c4d 10.5 :-) its public!

[Oli4D]

dwg, xrefs, many new things:-)
will make many happy i think.

http://www.maxon.net/pages/dyn_files/dyn_htx/htx/2137/02137_02137.html

thanks maxon
cheers
stefan

Yeah, looks nice, I'm just checking it out.
Cheers, Oliver

[FrankBerg]

dwg goodness :scream:

Go MAXON !!

[ooo]

Great news!

I don't suppose it's a free update. When is it available and what's the price?

Well done MAXON! :thumbsup:

odo

they're updating the online shop at the moment so prices will be published soon I guess.

[jph]

hi there,

especially the Xrefs get ne exited, cause working in team with highly complicated models for diffrent scenes makes working without Xrefs a pain!, ...so any expereinces with xrefs anybody? workflow? abilities? flaws? bugs? workarounds?

thx Jan

[Kokosing]

I think it is free and it's available now according to the downloads page. But I think it's too busy to let me download.

W

[warrens0221]

oooooh.... looks tasty... :)

[AAAron]

Navigation speed setting for tablet users.

This might seem like a small thing, but I think this little improvement will attract a bunch of new users. :thumbsup:

Can´t wait to get my hands on the new mograph. :drool:

[Oli4D]

Great news!

I don't suppose it's a free update. When is it available and what's the price?

Well done MAXON! :thumbsup:

odo

they're updating the online shop at the moment so prices will be published soon I guess.

Should be avalible 'very soon'... and the prices will be about the same like they were with the other 0.5 updates.

[Oli4D]

I think it is free and it's available now according to the downloads page. But I think it's too busy to let me download.

W

No, it is definitely not free.

[Byla]

need more info! fast :)

[graz]

Wow! If the DWG import function works as well as outlined, that will be fantastic.
Thank You Maxon!!

[RickBarrett]

We've got about 20 or so videos showing many of the new features - they should be going online at cineversity.com in the next few hours.

I'll post again as soon as we've made them visible.

- Rick -

[TimC]

hi there,

especially the Xrefs get ne exited, cause working in team with highly complicated models for diffrent scenes makes working without Xrefs a pain!, ...so any expereinces with xrefs anybody? workflow? abilities? flaws? bugs? workarounds?

thx Jan

XRefs are a very welcome addition that will make a lot of studios happy.

The workflow is simple enough. We have a new XRef object. This contains information about the XRef scene. You can simply click on any object (or selection of objects) in your scene and then choose Convert Object selection to XRef. The XRef object has an info tab, this tells you the path to the XRef scene, filename, object count, material count, frame rate, project length, memory usage. It also has tabs with object lists and material lists. These are like exclude lists and you can switch objects / materials on and off from with in the master scene. You can also choose to edit the XRef scene, reload the scene, reload all or take animation from the XRef scene. You can adjust the pivot matrix for the XRef scene.

Xrefs within XRefs are also supported.

Pressing 'c' will make the XRef editable. In other words it will break the link to the XRef scene and all the objects that were in the Xref are now in the master scene.

I'm sure there is more but that gives you an idea of what to expect.

cheers
Tim

[designbytes]

whew....and I was about to buy Mograh and Mocca! ;-)

now awaiting the "back soon" sign at the store to come down to see the cost!

[Newstream]

XRefs!? :)
Thanks Maxon, you just made my month.
/ Alex

[ooo]

Multiprocessor Hairrendering is also very nice feature as is the new shadowoptions. Lightning looks like an very interesting new tool too. Many very cool additions in this upgrade I must say!

On the German Treff forum I read that upgradeprice will be € 160,-
let's see how that translates to international prices.

odo

[Tank_3D_Attack]

I did some tests with XRefs as well using my .mac account. It worked perfectly fine hosting the master file (XRef) on the "virtual server" and having access to it. So, in essence even the little guy with big ideas can now finally work with a team of c4d users and still be in charge of the master files. Changes made to the masterfile are directly displayed within C4D (the AM will let you know that the master has been updated). XRef are defenitely awesome to have and we all have been waiting for it (well many many folks have been waiting).

The new "Lighting" tool is also VERY cool and useful. It's basically "interactive" lighting so to say. Makes for faster light rig set ups and perfect positioning of lights. You shall see the light soon :)


Thomas

[jph]

....... XRef are defenitely awesome to have and we all have been waiting for it (well many many folks have been waiting).


Thomas

... to tell you the truth there is two things why we stay with cinema, one is the availability of new renderengines (FR, Vray), the other is xrefs..., in a team you loose tons of time fiddiling with objects that have to get updated in every scene cause of the lack of Xrefs. Xrefs make cinema a lot more valubale for any studio taht is working on more complex stuff with more than a few persons!

thx jan

[Tank_3D_Attack]

... to tell you the truth there is two things why we stay with cinema, one is the availability of new renderengines (FR, Vray), the other is xrefs..., in a team you loose tons of time fiddiling with objects that have to get updated in every scene cause of the lack of Xrefs. Xrefs make cinema a lot more valubale for any studio taht is working on more complex stuff with more than a few persons!

thx jan


Totally agree with you on that. Having XRef's makes CINEMA 4D really attractive to studios now. This has been a BIG MINUS in the past and most studios just didn't take C4D serious because of missing XRef feature. I believe this release is very important and a huge step forward into the right direction.

Thomas

[kromekat]

On the German Treff forum I read that upgradeprice will be € 160,-
let's see how that translates to international prices.

odo

£109 according to Maxon UK (hey Laura! :D)

Which, by anybody's standards is pretty damned good! - what's more, it sounds like shipping is pretty quick and expected in a couple of days in the UK...

Adam

[RickBarrett]

We'll be shipping to the US & Canada today or tomorrow. Upgrade price for any bundle is $250. Shop should be going up shortly.

[JustinB]

Another fine upgrade from Maxon. I agree, XRef's are something that will really hopefully push C4D into some of the bigger post houses. The mograph additions look excellent too and generally some all round very useful features and tools!
Well done to the Maxon Team.

Order placed and expecting delivery!

Justin

[Rich-Art]

I get an error whe trying to install the Help file.

I have an English C4D R.10.5 demo and an English R10.5 Help file. The installer tells me that the help file is not for this C4D version..... Strange.

Peace,
Rich_Art. :thumbsup:

[spirozero]

"Upgrade is available for purchase immediately."

Huh!!!??? No waiting one month ... two months ... two years??!!

:D:D:D

Can't wait to play with Mograph!

[AkaKico]

Straight out of left field! :D

[belushy]

an stefan was the first order i was told
in europe

[DMJ]

Very nice improvements overall to C4D, especially the XRef feature. It's very nice for studios, but also for someone who uses C4D as a hobby, no more big cluttered scenes, just building parts and link them all together in a master file...

The 160 euros (ex vat & shipping) was confirmed to me this afternoon, so all i have to do is to save up enough to buy the upgrade.

No wonder we had the uneasy silence from Maxon when there were some complaints a while back that there wasn't news or notification of progress. I guess some people must have had a very hard time to keep themselves from blurting out "10.5 will be ready in a week".

Thank Maxon for surprises like this.

[StanrickKubley]

With Xref included, I can now convince my powers-that-be to take a hard look at Cinema 4D for animation. I'm so psyched about that. Thank-you, Maxonians.

Edit: and Mocca has clusters!

[LucentDreams]

hi there,

especially the Xrefs get ne exited, cause working in team with highly complicated models for diffrent scenes makes working without Xrefs a pain!, ...so any expereinces with xrefs anybody? workflow? abilities? flaws? bugs? workarounds?

thx Jan

We used it on a huge architectural project, the results of which will be in the cineversity video going online later today ( it will be up a little after the first ones to go live as its rendering on my system right now)

Anyways it was an entire University campus. We were given the intial lowres geometry, much of it made in vectorworks and max all in one file that was a whopping 92 megs. We split each building into its own file, and three artist each worked on separate buildings to rebuild add detai and optimize.

the Final master file was 956k and the optimized building file including more additional buildings not in the original, was 53 megs total in 15 files. Nice thing is partway through production i had to start lighting and animating camera while the other two were still fixing buildings. I would load their files as I saw them updated.

Best thing is, one artist was actually a few streets down from us, so its definitely usable over the internet.

[IlaySHP]

No wonder we had the uneasy silence from Maxon when there were some complaints a while back that there wasn't news or notification of progress. I guess some people must have had a very hard time to keep themselves from blurting out "10.5 will be ready in a week".

Thank Maxon for surprises like this.

don't say "Yes", before you have to try it / i dont' see any video(maybe not find it :argh: :banghead: ) or schematic screenshots of dwg's supporting...only gfx-pic :)

But maxon - :thumbsup: !

[belushy]

dwg import works great
although i have to prepare those files first so that they are not to far away from null

layernames come in and so on really great

also the lighttool is a great
jsut move your highlight
!! super girls and guys !!

just great

[LucentDreams]

oh, and you can animate camera in each file and use the scene object to indicate which reference camera to use, or even animate from camera to camera in different ref files.

[C.Smith]

So, am I understanding correctly that the point cache tags can be mixed somehow? i.e. NLA?

If I have a point cache tag of a character walking and a pont cache of a character jumping, can they be blended at all?

SO glad to see the Xref. Just the other day I was lamenting not having one for a very complex car model that I needed updating in many scenes.

I assume many scenes can all look at one Xref.

[GruvDOne]

It's great, some real improvements. But I cannot understand why Maxon continues to ignore its 2 weakest links. AR and (to a greater degree) Dynamics. AR has seen at least some improvement since the last time the physics engine got a refresh. I don't want to have to rely on 3rd party plugins that are iften here today gone tomorrow for something as involved as physics simulation. Please, Maxon... PLEAAAAAAASE!!! give us a new Dynamics module and a competitive AR solution in the next big upgrade.

