Factor 5 (Rogue Squadron) Says Great Graphics on Wii is Possible

[inguatu]

heh... the Wii isn't know for it's graphical prowess. I'm curious to see how hard it'll be for them to squeeze out the quality they're talking about, after saying that others aren't trying.

[whimpulse]

well, with Lair getting some backlash from critics, i think it would make sense for Factor 5 to release games on all platforms, especially the Wii, since it's proving to be a great moneymaker for devs.

[kiaran]

Was there ever any doubt that the Wii could perform?

There are superb looking titles on the Gamecube and the Wii is a fair step above that. I do agree however that most developers are shying away from making decent looking Wii games. Too bad really...

[richcz3]

Was there ever any doubt that the Wii could perform?

Is this 20/20 hindsight at work here or simply jest?
I wish I could find the threads of the leaked images of the Wii controler.
Or better reactions that followed the information that the Wii processor was beefed up Game Cube processor.

Virtually all developers were caught flat footed when the Wii was flying off the shelves December 2006. Wiis are still in short supply in Early September 2007. (plenty of 360s and PS3s).

If developers can get better graphics in Wii games more power to them. What is going to be critical is incorporating the unique control system. If they can do that the graphics are the icing on the cake.

[TheBladeRoden]

I just want some Wii games with some anti-aliasing in them, that's all I ask.

[mech7]

From what i heared the Wii is basically a modded N64

[heavyness]

I just want some Wii games with some anti-aliasing in them, that's all I ask.

agreed. the Wii doesn't look so hot on my 56" 1080p hdtv.

BUT, they say the Wii is more powerful them the Xbox 1, and just looks at Resident Evil 4. devs are to busy playing catch up and having to work with the wiimote.

it takes time with any system.


Technical specifications of the Wii...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wii#Technical_specifications

[NME-Se7eN]

heh... the Wii isn't know for it's graphical prowess. I'm curious to see how hard it'll be for them to squeeze out the quality they're talking about, after saying that others aren't trying.

Well, considering their work on Gamecube was once accussed of using NURBs, I don't know. Truthfully, I thought Rogue Leader set a bar which wouldn't be surpassed on that console for years. And of the many things people complain about on Lair, graphics are the main thing holding that console up.

[Neil]

Metroid and RE4 and Zelda all looked great, and they were on the GC. So yes, Wii can have good graphics too.

[switchblade327]

From what i heared the Wii is basically a modded N64

Are you getting hardware specs from user comments on Kotaku or just being inflamatory?

Wii is like a super Gamecube, pretty similar to a last gen xbox. That is about the kind of graphics you should expect from it.

You can do pretty graphics with that kind of power but with the waaaaay more powerful and truly next-gen 360 and ps3 setting the current standard for realism in game graphics, I wouldn't count on the Wii coming close to keeping up. The Wiimote is a fairly abstract control scheme anyway. I think it only helps a Wii game if the graphics are similarly abstract.

[FloydBishop]

I'm sure there can be great looking games on the Wii. Look at the PS2. Compare "God of War II" to any of the launch titles of the PS2, and you'll see what seven years of working with a system can achieve.

While I doubt the Wii will be a major console that is still moving systems and games in seven years, once the developers have more time wth the system, the games will imrpove across the board.

I don;t have any interest in realistic looking games though. I also wish they would make more Mario titles that look less like an LSD trip and play more like the classic games.

[mech7]

Ah that is what i meant Gamecube not N64 :D

Are you getting hardware specs from user comments on Kotaku or just being inflamatory?

Wii is like a super Gamecube, pretty similar to a last gen xbox. That is about the kind of graphics you should expect from it.

You can do pretty graphics with that kind of power but with the waaaaay more powerful and truly next-gen 360 and ps3 setting the current standard for realism in game graphics, I wouldn't count on the Wii coming close to keeping up. The Wiimote is a fairly abstract control scheme anyway. I think it only helps a Wii game if the graphics are similarly abstract.

[Szos]

You guys do realize that the Wii is pushing out graphics that are about 1/6th the resolution of the XB360 and PS3.... at that resolution, the power that the Wii GPU has, is fairly ample (within reason) - reports have stated that it is about the same level as the original XB.

