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Gaboon
11-05-2007, 07:47 AM
Alright. I realized that I almost never post any WIP, always completed work. I then realized how counter-productive this is. Soooooo...here it is. My Dino-reptile-scout guy. I wanted to do something other than another human. I read about the character workflow for Gears of War and wanted to really try to up my standards for my next character. He is at about 6K. I am now doing the high poly and normal maps. I don't have Polygon Cruncher so I can't do the exact work flow I was trying to imitate. I don't know how well the normal map will read once I've textured him. I plan to do 2 X 1024 normal and color maps and 2 X 512 spec maps. Any and all observations and critisisms are always so helpful from you guys.
So...please fire away :)

Gaboon
11-05-2007, 07:50 AM
realized I didn't attack the full body shot.

matsman
11-05-2007, 11:05 AM
HI!

Love the work. The only thing bugging me a little are the tail-blades. But I think that is because it doesn't read that well yet on the full bod shot... in the concept they seem quite alright.

And also I am very curious where you get the gears of war workflow information... since I have a concept lying around myself that I want to be in UT3 and I am guessing the workflow would be the same :)

Looking forward to textures! (also have you seen the latest in dinoscience... the velociraptor actually had feathers! :eek: )

Chartist
11-05-2007, 04:03 PM
Very cool design, the head looks great. The tail looks a little thin though

Gaboon
11-07-2007, 07:47 PM
Thanks guys. Yeah, the tailblades with have an alpha channel on the texture to define its shape more. I made the tail thicker.
The Gears of War work flow (according to the D'Artiste book) was-

Make a simple base mesh and separate into pieces

import individual pieces of the character into Zbrush/mudbox for highpoly (individual pieces allows a high subdivision level to get more detail)

export each piece and use Polygon Cruncher to optimize without loosing the form

Retopologise the base mesh around the high poly pieces

generate the normal map from the high and low poly parts



I'll post more normal mapped parts soon.

dpizzle
11-08-2007, 01:16 AM
looking good, dude - i really dig the design.
i've been wanting to pick up that D'Artiste Character Modeling 2 book for some time now... how is it, overall?
and where do i get poly cruncher? i guess i could just google it, but while i'm commenting...

keep it up!
:thumbsup:

Gaboon
11-08-2007, 05:29 PM
Thanks dpizzle. I actually borrowed the book, but it is very good and informative. Polygon Cruncher is made by mootools.

Gaboon
11-13-2007, 05:46 PM
Started the texturing. The skin is far from done, but I am starting to zero in on the look Im after- dry, kind of old and used. I found lots of great reference of iguana skin. All comments and crits are helpful and appreciated :)

HughieDM
11-13-2007, 07:08 PM
I think the iguana ref is a good one I espeacialy like the up portion fo the head vs the under side of the chin
Looks sweet cant wait to see the rest of him:thumbsup:
Reminds me of some of the turok work:scream: I loved that stuff slight child hood memories of loving dinosaurs..:bounce:

Just a thought I remember hereing something about this but did you know that raptors mostlikly had feathers check this out
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/09/070920-raptor-feathers.html
just some goofy fact

keep it up
Hugh

PredatorGSR
11-13-2007, 07:09 PM
Looking cool. I would suggest adding some more color variation to the skin because color wise it is looking bland. You have some brown/green variation, but add more shades of brown and green, with different saturation levels, and try adding some purple and maybe yellow. Something that will make a big difference is adding some value variation (light/dark areas). Some suggestions would be darker colors around the eyes which will really give him a dangerous look, and around the edges of his mouth. Play around with it and see what looks good.

Can't wait to see the finished product.

Chartist
11-13-2007, 07:31 PM
Looking sweet, I like how the skin is coming. The metal looks a little blurry in comparison though

demoncage
11-13-2007, 09:03 PM
looks cool man, scales coming along nicely.

