Cloud tutorial

[dnashj33]

You mention in the last paragraph how things will begin to show when animating...how did you manage get around that?

Thanks

Don

[jussing]

Hi, thank you for the question.

I didn't get around that, and you can see the intersection artifacts in the second clip in the MOV:
http://www.duck.dk/tutorials/jussing_cloud_tutorial.mov

These artifacts only show when using the highlight technique in chapter 4.

You also have intersections with the regular particles (the first clip in the MOV), but those intersections are invisible because of the uniform colors.

The intersections start showing, the moment you create particles with different colors or texture maps.

- Jonas

[moidphotos]

This looks very interesting! I haven't had a chance to try it myself yet (have just read the PDF) and it strikes me that you might be able to avoid some of those edge artifacts by using the cutout function in the A&D shader? That might remove the transparent parts from being hit at any rate, perhaps - admittedly as the clouds face the camera there would still be brightness issues on the cloud areas...

I have been trying experiments at faking volumetric clouds myself using spheres with normal mapped gradients and displacement - these create very good fractal cloud edges at certain angles, but are hampered by a similar problem - as soon as you rotate the camera the cloud changes form. I have used this as a technique to render out nice flat cloud cards for placement in the distance in a scene, but it's certainly not what i was hoping for.

http://www.vexedmedia.com/3dforum/uploads/post-156-1187128787.jpg

[jussing]

Thanks for reading the tut.

it strikes me that you might be able to avoid some of those edge artifacts by using the cutout function in the A&D shader?

What's the A&D shader? Do you mean Mental Ray's Architecture and Design? If so, then no, there's no "cutout function" or special render features here, it's just an opacity map in a totally standard 3ds Max material, it's meant to be rendered with Max's built-in scanline renderer (though it renders faster with MR).

I understand your approach with spheres, I've tried that myself, but so far, billboards with gradients and ambient lights is the best approach I've tried.

If angle is your big problem, then you should definitely try this tutorial - as the animation shows, you can render the cloud from any angle, and even fly through it.

Cheers,
- Jonas

[s-rajesh78]

Hi jonas,
:thumbsup:
Thats a great tutorial, thanks for sharing !!

cheers,
Rajesh.S

[jussing]

The tut is now online at Autodesk's AREA:

http://area.autodesk.com/index.php/tutorials/tutorial_index/3ds_max_cloud_tutorial_faking_ray_marching_using_gradients_and_distance_bas/

- Jonas

[PsychoSilence]

really like it! nice approach and something close to what pixomondo images did for "Red Baron"...

[JohnnyRandom]

Nice Jonas:) Afterburn Clouds are great but the render overhead just kills the practicallity of it (from the earlier thread (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=206&t=393051&page=1&pp=15) )

This approach seems to be quite a bit more controllable/less resource intensive.


@Anselm, that cloud generator Pixomondo's got looks epic man:D

[jussing]

it strikes me that you might be able to avoid some of those edge artifacts by using the cutout function in the A&D shader?
Do you mean Mental Ray's Architecture and Design? If so, then no, there's no "cutout function" or special render features here, it's just an opacity map in a totally standard 3ds Max material, it's meant to be rendered with Max's built-in scanline renderer

@moidphotos: It strikes me now that I misunderstood your last post - you're suggesting a way to avoid the artifacts. But I still don't think the cutout function is going to work. The artifacts are an inevitable consequence of differently textures billboards intersecting each other.

@psycho: Thanks for the comparison, Pixomondo's work on Red Baron is absolutely awesome, beats the crap out of "Flyboys", and I also like the clouds better than in Stealth (which was also awesome)

@Johnny: Thanks.

Cheers all,
- Jonas

[Daniel-B]

That is awesome. Thank you for taking the time to make that. :thumbsup:

[jonsb01]

Brilliant tutorial! Really very easy to follow and the principles that it covers can be used in soooo many ways!
Note to others: don't limit yourselves to just creating clouds after reading this tutorial!
Jon

[eractou]

..........