[TimC]

I assume many scenes can all look at one Xref.

Yes many scenes can share the same XRef.

Tim

[AdamT]

It's great, some real improvements. But I cannot understand why Maxon continues to ignore its 2 weakest links. AR and (to a greater degree) Dynamics. AR has seen at least some improvement since the last time the physics engine got a refresh. I don't want to have to rely on 3rd party plugins that are iften here today gone tomorrow for something as involved as physics simulation. Please, Maxon... PLEAAAAAAASE!!! give us a new Dynamics module and a competitive AR solution in the next big upgrade.

They can only juggle so many balls at once! I think a lot of people would have said that the lack of .dwg support and Xrefs were among Cinema's weakest points. :shrug:

[sketchbook]

Xrefs and Vray. what more does one need?

[ThirdEye]

It's great, some real improvements. But I cannot understand why Maxon continues to ignore its 2 weakest links. AR and (to a greater degree) Dynamics. AR has seen at least some improvement since the last time the physics engine got a refresh. I don't want to have to rely on 3rd party plugins that are iften here today gone tomorrow for something as involved as physics simulation. Please, Maxon... PLEAAAAAAASE!!! give us a new Dynamics module and a competitive AR solution in the next big upgrade.

Because we have 54353 new available rendering engines but no Xref plugins out there. Priorities man, it's all about it.

[Srek]

I get an error whe trying to install the Help file.

I have an English C4D R.10.5 demo and an English R10.5 Help file. The installer tells me that the help file is not for this C4D version..... Strange.

Peace,
Rich_Art. :thumbsup:
There seems to be a small hickup, please remove the write protection from all files and directories in the demo version folder and try to install the help again.
Cheers
Björn

[RickBarrett]

Tutorials covering the new features of 10.5 are now available at Cineversity:
http://www.cineversity.com/series/index.asp?spid=38

These tutorials are available to everyone at no charge, but registration is required.

We'll be adding a few more later in the day and later in the week.

- Rick -

[LucentDreams]

not to mention you have no idea of when projects started and finished etc. Things take time to make, xrefs may have been done over 3 or four months, but it may also be something thats been in development for 2-3 years, some things like the new hair rendering improvements are obviously updates and fixes of course, but the new CA stuff would suggest many are just updates/improvements, and others are things that were already considered and underway, but not ready for R10. things you see in a release aren't necessarily made simply between the last release and the current release.

[LucentDreams]

So, am I understanding correctly that the point cache tags can be mixed somehow? i.e. NLA?

If I have a point cache tag of a character walking and a pont cache of a character jumping, can they be blended at all?

SO glad to see the Xref. Just the other day I was lamenting not having one for a very complex car model that I needed updating in many scenes.

I assume many scenes can all look at one Xref.

Ehhh yes and no. you could only match if theres some point in time where they line up. point caching literally stores the position of each point, so if you use two different caches you can't really mix them at the same time or your mesh sort of tears you can use the point cache deformer to restrict the cache to a certain selection or vertex map, handy for say blending two cloth caches, which is shown in the point cache deformer video on cinversity: http://www.cineversity.com/tutorials/lesson.asp?tid=933. Blending a character talking, and waving could be possible if you restrict the point cache for the arm, but walking and jumping would be hard as the points are moving very far way from each other if you restricted the upper body to one and the lower to the other, or blend 50/50, your going to get severe stretching as each point is doing a 50% blend between its position in one and its position in the other.

[GruvDOne]

Because we have 54353 new available rendering engines but no Xref plugins out there. Priorities man, it's all about it.

Yeah but you see, I don't feel like I should have to learn another company's shader algoryhthms and lighting idiosyncracies just to be able to make, for example an artifact-free GI Animation.

And you cannot deny that Dynamics have been all but completely ignored. It has not chnaged one iota since its first iteration in version 7 as a C4D plugin.

I am not saying that XRefs isn't cool (though since I am the only one in my team who does 3D, it doesn't really benefit me directly), it is. And DWG is great for that segment of the C4D populace doing Arch-Vis and Engineering work. All I am saying is that I feel I have been waiting pateintly at the table for my own meal, while many others are already on the desert course. Everytime an update comes out, I keep thinking.. ok, maybe next time.

I realize that Maxon's development team is relatively small, and that things take time. I am just using this public forum to express what needs of mine aren't being met, and doing so with the knowledge that I am not alone.

Maxon consistenly delivers and is a great company, but I will not lower my expectations on seeing real improvements where I feel they are needed while every other corner of the C4D Aniverse (I just made a new word :P) are treated a bit like unwanted step-children.

[JoelOtron]

All sounds great!

dwg and xrefs couldnt come at a better time for us.
Been hoping for xrefs for years now

Also the light tool--I have been wanting something like this as well for eons--actually approached a plugin developer about creating something like this.

Price and quick availability are both big plusses.

Now for practical workflow planning:
I assume (as usual) that 10.1 will not read a 10.5 file?

[wonky]

I too would be more interested in flicker free GI animations without having to resort to crazy workarounds. Dynamics is just crazy difficult and I could not rely on it unless for the simplest animations.

[tilo.kuehn]

Now for practical workflow planning:
I assume (as usual) that 10.1 will not read a 10.5 file?
10.111 can read files written with 10.5.
a few things will go lost (e.g. new ca options/tags).
but basically it works.

cheers
tilo

[Srek]

I assume (as usual) that 10.1 will not read a 10.5 file?
As usual files are compatible. It is only when several major releases have passed (R6-R8, R8-R10) that changes to the fileformat add up so much that old versions can't read them anymore.
Cheers
Björn

[Lovas]

Well, done Maxon! Let's hope the new additions to the program will make it even more appealing to the industry.

[ThirdEye]

Well, done Maxon! Let's hope the new additions to the program will make it even more appealing to the industry.

I think Maxon's on the right path, i see C4D everywhere these days: motion graphics, archiviz, broadcasting, even film, can you believe that?

[moka.studio]

does the new Dwg support up to 2008 also mean that newer Dxf formats (2000 and later) are supported now as well ?

[ThePriest]

I too would be more interested in flicker free GI animations without having to resort to crazy workarounds. Dynamics is just crazy difficult and I could not rely on it unless for the simplest animations.

If you want flicker free GI, VRay is your answer.

[kromekat]

I agree Dynamics should have been updated by now, but what about the 3rd party solutions? - they are excellent from what I have seen/used, and far from expensive.

Adam

[AdamT]

If you want flicker free GI, VRay is your answer.

...or finalRender, or Maxwell (just kidding about Maxwell :) ).

[lllab]

for dynamic stuff i think silverbullet from remotion is very cool and fast!

i love the new c4d light tool- my favorite!

cheers
stefan

[GruvDOne]

If you want flicker free GI, VRay is your answer.

And have to learn a whole new shader system and approach to lighting? Thanks, but no thanks.

I agree Dynamics should have been updated by now, but what about the 3rd party solutions? - they are excellent from what I have seen/used, and far from expensive.

Adam

I agree, there are some good 3rd party options out there, but I have been burned before by the fickle nature of plugin developers and don't want to put my eggs in the basket of such a developer and hope they don't stop developing/supporting the solution for whatever reason.

[Rich-Art]

There seems to be a small hickup, please remove the write protection from all files and directories in the demo version folder and try to install the help again.
Cheers
Björn

Yeah no problem srek. I only get the massage, but it seems to be working fine.
Thanks for the reply. :)

Peace,
Rich_Art. :thumbsup:

[jph]

Tutorials covering the new features of 10.5 are now available at Cineversity:
http://www.cineversity.com/series/index.asp?spid=38

These tutorials are available to everyone at no charge, but registration is required.

We'll be adding a few more later in the day and later in the week.

- Rick -


... cool stuff you got on there, I guess the Xref stuff is comming soon?

ciao jan

[AdamT]

And have to learn a whole new shader system and approach to lighting? Thanks, but no thanks.

That's a bit of an exaggeration. VRay's shader system isn't dramatically different from Cinema's in practice. It can use almost all of Cinema's shaders, and it can convert your Cinema materials to VRay materials. fR's shader tree system is another thing, but it's optional.

Lighting isn't hugely different either.

Of course there is a short learning curve and there is additional expense....

[JoelOtron]

As usual files are compatible. It is only when several major releases have passed (R6-R8, R8-R10) that changes to the fileformat add up so much that old versions can't read them anymore.
Cheers
Björn

I thought I remember having some trouble with 8.5->8, but it was a while back so hard to remember.
Just making sure I have my facts straight before upgrading.
Thanks Srek! (and tilo)

[Continuumx]

This is worth repeating:

DWG import and Xrefs support in C4D make 3DSMAX obsolete.

Thanks a million Maxon! Bravo and Full Steam Ahead!

This is world class news for sure, as C4D joins the rank of suitable and acceptable choice for professional 3D visualization and in Architectural visualization. This sits Maxon's C4D squarely across the table from Autodesk and its flagship products. (No Flame intended).

Innovation happens fast over at that genius bar of intelligence that is Maxon. With Maxwell Render and Vray support now available. There is reason for many studios to now seriously consider the ease of use and modern 3D platform called Cinema 4D.

[TwinSnakes]

Yeah no problem srek. I only get the massage, but it seems to be working fine.
Thanks for the reply. :)

Peace,
Rich_Art. :thumbsup:

Rich_Art,

Where did you find the 10.5 documenation? I only see the 10.111 documentation on the demo download page.

[nimpsy]

I just bought C4d R10 Studio bundle w/MoGraph a week ago! Do I have to pay for the 10.5 upgrade? Srek?

[Srek]

Check with the US office, but afaik the grace period started in september.
Cheers
Björn

[brammelo]

Check with the US office, but afaik the grace period started in september.
Cheers
Björn

I can confirm that for the Benelux (Belgium, the Netherlands and Luxemburg). If in doubt, just get in touch with my colleague Paul (paul@designexpress.eu). He'll figure it out for you.