Most consoles get retired right when programmers have found out how to fully exploit their capabilities, so seeing that the Wii is essentially just a hopped-up GameCube, I am not surprised that the Wii would be able to do some fairly impressive graphics... just not up to XB360/PS3 standards, but that's besides the point.

[Emmanuel]

Maybe I am talking bs, but since the wii (as all concoles) would not require a HAL like DirectX, programming the gfx hardware directly and squeezing everything out of it could lead to some really, really great graphics.I just dunno if "modern" coders are into such challenges, because traditionally, OpenGL and DirectX are there to NOT have You to do this and still control all available gfx chipsets.
Factor 5 are one of the rare exceptions, because from their C64, Amiga, SNES and Megadrive/Genesis days, they had the habit to really push the hardware that was available.
They truly know their registers and assembly code :-)
I really doubt that there is more than a handful of studios that know it so well, and Factor 5 is clearly at the top of that very short list.
Nowadays, such skills are hardly needed anymore on PS3 or 360, because the raw cpu power
makes it neglectable.

[windarr]

Bottom line is that nowadays all the systems including last gen are powerful enough to give us some very nice graphics, realistic or otherwise, obviously the PS3 and 360 will outstrip the Wii graphically. But the Wii has enough horsepower to tell a great story, and that's all you really need. Though I wish developers would come to grips with the controller more and stop being so gimmicky. Shaking the controller or swinging the remote around in the form of some letter or whatever to perform a move just seems stupid (unless it's a party game). I like it much better when the motions they create with the controller have some relevance to the game like in Elebits. I think that some games just ultimately won't transfer well to the Wii motion controls in which case I don't think the developer should come up with some wacky control scheme just to make it a "Wii" title (as I heard happend with Mortal Kombat, though I haven't played it yet), or at least throw in regular controls as well that can be used with the Classic controller or Gamecube controller (anybody know if you can use the regular Gamecube controller with any Wii games? Just curious if that's been done yet). It personally bothered me the way you swing your sword in Twilight Princess, why couldn't they give some actual control over the swing?

[Babybell]

(anybody know if you can use the regular Gamecube controller with any Wii games? Just curious if that's been done yet)

Some of the games do. Dragon ball Z does, which is great since trying to do a beat em up with the wii mote is taking some serious getting used to. Come to think of it, thats the only one i can think of off the top of my head.

[Saurus]

It's possible to create good looking game on a Wii, in comparison 360 and PS3, as long as it's the primary development console. It's changing, but early games released on a Wii had been ported from 360/PS3, even from PS2. Companies were caught off guard by the success of Wii sales.

Porting is not a good thing. It is done mostly in the latter part of production where theres little time for optimization and whatnots. A good example are games EA made that could only accomplish 30 FPS on a PS3, yet it had higher FPS on 360-- guess which console these games were developed?

By getting released a year in advance, 360 became the primary choice for developing next gen multi platform games. A reverse that was initially held by PS2.

[heavyness]

anybody know if you can use the regular Gamecube controller with any Wii games? Just curious if that's been done yet). It personally bothered me the way you swing your sword in Twilight Princess, why couldn't they give some actual control over the swing?

some Wii game can use the Gamecube controller. Twilight Princess doesn't. you have to buy the Gamecube versions to use the GC controller.

BUT, the Smash Bros. team not to get rid of your Gamecube controller, you can use it in the new Wii version of Smash Bros.

[monkeybeach]

well, with Lair getting some backlash from critics, i think it would make sense for Factor 5 to release games on all platforms, especially the Wii, since it's proving to be a great moneymaker for devs.

IMO it seems to be proving it can be a great moneymaker for Nintendo. Bar Ubisoft, what third party developer is actually making any substantial money off the Wii?

[davius]

Capcom is, with Its port of RE4. But no one is making money as Big N - as IGN said, Wii "prints money!!1" :D

[windarr]

Babybell: good to hear, it seems to only make sense, since not everyone wants to run out and buy a classic controller and would just assume to use their old gamecube controller.

heavyness: Yeah I figured that out about Twilight Princess and was kind of dissapointed, I wish I had bought the Gamecube version as I hear that they are identical besides the controller schemes. I hadn't heard that Smash Bros. would use the old Gamecube controller, that should be cool then. I assume that they'll also enable use of the classic controller then?

