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bukowskit
04-10-2003, 04:16 PM
Is it correct that gollum in LOTR 2 was modeled in Wings 3D and animated in Maya? I thought it was only Maya that had helped create him.

SheepFactory
04-10-2003, 04:21 PM
Mirai , not wings.


There are lots of threads that discuss this subject. Do a search.

Grgeon
04-10-2003, 04:24 PM
Actually, what I heard was, that Gollum was modeled in Mirai and animated in Maya. I would consider Wings3d as Mirai little nephew :)

Hope this helps,
George

P.S. Supervisor of Gollum modeling was Bay Raitt, Mirai extrodaneir
http://cube.phlatt.net/home/spiraloid/

bukowskit
04-10-2003, 04:35 PM
Thanks, i did a search and looked it up. Its exactly how you both have said, it was modelled in Mirai.

BadKarma
04-10-2003, 05:50 PM
maya?! really? oh dear i neva knew dat !

BadKarma

kamil_w
04-10-2003, 06:14 PM
Gollum was modeled and animated in Maya.

"...To create Gollum, who appears in about 270 shots (many alongside and interacting with live actors), the artists began by modeling the character in Maya..."

"...Gollum, who was modeled and animated in Maya, was challenging to create because he needed to have human-like characteristics, and because he had to share many scenes with human actors..."

Check this article @CGW

http://cgw.pennnet.com/Articles/Article_Display.cfm?Section=Archives&Subsection=Display&ARTICLE_ID=166809&KEYWORD=the%20two%20towers

gmask
04-10-2003, 06:19 PM
The facial expressions were modelled in Mirai but the body and original head were sculpted in clay, scanned and then modified in Maya.

GrafOrlok
04-10-2003, 08:33 PM
The facial expressions were modelled in Mirai but the body and original head were sculpted in clay, scanned and then modified in Maya.
Yes, scanning clay sculptures seams to be the way most CG characters in the LOTR series where created. And since Bay Raitt, who modeled the morph targets, has been engineering product specialist at Mirai for many years, this was naturaly his choice to create the blend shapes.

BadKarma
04-10-2003, 09:49 PM
like they say why learn sumthing new, when you already have the skills to get the job done... - well they dont... but it makes sence if they started to say it lol

BadKarma

stallion151
04-11-2003, 01:59 AM
in the cinefex magazine about LOTR 2, it also says that

"The Gollum facial model consisted of 675 sculpted expressions, with 9,000 sculpted muscle shapes. Individual sliders controlled sculpted shapes, giving animators the ability to cross-fade expressions in quadrants of the face, then apply individual muscle control...all of Gollum's lip-sync was key-frame animated. Raitt created a library of mouth shapes corresponding to phonemes and gave animators the ability to mix them with preset facial poses."


hows that for detail !!

KOBALT_KORE
04-11-2003, 02:25 AM
Gollum's not real?! :surprised
....
.....
.......

:p

stallion151
04-11-2003, 02:29 AM
:surprised

betty
04-11-2003, 03:09 AM
Raitt explains, "Gollum's head began as a cube on my screen. Using scan data I got from the [Weta] Workshop, and working back and forth with the animators and Randy Cook and Peter Jackson, I modeled his face, laid out the UV's [texture setup], and then delivered that puppet to the animators so they could get their shots done and out the door."

........

Raitt explains, "Jamie would do a bunch of sculptures, and we would talk about them, and I would suggest things that might not move very well. Back and forth, we would work. I would grab a sculpture off his desk, drag it back into our building...The guys in the modeling department would scan it, so we could have rough data for it...Then I would build a digital model of Gollum's face from a cube, and try to line it up to the scan as best as I could. Jamie would come and sit at my desk, and we would pull the model around, see how it moved, see what it looked like with the brows up, and when it was smiling. As we tested the design, Jamie would see, and say, 'Oh, we need to change this, and this.' Then he would run back to his desk, and sculpt the changes in clay. Back and forth, back and forth, until eventually Peter approved it."


http://mag.awn.com/index.php3?ltype=all&sort=date&article_no=1650&page=1

in the article bay raitt mentions mirai as his tool for digital sculpting

AnimBot
04-11-2003, 04:02 AM
You can find out more about Bay and Gollum on his forum.:D
http://cube.phlatt.net/forums/spiraloid/viewtopic.php?TopicID=493

RmachucaA
04-11-2003, 05:10 AM
thats so easy to do in XSI, all you need is time, but after all XSI\MAYA are very closely related..

i had heard they used XSI for something... is this wrong?

