View Full Version : good chrome
been trying to make a good realistic chrome, messed with sla etc... any suggestions?
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Anadin
04-05-2003, 10:50 AM
Couple of places I started was the SLA presets and messing about - in the material manager choose load materials and then navigate to them (should be in the installed folder I think). Also there is some good chrome on deepshade ( http://www.maxon-computer.com/deepshade ).
Thats where I started - turn things on and off to see what they add to it.
It is quite important to have something reflected in materials like chrome or they appear black - put something n the environment channel.
handige_harrie
04-05-2003, 12:13 PM
My settings:
color: white 50%
reflection: white 70%
specular (metal): width 56%, height 200%, falloff -14%, inner width 23%.
To get a more realistic material you might use blurry reflections and/or add a very subtle SLA noise as bump.
handige_harrie
04-05-2003, 01:49 PM
Example:
I just turn off color and turn on reflection and metal specular it wotks for me and it requires very little tweaking.
but handiges settings have are quite good looking so I would have to say there isnt one good answer.
leigh
04-06-2003, 03:10 AM
The trick to chrome is that you need to have a lower diffusion.
Reflective objects have less colour of their own, as what you are seeing is actually a reflection of the colours around them.
The more reflective an object, the lower its diffusion.
I'm not sure if C4D has a seperate diffuse channel (apart from colour, that is), but you can implement this effect by altering the colour to darker shades of grey instead.
A safe method is to simply even out the values - if for instance, your object is 30% reflective, then you should set your diffuse to 70%, or your colour to 70% grey.
Likewise, if your reflection amount is 75%, then your diffuse amount would be only 25%, or your colour would be only 25% grey.
This gives a sharper, deeper reflection, and also prevents that milkiness that results from setting your colour to white when making chrome.
Don't forget to make small imperfections here and there though - perfect looking chrome always looks really CG.
wow thank you all for the excelent tips, i came kinda close with a few on my own but it just seemd to lack something.
thnx again I'm off to chrome my entire model library now...
Good tips from Leigh. This points to the hundred percent rule. That is, diffuse, reflection and transparency together should never total more that 100. For example, if reflection is 90%, then transparency shouldn't be more than 10%, and vis versa. The other key to achieving realistic transparency and reflection is the use of fresnel. Fresnel is the phenomena of things becoming more reflective as the angle of incidence increases. It is essential to make good use of fresnel when rendering metal and water.
AdamT
04-06-2003, 03:53 PM
Originally posted by MJV
This points to the hundred percent rule. That is, diffuse, reflection and transparency together should never total more that 100. For example, if reflection is 90%
Good tip MV--I never heard that before!
ahh yeah fresnel, i do remember that helping a lot
Originally posted by AdamT
Good tip MV--I never heard that before!
That is the theory anyway. Remember that in Cinema, transparency cancels out reflection, it does the work for you, unless you activate the Additive checkbox. Thus, for water, you can place an inverted fresnel in the transparency channel and turn on reflection to 100%. Reflection will only appear where the material isn't transparent. In such a case reflection and transparency will always add up to 100%, with the relative strength of each being dependent on the angle of incidence, so there is no need to use a second fresnel in the reflection channel. If you did check the Additive checkbox in transparency, then you would have to use a second fresnel in Reflection that is the inverse of the transparency fresnel in order to adhere to the 100% rule.
Bl4ck_Eagl3
06-05-2004, 08:44 AM
guyz i know it may sound dumb to some of u...but im a beginner. how do i open .sit files ? :blush: i got C4D 8.5
Ric535
06-05-2004, 12:33 PM
Originally posted by Bl4ck_Eagl3
guyz i know it may sound dumb to some of u...but im a beginner. how do i open .sit files ? :blush: i got C4D 8.5
if your talking about the ones from Deepshade - there shoud be 2 links next to the material - one is the material itself - and the other is a link to the expander which will open the sit files
imashination
06-05-2004, 01:13 PM
http://3dfluff.com/mash/pics/weights.jpg
Reflection 90%
color: 10% grey
Bump: SLA dents, default settings
specular: plastic, full height, 10% width
The most vital ingredient is the surroundings, whether its geometry or an image. HDRI is your friend.
1,000th post, yay.:beer:
AdamT
06-05-2004, 02:27 PM
Originally posted by imashination
http://3dfluff.com/mash/pics/weights.jpg
Reflection 90%
color: 10% grey
Bump: SLA dents, default settings
specular: plastic, full height, 10% width
The most vital ingredient is the surroundings, whether its geometry or an image. HDRI is your friend.