[switchblade327]

It's possible to create good looking game on a Wii, in comparison 360 and PS3, as long as it's the primary development console. It's changing, but early games released on a Wii had been ported from 360/PS3, even from PS2. Companies were caught off guard by the success of Wii sales.


Do you have some examples of ps3/360 games that have been 'ported' the Wii? Many studios have simultaneously released a Wii version of a game but cross-platform is an initial consideration when going into production and everything is designed to be scalable to the weakest console. This is standard with cross-platform games but in cross *GENERATION* development you get next gen games that look like "Gun"/next gen games that look like last gen games.

Which is why the Wii and ps2 versions of 360/ps3 games are usually made out of house by another studio which isn't so much of a port as it is a completely new game that's as close as possible to the next-gen version.

I don't know of a single game that was originally targetted for a true next gen release then was shoved onto the Wii SKU and I think that's because it simply wouldn't work. You'd pretty much have to rebuild it from the ground up.

Ps2 is a different story as they're at least similarly powered and porting ps2 games to Wii is possible and probably a good way for pubs to make a quick buck.

So yes, you can make great looking Wii games because there were great looking games on last gen consoles. But you're not going to see much beyond that level of quality on a Wii and you definitely won't see anything close to what the 360 and ps3 are capable of.

And you'll notice if you look back at the article that Factor 5 makes no such claims; just that Wii games can look better then they do and that devs aren't pushing it hard enough.

[Saurus]

Do you have some examples of ps3/360 games that have been 'ported' the Wii? Many studios have simultaneously released a Wii version of a game but cross-platform is an initial consideration when going into production and everything is designed to be scalable to the weakest console. This is standard with cross-platform games but in cross *GENERATION* development you get next gen games that look like "Gun"/next gen games that look like last gen games.

Which is why the Wii and ps2 versions of 360/ps3 games are usually made out of house by another studio which isn't so much of a port as it is a completely new game that's as close as possible to the next-gen version.

I don't know of a single game that was originally targetted for a true next gen release then was shoved onto the Wii SKU and I think that's because it simply wouldn't work. You'd pretty much have to rebuild it from the ground up.

Ps2 is a different story as they're at least similarly powered and porting ps2 games to Wii is possible and probably a good way for pubs to make a quick buck.

So yes, you can make great looking Wii games because there were great looking games on last gen consoles. But you're not going to see much beyond that level of quality on a Wii and you definitely won't see anything close to what the 360 and ps3 are capable of.

And you'll notice if you look back at the article that Factor 5 makes no such claims; just that Wii games can look better then they do and that devs aren't pushing it hard enough.

There are several games such as N4S Carbon and Call of Duty 3 that were released on 360 and later ported on the Wii...both games were fugly on the Wii. Part of the reason is there were no Wii def kit available. :P You don't need a whole team to port a 360 game to Wii. I don't know about your team, but we had about 5 people (give and take) working on a Wii from a team of 60 mostly working on 360. Only thing we outsource were PSP version which had a total different game play. Man, I remember working for a different company. We worked exclusively PS2 and we had to remove 3 levels of the game to fit Game Cube. Its that crude!

[switchblade327]

There are several games such as N4S Carbon and Call of Duty 3 that were released on 360 and later ported on the Wii. Part of the reason is there were no Wii def kit available. :P You don't need a whole team to port a 360 game to Wii. I don't know about your team, but we had about 5 people (give and take) working on a Wii from a team of 60 mostly working on 360. Only thing we outsource were PSP version which had a total different game play. Man, I remember working for a different company. We worked exclusively PS2 and we had to remove 3 levels of the game to fit Game Cube. Its that crude!

I haven't played COD3 but looking at the screenshots between ps3 and Wii, there's a pretty huge difference, even when the "next gen" version clearly isn't taking advantage of the ps3/360s horsepower. So did any of the artists on those games know they had to build for Wii (I'd expect this to be the case) or did those 4 of those 5 people (assuming 1 programmer minimum) spend the full production cycle down-rezing every art asset in the game? Maybe it'd work to use the next lowest LOD?

[Saurus]

I haven't played COD3 but looking at the screenshots between ps3 and Wii, there's a pretty huge difference, even when the "next gen" version clearly isn't taking advantage of the ps3/360s horsepower. So did any of the artists on those games know they had to build for Wii (I'd expect this to be the case) or did those 4 of those 5 people (assuming 1 programmer minimum) spend the full production cycle down-rezing every art asset in the game? Maybe it'd work to use the next lowest LOD?

