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money_bags42
11-12-2007, 01:38 AM
http://members.shaw.ca/vickam/showcase/cathedral-shot17Thumb.jpg

hey all just finished up this scene, my goal was to try to create a next gen looking scene. i'll have to admit it didnt turn out super duper next gen how i wanted, but im happy with how the composition and colors turned out

what you see here is a straight screencap from max with no antialiasing or filtering, vertex colors baked, then passes on ambient occlusion, spec and hard shadows were comped on top in photoshop,

im ready to put this scene to bed, im moving onto a next scene asap but any crits / suggestions are greatly appreciated and will be applied to the next environment i do!!

thnx for viewin!

fullrezversion (http://members.shaw.ca/vickam/showcase/cathedral-shot17Comp.jpg)

Vladislav-Ivanov
11-12-2007, 04:00 AM
Not a kickass scene but looks ok.
How many polygons overall in the scene? And how many textures and what size?
Looks heavy on that.
Cant see any spec or normal maps, I presume you didnt make them or didnt include them in max material as shaders for screencap.
Overall there is an atmosphere of evil in the scene and it looks good specially the background. It seems like you have it animated unless I'm wrong.

Keep up the good work

______________________

www.vladislav-ivanov.com (http://www.vladislav-ivanov.com)

LaughingBun
11-12-2007, 05:23 AM
i think you should make a better lighting setup and give it a proper render, max viewport kinda sucks and your cutting yourself short big time for the sake of saying its a realtime screen grab. Unless its already in a game engine i dont think it matters.

One thing ive learned from participating in competitions is that presentation is EVERYTHING. you could make a beautifull model but if its got a poor lighting/rendering people will think its ugly.

Matroskin
11-12-2007, 06:02 PM
LaughingBun, imo the presentation is correct. Realtime shot is more important for environments cause they depend a lot from realtime look. If you add GI, volume for and light of max or whaever else renderer that is one thing, but as soon as it comes to real-time completely different techniques apply, unless the engine supports all what regular renderer does.

Vladislav-Ivanov, I rthink that specular and normal is not the most important. they even should not be added averywhere. Dry stones simply dont need specular after all ;)
Btw, there is a bump on skulls, and other objects r far enough for bump not to be seen.
Taste is more important than normal map generation. There r many people out there who start adding normal maps and specs even when that is not needed, while the model looks bad or it simply lacks basic taste.

I agree that on textures it might be heavy tough, but still these images r cool.

phantomworkshop
11-12-2007, 09:27 PM
I think this environment has a lot of potential but it could still use some tweaking. The lighting could be improved as well as maybe scattering those props a bit more randomly, some of them look a bit "placed". Just my $0.02

money_bags42
11-12-2007, 11:01 PM
thanks for the replies so far

Here are some rough specs of the scene:

27,451 triangles

5 - 1024x1024
1 - 1024x512
2 - 1024x256
4 - 512x512
1- 512x64
1 - 128x256
1 - 1024x256 (used for the lightbeam in distance)

So 15 textures in total. From my experience workin on ps2 and 360 games i dont think this is too heavy of a scene, unless i have my facts wrong and am totally off?


LaughingBun: i was actually considering setting up a proper max render, however i thought doing a game scenario i'd stay away from it, from games i've done in the past, what you see is what you get in the viewport, besides post-fx done by the rendering side, just a question would you be able to tell i just took a straight screengrab if i didnt tell u? :)

phantomworkshop: what about the lighting do you think could be pushed further? i'll admit the lighting was the hardest part of this scene .. and yes i did just place all the stuff around haah, i was trying some things out with reactor to have it natrually blown off the roof, however when it comes to composing something as fake as it may seem i think it gives the artist alot more control in how to lead the viewers eye by "placing" things in particular spots ;)

LaughingBun
11-12-2007, 11:55 PM
how is adding pases of abmient occlusion and shadows put together in photoshop more representative of a game enviroment than rendering it that way?

I think rendering is better because the max viewport is not representative of what modern game engines look like. Im not saying you have to make some beautifull render with mental ray and the works, But i think it could look a lot better while still looking like a game enviroment. you dont have to listen to me but i think your cutting yourself short big time.

Atleast redo the lighting

At first glance no i couldnt tell it was a screen grab, i just thought it was a really bad render. So if you cant tell its a screen grab why bother doing it that way?

money_bags42
11-13-2007, 02:23 AM
LaughingBun: you do make a valid point there, why waste time comping things when i can just do a full render anyway? i was actualyl considering doing that. and i may in the future, however for this project, i really wanted to do a render with baked vertex lighting, which is totally different than what you would see if you did a full render.

why am i doing this? because games use baked vertex lighting (perhaps this is why the lighting doesnt look as slick as it could), unless all the lights are realtime now??! lol and comping the shadow info seems like cheating, however its the same as baking out shadow maps for your level, yes seems tedious, but i've had to do it before on the last game i did, but because this is a portfolio game piece i'd rather not go into the entire scene and render shadow maps for everything, would be cool if i did tho but it'd take another few days ;p

i think the whole point of taking a screen grab, atleast in my opinion and from things i've done in the past, is what appears on your monitor is what you see in the game, minus post fx.

maybe i am cheating myself doing it this way, but i am doing it because i dont want to make something i wouldnt be able to do on a ps2 or 360 even, dont worry you are not the first person to think i am crazy doing it this way ;) maybe i am just old scool, or am just afraid of the render button hah, but i will definately give doing a proper render consideration next scene around!

Showster
11-13-2007, 07:35 AM
I think your style and game lighting solution are spot on! Don't mess with the advanced lighting solutions, old skool rules baby!

BTW where did you get your ps2 specs from? I never knew the machine could load such large images like 1024*1024.

Regards

Greg

money_bags42
11-13-2007, 07:48 AM
lol old skool is wicked hah

the last ps2 game i did we had quite a few 1024 textures , not exaclty 1024x1024 but more on the side of 1024x512 or 256, but then again it was built for multiplatforms. now that i think of it im wrong, i think in the pipe the ps2 would half size everything, but i think for xbox it left it full rez, my bad! ;p

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