M109A6 Paladin Howitzer

[zachgrachan]

thats a low detail model? you must be the high-poly king. looks great, only crit is that the gun seems too big for the turret, and the tip seems too big for the gun; looks cool but not feasible.

[l-a-akira]

coming along nicely! keep us posted ;)

[BryanSilva]

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

I'm feeling it so far! I can't wait to see some textures on this one. Make sure you throw some dirt and bullet markings on this beast!

[Steve Warner]

Thanks for the crits and comments guys! I couldn't find any schematics for this, so the proportions are off slightly. Here are a few of the reference images I'm using:

http://www.trinitymediainc.com/WIP/Paladin/ref1.jpg http://www.trinitymediainc.com/WIP/Paladin/ref2.jpg
http://www.trinitymediainc.com/WIP/Paladin/ref3.jpg

zachgrachan: I suppose it is slightly ironic to say that 50,000 polys is a low count... :surprised I guess I consider it low because I know I could do more detailing on some of the objects. For example, the rings, handle bars, and boxes are seriously low res. If you get close, you'll see that they are really blocky. I figured I could get away with it since the primary use at work would never show detail shots. :)

l.a. akira: Thanks! Will do. :thumbsup:

Bryan Silva: Texturing is my weak point, but I'm having a blast (no pun intended) with this, so I'll give it a try!

Thanks again,

Steve

[PvtRyan]

NICE!
Who knows the Battlefield 1942 mod Desert Combat? It also features the M109, great tank! :)

[HoodZ]

sweet :applause:

[Steve Warner]

HoodZ and PvtRyan: Thanks guys!

One small mod today. Changed the turret lid and added the machine gun. More to come on Monday. :)

http://www.trinitymediainc.com/WIP/Paladin/gun1.jpg
http://www.trinitymediainc.com/WIP/Paladin/gun2.jpg

Thanks for your comments!

Steve

[Steve Warner]

Finished the modeling. Added a few more detail objects to the back and will post a render showing those soon.

Started texturing. Using procedurals at this point.

http://www.trinitymediainc.com/WIP/Paladin/texture4.jpg

Crits and comments are welcome!

Thanks in advance,

Steve

[Steve Warner]

Showing the final detail objects on the back and the initial texture work:

http://www.trinitymediainc.com/WIP/Paladin/texture5.jpg

http://www.trinitymediainc.com/WIP/Paladin/texture6.jpg

Comments? :shrug:

[BiTMAP]

material looks like a plastic model, tanks are metal plates and all but they usualy have pretty flat plates very few dings and such... However lots of dust would look nice maybe some dirt cought in the corners?

[freddie]

looks good :thumbsup:

but isn´t the hole in the front of the cannon a little small? :hmm:

[schmu_20mol]

nice model so far...you just missed 2 very important points on this one...the 'hole' at the barrels top (in the muzzle reducer) needs to be bigger...remember there are about 120mm projectiles to be shot out...and the most important one is for the M109 the barrel clump is missing...this tank will never be able to drive about a hundred meters without the bc because the barrel would swing too much and there would be crackles in it...those small details...nevermind they're not of interest if there won't be a close up...beside that nice work..:wavey:

[Steve Warner]

BiTMAP: Good catch. I wasn't able to find enough real photos of an M109A6, so I worked off images of a plastic model:

http://www.trinitymediainc.com/WIP/Paladin/PALA04.jpeg

I'll go back and rework the surfaces today. Thanks!

freddie: Thanks. And you're right. I'll fix that!

schmu_20mol: Ahh, a man who knows his military vehicles. :) You're right about the hole in the muzzle reducer. I didn't catch that before, but I'll make the change this morning. I was hoping no one would notice the lack of the barrel clamp. :p For my project at work, the gun will be firing and we'll see it from the back, so I didn't really need it. But you're right. It is missing, and should be added. My reference photos don't really show any details of it, but I'll try to find some more and add it in.

Thanks for the comments! Keep 'em coming!

