking ZB or are we talking all apps? *Me too is stupid*:hmm:

[Mandrake]

yep i got it now..

..but isn't the advantage of using normal maps for displacing high
order surfaces (instead of "regular BW" map) like this:

Right side - this can be achieved with classic displacement
Left side- this can be achieved with special writen disp. shader
which will use normal map as an input- it can not be done using
classic displacement
Am I wrong here?

[BnE]

wow thats great....
:buttrock: :buttrock:

[ambient-whisper]

Originally posted by Mandrake
yep i got it now..

..but isn't the advantage of using normal maps for displacing high
order surfaces (instead of "regular BW" map) like this:

Right side - this can be achieved with classic displacement
Left side- this can be achieved with special writen disp. shader
which will use normal map as an input- it can not be done using
classic displacement
Am I wrong here?

no. you are correct. but do you know how to setup a shader that uses those kind of displacements? you could probably just do a mix displacement, with 3 layers one for each colour, and mix them. but how to tell the renderer to use the directions is beyond me. :)

theres always this.. compile the shader, ( i think it should work, not sure ) but from the looks of it, it only uses 2 channels, red and green. and it has a normal map channel.

http://www.drone.org/tutorials/rayDisplace_renderman.html

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