visual effects/particles dvd anyone?

[BrandonD]

Hehe, I thought of the same thing Alan, but am just too darned busy. The market would be less than a character oriented DVD, but hey, you never know?

[Massemannen]

That is GREAT news! I find you and Brandon D. to be the "top gun´s" on particles and it´s really great that the both of you have plans of sharing your knowledge!
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Ideas (I´m sure I will come up with some more)

Different kinds of explosions, like fuel, plastic like C4, mushroom like nukes, handgrenades.

Different kinds of bullet impacts. Like concrete, sand

Missiles (of course ;) ) and rockets. There is a difference between Maverick and a rocketpod smoketrail. Also some kind of Spacerocket smoke, like Armaggedon for instance.

Well that´s it for now :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

/Matt
Airborne since -93

[sam]

I think the topic of integrating 3d visual effects with live footage is one that hasn't been really well developed in the instructional material out there and it would be great if you did a lot on that topic.

If you keep the price of the dvd reasonable I will be your first customer.

[Pyro2301]

Well I've watched your particle videos on 3dluvr and for a start you could cover the more complex methods for FX and the scripting that you mention but haven't covered ;). Afterburn and maybe more of the procedural modeling and texturing that you have touched on would be nice too.

Maybe Brandon could toss a few tutorials on Brazil and Reactor eh?

-Victor

[gaggle]

That sounds incredibly cool for what it's worth, special-effects and stuff is not a boring subject at all :)

I have some loose ponderments on the Give a man a fish / Show a man to fish thing, in that it might be cool if such a DVD contained not just "here's how it's done", but also "here are my thoughts on why I think I'll do it this way".

I don't know if you're familar with Paul Steed, lowpoly modeler guy, but there was one place in his book I really enjoyed. Essentially, he did something wrong.. that simple. He explained that, sure, he could've just gone back, redone it, and never mentioned that he started down the wrong path first, thus appearing über-l33t and master of the polys, but I thought it really helped hearing about the thoughtprocess that went on behind the actual polypushing. Teaching the art, instead of the button-pushing?

Thus I theorize it might be interesting to hear your thoughts as you start out on a project, if you do some failed experiments for instance... I've no idea how you work, but let's say you do a quick testrun to see if you can pull it off using, idunno, only planar MAX ordinary particles, then even if it doesn't work, it could still be interesting to hear about?


Specifically on what kind of explosions and such, I think it's less important if it's specifically a "fuel explosion", or "nuclear" or the likes, and more important with the look you want to archieve. If it were real shots you'd have certian requirements from the director, off the top of my head you could get things like concept shots, and descriptions of the "feel" it should convey. It's not that the bomb consists of thirty liters of fuel that interest me, but moreso how you'd go about creating the look and feel and intensity that the shot calls for. ..well I guess that ties into the "thoughts instead of button pushing" mentality provided in the previous paragraphs :)

Anyway, so that's just what I got to thinking of.. mmmmmnot sure I made a whole lot of sense, I'll try and elaborate if things just aren't making sense :)

[amckay]

Thanks for the replies..

Brandon you should, you'd do a hell of a lot better job than me ;) I just want a place to dump my brain as I'm getting less and less max gigs these days that I feel I'm losing touch with the app (for some reason it's easier now to remember every useless mel flag and command than it is to remember just the basic lingo of max script).

Gaggle, yeah a lot of my stuff is more theory based oposed to 'step 1' 'step 2' but it's a good point that if I do run into a problem oposed to making it look flawless, point out a problem and why that might be and solutions/workarounds to it ect. There's actually a lot to cover that I pretty much have to keep things short or else go into volumes of dvd's which I'm not keen on doing as making tutorials/dvd's for a living isn't my cup of tea, I'd just like to at least make something solid that people could learn from :) But I'd definitely try and cover as much as I can on everything I can.

pyro, guess I haven't covered much at all then ? :)


sam yep it would be aimed more at film fx than anything else so a lot of intergrating live action with cg ect.



At this stage I'm just toying with the idea because I can easily put aside a few weeks to make a dvd soon if I want, although it's still interesting to find out what people want to see covered as I'd love to contribute as much as I can even to freebie tutorials on this kind of stuff as it'd be great if everyone shares their techniques oposed to bottles them up.