Steve

[PvtRyan]

http://www.usarc.army.mil/88thRSC/other_units/history_museum/collection_images/M109%20SP%20Howitzer.jpg

http://www.umt.edu/rotc/images/m109-b.gif

http://www.checkpoint-online.ch/CheckPoint/Images/N-M109-KAWEST.jpg

http://www.kar.dk/Grafik/vaaben/M109_04.jpg

http://www.warmud.com/ttt/ttt-79.jpg

:wavey:

[PvtRyan]

http://sill-www.army.mil/Graphics/WEAPONS/m109.gif

http://homepage.tinet.ie/~steven/images/bw-m109-a3ge_30.jpg

http://www.armyvehicles.dk/images/m109.jpg

http://www.nizzola.ch/privato/militare/m109.jpg

http://www.hellas.org/military/army/images/m109-3.jpg

http://www.dew.ca/military/m109.gif

http://www.exercito.gov.br/03Brafor/armtmuni/Imagens/M109.jpg

http://www.state.ky.us/agencies/military/images/m109.gif

[Steve Warner]

PvtRyan to the rescue!!! You ROCK! :buttrock: Thanks for the reference images!

[schmu_20mol]

hey steve warner...no prob i've driven the self-propelled howitzer 2000 for the last 6 months and at the time is learned to drive it i had some M109 in my mirror to watch ;) ....hope to see some updates soon :beer:

[Witchy]

Nice model. This site has some scale drawings as well as lots of pics and tech specs for the M109 and Paladin variants.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/m109-intro.htm

[Steve Warner]

schmu_20mol wrote
i've driven the self-propelled howitzer 2000 for the last 6 months
:eek: That's so cool! We don't have any physical references here on base, so your input is certainly valued!

Witchy: Thanks for the site, man! I pulled a few new photos from there. Very helpful. :)

[Steve Warner]

I built the support mechanism for the Howitzer. The reference photos were a little dark, but I think I got it close. I also removed the bump maps and added dust. I put in a new ground texture, but it's not final yet. I added more of an environment as well.

http://www.trinitymediainc.com/WIP/Paladin/texture7.jpg

I still need to go back and play with the metal textures. It still looks like a plastic model, so I'll try and tackle that next.

Any thoughts? :shrug:

Steve

[PvtRyan]

Especially the barrel more metal-like, and maybe some random very subtle bump on the hull.
I think the texture is a little bit to light and could use some scratches and dust caught in corners or something.
A good lighting in the scene could also make it look better :)

[Steve Warner]

PvtRyan: Thanks for the comments. :thumbsup: I'll address the bump and metal issues tomorrow.

One last image for today. This one with more harsh (and probably realistic) lighting.

http://www.trinitymediainc.com/WIP/Paladin/texture8.jpg

Thanks to everyone for your comments. It's really making this a stronger piece. :)

[schmu_20mol]

the barrel clamp has to be open at the top ...gues how you wanna get the barrel out of some closen ring?

[Witchy]

Actually the barrel clamp (actually called the remote travel lock)opens...remotely. If it were completely open at the top all the time the barrel would bounce out and negate the point of having it in the first place if you think about it. I know you have been driving in front of them but I think if it were open all the time you would have seen a lot of barrels flying round your ears in the rear view mirror!

The one on the model is a bit too thin and iirc they are built up to one side to host the mechanism as well as having a tripod like strut structure. Been a little while since I was next to one myself.

[schmu_20mol]

well actually the m109 has no remote system to open the travel lock...at least in germany....well all in all the m109driver has to go out and unlock manually....actually it's a hydraulic pressure system...the self-propelled howitzer 2000 has a remote travel lock

[Steve Warner]

schmu_20mol and Witchy:

Thanks for your continued input. I really appreciate it! :applause: Here is an OpenGL screen capture of the barrel clamp. It appeared closed in the previous renders, but it's actually "open" on the right... Still, I think Witchy is correct. This rendition is still wrong.

http://www.trinitymediainc.com/WIP/Paladin/clamp.jpg

Looking at the reference images PvtRyan posted again, it's clear that this is too thin at the top. I'll go back and rework that tomorrow.