Neil
11-15-2007, 09:24 PM
I'm not a fan of the underside of the head. His jowls hang low like a pelican, but the head reminds me more of an alligator, which has a tightened jaw line.


Did you make the scales in zbrush or just convert a texture to a normal map?

Gaboon
11-15-2007, 10:22 PM
Thanks for the C&Cs guys :)

Niel-Yeah, I was looking at alot of croc, lizard and iguana picks. He is definately more reptile man than dino man. I did the scales in Zbrush using an alpha brush that I made.

PredatorGSR- Still have a lot of work to do on the skin. Good suggestions definately.

I have gone back and fourth about doing details like the scales in zbrush VS in photoshop with the normal map filter. On the one hand I feel like I can get better resolution using photoshop, and I can use the gray scale layers I create for spec and diffuse maps, but then my highpoly model (which I want for my portfolio) won't have all the detail. Also, there are seams in the UV layout that make it difficult to paint any kind of regular pattern with out getting seams in the texture. Any body have opinions or solutions on this?

RO
11-15-2007, 10:51 PM
If your making gray scale images for the nvida plugin in photoshop what you can do to take the seams out is to import the image into zbrush paint and fix the issues with the paint brush in zbrush or use the plugin zapplink to bring a flat image into photoshop. than once your done with your grayscale bring it into photoshop and normal map it

This should work.

and if your highpoly was unwrapped before hand you can use the same gray scale image to add displacement on your model.

Looking cool so far try getting some cavity maps going for this guy and place them ontop of your diffuse/color map.

HughieDM
11-15-2007, 10:55 PM
Could you post current UV layout

Neil
11-16-2007, 02:52 PM
Yeah, I was looking at alot of croc, lizard and iguana picks. He is definately more reptile man than dino man.

haha, ok. Well you mislead me since your thread is called "dino scout"

Gaboon
11-16-2007, 10:12 PM
It was either that or 'Hamster Scout', but that would be too misleading.

Gaboon
11-17-2007, 12:39 AM
Started texturing the torso. Trying different surface looks.

Gaboon
11-19-2007, 06:42 PM
Well, I'd like to upload an update, but my MB allawance is maxed and I can't delete attachments that are on closed threads for some reason. I have sent 2 messages to CGtalk support about this and they have not replied. Anybody else had this problem?

iSOBigD
11-20-2007, 09:28 PM
Just upload images to some free image hosting site and ise the img tags. You don't have to attach anything.

Spex84
11-20-2007, 09:33 PM
Photobucket has worked fine for me! They make it easy to post direct links or images.

Gaboon
11-20-2007, 10:11 PM
Alright. Thanks for the suggestion. Well, here is an update. Color scheme is a ways off, just wanted to get the surface type. All comments and crits are welcome and helpful :)

http://s5.photobucket.com/albums/y182/Gaboondave/?action=view&current=Renders4_1low.jpg
http://s5.photobucket.com/albums/y182/Gaboondave/?action=view&current=Renders4_2low.jpg
http://s5.photobucket.com/albums/y182/Gaboondave/?action=view&current=Renders4_3low.jpg

Gaboon
11-21-2007, 06:55 PM
Nothing? I think I have been black balled :( I am hoping that no comments doesn't mean its so bad that people don't have the time to enter all their crits.

matsman
11-21-2007, 07:32 PM
Hi, don't sweat it ain't that bad.. give it some time.. saw the updates this morning.. but hadn't any time to post then... but hej.. since your beggin for it :P

Firt off... I want to say I find it very hard to clearly see the things you have done... I find the perspective very disturbing.. in the first image for instance I thought you made its head bigger... but then I saw it was just distortion.. so for the next time maybe a little more normal shots would do better.

But on to the modelling... I really love the scales... but feel they could use some more yellowish hue to them... I find the colours are more amphibic for me then actually lizardlike.

Furthermore I find the normal map stuff rather busy and overpowering... I would suggest to cut back slightly on the normals and try to use your texture to clearly define what is what...