Cheers,
BaRa

[Rich-Art]

Rich_Art,

Where did you find the 10.5 documenation? I only see the 10.111 documentation on the demo download page.

I think because of the install error, Maxon removed it from the download page. I think it will be online again very soon.

Peace,
Rich_Art. :thumbsup:

[TwinSnakes]

I think because of the install error, Maxon removed it from the download page. I think it will be online again very soon.

Peace,
Rich_Art. :thumbsup:

Okay, so I'm not stupid and crazy.

Thanks.

_-TS-_

FYI - It wont take the older (non-10.5 version) docs anyway, gives me a wrong version error. So dont bother d/l the docs til they put up the right ones.

[okazaky]

With Maxwell Render and Vray support now available. There is no reason for many studios to now seriously consider the ease of use and modern 3D platform called Cinema 4D.

That's exactly what I think :)
Pointcaches and Xref's are a real big step and make C4D very attractive even for users of other packages.

Moreover the new Mocca module makes C4D very interesting for animators, the features are simply great and I hope it will become the animator's first choice sometime ;)

I hope that the next step will be an improvement of Advanced Render and an internal compositing solution, that would be great :)

Thanks Maxon :thumbsup:

[Continuumx]

That's exactly what I think :)
Pointcaches and Xref's are a real big step and make C4D very attractive even for users of other packages.

Moreover the new Mocca module makes C4D very interesting for animators, the features are simply great and I hope it will become the animator's first choice sometime ;)

I hope that the next step will be an improvement of Advanced Render and an internal compositing solution, that would be great :)

Thanks Maxon :thumbsup:

Yes! and those two new modeling features for edges are awesome too!

[Srek]

Sorry for the inconvinience, but somehow the MAXON shop decided to call it a day and is currently showing pretty messed up stuff. Please check back in the shop later.
Cheers
Björn

[e[dub]]

Sorry for the inconvinience, but somehow the MAXON shop decided to call it a day and is currently showing pretty messed up stuff. Please check back in the shop later.
Cheers
Björn

you mean, like no upgrade option from 10.1-10.5?... I don't see it - only from 9.5-10.5

[Continuumx]

Sorry for the inconvinience, but somehow the MAXON shop decided to call it a day and is currently showing pretty messed up stuff. Please check back in the shop later.
Cheers
Björn

Thanks Srek, I just noticed that the Germany shop looks correct, the US,CAN,UK sites are not fully updated yet.

Will this be a download upgrade or physical shipment?

[bobtronic]

Will this be a download upgrade or physical shipment?

It's a physical shipment (DVD)

cheers,
Matthias

[Srek]

In fact it's two DVDs, the upgrade and a CA training DVD (made by Wipix). I'm not sure currently if the training DVD is included in all upgrades or only in those for customers that own MOCCA
Cheers
Björn

[C.Smith]

Ehhh yes and no. you could only match if theres some point in time where they line up. point caching literally stores the position of each point, so if you use two different caches you can't really mix them at the same time or your mesh sort of tears

Thank you for that explanation Lucent. I am really grateful for the new changes, but am quite taken back that NLA is not a higher priority.

Now that there is Vray, my only hold out now for a perfect system is NLA.

[LucentDreams]

I am not saying that XRefs isn't cool (though since I am the only one in my team who does 3D, it doesn't really benefit me directly), it is. And DWG is great for that segment of the C4D populace doing Arch-Vis and Engineering work. All I am saying is that I feel I have been waiting pateintly at the table for my own meal, while many others are already on the desert course. Everytime an update comes out, I keep thinking.. ok, maybe next time.

I realize that Maxon's development team is relatively small, and that things take time. I am just using this public forum to express what needs of mine aren't being met, and doing so with the knowledge that I am not alone.


First of all I can't see how you don't think xref's will be beneficial even if your not in a big team environment. I'm using them on everything now and I often work as a team of one.

That said, this is only the second update since mograph, I can't believe your feeling like maxon doesn't care for you, consider how long it had been for those ca guy who hadn't had an update since R8. Cinema had render updates in 8, 8.5, and 9.5. Heck R10 was the second update to the timeline since version 6. There are a lot of areas, and yes many don't get love all the time, dynamics being one of the two worst victims (pyro being the other totally unupdated module) One granted very ironic reason, is because they don't sell well its hard to justify the update if they are unsure of sales, the other thing is the work involved in those areas. lets be honest, dynamics is so bad a simple update here and there isn't going to do much it literally needs to be redone especially when compared to cloth and hair. And frankly if they do update it, I personally hope they follow the new industry trend and make sure that all their dynamic systems solve together and work together, which means a lot of work and additional changes to cloth and hair, the jiggle deformer etc.

[maikukai]

Can someone briefly describe what the new lighting tool does?

[LucentDreams]

... cool stuff you got on there, I guess the Xref stuff is comming soon?

ciao jan

Its coming, kai was very stupid and forgot a cut with some sensitive project material, and made sure to boost the audio so its not as quiet as the other videos I did for 10.5 (we'll reupload all the others tomorrow with better audio levels if anyone is having troubles hearing them today, takes a while to render all these out from camtasia)

[RickBarrett]

Can someone briefly describe what the new lighting tool does?

Here's a video describing it:
http://www.cineversity.com/tutorials/lesson.asp?tid=953

(just create a free account if you don't have one already)

[C.Smith]

Can someone briefly describe what the new lighting tool does?

The quicktime on the Maxon site with the crab model sums it up quite well.

[LucentDreams]

Thank you for that explanation Lucent. I am really grateful for the new changes, but am quite taken back that NLA is not a higher priority.

Consider it that maybe its not always an issue with priority, but magnitude of work. 10.5 is here after about a year with two free upgrades inbetween, so maxon has been busy but some things take a lot of time.

[LucentDreams]

Can someone briefly describe what the new lighting tool does?
The ebst would be to check out Sassi's detailed video on cinversity for this. http://www.cineversity.com/tutorials/lesson.asp?tid=953

That said it allows you to place and manage lights in your scene by not physically moving and rotating the light object itself, but instead deal with how the light affects the scene, place a light by specifying where you want the diffuse placed on the object, or perhaps placing the actual specular highlight, or even placing a shadow. The light tool adjusts the lights position and rotation to meet what ever element your specifying.

It can also be used to place objects, not just lights, so using the specular placement option with an object essentially places where the object will show in reflection, very handy with reflections planes.


one thign I'll point out thats not in Sassi's video is that using it with enhanced open GL kicks ass as you have much better preview of specular and you have actual shadow preview too.

[Continuumx]

Consider it that maybe its not always an issue with priority, but magnitude of work. 10.5 is here after about a year with two free upgrades inbetween, so maxon has been busy but some things take a lot of time.

Kai, you can bet your bottom that there are thousands of us out here that are jumping up and down over this update!:bounce:

My experience of Maxon so far of 4 years is that they work on the things that users express a need for in the application, and they implement it! Fast!

It makes Cinema 4D very advanced. I cannot wait to start using the new connect tool! This should make making any kind of on the fly edge loops very easy.

[castroman]

This is worth repeating:

DWG import and Xrefs support in C4D make 3DSMAX obsolete.



I hope it works. I am downloading the demo right now. nothing would make me happier if I could stop using 3ds viz. its a crash happy program and mental ray is no better. If it works I would be as happy as a 5 year old at christmas eve.

I have yet to work with vray in cinema, but if it is as easy as in 3d studio viz then we are entering a golden age of maxon.

[lllab]

in first tests dwg import and xfrefs in c4d are really great!
very well done maxon:-)

cheers
stefan

[scanmead]

I hope Maxon US has a grace period: I just got R10 last month, add in VRay, and my bank account is toasted. I really, really need that lighting tool!

Gosh, Christmas in September/October!

[GruvDOne]

First of all I can't see how you don't think xref's will be beneficial even if your not in a big team environment. I'm using them on everything now and I often work as a team of one.

Well then, perhaps I don't understand them fully. To be honest, I had never even heard the term before R10 came out and everyone wasking where the heck the XRefs were.



There are a lot of areas, and yes many don't get love all the time, dynamics being one of the two worst victims (pyro being the other totally unupdated module) One granted very ironic reason, is because they don't sell well its hard to justify the update if they are unsure of sales, the other thing is the work involved in those areas.

That's all I'm saying, and I thank you for at least aknowledging it. From a sales perspective though, do you not imagine sales of those modules are low due to the very fact that they haven't been updated in nearly 5 years?

MoGrpaph, meanwhile was a whole new thing with no proven sales record. If Maxon can take that chance, then surely they could put some dev muscle into Dynamics.

lets be honest, dynamics is so bad a simple update here and there isn't going to do much it literally needs to be redone especially when compared to cloth and hair. And frankly if they do update it, I personally hope they follow the new industry trend and make sure that all their dynamic systems solve together and work together, which means a lot of work and additional changes to cloth and hair, the jiggle deformer etc.

Absolutely. I have been saying that Dynamics needs to be re-written for at least the last 2 or 3 years. Whenever Clothilde debuted. I knew then that Maxon could definitely pull off intuitive dynamics; a fact that was further driven home with the release of Hair. What concerns me is that, just as you said, it will take a fair amount of time to accomplish such an overhaul, and there have been no musings from the Maxon camp as to it actually happening. I know, I know NDA's and what not. But when we are talking anout a nearly 6 year old piece of kit floating around in an otherwise constantly updated app, I think a little acknowledgement is in order.

All anyone in the know need say is "Yes, it is being addressed. No one knows when it will be out, and I cannot tell you what is involved, but just know that it IS NOT being ignored."

Surely you can empathise.

