Mini Challenge - Station hall

[Timmay]

excellent.
been looking for some HD footage to play with.

what camera did you buy?

[killermachine]

thnx for the effort im really new to matte painting and wanted to see if it was possible for me to do it.hav you thot of any deadline for it?

[everlite]

killermachine:

No real deadline for this one, though i'll be removing the footage in a week or so to prevent my bandwidth from dying.

Timmay:
The panasonic hdc-sd5, i was on a budget, but i'm quite surprised by the quality of the little thing. goes quite nicely up to 1920x1080.
http://www.panasonic.co.uk/news/sd5.html

[Suirebit]

Just painting eh? tough one :D

[everlite]

Yep, thinking from a traditional approach. It's a challenge :)

[CodeNothing]

hmmm.... I'd take a stab at this but I have no video compositing software. :( maybe I'll make a matte to replace the ceiling and someone else might composite it for me. Hmmmm......

[everlite]

Go on then, you've twisted my arm :) if you make it REALLY good i'll comp it back in :)

[CodeNothing]

well heres my first pass. I still gotta go back and paint in all the details, but I kinda like how it turned out so far. :)

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/9247/stationcopy01wz7.jpg

[everlite]

Ok m'man, know you're killing me :) please do continue :)

[everlite]

This was my first pass the other day:

http://www.capturefx.co.uk/web/station_pass1.jpg

[RQuack]

Looks really good guys, nice work! Ok, here's a real rough sketch but hopefully the idea is solid enough. I love Al whitlock's painting of that giant painted ballroom celing so think that's what I'm going to try to go for but a little more modern. Thanks for doing this Dave. :)

http://img484.imageshack.us/img484/406/stationframetr1.png

[eyecon]

WOW great work here guys! I wish I had time to join! Dang! the only free time I have is the week after next! Hopefully by that time I wont be that late!

[everlite]

Looking nice ryan, almost reminds me of a building underwater, like atlantis or something. Keep it coming :)

- Dave.

[Suirebit]

can we take out the people? :D

[MrWilde]

Here's my poor attempt. Don't know if I get the time to do more though.

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/8919/stationframetestnf0.jpg

[everlite]

Wilde:

Nice idea, you should develope this further, refine the edges a little and add more to the cityscape. Has really good potential this one :)

Suirebit:

Now why would you want to remove my nice little people? :) tut tut :) It's an open ball game my friend, do as you wish, only rule, JUST paint :)

[Rockhoppermedia]

http://pic70.picturetrail.com/VOL1800/9894759/17882961/284445678.jpg


This is my quick attempt, and i mean quick, i have always wanted to do a scene out of 1984, loads more work to do. I want to get a grey and grungy utilitarian look.

Cheers for finding something to do whilst get thrashed at rugby , drawing graphics is a pig

Richard:)

[nickmarshallvfx]

Great stuff Dave, we can always count on your for something interesting and cahllenging! :)
Ill see what I can come up with.

Nick

p.s. adam those values are incredible! Nice work :thumbsup: Everybodys painting has been strong actually so far. Set a high bar there guys ;)

[everlite]

Hey Richard, keep it coming, and did you paint them letters uh?? :) Golden rule, must be paint ... though i'm sure we can make a small exception with type, that would be a real pain in the butt i guess :)

Nick: Can't wait to see what you have in store.

- Dave.

[Rockhoppermedia]

Course I didnt paint them letters, I put them in quickly to show you my intent ha ha. I am actually trying to paint the letters freehand at the mo, that is what i meant. Sorry if I mislead you. Everything else is paint.

wait out for more to follow

PS

Glass stops about 1/3 of light, so would it be acceptable for the sky to be brighter through a open window. I have to account for that to get a correct exposure in architectural photography. Does it apply also in mattes?

Rich

[everlite]

Rich:

Hehe :) no worries mate, text would be a pain in the butt to paint by hand, feel free to bend the rules on that one :)

Regarding the light issue, i'm no expert but if you take a bog roll, close one eye and look through everything seems to be brighter, something to do with the focus of light. But then glass does slow down light, though i don't think it would be that great given the thickness. hmmm, not too sure.