[BrandonD]

Nah, like I said I really don't see having the time to do it correctly. I'll be posting a bunch of videos on particlefx.com later this year along with some other stuff, but my free time outside of work is very limited and is about to become more limited.

[treed]

Alan, this is awesome that your doing this. I saw all of your tutorials on 3dluvr.com and I learned so much. Yeah, you should make a lot more video tutorials on particles, and other special effects.
:bounce:



treed

[amckay]

G'day Treed, thanks glad you like them. I have a few more that aren't online yet. Problem is now I'm freelancing and bouncing from city to city whereas before I could actually come home at night and put some time aside to do a few of them. Which is why I'm starting to think of taking a solid month off and making a dvd or something.

I recently made one for 3dworld magazine that's nearly an hour in length, although it's aimed at maya unfortunately.
Although I do plan to make some more for 3dluvr in the future as well as standard tutorials, but it's just a matter of balancing work life/social life and tutorial life between eachother :)

But that's why I'm keen to at least see what kind of topics people want to see, as at least that way it'll be a few more to add to my to do list

[treed]

Alan, so this dvd that your making. It's free? :thumbsup:


treed

[RJB]

I would definately be interested in your DVD if it was focused on effects. A section on compositing effects into non-CG shots would be very helpful.

[Pyro2301]

Originally posted by amckay

pyro, guess I haven't covered much at all then ? :)



Hey, don't get me wrong, your tutorials are great. All I'm saying is that I'd like to see more of them.

-Victor

[amckay]

I know I'm just being a smart arse ;) Thanks for the support,
I'd definitely like to contribute more stuff as soon as I can, currently I'm working on two features one day and one night (two different time zones too!) so that's killing all my spare time for the moment. But definitely will try and release more max stuff as often as I can.

anyway if anyone has any cool ideas please drop em in here somewhere.

1) tidal wave
2) person decaying away procedurally
ect. ect.
:)

[Tex3D]

I'd REALLY REALLY REALLY be interested in ANYTHING that would explain how to integrate 3D into live action. I know for some people it seems like a no brainer, but some of us haven't gotten the concept down. I'd DEFINITELY be down for some training in that area:thumbsup:

-Dave

[BrandonD]

Originally posted by Tex3D
I'd REALLY REALLY REALLY be interested in ANYTHING that would explain how to integrate 3D into live action. I know for some people it seems like a no brainer, but some of us haven't gotten the concept down. I'd DEFINITELY be down for some training in that area:thumbsup:

-Dave

Integration is really a thankless job and is more often than not a tricky one. Tracking is the first step, matching the CG camera to the physical camera, not only in transformation but also in lens issues (FOV, apperature, etc). Then there's an even trickier issue when you have to track a CG object onto a real object. For example two characters carrying a stretcher with a CG alien laying on it.

Matting is the next big issue. If your CG elements go behind anything in the plate (ie 2d image) then you've got to create mattes. Sometimes the scene is simple enough that this can be done in the composite by rotoscoping objects out of the scene and into mattes. But when it starts to get complex, then you've got to create holdout geometry in your actual 3d scene. This can also get tricky because you have to match the scale of your scene and build geometry that matches the object you're trying to matte. Another added difficulty is if the object deforms or is animated. The advantage of using holdout geometry is that you can do more with it than just matting. You can use it to cast shadows on to or off of.

I suppose some tutorials would be a good idea, but integration isn't something that can easily be done in a single package and there are a variety of methods and techniques depending on the shot.

[Chaos Maximus]

hey, i think one of the most important things for everyone to learn is how do you figure out how to do something.

i want to learn how to use and manupulate the tools in such a way that i can adapt them to make rain, fire, sand dust ect.

that is the important thing. that we know how to use the tools, what they all do and how to combine them. It will need tutorials, but i would perfer to feel able to do lots more than just the 15 tuts or so.

also, pls make sure weather is there, rain snow rain on a lake , wind , all that stuff.

if you didnt understand a word i said above, ill explain again.

[Tex3D]

Originally posted by BrandonD
I suppose some tutorials would be a good idea, but integration isn't something that can easily be done in a single package and there are a variety of methods and techniques depending on the shot.

I think that it would be nice to have some pro input as to how to do small projects. I know that for Cinema sized projects you'd need a TON of practice and far more resources, but I think a lot of people could benifit from small tutorials on "mundane" things like keying and light rotoscoping as well as simple matting. Basically I guess what I'm asking is akin to standing on the shoulders of giants. Show me how YOU do it, and let me take it from there.