And yes, my analogy of being ignored is a little over the top, but I didn't say I always feel that way, only that I sometimes feel that way.

[govinda]

The value of XRefs in a solo worker environment is still great.

I tend to work on things solo, from two-week projects to six-month dedicated projects with dozens of work elements. I'm hoping that XRefs allows me to work in the following way...

When I build out a scene, I'm sometimes guilty of not riding herd on poly count. Pretty soon, a scene gets too big to render all in one. So I'll name each part (each major null) of the scene with a version number. 'DiningRoom_v08,' or 'CarReveal2_v06.'

So I end up with parts of the scene in several render-friendly 'master' scenes. That's a nightmare, and I hope XRefs can help with this (sounds like it can). The piece of mind is the thing. I can break out parts of a scene without the attending fugue state or neurotic breakdown, and in the end I'll bet I reduce my render times--sometimes by half.

Best of all, I hope I don't have to worry about the multiplication of duplicate materials that happens when you break out a portion of a scene to work on elsewhere. This kind of versioning error is the 'hidden killer' for large scenes.

[LucentDreams]

Funny thing is the maxon site and cineversity dont' go into much detail about my favourite feature of all, AUTOBACKUP!
http://www.kaithestuffguy.com/cinemajunk/autobackup.jpg


As well, not covered in cinema videos, but covered in the bodypaint video http://www.cineversity.com/tutorials/lesson.asp?tid=927
is the new Set camera pivot command, which means you can place the camera pivot ony any surface under your mouse cursor using the Insert key. Also in this pic, notice the new Camera mode for the AM, a special mode just for cameras so you can lock an AM to only show camera settings. Also notice there is no camera object in this scene and yet I have camera settings, thats right you can finally EDIT THE DEFAULT CAMERA!
http://www.kaithestuffguy.com/cinemajunk/camstuff.jpg

[LucentDreams]

That's all I'm saying, and I thank you for at least aknowledging it. From a sales perspective though, do you not imagine sales of those modules are low due to the very fact that they haven't been updated in nearly 5 years?

Yes I agree entirely, hence why I pointed out it was wan very ironic reason. From maxon's point of view they see little sale and think users don't care for it, as experienced users we know better that they aren't used because they need to work better.

[LucentDreams]

Best of all, I hope I don't have to worry about the multiplication of duplicate materials that happens when you break out a portion of a scene to work on elsewhere. This kind of versioning error is the 'hidden killer' for large scenes.

Well its a potential problem if one isn't careful. I mean when you use the convert to xref commands it only takes the materials related to the objects you convert, but each convert will have a duplicate of that material. The file used in the cinversity video was made way before the final version of xrefs, before the convert options existed, and when I made them manually one thing I forgot to do was remove the unused materials form each scene. that meant when I had the xrefs all loaded my system was using 1.4 gigs of ram, after using the edit scene button to go into each scene and run the remove unused materials command, the ram went down to a modest 480 mgs of ram used and thats for 15 buildings and some files have 80 materials alone.

there is a way to help avoid it though, and thats to have a single material file that you reference in to apply to your objects. so one file is just all materials, load it into each file as an xref and apply away. Also means you can reuse that texture library on other projects really easily.

[Continuumx]

I hope it works. I am downloading the demo right now. nothing would make me happier if I could stop using 3ds viz. its a crash happy program and mental ray is no better. If it works I would be as happy as a 5 year old at christmas eve.

I have yet to work with vray in cinema, but if it is as easy as in 3d studio viz then we are entering a golden age of maxon.

I just tested it, it works great.

I open an airport site plan dwg in Cinema 4D10.5 Demo. The layer feature of R10 makes the new R10.5 dwg support a grand addition and workflow option.

[joeski4d]

Could someone please explain how Xrefs and animation play together?

If you had a separate scene with a character walking and import that as an Xref into a master scene file, would the animation import as well? If so, I would assume that all edits to that animation would need to be done in Xref object file?

Or, is Xref meant only for objects/props in a scene that aren't animated?

This looks like a nice update!

-Joe

[Continuumx]

Proof in the DWG pudding!

http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/6544/c4ddwgbp8.jpg

[Jake-L]

Spent a better part of the day managing a megalodonian environment across multiple scenes - even spent nearly an hour with some wriggly highlights.

Then came here to read this :eek:

Thank you for the brown trousers, Maxon! :thumbsup:

[TimC]

nice little new feature.

See the little icon by the camera. You can use that to switch between active camera's. Ok, but the new thing is you can deselect them all to switch to editor camera. No need to use the menu anymore.

http://www.hypa.tv/tims/misc/cameraSwitch.jpg

That combined with the new camera pivot options makes navigating much easier.

Tim

[Continuumx]

...The file used in the cinversity video was made way before the final version of xrefs...

Hello Kai,

Please point me in the direction of this video.

Thanks!

[LucentDreams]

The Xref video is on cineversity but they are having some issues so its not live yet. It shows a little example of animation (not a character but a camera)



The Xref object does support animation, and can allow you to speed up or slow down the animation too basically you keyframe an option called "Scene Time" that specifies what frame of the referenced scene should be at the current time in the master scene, you should even be able to make a scene go in reverse (haven't tried it)

For animated characters the referencing system is still a pretty simple system, as you suspected you will have to edit the actual animation in the original file, or most of it at least.

One cool thing is that all linking relationships are still supported for objects in an xref file.

here is a cool video showing it, this isn't an official cineversity video I just popped it out quick and dirty, as well don't wanna deal with any backlog.
http://www.kaithestuffguy.com/cinemajunk/xpressoxrefs.mov

[LucentDreams]

Hello Kai,

Please point me in the direction of this video.

Thanks!
still not live on cineversity yet. I'll throw it on my site for now too, just hope my bandwidth can handle that one.

okay its up on cineversity now so here is a link to that to save my bandwidth:
http://www.cineversity.com/tutorials/lesson.asp?tid=955




Btw, nice dwg example, reminds me of why I try to void architecture stuff as much as possible, all those lines give me wanna jump out the 15 story window.

[STRAT]

Ah, good old Maxon, i see they've finally listened to their customers after all this time and given us a brand new decent AR.

no wait....hold on....that must be my last dose of crack talking......










(and please dont mention vray as you'd be missing the point)

[LucentDreams]

Oh, for canadian customers, really consider upgrading through maxon instead of resellers on this one imo. not to hurt resellers but I doubt they've adjusted their dollar point much and the dollar is basically 1:1 right now.

[Continuumx]

...

One cool thing is that all linking relationships are still supported for objects in an xref file.


Very nice interrelation of objects. Thank you for sharing!

BTW: The DWG file, yeah that one is a busy one, but shows off the power of DWG import in this C4D 10.5 which looks exactly like it does in AutoCAD.

Great stuff!

[LucentDreams]

on the subject of referencing characters again, I should point out that personally I don't see myself doing it with xrefs very often. Imo its much faster and easier if you simply have the final character in your master scene as geometry and materials (maybe hair and the likes if they are needed) but no deformers or joints or rig controls etc. then you animator simply caches their aniamtion, and saves the cache file to the network and you load it in. Then your animation is 100% preserved, theres no controllers and skeleton etc cluttering up your view

[therealpepe1]

Oh, for canadian customers, really consider upgrading through maxon instead of resellers on this one imo. not to hurt resellers but I doubt they've adjusted their dollar point much and the dollar is basically 1:1 right now.
A great upgrade and at one cent cheaper finally canadians get a good deal.

In passing I am a 3dworld magazine subscriber and have been complaining on their forums
about their pricing if any canadians could add to the post it would be great.

http://forum.3dworldmag.com/viewtopic.php?t=9911

Thanks
Pe

[georgedrakakis]

Ah, good old Maxon, i see they've finally listened to their customers after all this time and given us a brand new decent AR.
no wait....hold on....that must be my last dose of crack talking......


my thoughts exactly,
but dwg import & xref's are the next big things to ( the hopefully-coming-soon) Advanced Vrender 3 and it's surely a really good reason for upgrating.
(i wonder if there is an .dwg export option too, last time i had to export an organic model to autocad it was a nightmare :) )

btw, i can see upgrating prices from r.9.6 to r.10 engineering bundle, but not to r.10.5.
is this kind of upgrade scheduled for sometime later?

[Continuumx]

my thoughts exactly,
but dwg import & xref's are the next big things to ( the hopefully-coming-soon) Advanced Vrender 3 and it's surely a really good reason for upgrating.
(i wonder if there is an .dwg export option too, last time i had to export an organic model to autocad it was a nightmare :) )

btw, i can see upgrating prices from r.9.6 to r.10 engineering bundle, but not to r.10.5.
is this kind of upgrade scheduled for sometime later?

You can get this for $75 DXF to DWG.

http://anydwg.com/dwg-dxf/

Export from C4D in DXF then to DWG. Export DWG would be awesome in an 10.5.1.

Although I have no idea why you would want to take Cinema 4D's beautiful 3D into DWG.

If someone needs this, maybe it is because they are using Sketchup? And they want to edit your data, just send them 3DS.

[scanmead]

To clarify the grace period from Maxon US, it's only for new users who purchased R10 after September 1st. Upgrades from previous releases do not qualify. Just got off the phone.

[ChrisCousins]

All looks like fun to me ;) Not that worried about lack of AR/dynamics updates to be honest, there's enough decent alternatives to be able to work around it. A shader tree would have been nice of course...

Thanks from me too to Maxon for taking a decent approach to international pricing, it's nice not to be patronised by feeble excuses about how expensive it is to do business in Europe... (yes Adobe I am looking at you.)

Hope someone can clarify one question - the upgrade price is quoted per bundle but does that include upgrades for modules that aren't included in that bundle, ie would Hair, Mograph upgrades be included in an upgrade to the XL bundle?