Thanks for everyone's input. I couldn't have gotten this far without it! :wip:

Steve

[Superholger]

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m109a6.htm

[Steve Warner]

Superholger: Thanks for the link, man!

Ok. I spent all day yesterday staring at my reference photos trying to figure out how the hell the clamp was built. I did some sketches to try and re-create it from front and side views. Here is the result:

http://www.trinitymediainc.com/WIP/Paladin/clamp1.jpg http://www.trinitymediainc.com/WIP/Paladin/clamp2.jpg

and the full shot:

http://www.trinitymediainc.com/WIP/Paladin/tank_nclamp.jpg

It appears that the clamp is hinged on both sides and attached to a base. That base then branches out and attaches to a larger hinge connected to the Paladin. On the front are two box-like structures. Without an adequate front detail view, I'm having to guess at what these do or how they're connected, but I've tried to recreate them as faithfully as possible.

It's interesting that in my reference images, the clamps look different in some of the photos. That doesn't surprise me, as the Paladin looks different in each photo as well. But it sure makes modeling difficult. :rolleyes: Anyway, I'm thinking that this is pretty close.

Thoughts? :shrug:

Thanks for the comments!

Steve

[Maximus Groff]

Amazing! :wip: :eek:

[Steve Warner]

Maximus Groff: Thanks!!!

I tweaked the textures, trying to get more of a metal feel. Texturing is still not my strong point, so any crits are welcome. I also added some rocks and a tiny amout of DOF. I color corrected the final render and added a little more noise (there was already a noise filter in Lightwave) in CompuPic.

http://www.trinitymediainc.com/WIP/Paladin/final01a.jpg

Comments? :wip:

Steve

[PvtRyan]

Looks awesome, great improvements since last time! :applause:

But errrr did the tank fly to its position? Cause it didn't left a trail in the sand ;)

[Steve Warner]

PvtRyan: Thanks! You're help has been invaluable along the way. :wip: I'll try to tackle the tracks in the sand thing tonight.

Thanks again!

Steve

[Steve Warner]

Added some tracks, reduced the dust in the air (which was causing the whole image to be washed out) and adjusted the lighting.

http://www.trinitymediainc.com/WIP/Paladin/tracks.jpg

I got feedback from another user saying that the metal needed reworking. I'll try to revise that tomorrow in addition to adding some wear and tear.

Thoughts? :shrug:

[Steve Warner]

Worked on the metallic issue. Added gradients to the specular incidence angle:

http://www.trinitymediainc.com/WIP/Paladin/tracks2.jpg

[BiTMAP]

it needs a spec map with less spec around the edges (i know it sounds stupid) and make it lots of little gritty grimy stuff. Also the tank would sink quite a bit into the sand. AND the lighthing feels wrong and too harsh (aka it could use 3 point or GI)

[bigbad]

Add alot of dust. Like little sandstorm. Gives great effect.

Cool model by the way.

[PvtRyan]

Looks great, but I agree that it needs some work on the metal, maybe the metal comes out better when you increase/add bump level. Specular level could be a bit higher too.
Tracks look good, but the tank needs to be sunk a bit into the sand, it weighs 30 tons :)

The model itself looks better, but the shadows are too sharp. I liked the one with the dust and noise better, but here the model is better, try combining the two ;)

Btw, make the wheels dirty, sand in the corners etc.
and some sand stains on the side of the tank

[Steve Warner]

BiTMAP: You're absolutely right. I put the incident gradient in the specular channel. I'll go back today and put that in the diffuse channel. Good call on the sinking into the sand issue. :applause: I'll deal with that once the texturing problems are worked out. The lighting here is a mixture of 3-point and direct light. My original textured renders used 3-point lights, but that seemed really unnatural. I switched over to a single distant light to give more contrast, but began feeling that it was too stark. That's why I introduced a little of the 3-point light again. Being from Arizona, I can attest that many photos from summer look like this. But I'm going to take PvtRyan's suggestion and bring the dust filter back in so that it envelopes the tank more. That should help ease off the highly contrasty look. :) Thanks for your comments!

bigbad: Lots of dust. Check!