[stv]

I read only now... Thanks Jussing, great tut!

[Chrysley]

Wow! You're a genius man! Thank you so much!

[Mike Truly]

This a great method (Thanks for that!).

But I wish there were a way to apply it to multiple clouds rather than a single cloud structure. Currently, in the fluffy teapot and tunnel examples, a single light lights a single cloud structure. I want to light multiple clouds which are each separated from each other by a distance (picture individual clouds in a blue sky). This would require an individual light for each cloud so that the clouds would each have a light and a dark side.

The only way I can imagine this could be done with this lighting technique is if there was a script that generated each cloud and it's light, set the light to only include that cloud, and then had some means where when you changed one light's position... all the cloud lights position changed so their direction would always match. (Don't know what this would do to rendertime compared to AB, etc.).

Thanks!

[jussing]

Hey Mike, that's spot on true! :)

In the larger scenes I've made, that's exactly what I've done - multiple lights, one (or more) for each cloud.

I've tried out a technique with mapping an inverted z-depth buffer out over the landscape, that kind-of sort-of works with only two lights for the entire cloud landscape, but you're propably better of getting a real volumetric render.

Thanks for the continuing support, it means a lot.
- Jonas

BTW, if any of you guys have tested the tutorial, I'm dying to see your results. Please post.

[jussing]

I found some videos on YouTube from people who did the tutorial:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=fNGBBL6wOmY
http://youtube.com/watch?v=4VvWFQq6igU
http://youtube.com/watch?v=ndNgvdj2GIA
http://youtube.com/watch?v=IGx529cx-1M
http://youtube.com/watch?v=1b4d7zNok0Q
http://youtube.com/watch?v=TWLJ-1yGPsk
http://youtube.com/watch?v=bfaek0fVUQw
http://youtube.com/watch?v=KkcDvDQWLC0


- if you know more, I'm dying to see them!

- Jonas

[davius]

Invaluable material! Very good tut Jussing, as always!

[Airflow]

Done after reading your DD thread, I found the color fallofs too fiddly, but for post its a good thing.

I think I used normals on this, cant remember though cos I dont have the file anymore.

Drop (http://www.veoh.com/videos/v528890tzZmFksD)

[jussing]

That's great, Airflow! :) I like the idea of pulling back instead of looking forwards.


- Jonas

[ice-boy]

so we basicly link the cloud particles to the camera.

its like trapcode particular? no matter how you turn the camera they will turn infront of the camera.



i want to do something like that.
http://www.brunovilela.com/uploads/SH08.mp4
of course not so realistic but similar.i think i need to model first basic shapes. i am very good at photoshop. so i can make very good cloud maps. but how to import more the one map? so that the particle system uses random images?

[jussing]

i am very good at photoshop. so i can make very good cloud maps. but how to import more the one map? so that the particle system uses random images?Sure, that's a great way of doing it!

You just create a multi-ID material, with each custom cloud map in its own material slot.

Then in the particle flow - I don't remember exactly how - you can add a "material" node or something, and tell it to randomly apply material ID's to the particles, or cycle the materials from the multi-material, or something.

Good luck!

(and, for the record - lots of the clouds over the island in Pirates 2 was done exactly like this - cloud paintings on flat cards in 3D, to simulate volume. So yes, it works :) )

- Jonas

[ice-boy]

in pirates it was like that? i dotn remember flying through clouds.

i got amazing results in after effects plug in trapcode particular. but the problem was always that i couldnt get shadows and shading in there.i couldnt model the shape of clouds,i couldnt fly around them. so this will be beter and give me more control.
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=10&t=645090&highlight=clouds

[ice-boy]

how could i make random particles have opacity 50 %?