1,000th post, yay.:beer:
That's pretty close to what I use, but I tend to change it up a little every time.
A thousand posts? Rookie! :p
Tugmaster
06-05-2004, 05:27 PM
There are some good Chrome presets and also some nice paint shaders for download at this site.
http://www.isis.de/~cisenburg/SE_MetallEffektLack.html
Originally posted by imashination
http://3dfluff.com/mash/pics/weights.jpg
Reflection 90%
color: 10% grey
Bump: SLA dents, default settings
specular: plastic, full height, 10% width
The most vital ingredient is the surroundings, whether its geometry or an image. HDRI is your friend.
1,000th post, yay.:beer:
Congratulations. I'm getting close myself. :bounce:
About the HDRI. It's nice but I do believe that the reflection should at least make some kind of sense in terms of context. We have an indoor render here with an outdoor reflection. Also, are you not using fresnel at all in your reflection channel?
imashination
06-05-2004, 08:55 PM
Originally posted by MJV
Congratulations. I'm getting close myself. :bounce:
About the HDRI. It's nice but I do believe that the reflection should at least make some kind of sense in terms of context. We have an indoor render here with an outdoor reflection. Also, are you not using fresnel at all in your reflection channel?
1) Not even a hint of fresnel
2) Use indoor hdri images for indoor scenes
Originally posted by imashination
1) Not even a hint of fresnel
2) Use indoor hdri images for indoor scenes
1.) Would be better with fresnel.
2.) Yes, why don't you? :)
imashination
06-06-2004, 01:41 PM
Originally posted by MJV
1.) Would be better with fresnel.
2.) Yes, why don't you? :)
1) Show me something better then
2) It wasn't an indoor scene...
Originally posted by imashination
1) Show me something better then
2) It wasn't an indoor scene...
1) Rereeder with fresnel and you'll see something better.
2) Except for the reflections, it looks like an interior shot, so if that wasn't your intention, something is wrong.
Venkman
06-07-2004, 07:31 PM
.sit files are opened with stuffit expander.
They are similar to .zip files which is more common on the PC. It just compresses the files and makes them smaller for transport purposes (web, disks, etc).
Drag and drop the .sit file onto expander if it doesn't automatically unstuff when you double click it.
Brent Turbo
06-07-2004, 10:29 PM
As far as I can tell, chrome has very little in the way of fresnel behavior. Maybe a 5% difference from 0-degree to 90-degree facing ratios. With a surface that reflective, the only thing that can be that affected by facing angle is the blurriness of the reflection. As the facing angle approaches 90-degrees, there's less blur in the reflections, since the reflection occupies more surface area (2 dimensioinally) per unit square (3 dimensioanlly). Does that make sense? I don't think there's a way to hook that up in Cinema, unfortunately (prove me wrong, because I'd love this!). That's one thing I'm loving about Maya 6, is hooking the reflection blur up to the facing ratio (fresnel), so you get sharp reflections on the edge of a sphere, but totally blurry facing you. Hot stuff.
"As far as I can tell, chrome has very little in the way of fresnel behavior. Maybe a 5% difference from 0-degree to 90-degree facing ratios. "
Well yes that's a good point, but 5% difference can be huge in some cases, so if you're going for realism, you do it, even if it's only a few percent.
"With a surface that reflective, the only thing that can be that affected by facing angle is the blurriness of the reflection. As the facing angle approaches 90-degrees, there's less blur in the reflections, since the reflection occupies more surface area (2 dimensioinally) per unit square (3 dimensioanlly). Does that make sense? I don't think there's a way to hook that up in Cinema, unfortunately (prove me wrong, because I'd love this!). That's one thing I'm loving about Maya 6, is hooking the reflection blur up to the facing ratio (fresnel), so you get sharp reflections on the edge of a sphere, but totally blurry facing you. Hot stuff. "
Another interesting observation/point. Reflection blur in Cinema can really slow some scenes down a lot, but if it's for a still then by all means you might want to make use of it. Tying it to the facing angle is easy. Just use a fusion channel with the non blurred reflection in the bottom slot and the blurred one in the top, then use a fresnel mask.
Brent Turbo
06-08-2004, 05:39 AM
"Reflection blur in Cinema can really slow some scenes down a lot, but if it's for a still then by all means you might want to make use of it. Tying it to the facing angle is easy. Just use a fusion channel with the non blurred reflection in the bottom slot and the blurred one in the top, then use a fresnel mask."
