Sketchbook Thread of jtico

[jtico]

As you can see, I'm trying to make a human head. Below is my last attemp. I'm still trying to get the right proportions. I know there are many mistakes in the model, but to me they are hard to find. It would be great if you can point me some of them. Thanks in advance.

http://img123.imageshack.us/img123/633/facetest2kn5.jpg

[NR43]

Hi and welcome

There are several excellent sculptors around. Check out the sb threads of anandpg, Intervain, Spiritdreamer, and many more.

can you post an image where the head is completely visible please? That way it will be easier to judge the proportions.

[DivineRAiN]

there's a body topology thread in the Maya section, but people post their WIP's if they're using Maya or not. The thread gets into anatomy, proportions, along with topology.
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=7&t=108412
The lower left eyelid of your model has a weird upward curve that happens too soon...the vertices there could be pulled down to give it one curve until it meets the outter corner. I agree with NR, post some screenshots where the whole head is visible.

[jtico]

Johan: Thanks for the welcome :)

I agree with you that here at CGTalk there are very good sculptors. To me, the Artistic Anatomy and Figurative Art and the Personal Anatomy & Sketchbook Threads are something like fountains of inspiration. There is a lot of information here for people like me, who want to learn about modeling, proportion, etc.

I realize that in my last post I was trying to hide more than to show. I hadn't finish the ear of the model. Sorry about that.

DivineRAiN: Thank you for the link. (Yet another place to gather information :)). It's a long thread and I'll have to look at it more carefully. I have to say that in this wip I'm not taking into account the topology. In this regard I'm pushing Mr. Stahlberg ideas a little further. I'm putting vertices and edges there to shape the model. Once I get the right proportions I'll start it all over again, paying special attention to the topology (ok. I try to avoid triangles and pentagons but if they appear, bad look)

It took me more than one our to "model" the ear (and I failed), but here are complete renders of the head. I also adjusted the lower eyelid as suggested by DivineRAiN.I think that more work has to be done on the eyelids.

Thanks for your comments.

http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/5558/facetest3hv4.jpg
http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/3205/facetest4rl0.jpg

[jtico]

http://img360.imageshack.us/img360/153/facetest5wy3.jpg

[Auria]

:)! your model looks good :D looking forward to seeing it progress. the only thing id say right now is the mid part of the nose, the nostril center part, theres a name for it i know there is, but for now we're going for descriptive words! lol! that part usually comes down just a tidbit further than the nostril sides and curves convexly instead of concave :) i think that will help a lot :D

[Intervain]

Hi jtico :)

glad to see you going for a human head - not easy for sure!

I've taken the liberty of drawing over your images - hope you don't mind :)





hope it's clear :) Really good job so far - you're making typical mistakes which all of us who start with 3d go through and which are easy to correct :) Keep it up :thumbsup:

[jtico]

Abbey: Thanks for your comments. I think you are talking about the small deformation the nasal bone makes on the bridge of the nose. hehe that's something I have to fix :).

Magdalena: I agree with you, it's not an ease task.
...snip I've taken the liberty of drawing over your images - hope you don't mind :) snip...
On the contrary I'm more than glad you took the time to show me the mistakes I'm doing. Your sugestion may save me months of trial and error. Thanks for your comments.

Thanks for your help.

[jtico]

Regretfully I can't post more regularly :sad: . In this sketch, I pushed the eyes backwards and made the eyeballs smaller. I think it looks better now. C&C are welcomed :)

http://img468.imageshack.us/img468/3036/facetest6va7.jpg

[muttonman222]

Hi jtico

Remember to keep in facial muscles in mind when building the model topology especially around the mouth andn eyes. Try to work on the major structural foundation more before adding details to the ears and eyes. Grab an anatomy book and look closely at the skull bones around the eyes, cheek and jaw. Keep up the good work.

[SpiritDreamer]

Hi ...Alberto ..:)

Nice job so far :thumbsup:

A good book that you might want to check out if you can, is DRAWING THE HUMAN HEAD by BURNE HOGARTH,..it can be found on the internet.
He has a great way of creating the forms as a sculptor does.
As was already stated, ...don't sub devide until you have all of the underlying bone and muscle structure in place first...Take advantage of those facets to creat the forms first, then you won't have to backtrack to create them,...they will already be there...:)
The surface of the planes that make up the face and head are key to getting a good head...you want to block them all in first, just as you do in a painting, or drawing...Check out that book...it shows you all of the surface planes, and how they are seen and described from all the different viewing angles...will really help make your task a lot easier, for sure..:)
Really looking forward to seeing more of your work, and progress..:thumbsup:
TAKE CARE
Glenn

[jtico]

Glenn, I took your advice seriously, went to the bookshop and bought the Hogarth's book. Now I understand better what you was talking about. It looks like the book will be very useful :wip: . Thanks for your recommendation.