I think one thing it will do is bleed into any silhouettes of buildings outside.

- Dave

[CodeNothing]

small update from me. only had time to work on the first statue today, and i was swamped over the weekend.


http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/9548/stationcopy02ox4.jpg

[everlite]

Hey that's looking pretty great, don't tie yourself into one area though, it's easy to lose the bigger picture :) can't wait to see this when it's finished, take your time.

[CodeNothing]

found a little time to work on the palm trees. IM SOOOO tempted to just cut out real ones. But these are all hand painted. LOL. forgive the white blob behind them. I put it there on a layer so the old rough palm trees didnt distract me.

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/9675/stationcopy03lr4.jpg

[nickmarshallvfx]

Wow! That is one heck of a hand painted palm trees Adam!!

Can we see a full crop to see how these are fitting into the composition? It appears you may have to blur some of the detail to match the quality of the plate, but we shall see...

Awesome work buddy! :thumbsup:

Nick

[bobzilla]

Wow! This little challenge is looking great. I love the idea of just painting with no photos. Evryone is doing such a great job.

I'm just observing. Don't have the chops to actually participate, but enjoying the view...

[CodeNothing]

heres a full shot of the progress so far. The palm trees are gona be behind the railing, behind the white sign, etc..... and I'll probably need to add some sparks of bright highlight where the sun is hitting the directly. I started some rough work on the second statue too.

As for the level of detail. Im currently working at 150% the size of the original plate. I also wanted to get as much detail in as possible. I figure its easy to knock detail down, but it sucks if its not there to begin with. Im hoping we can run some sort of compression over this so we can match up with the original plate well.

http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/6519/stationcopy04ih3.jpg

[Rockhoppermedia]

Mr Dave Everlite,


I bet your ears are burning this morning, i have found a way of incorporating the matte into the footage. It looks great, but someone did not film with a locked of camera did they.

I dont have after effects so i can not match move the (steadicam LOL) shot you took. I was nearly in tears. Anyhow it looks alright on the still image. I nearly had something for my showreel then. Next time you do one can you please use a locked off camera.

Cheers Rich

CS3x means you paint over avi file, awesome. Especially with a locked off and bubbled camera.:scream:

[everlite]

Mr Dave Everlite,


I bet your ears are burning this morning, i have found a way of incorporating the matte into the footage. It looks great, but someone did not film with a locked of camera did they.

I dont have after effects so i can not match move the (steadicam LOL) shot you took. I was nearly in tears. Anyhow it looks alright on the still image. I nearly had something for my showreel then. Next time you do one can you please use a locked off camera.

Cheers Rich

CS3x means you paint over avi file, awesome. Especially with a locked off and bubbled camera.:scream:



Hey, what can i say m'man, these tools that i have to work with! sheesh :) upload a good res and i'll see if i can comp in to the final footage for ya :)

- Dave

[Rockhoppermedia]

Cheers mate, I will tidy it up and check the matte will fit the scene ie no walking people dropping out cos of over paint, how large a file can you cope with and what format?

Cheers

Rich:thumbsup:

[everlite]

Post up a preview here, at say 1000 px max, once ok'd use yousendit.com to forward a layered psd at 2k size, tidy up the layers with no more than 4-5 or so, i think yousentit has a limit of 100mb.

Give me a few days, i'm a little stack with deadlines at the mo :)

- Dave.

[Rockhoppermedia]

know how you feel mate, working on a project with riktor at the mo, i have to do a portrait for a tv channel as well, it soon builds up.

cheers

rich

[kbarts]

Wow. Another challenge. Great ide: just paint. It is for me. ha-ha.
I will star to paint on the next half of this week:)
Nice painting guys!

edit: i can only make single frame. i do not have any experience in animation and i do not have software for it...

[Inlakechh]

Great thread.
Let me throw in a quick sketch.
I don't know if I'm going to have time to go on with this.


http://marcobauriedel.com/cgtalk/station_frame_sketch.jpg

[everlite]

kbarts:

No worries mate, a single frames fine.