[jussing]

in pirates it was like that? i dotn remember flying through clouds.

http://www.e-onsoftware.com/showcase/spotlights/?page=ilm

Smoke and clouds were painted, and then projected onto flat cards, and all were layered to give the image a sense of Volume

Cheers,
- Jonas

[ice-boy]

aha ok. you are right. sounds smart but i dont understand exactly how they did it.

i am now testing with different image maps.doesnt look good. but i will try more.

[jussing]

aha ok. you are right. sounds smart but i dont understand exactly how they did it.Just like this cloud tutorial, only simpler. Paint 5-10 clouds, put them on cards facing the camera. :)

- Jonas

[ice-boy]

how can i set random opacity of the particles?

[Xatia]

Hello Jussing. I appreciate your cloud tutorial very much. But there's a little problem. I'll describe it below:

I added the particles in 3Ds Max 9, textured and illuminated them correctly. But when I add the Daylighting system in Mental Ray and reduce the Aerial Perspective, to achieve a nice fogging effect, the particle mask, that were supposed to be invisible, shows up as it were "cutting" the fog making it look ugly. The result are the square billborads showing up with no fog rendered in the particle mask perimeter. I used many other similar materials such as Raytracing, Blend and even several Gradients, that didn't work.

I've no more ideas. Could you help me?

Awaiting your answer. You're my only hope.

Xatia

[bloodavenger9]

very interesting tut but mine didnt turn out quite right...
I followed every step until the creation of the cylinder. The image shows we are supposed to get a tunnel effect but all i see is a flat face of the cylinder, no matter the time frame...

I tried to turn it into a edit poly and reverse all the normals but then the render is very bright white with some spots of black...

Please helP!

[TomBurns]

Hi jussing:

Thank you SO much for taking the time to post and helping out others.

I am familiar with modeling static objects but dealing with particles and the Particle View window are totally - completely - new to me.

This is where my problem comes in and I know it's something laughably simple but for me, I have spent hours trying to find a solution without any luck. It has to do with the "cotton teapot" part of the tutorial.



How do I link the first event to the rest? (see attached screenshot)



I tried following 3DS Max's User Reference on wiring events but it uses a lot of technical gobbledegook and I am an art guy at the extreme low end of the technically-capable spectrum.

Can you or someone here please walk me through what I have done wrong? I promise not to spit up or cry too much.

Thanks so much in advance!

[jussing]

Tom, thanks a lot for the interest.

The answer is very simple - instead of dragging in the "Render" item seperately, drag in the item called "Empty flow". That will have the thingy in the bottom that you can connect to your Event.

Usually, when I create particle systems, I start out with dragging in a "Standard flow", and then go from there, deleting what I don't need.

Forgive me for not explaning these things very thoroughly, but due to the material covered in the tutorial I figured I'd better have to skim some parts.

Good luck,
- Jonas

[TomBurns]

Tom, thanks a lot for the interest.

The answer is very simple - instead of dragging in the "Render" item seperately, drag in the item called "Empty flow". That will have the thingy in the bottom that you can connect to your Event.

Usually, when I create particle systems, I start out with dragging in a "Standard flow", and then go from there, deleting what I don't need.

Forgive me for not explaning these things very thoroughly, but due to the material covered in the tutorial I figured I'd better have to skim some parts.

Good luck,
- Jonas

Thank you so much for your quick reply, Jonas.

I know that sometimes when someone makes a tutorial, they assume readers will have some knowledge on the subject and as such, the tutorial maker will skip basic steps.

Surprise! I have zero experience on this so I am figuring I may be in over my head on this subject.

But thank you again for responding. I will give your advice a try!

[jussing]

I'm a slight bit proud and a huge bit flattered that the tut is featured in 3dexport's list of 50 rendering tuts, features on CGSociety's front page. :)

http://www.3dexport.com/blog/2010/04/50-rendering-tutorials/

Thanks for the support,
- Jonas

[PsychoSilence]

nice one, well deserved :)

[Daniel-B]

Right on, Jonas.

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