TumikSmacker
04-11-2003, 05:44 AM
WOW! So this 'clay' program must be really good, better then Maya? Where can I get this clay program? :p :p :p :rolleyes:

Goon
04-11-2003, 06:25 AM
Your outa luck. Check Rocket3d (www.rocket3d.com) for the page, but it is only v.9 so far and has only been released to a select group of beta testers. Martin Krol (Ambient-Whisper on CGtalk and elsewhere) uses it, check his recent gallery posting for a good example of a finished product.

KolbyJukes
04-11-2003, 09:34 AM
LOL! at TumikSmacker.

LOL! harder at Goon.

man, that gave me quite a chuckle.

-Kol.

Fluckrat
04-11-2003, 10:13 AM
Can a day go by when someone doesn't mention f&*king Gollum or LOTR. It's been and gone. Move on people...........

Sammy
04-11-2003, 03:12 PM
you folks might also be interested to know about the neat approach WETA used for modeling and animating Gollum - as well as many other characters.

Apparently they took a polysmoothed Gollum into ZBrush and painted in all his surface detail. What comes out the other end is pretty unbindable ... however, the solution is to create a WRAP deformer of the lowrez cage mesh OVER the 'messy' high definition ZBrush geometry ... a pretty awesome workflow if you ask me ...

-Sammy

Scandell
04-11-2003, 03:27 PM
I thought Gollum was some ugly actor dude from New Zealand named Andy Serkis.

Fingolfin
04-11-2003, 05:43 PM
Originally posted by Fluckrat
Can a day go by when someone doesn't mention f&*king Gollum or LOTR. It's been and gone. Move on people...........

I thought this was a CG forum. Isn't Gollum CG? It will never be gone. There is still one more movie coming out. People still talk about effects from T2, Abyss, Star Wars, etc. It's part of CG history now.

digital_red
04-11-2003, 09:34 PM
Originally posted by Scandell
I thought Gollum was some ugly actor dude from New Zealand named Andy Serkis.

actually hes from the UK :)

gmask
04-11-2003, 09:38 PM
Originally posted by Goon
Your outa luck. Check Rocket3d (www.rocket3d.com) for the page, but it is only v.9 so far and has only been released to a select group of beta testers.

Isn't that screen shot of the monkey head the model made in Blender?

gmask
04-11-2003, 09:41 PM
Originally posted by Sammy
Apparently they took a polysmoothed Gollum into ZBrush and painted in all his surface detail. What comes out the other end is pretty unbindable ... however, the solution is to create a WRAP deformer of the lowrez cage mesh OVER the 'messy' high definition ZBrush geometry ... a pretty awesome workflow if you ask me ...


Several of th earticles I have read about the project mention the use of displacement maps to preserve the high rez detail from the scanned models but I don't recall any mention of Zbrush being used and not in the way you are talking about? If you read something about this online can you post a link to it?

BadKarma
04-11-2003, 09:58 PM
yeah i would like to read dat too, coz im well confused... all these different techniques used... its blowing my mind ! lol

BadKarma

jschleifer
04-11-2003, 10:09 PM
Zbrush wasn't even really "out" when we were doing gollum's displacement maps. It's mentioned a few times that we actually take the scanned data (high resolution) & convert it into high resolution geometry, then build lower resolution geo & subtract the difference.. that's over simplifying it, but that basically gives us the start to the displacement map.

-jason

BadKarma
04-11-2003, 10:58 PM
oh dear i really should learn some bout 3d, as i didnt really understand a word of dat... shit...

better start learning i start uni in a few months lol - just waiting for an acceptance from a certain place... COME ON THE BOURNEMOUTH !

can someone wirte a quick answer to displacement maps too.. like what are they? i cant only model not texture grrrr.

BadKarma

gmask
04-11-2003, 11:03 PM
Originally posted by BadKarma
oh dear i really should learn some bout 3d, as i didnt really understand a word of dat... shit...

better start learning i start uni in a few months lol - just waiting for an acceptance from a certain place... COME ON THE BOURNEMOUTH !

can someone wirte a quick answer to displacement maps too.. like what are they? i cant only model not texture grrrr.