Cheers - Chris

[spirozero]

Hope someone can clarify one question - the upgrade price is quoted per bundle but does that include upgrades for modules that aren't included in that bundle, ie would Hair, Mograph upgrades be included in an upgrade to the XL bundle?

Cheers - Chris

Ahhh, good question! I have the exact same modules & I'm using XL.

[georgedrakakis]

You can get this for $75 DXF to DWG.
http://anydwg.com/dwg-dxf/
Export from C4D in DXF then to DWG. Export DWG would be awesome in an 10.5.1.

tnx, actually my workaround was through partially export to 3ds, exploding to get the splines, etc.

Export DWG, plus Import/Export to Rhino (.3dm) are welcome ;)


Although I have no idea why you would want to take Cinema 4D's beautiful 3D into DWG.

it's easier for me to control organic-shaped walls or furniture directly @ c4d, but contractors & craftmen, drillmills-cutting machines, etc are working with .dwg's

[LucentDreams]

All looks like fun to me ;) Not that worried about lack of AR/dynamics updates to be honest, there's enough decent alternatives to be able to work around it. A shader tree would have been nice of course...

Thanks from me too to Maxon for taking a decent approach to international pricing, it's nice not to be patronised by feeble excuses about how expensive it is to do business in Europe... (yes Adobe I am looking at you.)

Hope someone can clarify one question - the upgrade price is quoted per bundle but does that include upgrades for modules that aren't included in that bundle, ie would Hair, Mograph upgrades be included in an upgrade to the XL bundle?

Cheers - Chris

if you own the modules separately then yes they will upgrade as well. the upgrade to 10.5 is one rate for all users, the other upgrades mentioned are for going from 10XL to 10.5 studio. The upgrade to 10.5 is just 250 (or 128 GBP)

[xfon5168]

That's all I'm saying, and I thank you for at least aknowledging it. From a sales perspective though, do you not imagine sales of those modules are low due to the very fact that they haven't been updated in nearly 5 years?

MoGrpaph, meanwhile was a whole new thing with no proven sales record. If Maxon can take that chance, then surely they could put some dev muscle into Dynamics.



I don't necessarily think there is proof of low sales. To the best of my knowledge, the only modules that are ever bought solo is AR, Mocca, and Mograph. Usually, if they need more than those, they just buy the XL Bundle, or the Studio Bundle and they get all the stuff involved. So wouldn't say that the sales of Dynamics are low, because I think Studio Bundle Sales are high.

They didn't just go, "Hey let's try some motion graphics, yeah?" Cinema had been well known in the motion graphics field before mograph and it was because of industry professionals, probably, telling MAXON, "Hey such and such would be REALLY cool it'd make my life a lot easier" that led to the developement of Mograph. And since they knew they were already far in the motion graphics field, it was almost a no brainer.

[GruvDOne]

I don't necessarily think there is proof of low sales. To the best of my knowledge, the only modules that are ever bought solo is AR, Mocca, and Mograph. Usually, if they need more than those, they just buy the XL Bundle, or the Studio Bundle and they get all the stuff involved. So wouldn't say that the sales of Dynamics are low, because I think Studio Bundle Sales are high.

They didn't just go, "Hey let's try some motion graphics, yeah?" Cinema had been well known in the motion graphics field before mograph and it was because of industry professionals, probably, telling MAXON, "Hey such and such would be REALLY cool it'd make my life a lot easier" that led to the developement of Mograph. And since they knew they were already far in the motion graphics field, it was almost a no brainer.

Well, you missed both my point and the fact that I was responding to Kai. No worries though.

[Continuumx]

tnx, actually my workaround was through partially export to 3ds, exploding to get the splines, etc.

Export DWG, plus Import/Export to Rhino (.3dm) are welcome ;)



it's easier for me to control organic-shaped walls or furniture directly @ c4d, but contractors & craftmen, drillmills-cutting machines, etc are working with .dwg's

I thought CNC and 3D model printers worked fine off of STL format?

Okay, if you are operating on this level, then I most surely suggest the engineering module as this fits the work you are in perfectly. You get a whole slew of import/export formats.

[Ernest Burden]

To clarify the grace period from Maxon US, it's only for new users who purchased R10 after September 1st. Upgrades from previous releases do not qualify. Just got off the phone.

Ah, shucks! I just bought a v10 upgrade + Mograph on 09/21. So what's a few hundred dollars more between friends?

The DWG blocks > Instances is something I've been begging for since I first bought in, at v8. It will be hugely useful, as will some form of Xref. What will I whine about now? Oh yeah--AR. I can still complain about that. But I have Maxwell, Fry, FR2 and Vray, so ... I'm good.

[AdamT]

Ah, shucks! I just bought a v10 upgrade + Mograph on 09/21. So what's a few hundred dollars more between friends?

The DWG blocks > Instances is something I've been begging for since I first bought in, at v8. It will be hugely useful, as will some form of Xref. What will I whine about now? Oh yeah--AR. I can still complain about that. But I have Maxwell, Fry, FR2 and Vray, so ... I'm good.

Then we're all happy. ;)

[realsurreal]

I just bought the student version of R10 around september 13th, is the student license availble for the upgrade since im in the grace period?

[Continuumx]

:)Then we're all happy. ;)

Agreed, we all are very happy in Cinema 4D world at the moment!

[GruvDOne]

Ah, shucks! I just bought a v10 upgrade + Mograph on 09/21. So what's a few hundred dollars more between friends?

But I have Maxwell, Fry, FR2 and Vray,

You also apparently have pockets of limitless depth ;)

[Kuroyume0161]

You also apparently have pockets of limitless depth ;)

Pays to be an architect or architectural visualizer (wink). There's some big bucks in that field and related ones - see 'Donald Trump' for how land, buildings, building can be very *lucrative*. ;)

[govinda]

Seriously, nearly ten grand for a week's work building out a restaurant and outputting three large stills using Max and VRay. This is what my architect friend was forced to pay for some very nice renders (not her fault--the Archviz firm came with the job. Ah, Vegas.). Tell me the rest of us aren't chumps.

This break in form and off-topic inciter is brought to you by the letters B.E.E. and R. and the number 6.

[Renderwise]

According to the 10.5 Core new feature list there is a "Resetting parameters to default setting"-feature. Cant find it, anyone?

[Srek]

If you right click on the increase/decrease arrows of an input field it will be reset to the default value.
Cheers
Björn

[govinda]

Double post

[castroman]

I downloaded the demo yesterday, but none of the files I imported worked, tried Revit files, Autocad files, 3ds viz files, Sketchup files(all different versions of dwgs). None of them worked.
I was feeling a little anxious, but today I saw that it doesn't support solids, so I downloaded here at work and it worked perfectly after reexporting to polymesh. My huge apartment complex came in from Revit in a blink of an eye with materials categorized. The layout in the object manager also looks perfect.

Maxon, you owe me a new keyboard, the old one died on me because I am sitting here crying happy tears.
:)

Hey boss, I wanna have new software!!!

[ollle]

Did you discover the fulltext search in the help? Drag the slider in the help-browser to the right.

[marshalartist]

How is this for good service, I was reading Stefan's post yesterday about 10.5 before anyone had responded to the post I got a call from Maxon UK asking if I want to buy the upgrade and here I am less than 24 hours later and it is on my computer with the final serial number! :)
There just is not enough free time to explore all these goodies what with 10.5 and vray, happy days!

[kromekat]

How is this for good service, I was reading Stefan's post yesterday about 10.5 before anyone had responded to the post I got a call from Maxon UK asking if I want to buy the upgrade and here I am less than 24 hours later and it is on my computer with the final serial number! :)
There just is not enough free time to explore all these goodies what with 10.5 and vray, happy days!

You took the words right out of my mouth! - mine arrived this morning also :D

Adam

[Srek]

A short note to those who had problems with help or language files. A new archive of the 10.5 demo for windows was just uploaded. The new demo archive has no differences to the previous installer except for the removed read only flags that made the installation of lang4d files fail.
Cheers
Björn

[SilverCity]

In order to upgrade from R10 to R10.5, do we need to also upgrade non-bundled modules? I own the XL bundle along with S&T and Hair.

[Srek]

The 10.5 upgrade contains all needed upgrades for all modules, regardless of any bundles. Not every module was changed regarding functionality, but practicaly every module got bugfixes.

Cheers
Björn

[SilverCity]

Thanks, Srek.

Btw, does this price seem too good to be true?

http://toolfarm.stores.yahoo.net/maci4d10xlup.html

My recent upgrade from R9.6 to R10 was $495.00. To upgrade to R10.5 is another $250.00.

[Srek]

Sounds pretty cheap to me, but i'm not in sales, i don't know what conditions resellers can make. If in doubt check directly with your local MAXON office.
Cheers
Björn

[Ernest Burden]

Seriously, nearly ten grand for a week's work building out a restaurant and outputting three large stills...very nice renders

That sounds quite reasonably, maybe even a bit too cheap. Restaurants are a lot of work.

You also apparently have pockets of limitless depth ;)

'Pockets' suggests the money settles for a while. Lately with a series of software upgrades and new machines, including an 8 core Boxx, there's money flying through my hands so fast I never even knew I had it. But yeah, when there's work in arch-vis, you don't starve.

Pays to be an architect or architectural visualizer (wink). There's some big bucks in that field

Quite true. What I like to say is that to work in arch-vis you must sell your artistic soul, but you get a good price.

Speaking of which, if there are any arch-vis experts who want a good paying fulltime job in NYC let me know, I have a friend looking, and looking... for someone to take an open position.

Back on topic, I emailed Maxon US about the upgrade, so I hope to join the happiness soon.

[danb]

How would xrefs be used in existing projects. I just worked on a project similar to the university kai described.

I did my part on the project, which was character animation, but the studio is still working putting it all together for rendering. They had so many polygons, that at one point they couldn't render at all with GI. They really wanted GI and were disappointed to not use it.