I don't like the blue plates with the lines... actually the make me think of bathroom tiles and while it is actually a good concept to use ceramic plating... I feel it looks sorta strange here... I would certainly change the lines from vertical to horizontal so they follow the body.. or even let them out completely and go with some kind of compound plastic

i do like the sleeve... that is a good idea onl I wonder how it stays in place.. but then again those japanese schoolgirls use glue.. so anything is possible.

I think the leather on the tail looks a bit weird.. seems stretched and lacks any kind of depth to it from this angle.

Finally I have some issues with the slight dent in the helmet... but I can't see very clear from here.. but it makes the helmet seem clay like in my opinion... suggestions would be to fix this by adding a texture from some hand curved not finished metal bowl, that way you don't have to add some details or harder edges there...

Also the top of the ridges on his back seem still kinda strange so look at those some more.

Well... that is a whole list... but they are all kinda minor details... really love the modelling on the head still and the scaled skin.

Keep moving forward!

Gaboon
11-24-2007, 06:30 AM
Thank you for the insiteful crits, matsman. A few things I had noticed, but most I hadn't yet.

Yeah, I think the colors in general are going to be going through a few different schemes.

I only did one pass of damage (scrapes and dents) on the highrez before starting on color and spec maps, but I will try to focus more on defining through those.

The blue plates, if I understand you correctly, are actually supposed to be a type of plasticy-leather material, but apparently aren't reading that way at all.

And the tail needs some real clean up. Not quite sure what you mean about the helmet.

Thanks for the comments :) Much appreciated. I'll post some more soon.

Gaboon
11-26-2007, 06:18 PM
Added more damage and starting to mess around with the color sceme. Still haven't focused on the skin coloring yet. Anything that pops out as notta-so-good would be helpful.
Thanks guys :)

http://s5.photobucket.com/albums/y182/Gaboondave/?action=view&current=Renders5_1low.jpg
http://s5.photobucket.com/albums/y182/Gaboondave/?action=view&current=Renders5_2low.jpg
http://s5.photobucket.com/albums/y182/Gaboondave/?action=view&current=Renders5_3low.jpg
http://s5.photobucket.com/albums/y182/Gaboondave/?action=view&current=Renders5_4low.jpg

matsman
11-26-2007, 08:46 PM
Ha that's much better already!!

I'm still not a big fan of the tailblades though.. seems they are bolted right to the tail bone.

And I am thinking some small red details on the plasticy- leathery plating we discussed.. it still needs that little extra.. jsut some dots or wriggles or something.

Oh and I would like the see those eyeballs a little more bright.. I think they get lost in all the scale detail.

keep up the good work... nearly there i believe!

Gaboon
11-27-2007, 09:30 PM
Alright. Here are the update pics. No photobucket link required, which hopefully will mean more posts. Thanks for the comments so far. Any crits or comments (especially crits, I'm a masochist) you guys have are very helpful :).

Gaboon
11-29-2007, 06:26 AM
Starting to mess with the color scemes. Got inspired by Chartist's approach.

The first one is how it is currently with subtle (hopefully not too subtle) variations on the skin and armor tones. The others are overlays, so you have to picture that they would have variation as well. I am not sold on any one in particular. I went crazy on a few.

Color scemes are one of my weaker points, so any and all comments would really help me. Thanks.

matsman
11-29-2007, 09:01 AM
Ok.. so last time there were no changes that really caught my attention so I didn't reply...

But here we have some cool stuff... I really like how the feet and legs have come out! That brown green with a slight golden shine is very nice.

On the colour variations.. I like the grey skin, the light reddish skin and the slightly more yellow armour however it is to yellow.
I would suggest to keep the armor colours more like metal. That way you might have less variation but I don't think yyou are going with blue armour anyway so you create more options... try aluminium, chrome, steel, blackened police type, old greenish copper, rusty iron.. those are quite different.

The skin tones are quite interesting on their own but I would also suggest to try your basic armour on all the skintones.. that way you have less influence from contrasts or "the best set".

