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GruvDOne
10-19-2007, 08:20 PM
Ok, so MoGraph is very cool when what you want to do is random and abstract, but getting it to do calculated, intentional effects is proving to be beyond frustrating. What I want to do is so mind-bogglingly simple, and yet, I cannot make it happen.

So, I have some text that needs to resemble a marquee sign. No problem.. I made splines, and several cloners of little spheres with a luminant material across them. Looks good. In this state, all the lights on the sign appear 'on'.

Now, I wish to make the marquee do what marquees do. Chase effects, having the 'lights 'flash on and off in patterns and such.

In my first version, instead of spheres with luminant material, I used little visible lights. With the lights, I could easily achieve the look I wanted with a Formula Effector. Looked great, but because I was dealing with a very large number of visible lights, my render times were waaay out of control.

So, I switched it to spheres with said luminent material on them, and now I cannot make them change in appearance at all. I can effect P,R, & S no problem, but nothing else.

I even tried a Shader Effector and pointed it to the Luminance Channel of my Texture Tag, to no avail.

So, wtf do I have to do to achieve what should be a no-brainer, simple effect like this?

Thanks,
Will

JeremyW
10-19-2007, 08:49 PM
How about something like this?

Per-Anders
10-19-2007, 08:51 PM
The MoGraph shader should work fine in the luminance channel (same as working on the lights if all your'e doing is modifying the lights colors), do you have an example scene that you can share?

You can also simply modify the clone instead of the lights, and have an on/off state for your spehres (i.e. one sphere with an on texture, one with an off).

GruvDOne
10-19-2007, 09:11 PM
Well, I can't post the file, as it has copyrighted logos and whatnot. I can post a small section of the marquee though.

I hadn't considered using Scale, and I will give that a go, I was focused instead on luminance color.

JeremyW
10-20-2007, 12:21 AM
I hadn't considered using Scale, and I will give that a go, I was focused instead on luminance color.

Ah, and it is there, Grasshopper, that you frustrate yourself. We must strive to achieve oneness with all possible solutions, so that we may thusly arrive at our destination, unencumbered by the myriad suchness that is not our goal. Focus not on the stones of your path on which you stub your toe. Rather, set your sights on the goal, and the goal only. If luminance does not shed light on your goal, tarry not, but let the next possibility woo your attention.

Ah-men.

Per-Anders
10-20-2007, 01:24 AM
Whatever you use should be irrelevant. It's the same algorithm for each thing, scale, color, clone index (modify clone), time offset etc. I'm afraid that without looking at the file itself there's no way of knowing what the problem is in your file.

The standard methods of doing what you want involve using time effectors on the u/v parameters, animating a single bulb and using step effectors to modify the time offset, using time effectors to modify clone with different states of the object (i.e. two spheres one with a luminous material, one without in the cloner) and using effectors to modify clone, then there's using effectors to modify color and using the mograph shader in the luminosity channel of a material applied to the objects.... there's a lot of ways of doing this, and things that could go wrong vary from setting the mograph shader to the wrong mode, grouping objects inside of other objects in the cloner and expecting the color to pass up correctly when the parent might be a type of cloner that kills tags on the children (better to use the cluster mode in the cloner and switch off "Fix clone" if you need to move the object around from the base without using the numerical controls under the transform tab), placing the texture on the wrong object and so on, there can even be bugs that might need to be fixed...

GruvDOne
10-22-2007, 12:31 AM
Thanks for that Per. I think I understand what you mean, but in order to kind of fill in my gaps in information, I have stripped the file down to only 3 letters, basic materials, 1 light.

I am interested to see what it is I have missed.

Thanks in advance.

Per-Anders
10-22-2007, 01:42 AM
Your scene seems fine here, obviously you've taken out all Effectors and have no MoGraph Color Shaders in there, and for some reason you've got your Light and Glass spheres in a Null inside of each cloner (any reason for this rather than just setting the clones mode to Cluster?). For optimization you might consider reducing the ray depth in your scene down to just 3, raising the AA threshold slightly to 12%, and if it's for animation using "Animation" filter rather than Sinc because Sinc is slower and can lead to flicker (though it looks great for stills).

Anyhow, to make the light spheres take up the color of the MoGraph particles go to the "Light" material and in the luminance channel add a Layers shader, we do this as you've already got a Fresnel shader in there and don't want to loose that. Then edit the Layers shader and add a new MoGraph->Color Shader in there, set it's blending mode from "Normal" to "Screen" (or if you prefer to "Multiply" if you like the fresnel look for more than just the unlit). And that's it.

All it takes is to add the MoGraph Color Shader in there (wherever you need) and it will pick up the color of the MoGraph Particles. Don't forget that you've set up your cloners to have a default color of mid grey, so for their off state you probably want to select them all and in the transform tab set the default color to black, then let Effectors do the work of changing their colors in a procedural way.

GruvDOne
10-22-2007, 02:40 AM
and for some reason you've got your Light and Glass spheres in a Null inside of each cloner (any reason for this rather than just setting the clones mode to Cluster?)

No, other than me just not remembering the Cloners can do that ;)

I am test-rendering now, your suggestions worked well, of course, and I thank you for that.

Per-Anders
10-22-2007, 03:14 AM
Oh, one other thing that you might want to do is set the "Use Color" to "Always" under the "Basic" tab on the Cloners that way you can see the actual color of the MoGraph particles on the clones in viewport even if they have materials on them (which will make the job easier).

GruvDOne
10-22-2007, 03:28 AM
Oh, one other thing that you might want to do is set the "Use Color" to "Always" under the "Basic" tab on the Cloners that way you can see the actual color of the MoGraph particles on the clones in viewport even if they have materials on them (which will make the job easier).


Fantastic idea, I was kinda lamenting that I had to render to see what was going on... this will save me time.

Thanks Again.


*edit* hmmm well, I did just try that setting, but the colors in the viewport do not seem to change as the Effectors pass over them. I tried both with and without EOGL.

Per-Anders
10-22-2007, 03:43 AM
It looks like of all things this may not work with the Cluster mode (it works with all the other modes). It's been reported.

Per-Anders
10-22-2007, 03:44 AM
It looks like of all things "Use Color" set to "Always" may not work with the Cluster mode (it works with all the other modes). It's been reported.

GruvDOne
10-22-2007, 05:26 AM
It looks like of all things "Use Color" set to "Always" may not work with the Cluster mode (it works with all the other modes). It's been reported.


Cool, good to know I am not crazy ;). Maybe, whilst setting up the animation, I'll disable the glass spheres, and set the cloners back to iterate. I'll just use Selection Objects to make those changes easy.

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