Would xrefs be compatible with GI and AO, and would it speed up rendering at all?

[Srek]

No, rendering will not become faster with XRefs. For final rendering the Xref components in a scene behave exactly as if they were a normal part of it. Thats actualy a main feature of XRefs.
However you can use Xrefs to replace parts of a scene easily with proxies or other variatons of those parts so you don't have to change the original scene all the time.
Cheers
Björn

[LucentDreams]

no in fact using xrefs does run into using more memory then having it all in one file.

breaking up the file is you select all the component you wish to be part of a new xref, then select the convert objects to xref command as shown int he video, I take one building and convert it very painlessly.

[spirozero]

No way. I just noticed that the "Advanced Character Rigging DVD" that's included with the upgrade was put together by the folks at WiPix! That alone is probably worth, oh ... $65!?

I thought those guys were working on a rigging/animation DVD using Cactus Dan's tools???

[Wipix]

Yep ... we are working yet on the CD tutorial. But on our free time ...
and we are very busy actually :/
The Mocca CA tutorial has been a special demand of Maxon; we thought that it was an emergency project.

best regards,


Vincent Vuillaume
SARL Wipix

[soccerrprp]

Kiteman has been very busy lately and plans to resume/finish the CA tutorial using CDTools.

http://www.c4dportal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=15517#post15517

Richard

[danb]

I see thanks Srek and Kai.

[brammelo]

Ah, good old Maxon, i see they've finally listened to their customers after all this time and given us a brand new decent AR.


But Steven, Vray is the point! MAXON is a cool and friendly company. I'm sure they're just holding out on AR 3 so that the Vray4C4D-guys can make some money on their development. Of course, in - let's say a year - they will have waited long enough to kill all these developments ;-)

And Strat, given the quality of work you produce: yes, Vray is a very viable option. Don't say it ain't so :-)

[WillBellJr]

Being new to the Maxon fold, I'm wondering if there's any "cutoff" dates for free upgrades?

I know some here just purchased V10 and I'd imagine (hope?) they'd get a rollover to v10.5?

I purchased back at the end of june so I'm only about 3 months in or so - so I'm just wondering how does these upgrades work? :D

Great work on the update and fast turn around on availablity! :buttrock:

-Will

[LucentDreams]

as stated at least tice before, cut off was september 1st, 30 days. Sorry you missed it :shrug:

[JoelOtron]

No ones commented on the mograph updates--New Volume Effector and the ability to select, or isolate specific clones will be great--very handy in the work I do.

Also--glad someone else noticed that weird reflection problem that occurs when using cloners.

[Renderwise]

If you right click on the increase/decrease arrows of an input field it will be reset to the default value.
Cheers
Björn

Got it. Thanks for your reply. I was looking for a "reset all" button.

[tilo.kuehn]

Got it. Thanks for your reply. I was looking for a "reset all" button.the popupmenu infront on the property name in the am now has also a "reset to default option" which offers the functionality for all elements with no spinners :)

cheers
tilo

[tcastudios]

the popupmenu infront on the property name in the am now has also a "reset to default option" which offers the functionality for all elements with no spinners :)

cheers
tilo

Brilliant! And it also gives the choise to reset only the selected ones:)

Cheers
Lennart

[Ernest Burden]

I haven't gotten Maxon US on the phone to ask this yet...

If I buy a full Studio upgrade + Mograph upgrade from the maxon website, is the new version a download, or do I still need to get a package delivered?

[xfon5168]

Well, you missed both my point and the fact that I was responding to Kai. No worries though.

I don't really think I did. You were talking to Kai on a Public forum, do remember that. You stated that you think sales for dynamics are low and that might be a reason to pump it up, I gave you my side to why I think Dynamics sales are actually not low. So you gave your opinion, I gave mine. I'm not against you I've been waving the "Please update Dynamics" banner since 8.0, so I'm on your side. I just think your statement about dynamics sales being low and that the mograph module was a shot in the dark were incorrect.

[LucentDreams]

I haven't gotten Maxon US on the phone to ask this yet...

If I buy a full Studio upgrade + Mograph upgrade from the maxon website, is the new version a download, or do I still need to get a package delivered?

Its a package, 2 DVD's in fact as I understand it, the second DVD is the Wipix rigging tutorial, some really awesome stuff.

[GruvDOne]

I just think your statement about dynamics sales being low and that the mograph module was a shot in the dark were incorrect.

Well, thing is, I didn't state that sales were low, Kai did in the post I was responding to. My reply was focused in part around that fact. My query was that if sales of Dynamics are low, then wouldn't the age of it be a contributing factor? Kai subsequently commented that yes indeed it wuld be, and Maxon's stance on holding off on development was therefore a bit ironic, to say the least.

MoGraph was brought in merely as a tool for comparison to further put the irony of the potential scenario as outlined on display.

Not trying to beat a dead horse, but I don't like being misunderstood.

Cheers

[willsud]

Pardon a simple question about 10.5 demo, but I'm not the only one who is asking, that we cannot see .dwg in the Open file types dialogue.
Is it just there but offscreen, as someone here has mentioned bringing in non-solids exports from Revit?

thanks.

[Per-Anders]

Typically you just open the file with C4D (or drag & drop it in, or get it from the content browser etc etc...) it works out what format it is you're using automatically, you should see the options there if you go to Edit->Preferences->Import/Export->DWG Import

[Ernest Burden]

Its a package

Thanks. I'll have my package tomorrow morning. Yea!

[Continuumx]

Well, thing is, I didn't state that sales were low, Kai did in the post I was responding to. My reply was focused in part around that fact. My query was that if sales of Dynamics are low, then wouldn't the age of it be a contributing factor? Kai subsequently commented that yes indeed it wuld be, and Maxon's stance on holding off on development was therefore a bit ironic, to say the least.

MoGraph was brought in merely as a tool for comparison to further put the irony of the potential scenario as outlined on display.

Not trying to beat a dead horse, but I don't like being misunderstood.

Cheers

You never know, there just may be some ingenius development with the dynamics module that are not ready for public release at this time. I would take the things like the new jiggle deformer as a tip of the hat that something special is coming for unified dynamics in Cinema 4D.

[LucentDreams]

really? jiggle deformer is more separated again it has its own caching built in so now you have dynamics, cloth, hair, and jiggle caches to deal with.

It does use an approach I think is far superior though. Deformer based. Cloth would be a million times better imo if it was a deformer.

[willsud]

Typically you just open the file with C4D (or drag & drop it in, or get it from the content browser etc etc...) it works out what format it is you're using automatically, you should see the options there if you go to Edit->Preferences->Import/Export->DWG Import

thanks - it seems the confusion has arisen because the Architecture bundle download isn't yet at 10.5

Hmm, I've imported a dwg from Revit but no materials seem to come across with the poly mesh export, which I guess is normal?

[STRAT]

But Steven, Vray is the point! MAXON is a cool and friendly company. I'm sure they're just holding out on AR 3 so that the Vray4C4D-guys can make some money on their development. Of course, in - let's say a year - they will have waited long enough to kill all these developments ;-)

And Strat, given the quality of work you produce: yes, Vray is a very viable option. Don't say it ain't so :-)

sshhhhh, i am using vray ;)

i'm just on a crusade for the AR3. i love maxon's render system and dont want it to suffer.

[lllab]

maxon is very nice to us,
but you can believe me they would not hold back a product just for us;-)

cheers
stefan

[3dj]

Just curious guys, what is it that makes Dynamics so bad? I haven't used it. Does it not follow the Maxon paradigm? I know it's old, I am sure it could be updated to be more efficient etc. but is the workflow bad?

Thanks.
-Jim

[wonky]

Just like Bioshock and other FPS games I have played recently the physics is great until it is time to rest, then the objects twitch and self animate never settling down like they should. This is the Dynamics module. Couple this with some nasty learning curves and there you are. I see very little work done using dynamics on these forums, it is no wonder. It is quite old like pyrocluster and should really be much easier to implement.

[LucentDreams]

its an old methodology that isn't very cinema like at all, its also not been well integrated and adapted as the cinema interface has evolved. it has a lot of limitations compared to cinema's other simulation systems, it is slower, more physically accurate in its settings and terminology which makes it a lot more difficult to understand, and most importantly, its doesn't produce usable reliable results. heck the old basic tutorial of a ball hitting some stacked boxes doesn't work for me, when i do it my cubes always end up jittering through each other.

[LucentDreams]

its an old methodology that isn't very cinema like at all, its also not been well integrated and adapted as the cinema interface has evolved. it has a lot of limitations compared to cinema's other simulation systems, it is slower, more physically accurate in its settings and terminology which makes it a lot more difficult to understand, and most importantly, its doesn't produce usable reliable results. heck the old basic tutorial of a ball hitting some stacked boxes doesn't work for me, when i do it my cubes always end up jittering through each other.

[Continuumx]

really? jiggle deformer is more separated again it has its own caching built in so now you have dynamics, cloth, hair, and jiggle caches to deal with.

It does use an approach I think is far superior though. Deformer based. Cloth would be a million times better imo if it was a deformer.

I was pointing more so to the improvements in the Mocca module in reference to dynamics and that maybe this is the seed to a better overall dynamics system and hopefully a unified solution to put an umbrella over all the small subsets that are now available. A cache dynamics manager would be a start. :)

[Simon Wicker]

heck the old basic tutorial of a ball hitting some stacked boxes doesn't work for me, when i do it my cubes always end up jittering through each other.

the problem with the dynamics module has always been that there is a hidden hard wired number that that tells the solver to just give up when you have more than this magic number of points in collision at the same time.

this is set to such a small value that any kind of interesting sim (i.e. the classic collapsing brick wall) fails before it gets started as you automatically break the magic number barrier.

i have begged maxon on my knees to at least increase this value to something vaguely useful (even if it meant only being able to sim on a machine with a lot of ram) but never got any reply as to why they couldn't or why it is set to such a low figure in the first place.

this was back in the days of R7.

it always seemed a bit like making the worlds best renderer but limiting it to 640x480 pixels so it could still be run by all those people on their quadra 700 with 4mb of ram.

cheers, simon w.