BadKarma

Displacement maps are like bump maps except that they actually transform the geometry. Using displacements can add a great amount of detail to a model without actually having to model it or without having to manipulate that extra information during animation and thus putting the burden on the renderer. The down side is that this extra burden on the renderer will take longer to render and use more resources. Displacements can alo create artifacts like "cracking" with nurbs patch models but as Sub-d become more common it is less of an issue.

BadKarma
04-11-2003, 11:29 PM
oh i c soo... you can maybe use them for say animating facial movements for like smiles etc? - or are they not tha complex?

BadKarma

gmask
04-11-2003, 11:33 PM
Originally posted by BadKarma
oh i c soo... you can maybe use them for say animating facial movements for like smiles etc? - or are they not tha complex?

BadKarma

You usually wouldn't use them for something like although I suppose it would be possible. Generally it is best for detail .. although for some special effects a displacement could be animated. IE you could use an animated displacement map to have a face push through a wall or soemthing similair to that.

nemirc
04-11-2003, 11:35 PM
The complete process on how they developed Gollum can be found in Cinefex number 92.

They made a clay model (a big one) and scaned that (textures and stuff included) then they Rigged the character in Maya.
The face morphs was a little more complicated...

Get the magazine if you get a chance. :applause:

gmask
04-11-2003, 11:40 PM
Originally posted by nemirc
The complete process on how they developed Gollum can be found in Cinefex number 92.


I found the CineFex article to be a little vague in areas about how and what was used although I do recall that Mirai was actually mentioned.

BadKarma
04-11-2003, 11:53 PM
cheers again gmask, uve helped me understand quite a bit.

btw did you read that artical online? if so can you share the link as i cant seem to get cinefex in england. iam gunna try n get a subscription tho it seems like a damn good mag.

Cheers

BadKarma

nemirc
04-12-2003, 12:18 AM
Originally posted by gmask
I found the CineFex article to be a little vague in areas about how and what was used although I do recall that Mirai was actually mentioned.

I got lost when they explained how they made the "skin texture" using an homogeneous layer as they do in Weta Workshop...
But... well... They are not magicians and Cinefex is not some sort of "Breaking the Secret Pipeline and R&D code"...

nemirc
04-12-2003, 12:23 AM
Originally posted by BadKarma
cheers again gmask, uve helped me understand quite a bit.

btw did you read that artical online? if so can you share the link as i cant seem to get cinefex in england. iam gunna try n get a subscription tho it seems like a damn good mag.

Cheers

BadKarma

I forgot to answer this one.
There is no "online article". You'll have to buy the magazine

gmask
04-12-2003, 12:24 AM
Originally posted by nemirc
I got lost when they explained how they made the "skin texture" using an homogeneous layer as they do in Weta Workshop...
But... well... They are not magicians and Cinefex is not some sort of "Breaking the Secret Pipeline and R&D code"...

That's exactly one of the sections I was thinking of.. obviously they used Renderman to write the shaders but it's not mentioned in the article.
I think what they meant by homogenous is that the shading is only one layer. The translucency of skin is due to the many layers of skin and blood vessels and then muscle tissue and bone underneath. To model all that and use it in rendering is prohibitive for many reasons. Not to play down the difficulty of writing shaders in Renderman but they make it sound more mysterious than it is and I don't think there is anything to be secretive about when it comes to renderman except that they aren't going to give away that shader.

gmask
04-12-2003, 12:26 AM
Originally posted by nemirc
I forgot to answer this one.
There is no "online article". You'll have to buy the magazine

I meant the other various online articles about the movie by other authors not the one by Cinefex. There should be som elinks to them in the other threads on this subject here somewhere.

Viekoslav
04-12-2003, 12:27 AM
Originally posted by Scandell
I thought Gollum was some ugly actor dude from New Zealand named Andy Serkis.

TOO FUNNY!:thumbsup:

BadKarma
04-12-2003, 01:15 AM
oic dont worry then i will see if i can get it back issued and sent to england lol

Gmask + nemirc, thanx peeps.

BadKarma

erik2003
04-12-2003, 05:45 PM
Is there any possibility of doing some trial or demo of this Mirai stuff? It keeps popping up everywhere, i'd like to see what it;s like...

BTW. i just found a new version of the 'Clay' software in the local art supplies shop. Apparently it comes as a huge brick-shaped mass of brown stuff... lol

BadKarma
04-12-2003, 06:06 PM
ive had a lil look for you fella... and i dont *think* that you can get a trial of Mirai sorry fella.

"huge brick-shaped mass of brown stuff" hahaha Joka !