I look forward to more metal variations on the armour. Cheers!

iSOBigD
11-29-2007, 10:26 PM
I think he just changed the hue in Photoshop for the entire image, that's why the colors are weird.

Anyway I really like the skin with the default colors. It came out very nice.

matsman
11-29-2007, 11:39 PM
:D I think you are right... that is what I would do...

...but that is no argument not to try something more.. or a reason not to get that "metal" feeling even with only photoshop you can get a huge number of variations.
And if you do the overlays on your texture and play a little with your shaders you can get even better results of different materials.

Anyway... I was just elaborating on possibilities because of the " Color scemes are one of my weaker points, so any and all comments would really help me." line in gaboons post.


still great work Gaboon! :thumbsup:

Gaboon
12-01-2007, 01:14 AM
Seems the consensus among people at my work here also is for the grey, tan or original skin as well. Thanks for the feedback.

Decided to deviate from the concept a bit and give him something that suited him better. About 1K polys and a 1024 normal map. Did an occlusion map but still have to texture it.

All C & C's are appreciated.

Gaboon
12-01-2007, 11:42 PM
Added a color and spec map. Both 1024. All feedback is appreciated. Thanks.

Gaboon
12-02-2007, 09:53 PM
Almost done. All c&c's are welcome....any c&c's are welcome :)

matsman
12-03-2007, 05:56 PM
Ok... I was gone for a couple of days.. but this looks awesome!! :)

I have always liked my own colour to be nicely saturated but since I work on realistic stuff (me job) there has come a change in that... since it just aint natural.. so that makes, that I am always very pleasantly surprised when seeing very good usage of only the limited saturation one has... and you did great.

My only C&C would be related to make up :D since I find what you did very beautiful.. But the features are a little lost in all the blueish greyness... so I think you should put some accents in... like the way most stage makeup is done.

I had stated once that small red lines would be a nice addition... I don;t think this is true anymore but I do think you have to choose a detail colour, little more saturated or quite darker and use it to accentuate some of the features... So we can read the face and detail a little better.

These are very last touches I think... great decision :thumbsup:

Gaboon
12-03-2007, 10:44 PM
Thanks matsman. I think some saturated accents are just what it needs. I am probably going to go back to the original bronze color armor anyway. Just a few more tweeks and hopefully I'll be done. Here is the pose I'm going to use for my port and reel. Seems you are my only friend in the barren desert of posts right now. Need...watery...feedback... :)

Goraaz
12-04-2007, 03:09 AM
It's looking really nice, Gaboon. Great skin texturing ;)

Gaboon
12-04-2007, 06:49 PM
Thank you :). Here is another render.

Gaboon
12-06-2007, 06:54 PM
Well. Here is the page for my portfolio

http://www.davidjennison.com/index.html

Tried to get all the essentials with some details. There is also a turnaround link at the top and a texture link. Any feedback you guys have on the presentation (or the model itself) is appreciated.

Matsman-thanks for your help especially :)

matsman
12-06-2007, 07:42 PM
Hi!!

well thank you! I'll show this to my boss see if I can get a raise :p

The image looks good with the background of your site. But I have still one comment left and that is considering the rimlight you have on your model... I find it is a little to harsh seems very bright white and almost like the bad clipping you get when a random non graphic user cuts someone from a photograph.

But i want to congratulate you on a job well done... I hope I am in a position to make something like your dinowarrior soon and also finish it... I am one of those guys who always has I deas but almost never finishes since I am too picky on details and that makes I do twice as long to finish something... so the only way I can get something finished is if someone else looks over my shoulder and says "hay that looks good! texture it and we put it in game" :) so all my pieces are work related... my personal stuff is at most 80 percent finished... and it is very frustrating :)

Anyways I am babbling so I'll stop and do wrestle my laptop some more (it refuses to do networking at the moment.)

It's definitely your best ever... for how long that might take! Cheers!

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