PvtRyan: In addition to placing the gradients in the diffuse channel, I'll try adding some small bumps. That might help break up the metal and give this model some much needed weathering. Good call on the weight issue. :thumbsup: And I'll be bringing the dust back into the foreground once the metal textures are worked out. I also got a tip in the LW forum for a plugin that adds grit in the corners of objects. I'll give that a try a little later.

I really want to thank everyone for your continued crits! I'm really learning from them and feel that they're directly responsible for the success of this piece. :beer:

Thanks!

Steve

[Steve Warner]

Ok, I'm sure some of you are wondering why the hell it's taking me so long to work the surfacing out. :rolleyes: This is the first complex object I've textured, so bear with me. :arteest:

I stripped out all of the shaders and left just the camoflauge texture. I then went back and added gradients to the diffuse channel of the metal textures. After the metal looked decent, I went in and added color gradients to make it dusty. Finally, I added a few bump maps to roughen it up.

http://www.trinitymediainc.com/WIP/Paladin/crap.jpg

I lowered the Paladin so that it sank in a bit, but it could still probably use work. I also removed all lighting effects, so the lighting is not finalized. I brought the dust/haze up so that it encompases the back of the tank and increased the noise on the native render.

As always, I'm open to crits. :wavey:

Thanks,

Steve

[PvtRyan]

As always, great improvement since last time!
But after all my whining for a bumpmap, it's been a LITTLE overdone ;)
Reduce the bump on the front a bit, but underneath the bump looks good and to the side also. Too bad you dumped the camo texture, would look cool with this bump mapping, and some dust to it.
btw, great barrell, nothin to crit about that! :airguitar

[Steve Warner]

PvtRyan: Yeah, that was a little overkill. I went back today and stripped down the textures again. I tried playing with a weight map to localize the bump, but that didn't seem to do too much. It appears I'll have to RTMF before I get a handle on it.

I reworked the textures again. Adjusted the bump and lowered the amount of dust so the base cammo texture showed through. I also reduced the specular on all metal surfaces and lowered the tank in the sand a bit more. I'm thinking this is getting close.

http://www.trinitymediainc.com/WIP/Paladin/fixed01a.jpg


Crits and comments are welcome! :wip:

Steve

[BiTMAP]

that is the nicest render yet, some of the barrel still looks od and some of the panels on the body feel weird... but its nice :D

[mohh]

You should put the dust back to its original level. I've seen these babies in action and there is so much dust that you can barely see the surrounding area. I was in a HMMV and almost got hit by an Abrams. I was out on a recon with my commander and just happened to come across a convoy of tracked vehicles. There was so much dust that even though it sounded as if it riding in it, I didn't see it until it was about 5 feet away from me!

[Grub]

Great modelling. Looks perfect to me.:xtreme:

[E_Moelzer]

Hello
Great Model!
I think you should lower the smoothing- angle in the surface- settings a bit though. I am not sure but in some pics it looks like it is smoothing over hard edges...
Otherwise great work! I actually got a small but very detailed plastic- model of this tank once. A version of it is even in use at the Austrian military.
CU
Elmar

[Steve Warner]

mohh: I envy you for being able to see one of these up close! I'll consider putting the dust back in. The model will only be used for still images at work (and for that it needs to be fairly clear), but should I get the chance to animate it, I'll drop in some particle effects and make the dust really fly! :)

Grub: Thanks, man! :thumbsup:

E_Moelzer: Thanks for the tip on the smoothing angle! As I've gone through and copied surface attributes, it's possible that I pasted a smooth texture over one that should be flat. :p Thanks for the kind words on the model as well! I'm glad you like it!

Well, this is the end of the road for this project. The course I'm working has come due and so I'll have to stop the updates here. I really want to say thank you to all the people who faithfully commented and critiqued me on this. I especially want to thank PvtRyan, schmu_20mol, and BiTMAP for your continual support. This is one of those projects that I hastily threw together, but it's turned out to be one of my most successful works. I couldn't have done that without your direction and encouragement. :bowdown:

Sincerely,

Steve Warner

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