[Kokosing]

sorry, double post.

W

[Kokosing]

I was pointing more so to the improvements in the Mocca module in reference to dynamics and that maybe this is the seed to a better overall dynamics system and hopefully a unified solution to put an umbrella over all the small subsets that are now available. A cache dynamics manager would be a start. :)


I'm not sure if Maxon would attempt this, but isn't the real benchmark in Dynamics (from what I understand) a universal system where all sims (water, cloth, solids, etc.) can interact? I think only Houdini and RealFlow really offer this as the moment. Is it possible that Maxon is going for it?

W

[Mo3allem]

Hi all ,

SORRY I WAS TOO WRONG

Ahmed

[tntx]

Cool update Maxon...hud is so awesome with big icons. Irony is that i have espected BIGER ICONS in obj. manager. As i said before we are on big screens today, and that means large resolutions. Large resolutions means smaller icons & finaly, smaller icons means that our eyes sufering alot. :argh: (http://forums.cgsociety.org/misc.php?do=getsmilies&wysiwyg=1&forumid=0#)

Also it will be nice to have posibility that you can select ALL hud objects inside one group for further editing. Shift + click on the first obj. than click on the last obj.= ALL SELECTED. And yes, i have some strange experience with the hud in demo.
Hud behave sometime like a teenager.

But i must confess that i just cant' wait anymore AR3, DYNA2 or STORM2d/3d.
I know that maxon will put this next time. I have a vision that maxon is preparing
a new module. This module transform a c4d into all other 3d app. :D

Anyway, cooool update guys! :) and great price also. :)

[LucentDreams]

I think the HUD needs some god tutorials to show people just what all can be done with it, I'm sadly extremely busy at the moment so I wont' be doing one anytime soon, but the HUD has really become a huge feature in cinema with the most recent update.

the one problem with the HUD is it has sort of evolved to the point of reaching a lot of limits in its original implementation, particularly how groups are handled. I see your suggestion for shift selecting, and I doubt it will be possible till the grouping is redesigned. Right now groups are nothing more than a box around individual elements. their location etc is still according to screen space, not space within the group )which is why sometimes you'll find things in a group start overlapping.

Any suggestions you have for the HUD I recommend putting on the suggestion forms on maxon's site. I guarantee you though that I will keep pushing for further improvement of it. There just so much it can do, but still so much more potential.

[LoopCorp]

Just received the update and was shocked to find the Wipix mocca tutorial in there (I see now that it's been mentioned here already). I've got it playing and it seems great so far -makes the already reasonable upgrade price a steal.

[Ernest Burden]

I think the HUD needs some god tutorials to show people just what all can be done with it, I'm sadly extremely busy at the moment so I wont' be doing one anytime soon, but the HUD has really become a huge feature in cinema with the most recent update.

I'm suffering a lack of imagination on this, can you mention a few things that using the HUD would add to our workflows? I use it for basic things, but I don't find I forget what camera is current, or which object I've selected very often, for example. What else can we do with HUD?

[LucentDreams]

well thats very antiquated uses, heck you've been able to do a fair bit more for quite a while, but stuff mostly useful for animators, have sliders drips downs and such follow with an object so when you select it to animate, its parameters are always right next to it and such.


With 10.5 however you can now replace visual selector entirely with the HUD, alll the capabilities of VS are supported, so I can drag any object right from the OM into the hud now and clicking on it in the hud, selects the object. Then I can set a command, either from the preset commands, move, scale, rotate, but I can assign and cinema 4D command (delete, open, whatever) or I can even refer to the name of a script and have the object run that script.


As an animator I use this so that certain controls when selected are in rotate or move tool depending on what their behaviour suits best.

This is so flexible that you can even create most of the cinema 4d menu system as a HUD.
Here are two examples, one is the cinema menu system as a hud, and the other is the animation playback controls in the hud. Granted both files are examples that are kinda pointless, but they do show how flexible it can be.

well thats very antiquated uses, heck you've been able to do a fair bit more for quite a while, but stuff mostly useful for animators, have sliders drips downs and such follow with an object so when you select it to animate, its parameters are always right next to it and such.


With 10.5 however you can now replace visual selector entirely with the HUD, alll the capabilities of VS are supported, so I can drag any object right from the OM into the hud now and clicking on it in the hud, selects the object. Then I can set a command, either from the preset commands, move, scale, rotate, but I can assign and cinema 4D command (delete, open, whatever) or I can even refer to the name of a script and have the object run that script.


As an animator I use this so that certain controls when selected are in rotate or move tool depending on what their behaviour suits best.

This is so flexible that you can even create most of the cinema 4d menu system as a HUD.
Here are two examples, one is the cinema menu system as a hud, and the other is the animation playback controls in the hud. Granted both files are examples that are kinda pointless, but they do show how flexible it can be.

www.kaithestuffguy.com/maxontemp/funwithhud.zip

Other uses we've found for the HUD while testing included:

1)Watermarking editor and renders using a HUD element with image that contains alpha, set to render.

2)Creating custom Framing and Guides again by making them as images with alphas and then loading them and setting them to full size


I'm sure people will find more creative ways down the road too.


Other uses we've found for the HUD while testing included:

1)Watermarking editor and renders using a HUD element with image that contains alpha, set to render.

2)Creating custom Framing and Guides again by making them as images with alphas and then loading them and setting them to full size


I'm sure people will find more creative ways down the road too.

[moka.studio]

I'm suffering a lack of imagination on this, can you mention a few things that using the HUD would add to our workflows? I use it for basic things, but I don't find I forget what camera is current, or which object I've selected very often, for example. What else can we do with HUD?

I have added the main options for all the tools to the HUD, so I can work with all modelling tools in Full screen mode.
Big difference in workflow

[moka.studio]

double post

[Ernest Burden]

I have added the main options for all the tools to the HUD, so I can work with all modelling tools in Full screen mode.
Big difference in workflow

I don't use Maya, but when I see my son using it I've noticed that tools and options are available in a flyout splat-like object in the GUI. Is that what you're doing?

Working fullscreen sounds nice!

[LucentDreams]

no thats what is called a hotbox, a specialkind of menu, wehave the same thing as a global popup using the shortcut "v"


no he means he's literally added the tools parameters (like the extrude offset and subfivision etc) into the HUD so that when he activates a tool the settings appearing not just int he AM but in a HUD. this way he can be full screen where there is no AM, but still tweaks settings in his modeling tools.

[moka.studio]

exactly. This is to be able to tweak parameters quickly.
Whatever tool I am using at the moment has the main parameters in the HUD.
I have attached a file, v10.1.
You can see what I mean, just open it in C4d (make sure the HUD is turned on).


The popup menu, which is what you mention, is another important workflow inhancer; so is the snap popup.

[Ernest Burden]

Thanks for the time spent to explain yourselves, it's quite helpful. there isn't a file attached, but when you can post it I'll have a look, see what I can learn.

[moka.studio]

Thanks for the time spent to explain yourselves, it's quite helpful. there isn't a file attached, but when you can post it I'll have a look, see what I can learn.

sorry about that, here it is

[Continuumx]

...

Other uses we've found for the HUD while testing included:

1)Watermarking editor and renders using a HUD element with image that contains alpha, set to render.

2)Creating custom Framing and Guides again by making them as images with alphas and then loading them and setting them to full size
...

How do you do this?

One thing I have done is put the "Recent Tools" into my HUD as a convient way to access those in the viewport.

[Continuumx]

Okay, I figured it out. You can bring in a bitmap or any other item directly into the HUD or use the "Enable Icon" to load an image (Seems redundant- time to read the manual). Then you can strip the name and just leave the image. Then change the size of the icon and basically you have a image stamp that will not move unless you "control" select the HUD element and then move the image stamp around. This way you can demo something or watermark your viewport work.

I assume you can use the GIF for transparency if you want to put a logo in the viewport.

Very nifty!

[Shilts]

Hi guys,

Great release.

I have just moved from the UK to New Zealand and was wandering if anybody knew what my upgrade options were?

I have R10 Studio Bundle, Maxon UK gave me a name of a distributor over here (NZ), but they have not responded to my emails yet. I am pretty keen to upgrade to 10.5 asap. Do I have to go through a distributor or can I go by other means to purchase?

[AdamT]

Hi guys,

Great release.

I have just moved from the UK to New Zealand and was wandering if anybody knew what my upgrade options were?

I have R10 Studio Bundle, Maxon UK gave me a name of a distributor over here (NZ), but they have not responded to my emails yet. I am pretty keen to upgrade to 10.5 asap. Do I have to go through a distributor or can I go by other means to purchase?
Give them a call if you have a phone number.

[willsud]

[QUOTE=Shilts]
I have just moved from the UK to New Zealand and was wandering if anybody knew what my upgrade options were?
QUOTE]

Sorry - Ignore - I got the original reply back to front :rolleyes:

[boacon]

Hi Shilts and welcome to NZ.

You could try Protel in Wellington (04) 801 4658 (glenn.miers@protel.co.nz) or if no luck there try Adimex in Sydney 0061 2 9906 4556 (eamon@adimex.com.au).

cheers, Steve

[abstrax]

Hi Shilts

I am working for the NZ Distributer (Megabits Trust) and my boyfriend (whose account I am using at the moment) told me about your complain.
Unfortunately we didn't get your e-mail so I tried to contact you through CG Talk but it seems you didn't get that e-mail either....