Inlakechh:

Looking very interesting, though take into account where the light falls, you might need to obscure a few windows/openings some how to get a little shadow casting.

[Rockhoppermedia]

Is that leeds train station by the way? I know this becuse no one is smiling, Marco interesting concept.


PS CS3X i am off soon with a video camera from work to film the local high street just so i can have live action in a matte as PS CS3X lets you add it to a video layer. Problem is tracking but i will work that out.

See you all

Rich

[everlite]

Well spotted Richard, though unfortuntly no prize for guessing :)

With PS, if you can import video, can you then export it back out as a video file?

- Dave.

[Timmay]

Yup you can. Or as an image sequence.

Just go to File>Export>Render Video

A dialogue pops up to change your settings.

[everlite]

Hmm, that's interesting, never really looked into the video side of PS. All they need now is a tracker, though i guess that'll never happen. What use is video in photoshop? Doesn't seem to be much you can do with it.

D.

[Timmay]

Well it isnt AE. But.....you can clone over multiple frames, animate layers (clouds, etc). Bascially if you have a simple matte with or without video you can create your entire matte in PS animation wise w/out going to AE or a comp program.

[everlite]

So you can keyframe layer position? can you key the scale and rotation? I guess you could do a manual track, if thats the case, hmmm interesting. I wonder if any plugins will come out to extend the video side of PS. That said it'll never be AE but for those without it could be a good option to inhance mattes.

[Timmay]

yup

you can keyframe anything you change i think

[everlite]

No, i've just tried, you can only key the position. Just like adobe to be crafty :) though you can key the opacity and styles.

[Matellis]

Hey guys :D

I have been lurking in this thread for a bit so I thought I would take a stab at doing a little quick concepting over the plate. I probably wont be doing anymore to this since I am working hard on the Strange Behavior Challenge. But this was a nice way for me to give my eyes a break on the other painting :D

Cheers!

http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/1981/stationframemattbf0.jpg

[nickmarshallvfx]

Matt! Its been ages since Ive seen you post on any forums!
What have you been doing with yourself recently? You probably just finished watching all those Gnomon dvds right? ;)

Anyway, the concept looks fantastic, I wish Leeds station were really so bright when im stuck there after missing my train...

Nick

[Matellis]

Hey Nick,

Yeah I havent been posting a whole lot the last while , lots of personal stuff going on, thou I post a bit in the strange behavior section. I am working on a painting for that challenge. link (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=225&t=510753)

But once this painting is done I will be going hot and heavy into the matte painting again :D

Thanks for the comment on the concept, I had fun playing with the plate.

So hows everything going with you?

Cheers!

[nickmarshallvfx]

The painting is looking great, congrats!

Well, as for me, Im carrying on with the matte painting. I think Im making a lot of progress and Ive got a couple of shots that Im pretty happy with that are close to completion. Im just starting looking for an internship too in London with some of the VFX studios. Difficult to get in there though :S

Nick

[everlite]

So is this one dead in the water? :)

[Rockhoppermedia]

No dave, as i am constantly broke i am trying to work out how to do a layer effect in carrara 2 so I can do a z depth move into the station, I might have to borrow after effects of someone as carrara 2 sucks, big time. I have even made a studio in carrara, but when i go to render it crashes. If daz studio 2 could do a multiplane camera move using alpha channels I would be happy.


So this subject has not been forgotten I am just experimenting with solving this problem. If I can do a multiplane in daz studio i will be selling the model and studio scene through DAZ 3D and make money then I can afford Maya and them I can afford After effects and Premier.

Matte painting is not cheap

See ya mate

Rich

PS i meant the template design not your photo scene

[everlite]

No worries mate :)

Serious piece of advice, investigate Blender, it's a very powerful tool, imo far more powerful than carrara and most other programs on the market. I've been using Max for eight years now and i still praise and recommend Blender to everyone i know, it truely is a dark horse and with the latest release packing in SSS, fluid syms, dynamics, cloth, fur, ambient occlusion, a full node based composition suite built in and much more.