Good tip, MJ. Does that actually change the radius of the blur, or simply fade between blurred, and not blurred? In Maya 6, the reflection blur is stupid fast, as compared to futzing with DGS_materials in Mental Ray for Maya 5. They must've nailed the algorhythm this time. Still, you can pull off about 98% of all the reflection blur you'll ever need in post, and no one will ever know the difference (except CGTalkers, that is!).
edit:speelliing
Originally posted by Brent Turbo
Good tip, MJ. Does that actually change the radius of the blur, or simply fade between blurred, and not blurred?
It would only fade. I can't think of any way to change the radious of the blur offhand.
imashination
06-08-2004, 12:02 PM
Originally posted by MJV
1) Rereeder with fresnel and you'll see something better.
2) Except for the reflections, it looks like an interior shot, so if that wasn't your intention, something is wrong.
1) which way round? more reflection in the middle or more at the edges?
2) It isnt an indoor shot or an outdoor shot, its just an image :)
AdamT
06-08-2004, 12:54 PM
Originally posted by imashination
1) which way round? more reflection in the middle or more at the edges?
At the edges.
BESTrin
06-09-2004, 12:01 AM
ah chrome. I use color brightness 10%. reflection with a fresnel. light gray to pure wite. specular height 100% width 50. It works for me. Oh and leigh thanks for posting as always the texture master. Im gonna try that with the difusion. (and yes cinema 4d has difusion)
sketchbook
06-09-2004, 08:03 AM
Originally posted by imashination
1) which way round? more reflection in the middle or more at the edges?
2) It isnt an indoor shot or an outdoor shot, its just an image :)
you guys are cracking me up :D
belgon
07-28-2005, 07:29 AM
http://3dfluff.com/mash/pics/weights.jpg
Reflection 90%
color: 10% grey
Bump: SLA dents, default settings
specular: plastic, full height, 10% width
The most vital ingredient is the surroundings, whether its geometry or an image. HDRI is your friend.
1,000th post, yay.:beer:
this chrome picture is very nice !
i like it very much !
in my rendered pictures ,the chrome is hard to render like this beautiful!
can anyone tell me ,where i can get this HDRI files useing in this chrome picture!??
thank you !!!
Creature
07-28-2005, 03:26 PM
Here's a Chrome that I made - doesn't look to bad I think.
It's not a HDRI render, just a kitchen image on a sphere
imashination
07-28-2005, 04:13 PM
this chrome picture is very nice !
i like it very much !
in my rendered pictures ,the chrome is hard to render like this beautiful!
can anyone tell me ,where i can get this HDRI files useing in this chrome picture!??
thank you !!!
On your goodies CD
vid2k2
07-28-2005, 08:12 PM
There are some nice recipes for chrome out there
and thank those that have shared. My chrome uses
-no color channel...
-hdri in the Lum channel ... this one bumped to 300%
-reflection ... 50%
-small bump
There are no shadows for this example as there are no lights used...
just wanted to show the chrome:)
R1PPER
07-28-2005, 08:21 PM
Nice image mash...but its still a bunch of weights sat on a reflective purple mat in the middle of a carpark. Perhaps it would have been better if we could see some fat bloke struggling to lift some weights in the local gym...or yourself naked standing there taking the picture....er just ignore me. Anyway i find the easiest way to get a shader is to search cgtalk :)
vid2k2
07-28-2005, 08:24 PM
Image too large ... try again.
R1PPER
07-28-2005, 08:32 PM
vid2k2...that is arguable the worst Chrome image i have ever scene.....ever....even worse than searching for chrome spaceship on turbosquid. Coments fail me at this moment. :(
glorydays
07-28-2005, 08:57 PM
I came up with this after playing around with default chrome shader from deepshade.:)http://picserver.student.utwente.nl/view_image.php/551193MI89W8
glorydays
07-28-2005, 08:58 PM
ripper try not to rip mine as bad as you did vid2k2. :D
nycL45
07-29-2005, 01:46 AM
vid2k2, how did you do that? I'm an architect and have used black (chrome) metal that looks a lot like your finish. Very interested if you are willing to share.
Thanks.