Wii wasn't even in the radar in the beginning of the project. We hired mostly programmers (which were considered hot positions...everybody wanted them, but few available at that time) and much later on, we used the same artist re-size textures. Man, I even worked on a project where the game wasn't even made for next gen, but a particular next gen company approached us late in the game development and ask us to port our game to their console (I'm sure money was involved). We re-texture a lot of the textures, but some textures we just up rez from low rez!

[bentllama]

good. i hope F5 does soemthign good with the Wii to make up for that POS Lair

good group of guys with some good games under thier belt. i look forward to seeing what they come up with.

[Neil]

Hey, it looked good atleast!
So that makes them perfect for a candidate for a wii title.

[aaraaf]

Things that intrigue me most between my XBox360 and Wii on my 56" HD (720/1080i) TV is running "last gen" games on these "now gen" systems. Gamecube games look cleaner running through the Wii's component cable setup than XBox (original) games look running through the 360's component cables.

Halo and Halo2 just don't look as crisp as Metroid Prime / Metroid Prime2... not even close. And none of them look as good as Mario Kart or Mario Sunshine running this same way. I have the HDDVD drive for the 360, and it upconverts my standard DVDs, and they look much better than running on a non-upconverting player... I'm intrigued as to wether or not the 360 upconverts its old games or not, or if it uses a different method than the DVD upconverting.

I haven't delved into it, it's just interesting. I also didn't own an original XBox, so there are some games out there to be played, and it's a little interesting that the Gamecube games running on a 480p console look better.

Of course, none of them are as crisp as say Gears of War or Bioshock! :eek: Holy Jamolee!!!

[NME-Se7eN]

From what I've played of Lair, I didn't have too many issues. But I will say this, I work at a legitimate flight sim company where subtle movements make drastic changes and over compensating leads to loss of control. In fact, where I tried it (local gameshop), I was accused of having played it before. They were shocked by my control over the supposedly uncontrollable game. So I pretty much told them to treat it like a flight sim and not Ace Combat and they shouldn't have troubles. What can I say, when you fly in a simulated EC135 over a location I can't talk about, you learn how to play Lair quite easily. I mean, it's no $60 game but from what I played, $40 is worth it. In fact, I have a harder time controlling planes with dual analog than I do Lairs poor controls.

[Venkman]

Things that intrigue me most between my XBox360 and Wii on my 56" HD (720/1080i) TV is running "last gen" games on these "now gen" systems. Gamecube games look cleaner running through the Wii's component cable setup than XBox (original) games look running through the 360's component cables.

Halo and Halo2 just don't look as crisp as Metroid Prime / Metroid Prime2... not even close. And none of them look as good as Mario Kart or Mario Sunshine running this same way. I have the HDDVD drive for the 360, and it upconverts my standard DVDs, and they look much better than running on a non-upconverting player... I'm intrigued as to wether or not the 360 upconverts its old games or not, or if it uses a different method than the DVD upconverting.

I haven't delved into it, it's just interesting. I also didn't own an original XBox, so there are some games out there to be played, and it's a little interesting that the Gamecube games running on a 480p console look better.

Of course, none of them are as crisp as say Gears of War or Bioshock! :eek: Holy Jamolee!!!

Double check your settings and such, my Xbox 1 games look amazing on 360- which upconverts old titles to 720p. I'm running to a 32 inch LCD TV and have no complaints.

It is hard to compete with the masterful art direction and execution of the Metroid Prime series (it is the SOLE reason I want to play the Wii), but as much as I love Mario Kart, I can't agree with you on that one. It may be bright and really fun in multiplayer, but the texture resolution just wasn't there on that title.

Try playing the single player levels of Conker from Xbox 1 on the 360. My God, Rare has amazing artists working for them. It really shines in 720p. Phantom Dust and Ninja Gaiden look great, too.

Back OT: sure the Wii is capable of great graphics (see Metroid Prime 3), but for now many developers are focusing on the mini-game craze that I hope will die down to a more realistic level in the coming months. But we still aren't going to see anything that competes with Lair, Heavenly Sword, UT3, or Mass Effect on the Wii - at least from a technical standpoint.

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