I know it may not seem like a worthwhile effort, but the truth is that some of us WANT to be compositors and be Effects gurus rather than character animation. I'm more interested in making someone else's character model fit into a live action scene.

Since there really isn't ANYTHING out there that doesn't cost an arm and a leg, I'd be happy with any scraps you guys drop from the table:drool:

-Dave

[amckay]

definitely recommend working in tvc's before you work in features as much as I recommend working in games before working in film. You learn how to work faster and plan ahead a lot more. Features are a bit more relaxed deadline wise, although the ambition of the director is usually 10 times more extreme.

The only difference though in film is that you get more time to really explore the 'how' factor (at least for TD's) before you get on board, so oposed to going the rough way that you know will work, you might try a few things to set everything up procedurally. (eg. oposed to hand animating a car, try and work out a way to make it's banking and suspension automated ect).

I recently held a lecture here in Sydney on vfx and one thing I covered fairly indepth from a 3d persons perspective oposed to a compositors was the whole intergration level. That's as far as you really need to go with the subject for 3d people, if you want to get into compositing, learn design and get some good books on the subject. But I definitely will cover it to an extent with rotoing, masking, matte objects, matching perspective and scenes ect. But all of that as an overall process oposed to really spending direct time on the subject.

I've written plenty of tuts that cover this to an extent at least on 3dluvr if anyones interested.

like I said I still haven't had time to comit to whether or not I'd persue the dvd thing, I'm still happy doing all this stuff for free in my spare time (to an extent). Although it wouldn't be like the alias dvd's or anything that's for sure. I know 3dluvr.com is considering compiling all the current video tuts on 3dluvr at their original 1024x768 res onto cd and selling it for like $20, a dvd I'd probably not charge much more than that, like $50 at most or something, who knows.
anyway that kind of stuff is way off :)

Allan

but like I said, gimme some more subjects that you want covered if you can think of some.. (the ever going reminder)

[MayaV]

hi Alan

hoola a training DVD on particle & special fx thats cool man, well as far as some ideas goes how bout some :

1. a meteor faaling in the sea

2. a nuke explosion with extensive amount of heat & radiation coming out

3. a man executing arrow with fire tipped (something liike a video called leela i saw it as a demo of a digimation plugin)

4. a person taking out some melted iron from a vessel full of it

5. a person melting down to fluid something like Terminator 2

6. a water flowing and then falling like a waterfall from a watersource

well this is what i can tell u know, if u would like more ideas i am always available for u :)

regards

Vivek

cant wait for ur DVD's

[amckay]

Cheers! There was a point 2 weeks ago where I was going to take 4 weeks off and at least start on it, although now I'm in LA for 3 months so I have no idea when I'm going to start on it. I'd actually consider doing it now if my laptop could plug into the bloody wall!! :)
But thanks I'll add that into my todo list and start working on the criteria as soon as I get a free moment.

I think Brandon Davis's doing a pflow dvd or something though? (or did I completely misunderstand that)? That'd definitely be worth checking out, I'll surely buy a copy

Anyway thanks again!

Allan

[hugodog]

Mr. Allan McKay and Brandon D are planning to make
DVD on particles????? This is probably best news I've heard in
weeks...


I pretty much agree with Chaos Maximus, It
should emphasize on the tools as well as howtos
and tricks.

If we know more about the tools, we pretty much covers
a lot of ground. But then, more tricks and howto are
always welcome.

As for the topics, I'd like to see lots of water effects,
splashes, object splats. Water flowing, dripping.
Also water effects used for fightings on those
martial arts movies I've seen.

Also cool effects tricks like those teleporters on X2.

Other important factors is how to work with particles
with limited hardware resources. I don't have 1000 render
machines to help me like those big guys...

Basically, I'd like to see more things in more realistic way.
In other words, I know how to do smokes, explosions and
stuffs but it's very hard to do it realistically.

Well salute to Allan McKay and Brandon D.
The world of particles fx would not be the same without
you guys...

Thanks,
Best Regards,

[sireel]

Hey Allan, I would definatly buy your DVD. This is really good news for everyone, not just maxers especially if you would be coving the subject of brings 3d elements and fx into live video. I would definatly pay 20-40 bucks for it.

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