Edit: That black finish is included in a group finish we call "pickled".
belgon
07-29-2005, 02:06 AM
I came up with this after playing around with default chrome shader from deepshade.:)http://picserver.student.utwente.nl/view_image.php/551193MI89W8
very nice !
belgon
07-29-2005, 02:39 AM
On your goodies CD
which one !?
i do not know the HDRI files name ?!
what 's the HDRI picture's name!?
can anyone tell me ????
thank you again !!!
vid2k2
07-29-2005, 02:59 AM
nycL45, thank you for your reply. I see that others don't see what you did;)
But then, it encourages me to find another method.
I'd be happy to share the info with you. I didn't know that I had reproduced
the finish you mentioned.
RobertC
07-29-2005, 06:19 AM
R1PPER:
That is arguably the worst spelling I've ever seen. Comments fail me.
Sbowling
07-29-2005, 06:47 AM
vid2k2...that is arguable the worst Chrome image i have ever scene.....ever....even worse than searching for chrome spaceship on turbosquid. Coments fail me at this moment. :(
Lighten up! That's far from the worst chrome I've ever seen. It's actually got a bit of a neat effect to it. The only real problem I see is that it looks much darker than the environment around it. If you want to see bad chrome you should see some of the old lightwave stuff where people used a fractal noise texture for a reflection map and set the reflectin to 100%. That was some of the worst chrome I've ever seen.
imashination
07-29-2005, 11:47 AM
which one !?
i do not know the HDRI files name ?!
what 's the HDRI picture's name!?
can anyone tell me ????
thank you again !!!
search the disc for "hdri" ? As far as I know theres only like 4 on there.
nycL45
07-29-2005, 12:49 PM
nycL45, thank you for your reply. I see that others don't see what you did;)
But then, it encourages me to find another method.
I'd be happy to share the info with you. I didn't know that I had reproduced
the finish you mentioned.
Looking forward to it, vid2k2.
If it's possible to add transparency to your recipe, your material might look like widely used office building "black" tinted glass.
artemesia66
07-29-2005, 01:18 PM
Tying it to the facing angle is easy. Just use a fusion channel with the non blurred reflection in the bottom slot and the blurred one in the top, then use a fresnel mask.
this sounds like a great tip, but I can't figure out how to make it work. It seems to me like blurring (dispersion) applies to the whole channel. how do you apply different blur settings to layers within a fusion shader?
i know this is an old thread, but i really hope someone can help with this.
vid2k2
07-29-2005, 03:11 PM
nycL45,
Yes, some trans is possible.
email me and I'll send you the file.
You can then experiment a bit.
David
vid2k2
07-29-2005, 04:00 PM
nycL45,
Here's a quick render with a small piece of
black glass showing transparency and reflection.
David
Finster
07-29-2005, 04:28 PM
Nice work with the glass!
R1PPER
07-29-2005, 04:28 PM
I only said it was a crap render because the lighting implies it is buried under a bush. It is actually sat on a chrome tiled floor and should be alot lot brighter...chrome is generally 100% dependent on the HDRI and environment...the fact that someone said WOW nice Black chrome is pure Fluke as thats not what you were trying to achieve. AND WHAT THE HELLS WITH TRANPARENT CHROME THAT FUNDAMENTALLY WRONG.....gaahhhhh :banghead:
nycL45
07-29-2005, 07:51 PM
vid2k2, That glass works. I'm dialing...
belgon
07-30-2005, 01:02 AM
search the disc for "hdri" ? As far as I know theres only like 4 on there.
thank you imashionation !
!!!
i 'll be searching...
swish
07-31-2005, 01:55 AM
Color 10%, Diffusion 90%, Reflection 90%, Specular plastic, width 27%, height 100%, inner width 18%
I like what you guys have been doing, heres my novice attempt
Sbowling
07-31-2005, 02:44 AM
Color 10%, Diffusion 90%, Reflection 90%, Specular plastic, width 27%, height 100%, inner width 18%
I like what you guys have been doing, heres my novice attempt
That looks very nice on the outside, but the inside looks weird. The one spot has a mirror like reflectionthen everything else is black. If you're using HDRI then you shouldn't really have any black in the image, because of teh bounced light.
BTW, does anyone know how to turn off or change the default tree reflection image that shows up when you apply reflections to a material? This really messes things up because it's always on even when using an environment to adjust reflections. Sorry if I'm missing something obvious.
jimzepellin
08-06-2005, 10:35 AM
A pretty reasonable base for chrome, surprisingly is using a Cheen shader. Turn off the roughness option, add reflection an HDRI in the enviroment stick in some highlights then just mess about with the settings. You can even add a bit of roughness back in to get that pitted chrome effect.
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