Oh and for the matte painters out there, some great projection tools :)

- Dave.

[Rockhoppermedia]

I have blender, I think i am the only person in the world who cannot operate it, it has fantastic tools im sure. I think you need to be a fourth dan wizard, and only in the hours of the eclipse and the moon in ascension can you get the damn thing to work.

I am not 3d trained and the learning curve on blender is ridiculousy steep. The only matte painting tutorial on it is presented by beavis and butthead on speed and i could not follow it.

It has been sat on my desktop I call it hr swear icon as every time i try and play it makes me swear.

For something so powerful it is not exactly user friendly

Im sorry to sound so negative Dave but it has cheesed me off plenty of times. What i really want for xmas Santa is After Effects CS3. Google Video Copilot to see what i mean ,

Rich

PS Santa in windows format cheers, help yourself to a mince pie

[RiKToR]

Not dead to me... just had a few minutes to check it out. Question though. If I follow the rules using only paint for the set extension can I use 3d and compositing techniques for the final composite if I do one?

[everlite]

Hey Rich,

Yeh i'm very familiar with Mr Kramer and his little website of goodies :) Check out his latest planet tutorials, very cool.

How you feel about Blender is exactly how i felt about it a few years ago. Granted the interface is the biggest issue to get over, though not for much longer, this will soon be a thing of the past. The next release will see the interface completely redesigned! When you get over this though it genuinely is a powerful program that could have many benefits.

I'm guessing there's little chance of convincing you but i can try all the same :)

If you do give it another go there's one thing that must be done, only takes a few seconds but makes it so much easier to use. A few settings that need changing after installation to sort out the navigation, i made a short video a while back that shows the process:

http://www.capturefx.co.uk/web/blender_nav_setup.rar (45mb)

- Dave.

[everlite]

Hi Cliff,

No the original idea was just a 2d background replacement :) brushing up on the old painting skills :)

- Dave

[RiKToR]

Everlite, I understand brushing up on the painting skills, and heck I will just paint extension. But I do see some fun stuff floating in an open sky with there shadows cast on the reflective floor. This of course would not be in the painting but I generally am the type of guy that cant do a shot that will never see the final film polish.

[Rockhoppermedia]

I will watch your tutorial tonight, before spooks and a cup of hot chocolate. I am glad blender wil get a new ui.


I would like to change the UI to a pseudo after effects fixed permantly in 3d with the camera filming a multiplane, is that hard to do?

Thank you for your help so far

Rich

Much appreciated.

[everlite]

Cliff:

Feel free :) if it can be painted then use paint, if 3d is the only way to go, then use 3d :) no rules really.

Rich:

You lost me a little, sounds like you're talking about two different things? is that right? The UI is designed to be dragged around however you feel, for people used to Max you can even make it look like a Max UI, then when you're happy just hit CTRL + U to save the UI.

Regarding the part about multiplanes, do you mean having a camera setup in 3d pointing towards a number of planes to give the impression of depth?

If you get a moment have a look at the camera mapping video tutorial over at:

http://www.peerlessproductions.com/tuts.html (half way down)

Also have a look at the UV projection video at:

http://www.blender.org/features-gallery/features/feature-videos/ (effectively camera projection)

Between them two you can see how easily a matte painting can be brought to life with Blender.

- Dave.

[Rockhoppermedia]

I downloaded the combustion free trial from autodesk yesterday. I mixed the live action plate with the matte painting using the tracking data. It was the first time i managed to see live action with a painting. It was very crudely done, but i was bouncing round the flat like a kid with a new toy. It has relit the joy of matte painting for me.


Thank you dave for taking the time to do the live action plate. Now to find more footage

Thank you

Rich.

[Rockhoppermedia]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5ZmGVVPOgA I am doing some RD into integrating a matte paint into moving footage. I have got hold of some footage which is on a public non commercial license from the 1930s. The footage is extremely low res and degraded. I wanted to do a subtle matte so that I could practice before getting onto the station hall. I thought i would share my research, i am not ashamed to say it is not my strongest but we have to start some where.

Many regards

Rich

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