BadKarma

Goon
04-12-2003, 06:16 PM
Doh!

Didnt catch the sarcasm there. And i saw pics of those sculptures too.

ambient-whisper
04-20-2003, 12:36 AM
:) silly. heh.
( btw. clay3d is only 0.2 not 0.9 ;)

Dan Wade
07-13-2003, 02:25 AM
BadKarma, r u doing the Bournemouth BA or MA course?

ambient-whisper
07-13-2003, 02:38 AM
oo sweet. someone resurrected this thread, so im gonna ask here since it seems appropriate.

does anyone got a pic of gollums wire? id love to see how dense the mesh is. theres the art of TTT but i dont want to buy a book for just a wire shot.

FloydBishop
07-13-2003, 03:48 AM
If Gollum ever has a cousin in one of the Lord of the Rings films, here's my vote for the actor who should play him:

http://myhome.shinbiro.com/~luiese/poster/mr-bean.jpg

FabioMSilva
07-13-2003, 01:51 PM
lol KOBALT_KORE "gollumīs not real?"

and to awnser your other question:

"Si e deyado en libertado los prisioneros y ahora vengo por ti" :P

Monkey island rulez:beer:

gmask
07-13-2003, 05:42 PM
Originally posted by Floyd Bishop
If Gollum ever has a cousin in one of the Lord of the Rings films, here's my vote for the actor who should play him:

http://myhome.shinbiro.com/~luiese/poster/mr-bean.jpg

They're saving Rowan for the Lord of the Loons series

ray
07-13-2003, 08:55 PM
Originally posted by ambient-whisper
oo sweet. someone resurrected this thread, so im gonna ask here since it seems appropriate.

does anyone got a pic of gollums wire? id love to see how dense the mesh is. theres the art of TTT but i dont want to buy a book for just a wire shot.

This one I found on my hd, don't remember from where it is though: http://www.claus-figuren.de/bb/goll.jpg
_quite_ dense:surprised

ambient-whisper
07-13-2003, 09:37 PM
sweet thanks! :)

ceql
07-14-2003, 03:55 AM
Wow! ray, thanks for that! :beer:

DJ-Wood
07-14-2003, 05:26 PM
Uh, everyone, I think you'll find Gollum was created using 'Poser'.

;)

nemirc
07-14-2003, 05:58 PM
Originally posted by DJ-Wood
Uh, everyone, I think you'll find Gollum was created using 'Poser'.

;)

I remember reading something on Curious Labs' Poser website about "Poser brings to life The Two Towers" :applause:
Nevertheless, I misplaced the link :cry:

gmask
07-14-2003, 06:23 PM
Originally posted by nemirc
I remember reading something on Curious Labs' Poser website about "Poser brings to life The Two Towers" :applause:
Nevertheless, I misplaced the link :cry:


It seems like Poser gets used alot for Pre-viz and geometry for crowd scenes.

nemirc
07-14-2003, 06:28 PM
Originally posted by gmask
It seems like Poser gets used alot for Pre-viz and geometry for crowd scenes.

I remember seeing the previz for AI and it was done with posermen. :rolleyes:

Neil
07-14-2003, 07:10 PM
God, this again.
Hmm i wonder if any of the old FF threads are still resurrectable? Too bad Matrix thread is dead, that would have been fun to resurrect.

jschleifer
07-14-2003, 11:22 PM
Originally posted by nemirc
I remember reading something on Curious Labs' Poser website about "Poser brings to life The Two Towers" :applause:
Nevertheless, I misplaced the link :cry:

LOL!

urh.. yeah... yep, and we used bryce for all the backgrounds, infini-D for the character animation, windows paint for texturing, an old IBM typewriter for the coding, and we copied the data back and forth between the computers on 5 1/4 inch floppy disks!

thank god for my commodore 64, or none of the characters would have ever been rigged!

gmask
07-14-2003, 11:36 PM
Originally posted by jschleifer
LOL!

urh.. yeah... yep, and we used bryce for all the backgrounds, infini-D for the character animation, windows paint for texturing, an old IBM typewriter for the coding, and we copied the data back and forth between the computers on 5 1/4 inch floppy disks!

thank god for my commodore 64, or none of the characters would have ever been rigged!

Did you guys manage to use a Vic 20 or Sinclaire in there some where as well? I got a bunch of Mac pluses in the garage maybe you could add them to the renderfarm at Weta;-)

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