Our phone number would be 09 445 8480

Cheers
Andrea

[ChrisCousins]

If anyone knows anyone in the postal service in the Brighton/UK area, would you be able to have a word on my behalf? My upgrade's been stuck in the damn strike they've been having since last Thursday. Grr. Bring on the download only option I say...

[rsquires]

Do you get a new serial with 10.5?

If so then it's a big pain because I'm going to have to update all my plugins with the new serial. It should be a variation of 10.0 shouldn't it.

I was hoping to get up and running really soon but it's stuck waiting for a serial.

regards

rich

[Kuroyume0161]

Do you get a new serial with 10.5?

If so then it's a big pain because I'm going to have to update all my plugins with the new serial. It should be a variation of 10.0 shouldn't it.

Yes and no. You get a new serial number for 10.5 but the base 10 serial number remains. Plugins use the base serial number - there is no way to get at the x.5 serial number anyway.

Has there been any time where a x.5 upgrade has require new plugin serial numbers for you?

Robert

[Shilts]

Thanks for the responses guys. Much appreciated.

Andrea, I have just emailed you, I have been offline the last few days due to my crappy ISP, sorry.

[basilisk]

My upgrade's been stuck in the damn strike they've been having since last Thursday. Grr. Bring on the download only option I say...

Ditto.....

[PresNevins]

The Japanese distributor was pretty on-the-ball in getting the discs to me in a reasonable time, but I have to agree that I'd also prefer it if Maxon would put the costs for making and distributing the DVDs into instead offsetting the multi-gig-download bandwidth costs, and distribute C4D primarily by download.

The fewer physical parts in the process to get mucked up, the better it feels to me. (And the Royal Mail strike just underscores the situation.)

[benytone]

MOCCA's new Paint Tool (It's fantastic! :thumbsup: )
.
http://home.arcor.de/anim1d/1003.jpg
.

[Kuroyume0161]

Is that actual weight-map painting? I haven't sprung for R10.5 yet - soon, soon. :)

[benytone]

Is that actual weight-map painting?...
Hi
Yes...http://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/midi/frech/a114.gif
A Detail screen...
.
http://home.arcor.de/anim1d/DiSm.jpg
.
http://home.arcor.de/anim1d/ma342.jpghttp://home.arcor.de/anim1d/smo.jpg

.

[chromecity]

exactly. This is to be able to tweak parameters quickly.
Whatever tool I am using at the moment has the main parameters in the HUD.
I have attached a file, v10.1.
You can see what I mean, just open it in C4d (make sure the HUD is turned on).

The popup menu, which is what you mention, is another important workflow inhancer; so is the snap popup.
Just tried this and it seemed pretty interesting. I don't know if I'd get to a point where I felt it was actually annoying to have that stuff in the viewport, but what got me was that it did not survive an Undo operation. I hit Undo once and the HUD popup menu was gone and never came back. Given the number of Undo operations I usually go through, that means the HUD would hardly ever be around. Maybe there's a way to prevent it from disappearing so quickly? (Just got 10.5 yesterday so I haven't dug in yet)...

[moka.studio]

Just tried this and it seemed pretty interesting. I don't know if I'd get to a point where I felt it was actually annoying to have that stuff in the viewport, but what got me was that it did not survive an Undo operation. I hit Undo once and the HUD popup menu was gone and never came back. Given the number of Undo operations I usually go through, that means the HUD would hardly ever be around. Maybe there's a way to prevent it from disappearing so quickly? (Just got 10.5 yesterday so I haven't dug in yet)...

it can clutter the workspace sometimes. I have a script that can toggle the HUD on and off installed in the snap popup, to get rid of all the options in the view window quickly

[expo1000]

still not live on cineversity yet. I'll throw it on my site for now too, just hope my bandwidth can handle that one.

okay its up on cineversity now so here is a link to that to save my bandwidth:
http://www.cineversity.com/tutorials/lesson.asp?tid=955




Btw, nice dwg example, reminds me of why I try to void architecture stuff as much as possible, all those lines give me wanna jump out the 15 story window.


I have problems opening your lessons (firefox crashes and says there is a problem with the quicktime plugin).
The lessons from Dr. Sassi open without problems. Do I have to get a special codec?
Regards,
Simon

[Sneaker]

...
www.kaithestuffguy.com/maxontemp/funwithhud.zip (http://www.kaithestuffguy.com/maxontemp/funwithhud.zip)
....
.

Hi Kai, many thanks for the examples.
I just wondered if it is just me or if others have the same issue when switching
to fullscreen or toggle to all views, that the HUD elements change their position
ending up in the middle of the screen.
Is there a way to have them stick on a relative screen position?

best,
-Michael

[LucentDreams]

I have problems opening your lessons (firefox crashes and says there is a problem with the quicktime plugin).
The lessons from Dr. Sassi open without problems. Do I have to get a special codec?
Regards,
Simon
you need quicktime 7


The problems you mention sneaker are common. They are in fact relative and thats the problem really. they are relative to al four sides of the screen. Sadly this means drastic change in viewport size will shift them dramatically as they are trying to compensate their relationship between all four sides. Best advice I can give is use the F1,F2,F3,f4 commands to change viewports instead of using the 4 screen toggle. You can set things to absolute positions as well, which can help a bit but exteeme scaling likeswitching to four view will still mess it up.

Screen position is definitely the biggest problem with the HUD.

[expo1000]

you need quicktime 7

I have QT 7.2 pro.
strange.

s.

[LucentDreams]

the movies are all h.264 AAC audio

[soccerrprp]

Wanted to ask this when 10.5 first came out, but has the Browser libraries problem been resolved this this edition? As many of you are aware, sometimes, libraries DO NOT show up in the browser even after 'refreshing" or "cleaning the database."

Richard

[Srek]

Unfortunately this problem became known only after the release candidate for 10.5 was finished, so the problem is not resolved with 10.5
Cheers
Björn

[wiremuse]

Are there any discussable plans about any future updates that may improve particle rendering(volumetrics) in Cinema4D right now for me(personally) it is one of the bigger issues keeping me from using C4D for everything. I'm talking something on the quality level of at least Lightwave's Hypervoxels or 3DS Max's Particle Flow. There are some plugins out there I know that try to fill this gap but they still seem to still fall quite short.

[Srek]

Are there any discussable plans about any future updates ....
I'm sorry, but MAXON never gives any information on future development.
Cheers
Björn

[wiremuse]

I'm sorry, but MAXON never gives any information on future development.
Cheers
Björn

Never? That is a good way to alienate customers from a product.

[soccerrprp]

I'm sorry, but MAXON never gives any information on future development.
Cheers
Björn

Sounds like Maxon's way to protect its interests and creative property...I've been using C4D for a few years now (still using R8.5 in our school program) and I have oddly not been perturbed by the "quiet" nature of Maxon's policy of not revealing development. Each time Maxon has come out with a major update/upgrade, they have not disappointed. It seems to me that Maxon listens to its customers/users for the most part and that has led to many satisfied users.

Am I wrong, but I get the sense that more people are beginning to consider Maxon because of its ability to deliver quality additions to its software.

Richard

[knight42]

Never? That is a good way to alienate customers from a product.

What?? The two highest-quality companies I deal with - Apple and Maxon - both have this policy, and they both do okay.

[wiremuse]

What?? The two highest-quality companies I deal with - Apple and Maxon - both have this policy, and they both do okay.

Don't get me wrong I'm not trying to be harsh or overly critical I think Maxon is a great company. I just don't think the "Never" comment is good customer relations it rubbed me the wrong way I supose. I've exchanged some emails with Paul Babb of Maxon USA in the past and came to understand Maxon's policy on keeping things on the quiet. That doesn't change the fact I think "general" promise-free roadmaps of where they /might/ like to take things is good. ^_~

Also since you mentioned it, Apple doesn't have a "never" policy for sure they constantly announce products before they're out and ready to ship.. IPhone is a perfect example of that. Along with OS X updates and its new features they do release some information prior to release date just not "way in advance" they're announced when they're in a presentable state even if prior to ship they just have a much wider margin with that then say Maxon.

[Srek]

Please guys, not another discussion on why MAXON should make their future plans known or not. This has been discussed on this forum ad nauseam in the past.
Cheers
Björn

[todd4cgi]

Sorry, but very FEW companies announce product advancements ahead of time, especially in any detail.

EDIT: I was hoping to view the "new features" videos on Cineversity, but it looks like I have to be a member first. Any chance Maxon will have similar videos on their site?

[LucentDreams]

Also since you mentioned it, Apple doesn't have a "never" policy for sure they constantly announce products before they're out and ready to ship.. IPhone is a perfect example of that. Along with OS X updates and its new features they do release some information prior to release date just not "way in advance" they're announced when they're in a presentable state even if prior to ship they just have a much wider margin with that then say Maxon.
well apples recent moves are a prime example of why maxon doesn't do this, apple announces full 64 bit support and then oh they changed their minds crippling much our industries mac development.

Maxon doesn't announce intentions and plans, because that way there is no breaking promises. As a tester for a few different applications, I often see tools in development that get held off till a later release because of issues here and there. and yet no one complains because they never knew but if they announced intentions to release that, then there would be havoc when they don't deliver.

[LucentDreams]

Sorry, but very FEW companies announce product advancements ahead of time, especially in any detail.

EDIT: I was hoping to view the "new features" videos on Cineversity, but it looks like I have to be a member first. Any chance Maxon will have similar videos on their site?
well you just have to sign up for free membership.

[todd4cgi]

Maxon doesn't announce intentions and plans, because that way there is no breaking promises. As a tester for a few different applications, I often see tools in development that get held off till a later release because of issues here and there. and yet no one complains because they never knew but if they announced intentions to release that, then there would be havoc when they don't deliver.

Excellent - and well-founded - points, LucentDreams. Oh, and thanks for the heads up on Cineversity.

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