This is a little update. I took the advise of Ron and tweaked a little bit the cheek and the lips. What do you think?

http://img157.imageshack.us/img157/5594/picture1nr5.jpg

Thank you very much for your comments and encouragement.

[Intervain]

the overall shape's looking much better indeed [though it'd be nice to see the shaded version as well because the wire doesn't show stuff all that well]! Like muttonman222 said however, it's a good idea to pay attention to the topology as well as the shape itself :) I drew some stuff you have to keep in mind... hope it's ok :)

http://mdadela.com/gallery/help.jpg

remember - 3 lines coming out of:
- the corners of the eye
- the corners of the mouth

and circles [following the real musculature]:

- around the eyes
- around the mouth

keep it up :):thumbsup:

[jtico]

Magdalena, thanks for your comment. I will change the topology to better conform to the anatomy. Your paint over is very clear. (By the way, feel free to do it whenever you want, as I came here to learn). And thanks again, I really appreciate it.

[jtico]

Now that Gimp 2.4 is out it's easear to blend colors :D


http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/7299/gimpfaceid2.jpg

[NR43]

Hey I didn't know GIMP 2.4 was out
Thanks for that :)

btw, how's the brush engine going? any improvements? I used to have loads of lag when using custom brushes as soon as I went above 100px size

[jtico]

Hi Johan. May be at the time of this answer, you have already tested the update. The lag for brushes with size of 100 px or above is still there. I have found that the devs did I nice job enhancing the blending tools (blur, smudge and burn). There are other small improvements. I think, the update is great :) .

[jtico]

I started from zero because I changed the way of doing the eyes and to make a better topology. It took me some time to have reasonable edge loops. Still have to work on the eyelids, the ears and the eyebrows. Comments and critics are welcomed.

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/9135/facetest7et0.jpg

[jtico]

I started it last weekend. Not finished but I think I won't work on it anymore. I had a lot of fun with it :) .

http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/4521/face12yr4.jpg

[jtico]

In the last two weeks, I've been working on the topology of a face. I found it harder than I thought :sad: :shrug: . Finally I've arrived to a solution for it. You have to think a lot in advance to place edges and vertexes. All in all it's an organized way to modeling. Below are the front and side views.

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/5877/facetest1apz1.th.jpg (http://img208.imageshack.us/my.php?image=facetest1apz1.jpg)
http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/7418/facetest1bgw9.th.jpg (http://img339.imageshack.us/my.php?image=facetest1bgw9.jpg)

[jtico]

Your previous comments were very valuable :) . Thanks again.


http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/6070/facetest1cfc5.th.jpg (http://img210.imageshack.us/my.php?image=facetest1cfc5.jpg)
Thanks for dropping by.

[jtico]

After having a working topology, I went back to modeling :). I changed the head proportions, making it wider. The jaw has been worked a little bit, but I'm still not satisfied with it :sad: . All in all, I think I'm getting closer to what I'm looking for.

http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/4821/facetest1dgf3.jpg

Cheers.

[Intervain]

Hi jtico - great to see you going with 3d :D Good topology :) I think the jaw's too much at an angle at the moment [slanting too much I mean] and also it's very, very strongly indicated where it meets the neck... keep it up:thumbsup:

[jtico]

Magdalena, thank you very much :scream: . I have seen that you are having a lot of fun with the movment workshop :beer: . I have a close eye on that thread :). I took your comment into account and here is the result


http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/6388/facetest1dzh7.jpg


Thanks again, and cheers.

[SylvanMist]

Hi there, that head is looking pretty good!
I think the ear is up too high though, it should be much closer to the base of the jaw.

[NR43]

I agree with Magdalena that the chin curves really strong into the bottom.

Here (http://www1.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/239882/2/istockphoto_239882_head_profile_right_view.jpg)is an example of the other extreme.
Ok you are modeling a skinny female instead of a fat man, but still... there should be flesh under the chin :)

[jtico]

Johan now I see what you mean. The link is very eloquent :). It's strange, the point that you and Magdalena were making is something you can see in every face/head in the street. It seems to me that I have a lot of prejudices that make me blind.

Maura I would agree with you. I watched some references and what I found on most of them is that the lower part of the ear is aligned with the base of the nose. In particular I found this (extreme) example (http://www1.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/4142244/2/istockphoto_4142244_business_woman.jpg)

[SylvanMist]

The ear is approx. the size between the base of the nose and the eyebrows, but the position of the ear- higher/lower, depends on the angle of hte face.
In the pic you showed her face is angled downward, therefore the ear is higher up. Look at this example:
http://www.craphound.com/images/turnyourhead.jpg

You can see that the placement here is so much lower. You can draw a diagonal line from the base of the nose to the base of the ear, likewise with the eyebrows-top of ear. Also note that you can draw a verticle line from the base of her nose to her chin-that whole area of the mouth/chin line up nicely-just like yours. Also note that the jawline in this pic is much more horizontal.

[jtico]

Maura thanks for your replay. The example you are referring to makes your point clear. During the week I made a more extended survey (including, Cyclopedia Anatomicae, by György Fehér), and the vertical position of the ear appears to be related to the race of the individual.

Here is an update of the head. I tried to address the point you made about the way the jaw connect to the neck. I tweaked the lips a little bit, the neck and the zone corresponding to the occipital bone.

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/785/facetest1fko3.jpg

Cheers.

[killermachine]

by far this face update looks best,wud lik to see its mesh for sure

[jtico]

Amrinder Thanks for your comment ^^. Here are some meshes :)

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/8413/facetest2aqq4.th.jpg (http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/8413/facetest2aqq4.jpg) http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/3230/facetest2bfj4.th.jpg (http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/3230/facetest2bfj4.jpg) http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/9205/facetest2csn9.th.jpg (http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/9205/facetest2csn9.jpg)

Cheers

[Intervain]

nice job so far jtico! I see there are some 5 sided polys on your mesh - try changing them to tris or even better, quads... especially the area around the nostrils looks a bit problematic at the mo... if you'd want to put your model into zbrush or mudbox you'd encounter some problems...
the shape's much better now as well.. I'd still make the chin a bit wider, make it a bit more square rather than so pointy...
also the muscle of the cheek [just above the lips] should slowly turn around and go towards the back of the face rather than fall off completely [don't know if I'm clear on this one :D]

[jtico]

Magdalena thanks for your support and critiques, I really appreciate it :) . I could solve one of the tris on the nose. At the moment I have no plans to put this model into zbrush or mudbox. I don't own this software, but I'm considering to buy mudbox (I don't even know if that's a little bit to much for an amateur like me).

Little update. I made the chin wider. The cheek is so so :D (your explanation Magdalena, was clear to me ;) ) I think I'll start to make some studies of the ear.

http://img394.imageshack.us/img394/905/face1evp4.jpg

Cheers

[killermachine]

hi
this one looks better then before.i would suggest that u start some study on paper as well as it will help you alot to improve 3d work faster.it also helps you clear your doubts.it helped me alot so i thot i'd just preach what i practise :wise: :D

tc
KM

[daWinky]

Hi Alberto,

great to see the fast improvement on your head model:) , it looks pretty good now to me and you have a topology you can work with. Why not try some pushing and pulling now to create slightly different looks, variations of mouth, nose, bone structure, perhaps try to work with photoreferences...
This is of course more comfortable in zBrush or mudbox, you can also download trial versions of both if you're not sure about buying it...

Cheers,
-sabrina

[jtico]

Amrinder, Thanks for your comment :) . I'll fallow your suggestion and will start with some sketches on paper. I have done this experiment before and I agree with you that it helped a lot ;).

Sabrina, thanks for your kind words ^^. That what you suggest is a good road to fallow (Ok, as I already said I have to work first on the ear). Of course, I agree with you about the use of photo references.

Cheers.

[jtico]

Oh yea! Just on time ^^.

I was about to start some ear studies, so this Workshop came at the right moment :). I will copy one of the plunk's ears :scream:. Hope I'll improve my :blush:, drawing skills :wip:.

The image below doesn't count for this workshop, cos it was done before the announcement was made.

http://img107.imageshack.us/img107/4302/ear3uc0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Cheers and happy new year!

[Intervain]

hey jtico, great start on improving the drawing skills :arteest: - hope to see you in the workshop then :D It'll be fun!

[jtico]

Looong time no post. Well, my work is unrelated with CG. I started this model more than halve year ago. From time to time I made little changes and here is the result. Thanks for dropping by.

http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/4349/face1a2009dv8.jpg
http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/4829/face1b2009gv7.jpg

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